Leinster v Munster Build Up Thread

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That's fightin' talk that is...! no beer??!!

You're not completely wrong though. I don't understand anyone who'd pay for a ticket, or allow their friend / whomever to pay for their ticket, to attend something they don't want to be at. I understand the reluctant wife / girlfriend being "dragged" along the odd time, but they tend to have some interest, however low.

Sat beside an, I think Italian, couple at the Wasps game up in the gods in the Aviva last season and they spent the whole time talking to each other and only looking up when the stadium went quiet for a kick. I don't get it myself.

arsebiscuits1

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Why 2:00 folks?? Seems very early - any particular reason behind 2:00?

Leinster marketing will say it allows for people with families and get home in time for dinner and people can get back to their respective counties for those outside of Dublin.

I can concede that. Evening games are great if your interest is beers followed by beers in town. But this time does work for a lot of people.

More likely what happened though is Sky asked and were accommodated accordingly

Larbre34

thomond2006 wrote: »

The only annoying thing I find about 'casual fans' are those that are in and out to the bar and bathroom throughout the game. Why go?

I wish the Aviva would ban alcohol from the stands. People would arrive to their seats on time and stay there. Croke Park does it and it works. You can last 40 minutes without a drink.

Funnily enough they do for Soccer, though that could be a UEFA thing I dunno. I agree with you though, it should be banned from the stands in Rugby for the reasons you suggest, if people want to get tanked up and test the limits of their bladders they should do it in the back concourse and watch the game on the closed circuit - if I turn up and find my seat is near the end of a row I always know I can expect to be a jack-in-the-box for the whole game.

awec

Beer thing doesn't really bother me tbh. It's usually people going to the toilet and then getting beer on the way back.

I like my pint in my seat.

molloyjh

Liam Lively Ultrasound wrote: »

I really hate this stuff. It's a professional sport and their money is every bit as good as yours.

I don't think there was anything wrong with the comment in light of the discussion about atmosphere at the Aviva. A very real reason for poor atmosphere is the number of people with relatively little interest in the game. Sure there are other factors, like the quality of the game etc, but casual fans do detract from the atmosphere.

Nobody is saying they shouldn't be there, and I think errloyd even mentioned about casual fans becoming more than that over time which is hugely positive. I started out as a casual fan nearly 20 years ago. But to say that it is unfortunate that they impact the overall atmosphere isn't bad, which is all errloyd did in fairness.

errlloyd

Liam Lively Ultrasound wrote: »

There's no comparison between an art gallery or a cinema and a rugby match.

Yes there is. They are an experience where a visitors enjoyment of the experience is influenced by other visitors.

I don't really know what I said that is so controversial. You seem to just want to argue on an internet board.

Do I enjoy a game more if it has a better atmosphere - Yes.
Is the primary influencer of atmosphere other fans - Yes.

Which part do you hate? I am really struggling to get it. Maybe you're saying that atmosphere has no bearing on your enjoyment of a game - is that what you're getting at?

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Yes there is. They are an experience where a visitors enjoyment of the experience is influenced by other visitors.

I don't agree with this, you're paying to watch a rugby match and as long as you get an unimpeded view then that's all you're entitled to.

I don't really know what I said that is so controversial. You seem to just want to argue on an internet board.

Do I enjoy a game more if it has a better atmosphere - Yes.
Is the primary influencer of atmosphere other fans - Yes.

Which part do you hate? I am really struggling to get it. Maybe you're saying that atmosphere has no bearing on your enjoyment of a game - is that what you're getting at?

It's people looking down their nose at 'casual' rugby fans. If that's not what you were intending then fair enough.

molloyjh

Liam Lively Ultrasound wrote: »

I don't agree with this, you're paying to watch a rugby match and as long as you get an unimpeded view then that's all you're entitled to.

I have to completely disagree with this. From a legal and commercial perspective it is technically true, but I'd also like to think people are entitled to be treated with some form of common decency by others. Individuals behaviours affect those around them and as a result people should consider those impacts and behave in a way that doesn't overly impact those around them negatively. I've had people get up to go to the bar and then stop directly in front of me because something is happening on the pitch that got their attention. They are blocking me and others behind me in that scenario. They aren't breaching any contract or terms and conditions on the sale of the ticket. They are being dicks though. And I think I'm entitled to be able to watch the game without that kind of behaviour.

I'm not saying all casual fans are like that at all. I know they aren't. But the general point stands. A stadium isn't a place where you can come and do whatever you like because you've bought a ticket. There's a social contract, for want of a better way of phrasing it, that we all should be buying into as well. Showing consideration for those around you should be the very least we expect of people. This idea that "I've bought a ticket, I can do what I like" is BS.

errlloyd

Liam Lively Ultrasound wrote: »

I don't agree with this, you're paying to watch a rugby match

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this. If seeing the game were the only value offering I would really struggle to justify paying for a worse view over watching on TV.

But I get where you're coming from about looking down the nose. Maybe the phrase 'casual fan' has developed a nasty connotation on here that I didn't intend to align myself with.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

stuff about people going to the bar

.

Liam Lively Ultrasound wrote: »

People getting up and down to go to the bar is a complete pain in the arse and I would prefer if they'd just close the bar while the game is on (edit - or as suggested just stop you bringing your pint back to the stands, but this doesn't stop the problem of people going out to the bar). But that sort of thing isn't limited to the 'casuals', all sorts of people are buying pints at a match.

molloyjh

Liam Lively Ultrasound wrote: »

.

I was using that as an example. It isn't the only one. On the terrace in the RDS there's a group of lads who don't show up early enough to get a spot down the front. Myself and the crowd I go to the games with deliberately do. We have a spot on the terrace that we always go to and always have. We're there early enough so we have it every game. These lads sometimes wait until half time, then they push their way up the front when some of us pop out to the loo or to the bar. And then they spend most of the second half chatting. They are tall blokes so they also block peoples view as well as taking other peoples spots (we have a few shorter people in the group, mainly women).

Technically there is nothing wrong with what they are doing. It's a free standing terrace and there are no reserved sections. Not having an unimpeded view is a very real risk (almost inevitability) on the terrace too. Everyone is behaving as they technically should based on the sale of the tickets. Does that mean those blokes are behaving in a reasonable way? No it doesn't. They are being dicks.

The same can be said for people having drunken conversations right behind you in the Aviva, or people spilling their drink on you etc.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

anti-social terrace behaviour

Cutting out the text so the thread doesn't get clogged up. Yes that is poor form of course, but considering they are STHs it's a bit beside the point of 'casuals' taking away from ones enjoyment of a match. When thousands of people are gathered in one spot a portion of them are inevitably going to act the maggot. I'm a terrace STH too and I've had very little issue ever tbh.

molloyjh

Liam Lively Ultrasound wrote: »

Cutting out the text so the thread doesn't get clogged up. Yes that is poor form of course, but considering they are STHs it's a bit beside the point of 'casuals' taking away from ones enjoyment of a match. When thousands of people are gathered in one spot a portion of them are inevitably going to act the maggot. I'm a terrace STH too and I've had very little issue ever tbh.

I was simply addressing your point that peoples entitlements are limited when in a stadium and that all people are entitled to is a view of the game. While technically true the behaviour of those around you isn't utterly free from comment or complaint and people do have a level of responsibility to others over and above the terms and conditions of the sale of the ticket. That applies to casual fans and STHs alike. Although as an aside I'm not convinced those guys are STHs at all. I've never seen them in a first half before I don't think and rarely see them at all tbh. It's just every now and again they appear out of nowhere.

thomond2006

Munster:
JJ Hanrahan; Andrew Conway, Chris Farrell, Tyler Bleyendaal, Keith Earls; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Robin Copeland, Billy Holland; Peter O’Mahony, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Liam O’Connor, Stephen Archer, Mark Flanagan, Jack O’Donoghue, Duncan Williams, Rory Scannell, Alex Wootton.

Wow a lot to take in there! JJ at 15, Bleyendaal at 12 and no Zebo in the 23.

thomond2006

Leinster Rugby (Leinster caps in brackets):

15. Joey Carbery (26)
14. Adam Byrne (27)
13. Rory O’Loughlin (26)
12. Robbie Henshaw (13)
11. Barry Daly (13)
10. Johnny Sexton (137) CAPTAIN
9. Luke McGrath (78)
1. Jack McGrath (114)
2. James Tracy (46)
3. Tadhg Furlong (68)
4. Devin Toner (201)
5. Scott Fardy (3)
6. Rhys Ruddock (135)
7. Josh van der Flier (50)
8. Jack Conan (55)

16. Sean Cronin (133)
17. Cian Healy (176)
18. Michael Bent (91)
19. Ross Molony (48)
20. Jordi Murphy (89)
21. Jamison Gibson-Park (32)
22. Ross Byrne (28)
23. Fergus McFadden (153)

From a Munster POV I'm happy to see Tracy start and not Cronin. That's a back three that can hopefully be exploited defensively.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

So random question... anyone know of a bar in Kyoto, Japan showing the match?

If it’s still there try The Hill of Tara. It’s fairly central.

I had a great time getting drunk there and desperately failing to chat up the ridiculously attractive bar staff.

irishfan9

No O'Brien...

Surprised but happy enough to see Daly starting ahead of DK and McFadden. Decent enough team on paper, hopefully they show up on the pitch.

Clegg

Daly deserves a start. He has his problems in defence but has been in better form than Dave and McFadden.

That's a very mobile pack we have. Good carriers in each row. Delighted to see Henshaw back. Hope SoB isn't injured already

errlloyd

It's the battle of mercurial tens playing at 15. Shame Madigan isn't around to start at 12 for Leinster.

Winters

The Leinster squad v Munster in numbers:

17/23 Ireland capped players (74%)
18/23 Internationally capped players - added Fardy (78%)
17/23 Players who have only ever played for Leinster (74%)
18/23 Leinster developed players - added Sexton (78%)
20/23 Ireland developed players - added Cronin (87%)

Anyone care to do one for Munster?

FrannoFan

neither starting 15 look capable of topping Europe

FrannoFan

Winters wrote: »

The Leinster squad v Munster in numbers:

17/23 Ireland capped players (74%)
18/23 Internationally capped players - added Fardy (78%)
17/23 Players who have only ever played for Leinster (74%)
18/23 Leinster developed players - added Sexton (78%)
20/23 Ireland developed players - added Cronin (87%)

Anyone care to do one for Munster?

you want to see how many leinster developed players are with Munster

irishfan9

FrannoFan wrote: »

you want to see how many leinster developed players are with Munster

about 25%

4 Leinstermen in Munster 23.
1 Munsterman in Leinster 23.

Winters

FrannoFan wrote: »

you want to see how many leinster developed players are with Munster

Ha! I meant Munster developed players for Munster but thanks for the chuckle.

Erik Shin

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster:
JJ Hanrahan; Andrew Conway, Chris Farrell, Tyler Bleyendaal, Keith Earls; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Robin Copeland, Billy Holland; Peter O’Mahony, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Liam O’Connor, Stephen Archer, Mark Flanagan, Jack O’Donoghue, Duncan Williams, Rory Scannell, Alex Wootton.

Wow a lot to take in there! JJ at 15, Bleyendaal at 12 and no Zebo in the 23.

Tyler playing in the position he was signed

swiwi_

Lot of religious nuts supposed to be attending this game: Munster with the 2nd coming in the starting line-up no less, although I see at FB...the ability to appear at 15 - although the debate was around 10 or 12 - seems indeed miraculous. We wait to see if the crowd are sufficiently fed in fish and loaves or if anyone walks on water. I suppose if Munster win at the Leinster home ground, that might count as supernatural?

Buer

Adam Byrne, Joey Carbery, Barry Daly and Rory O'Loughlin in a back line starting against Munster.

Would have got long odds on that a month ago let alone a year ago.

awec

Fancy Leinster to win this one by more than a score to be honest.

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

The only annoying thing I find about 'casual fans' are those that are in and out to the bar and bathroom throughout the game. Why go?

I wish the Aviva would ban alcohol from the stands. People would arrive to their seats on time and stay there. Croke Park does it and it works. You can last 40 minutes without a drink.

Agree completely and I'm glad to hear others here say this.....I thought it was just me being old and cranky. Leaving the bars open really smacks of the IRFU, or whoever, just wanting to make as much money as possible on the day.

Tickets for the Aviva are not cheap and I have never understood why people will fork out that sort of money to spend a couple of hours discussing their social life or work life or whatever, while drinking rubbish beer - why not just go to the pub????

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leinster Rugby (Leinster caps in brackets):

15. Joey Carbery (26)
14. Adam Byrne (27)
13. Rory O’Loughlin (26)
12. Robbie Henshaw (13)
11. Barry Daly (13)
10. Johnny Sexton (137) CAPTAIN
9. Luke McGrath (78)
1. Jack McGrath (114)
2. James Tracy (46)
3. Tadhg Furlong (68)
4. Devin Toner (201)
5. Scott Fardy (3)
6. Rhys Ruddock (135)
7. Josh van der Flier (50)
8. Jack Conan (55)

16. Sean Cronin (133)
17. Cian Healy (176)
18. Michael Bent (91)
19. Ross Molony (48)
20. Jordi Murphy (89)
21. Jamison Gibson-Park (32)
22. Ross Byrne (28)
23. Fergus McFadden (153)

From a Munster POV I'm happy to see Tracy start and not Cronin. That's a back three that can hopefully be exploited defensively.

No SOB????

I think I would prefer Luke McGrath as captain. Otherwise happy with that team.

bluedex

vienne86 wrote: »

No SOB????

I think I would prefer Luke McGrath as captain. Otherwise happy with that team.

Would definitely prefer Luke as captain. JS is too cranky and it spills over in his dealings with the ref. The cranky traits that are positive as a 10 are negative as a captain.

Edit: also, I honestly never noticed the lack of SOB in the lineup the first time I read it... probably because he hardly ever plays for Leinster!

irishfan9

irishfan9 wrote: »

4 Leinstermen in Munster 23.
1 Munsterman in Leinster 23.

Who is the the 1 munsterman in leinster 23?

Winters

Sean Cronin

Clegg

Toner and Fardy against Copeland and Holland.

That's a bit of a walkover on paper.

irishfan9

3 players in leinster 23 not from leinster academy.
8 players in munster 23 not from munster academy.

vienne86

Plenty of surprises in the Munster team there.....Tyler at 12, JJ at 15, no Zebo......

Neither team is in great form. I fear an error-strewn turgid affair, and I honestly don't know who will win.

thomond2006

Zebo is injured. Controversy over.

Bridge93

Any word why SOB isn't there?

Without Heaslip, Ryan, SOB, Leavy, Ringrose, Reid (?) and RK begins to stretch the squad a bit in areas

irishbucsfan

The Leinster back line will leave a lot of gaps for Munster. They just have to take advantage of them, Edinburgh nearly did.

FrannoFan

This game has fairly lost its bite.

the fact zebo and sob not being used shows how it is now treated by management.

think Franno has it right

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro14/neil-francis-saturdays-derby-has-subplots-but-the-big-story-is-that-these-two-sides-might-not-be-up-to-it-36198617.html

irishbucsfan

FrannoFan wrote: »

This game has fairly lost its bite.

the fact zebo and sob not being used shows how it is now treated by management.

think Franno has it right

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro14/neil-francis-saturdays-derby-has-subplots-but-the-big-story-is-that-these-two-sides-might-not-be-up-to-it-36198617.html

The fact Zebo and SOB not being used shows they're not 100% fit.

arsebiscuits1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The Leinster back line will leave a lot of gaps for Munster. They just have to take advantage of them, Edinburgh nearly did.

Hopefully not.

The big issues I saw when watching back was ROL at 13. Obviously he is still there but Henshaw makes the difference.

A line break came from a ROL missed tackle, but he missed it because of shoddy positioning because he hesitated when it looked like Reid would have to make the tackle inside him.

The got success out wide because ROL bit in on a tackle Reid was gonna make.

Simply put, ROL didn't trust Reid, and he isn't the best tackler as it is.

With Robbie inside him, he should have significantly more trust and get himself into position sooner without that seconds hesitation

The Rape of Lucretia

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The Leinster back line will leave a lot of gaps for Munster. They just have to take advantage of them, Edinburgh nearly did.

True, but you have to presume Leinster will score more than enough to counter that. Amazed The McFaddenator has been left out for that very reason though.

tototoe

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

The McFaddenator

Lolz..seriously does anyone call him that?

errlloyd

SOB injured, stamp on Calf. Not considered.

durthacht

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leinster Rugby (Leinster caps in brackets):

15. Joey Carbery (26)
14. Adam Byrne (27)
13. Rory O’Loughlin (26)
12. Robbie Henshaw (13)
11. Barry Daly (13)
10. Johnny Sexton (137) CAPTAIN
9. Luke McGrath (78)
1. Jack McGrath (114)
2. James Tracy (46)
3. Tadhg Furlong (68)
4. Devin Toner (201)
5. Scott Fardy (3)
6. Rhys Ruddock (135)
7. Josh van der Flier (50)
8. Jack Conan (55)

16. Sean Cronin (133)
17. Cian Healy (176)
18. Michael Bent (91)
19. Ross Molony (48)
20. Jordi Murphy (89)
21. Jamison Gibson-Park (32)
22. Ross Byrne (28)
23. Fergus McFadden (153)

From a Munster POV I'm happy to see Tracy start and not Cronin. That's a back three that can hopefully be exploited defensively.

Fair play to Irishfan9 who correctly predicted the backs.

Clegg

errlloyd wrote: »

SOB injured, stamp on Calf. Not considered.

First game back will be the league fixture before the 6 Nations no doubt.

Former Former

FrannoFan wrote: »

This game has fairly lost its bite.

the fact zebo and sob not being used shows how it is now treated by management.

think Franno has it right

Your username notwithstanding, did typing the bolded bit not give you pause for thought that you might be horribly, ridiculously wrong?

irishfan9

durthacht wrote: »

Fair play to Irishfan9 who correctly predicted the backs.

only selection that made sense.