M50- Car Park

mel123

Anyone who travels the M50 on a regular basis will know what a car park it is.
This has a knock on effect on all other motor ways.....M1, Nass Road, etc etc.

Whats the solution? Is there one?
Its actually breaking my heart every single morning sitting in the car and it taking 3 times what it would take during the summer months.

Yesterday the AA said it was just carnage, and there was no reason, only volume.

me_irl

*opens can of worms*

4 lanes.

GhostyMcGhost

me_irl wrote: »

*opens can of worms*

4 lanes.

Unless we all start driving smart cars and minis then there's no room for a 4th lane

The councils decided to stay low rise especially within dublin, therefore the inevitable urban sprawl happened... public transport remains not only dublin focused but city centre in particular

Hence, here we are. Too many commuters

minikin

Tunnel the length of it, with an evil knieval jump over the Liffey valley

markpb

Decent public transport.

irelandrover

I think a monorail would probably help.

BillyBobBS

Encourage use of public transport and motorbikes/scooters etc.. for example i only realised recently that Ireland is the only country in the EU that's charges VAT on motorcycle safety equipment (helmets, padded gear etc..) Also why haven't we a school bus system akin to what you'd see in the US. We need logical solutions and imo politicians aren't capable of logical thinking.

mel123

me_irl wrote: »

*opens can of worms*

4 lanes.

I know, but its a genuine question. Like what can be done?
I don't think its possible for four lanes? Nearly sure i read an article and the roads authority or whoever it is, said its not actually possible.

I ponder over it every bloody morning. I was thinking about the 9-5 crowd (im one), what about changing these to 8-4 - like in an ideal world?

hytrogen

Ease the centric view to construct offices and employment around Dublin?
And ease planning regs on accomodation height limits.
And more cross city public transport links hubbed from m50 park and rides

minikin

Decentralise the civil service 😀

neris

irelandrover wrote: »

I think a monorail would probably help.

bennyineire

Another day another thread moaning about the M50

hytrogen

mel123 wrote:

I ponder over it every bloody morning. I was thinking about the 9-5 crowd (im one), what about changing these to 8-4 - like in an ideal world?

Or introduce seven day working schedule. Why must the Sabbath day be a Sunday anymore. I work seven days roster and find I'm more productive with less people in the office and I get to the bank, shops etc during the week when there's not the same numptys clogging up the aisles with their beats at 5.30 deciding if they want koka noodles or store brand for a half hour!

whippet

the M50 is over capacity and has no real scope for increasing capacity.

When you can't increase capacity you need to reduce demand .. same as anything in life really.

I have changed my commute totally in reaction to the M50 and congestion - I travel the M1 and across to tallaght. I used to leave mad early to avoid the rush hour .. 6:30am .. but now even hitting the M50 at 7am will give anything up to an hour to get to Tallaght.

So now twice a week I work from the home office from about 7:30am to 9:00am and drop the kids to school and get to the M50 for about 9:45 and in the office just after 10. I'd stay at home at least one other day during the week.

When I do battle the congestion in the morning i'll leave the office at about half three so at least I miss the nonsense on the way home.

I appreciate that not everyone has as flexible working conditions as I have .. but if those who do start forgetting about the rigid 9am in the office start the demand on the motorway will even out over 4 hours in the morning making it somewhat more bearable.

As for infrastructure ... an outer orbital from Dundalk to Bray is needed .. but that would be a pipe dream

hytrogen

minikin wrote:

Decentralise the civil service 😀

Decentralise Starbucks from Brayruit

Caliden

me_irl wrote: »

*opens can of worms*

4 lanes.

IF it was possible, imagine the impact on traffic during construction and by the time it would open traffic would fill the available space.

Decent public transport is the real solution but getting a motorbike is a more realistic one.

miece16

move the IT sector out of dublin. Honestly in this day and age there's no need to have all the IT sector jobs spring up in Dublin. All that is needed is a building/electricity and internet connection. Many towns can support outside Dublin can be used to set up, such as Carlow, Kilkenny, Tipperary etc. This obsession to set up in Dublin just confuses me.

mcgovern

miece16 wrote: »

move the IT sector out of dublin. Honestly in this day and age there's no need to have all the IT sector jobs spring up in Dublin. All that is needed is a building/electricity and internet connection. Many towns can support outside Dublin can be used to set up, such as Carlow, Kilkenny, Tipperary etc. This obsession to set up in Dublin just confuses me.

You are forgetting one important factor - staff.
People do not want to move from Madrid etc to live in Carlow.

oal22

I spent 2 years commuting on the M50 and it has gotten progressively worse over time. Morning rush hour now extends from 6.30 am to 9.30am and in the evenings congestion starts from before 4 pm.

I can understand people getting sick of listening to M50 complaints but unless you are stuck in that rat race, you can't understand the detrimental effect it can have on a persons mental and physical health. The same goes for anyone stuck in the bottle neck congested roadways outside of Dublin as well.

I switched my working hours to 8-4 in the hope that it would ease the situation but it seems that this has become the norm and the traffic at 6.30 is not much better than at 8. Despite leaving at 6.30 am I was STILL late for work most days and worried about losing my job. I was spending 4-5 hours a day in the car, 5 days a week. I was physically fatigued from sitting at a desk all day and then at the wheel. I have back and shoulder problems as a results. I know many will say that a good walk in the evening would go a long way to alleviate these issues, but when you have to get up at 5.30am, drive for 2 + hours, do your 8/9 hours work, drive for 2+ hours home, make dinner and get kids sorted, there NO time or energy left over for anything else. Weekends are spent in a haze of trying to catch up on cleaning, laundry, food shopping and all the normal boring domestic stuff that you dont have time or energy for during the week. its a never ending cycle and your life revolves around constantly been stressed out about being late for work, guilt over getting your children up and out the door so early (if you have a family), panic and stress over childcare arrangements if an incident on the M50 brings traffic to a standstill and your creche is close to closing time. oh...and lets not forget that depending on your route, you are paying a minimum of €4.20 per day (approx €1000 per year) for the privilege of inching your way along the M50.

Its very easy for people to say, just use public transport. That is not always possible and I'm sure if there was suitable transport in place, many would chose to use it. For me, it was never an option. This is definitely an area that need MASSIVE improvement

when planning new roads and related infrastructures, how do they plan it? Do they just look at where the bottlenecks are and reroute them, or do they question the people stuck on the roads as to where they are going and why they need to use that particular route?
I ask because if you look at the new M17/M18 in Galway, they claimed this would take the traffic off the N17 by creating a bypass. The motorway opened last week, but there is little difference to those sitting bumper to bumper in Claregalway.

Middle Man

mcgovern wrote: »

You are forgetting one important factor - staff.
People do not want to move from Madrid etc to live in Carlow.

In the internet age, why should it make any difference what town you're working in once there's a motorway and rail link nearby???

Ronan|Raven

I started having to use I again after 9 blissful months of living away from it.

The increase in volume is phenomenal.

NinjaTruncs

Middle Man wrote: »

In the internet age, why should it make any difference what town you're working in once there's a motorway and rail link nearby???

From a work point of view it would make no difference, from a personal point of view very few want to live in the countryside, so even if the jobs were remote and moved down the country, you would still find a lot, maybe even most, workers would still want to live in Dublin.

Skrynesaver

Live in Meath, work in Sth Dublin, working 8->4, had to be out of the house @6:15 once school was back, got myself a bike, park up outside the M-50, cycle across town, roughly the same time to get home (apart from the 1 day a week when some idiot does something stupid and the whole thing is at a standstill) but far less tired than when doing the 2nd gear shuffle for 40 minutes on the M-50.

Pete_Cavan

Variable speed limits enforced by average speed cameras would help with throughput. Proper enforcement of the rules of the road would also help and reduce the number of collisions. Volume is not the only issue, the way certain people drive is a serious contributor to the problems on the M50.

Additional toll points could also discourage some short journeys.

MayoSalmon

miece16 wrote: »

move the IT sector out of dublin. Honestly in this day and age there's no need to have all the IT sector jobs spring up in Dublin. All that is needed is a building/electricity and internet connection. Many towns can support outside Dublin can be used to set up, such as Carlow, Kilkenny, Tipperary etc. This obsession to set up in Dublin just confuses me.

Multi nationals don't want to be in Carlow I am afraid.

Cork, Galway provide suitable alternatives but certainly not midland towns like Carlow and Tipp.

Dravokivich

I've only been using it the last 2 months. The slow downs all occur where traffic merges in. The junctions are not suitable to peak traffic.

I don't think variable speed limits are needed as for the most part people seem to be able to manage it. You only get the odd nutter weaving through.

Middle Man

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

From a work point of view it would make no difference, from a personal point of view very few want to live in the countryside, so even if the jobs were remote and moved down the country, you would still find a lot, maybe even most, workers would still want to live in Dublin.

But why? At this stage, we should be building new cities, on existing rail lines and close to motorways, to accommodate the extra population.

Claude Wilton

markpb wrote: »

Decent public transport.

The only solution that parts of Official Ireland have obstructed down through the years.

The on/off sagas of Metro North and the Navan Railway, to name only two projects out of the many proposed since the mid-1970s, should be an object lesson to study in how NOT to solve congestion issues.

The chaos of BÉ's implementation of the NTA's ballyhooed intensive bus service on the M3 corridor would encourage me to sell up from Navan, if I lived there.

As an aside, has anyone asked Noel Dempsey about his notorious "Dempsey Delivers" posters about the Navan railway lately? :pac:

Claude Wilton

Middle Man wrote: »

But why? At this stage, we should be building new cities, on existing rail lines and close to motorways, to accommodate the extra population.

Well if many have their way, we'll have less railways to do that with. You would think that greater urban densities in our existing towns in the hinterland of the cities would be happening, and that Official Ireland would be planning for an expansion of such towns. They aren't.

Idbatterim

the m50 upgrade was a joke, should have made tallaght free flow and also added another lane to get off at junction red cow and lucan... at the very least...

Kermit.de.frog

Why have they not implemented intelligent traffic management system?

The gantries have spaces for the lane signs.

Like in UK.

mel123

Idbatterim wrote: »

the m50 upgrade was a joke, should have made tallaght free flow and also added another lane to get off at junction red cow and lucan... at the very least...

It actually baffles me, even at the last upgrade, was there no forecasting for future traffic going forward? Its so typically Irish.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why have they not implemented intelligent traffic management system?

The gantries have spaces for the lane signs.

Like in UK.

Enforcement would be an issue unfortunately.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

Enforcement would be an issue unfortunately.

Why did they put up the gantries then?

Freindly

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Encourage use of public transport and motorbikes/scooters etc.. for example i only realised recently that Ireland is the only country in the EU that's charges VAT on motorcycle safety equipment (helmets, padded gear etc..) Also why haven't we a school bus system akin to what you'd see in the US. We need logical solutions and imo politicians aren't capable of logical thinking.

Ireland's the only EU nation that makes learning to ride a motorcycle cost prohibitive. All the up front fees just turn people off.

I'd happily ride a bike or moped. It just costs too much to get stated if you already own and operate car.

I think the potential for getting young people out of cars and onto bikes is huge but there is zero political will to. The system seems set up so that only bike enthusiasts actually get licences anymore.

So I sit in my single occupancy car, taking up a quarter of the road space of a double decker bus.

I learned to drive a hatchback. Im qualified to drive a big 4 x 4 towing a small trailer to a tractor. But nipping about standstill traffic on a moped is just too dangerous.

IMHO full licence Car drivers should get a small bike entitlement after 2 years.

BrianBoru00

mcgovern wrote: »

You are forgetting one important factor - staff.
People do not want to move from Madrid etc to live in Carlow.

miece16 wrote: »

move the IT sector out of dublin. Honestly in this day and age there's no need to have all the IT sector jobs spring up in Dublin. All that is needed is a building/electricity and internet connection. Many towns can support outside Dublin can be used to set up, such as Carlow, Kilkenny, Tipperary etc. This obsession to set up in Dublin just confuses me.

It drives me nuts when I hear all this ****e about "best international practice" and national plans.
In Dublin in particular we have
1. Homeless problem
2. traffic problem
3. Public transport limitations
4. Lack of Office space

In the country we have
1. De population and over supply of houses
2. small villages and towns shutting down due to lack of population from lack of jobs
3. Very little traffic


Building houses in Dublin is not THE solution to the homeless crisis


IT companies can't be told where to move
BUT

Why wasn't the headquarters for Irish water moved to Clonmel or Carrick on Shannon or Tuam or Claremorris or Carlow or Enniscorthy or Mallow or Athlone or Ballinasloe.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irish-water-extended-hq-lease-by-10-years-in-16m-deal-just-days-after-general-election-398586.html

I'm familiar with Carrick on Shannon and know that the MBNA building is well equipped and in ready to go condition. That would take 100 staff out of Dublin - 100 less cars commuting . At a guesstimate 150-200 children out of schools in Dublin / commuter counties.

The result for Carrick on Shannon a town of 3500 would be more traffic but a huge boost to it and surrounding areas. Say half of the employees settled in Carrick itself and the other half within rural homes or smaller villages. That's existing schools growing and a boost to small shops and villages in Leitrim, south cavan, north Longford, north Roscommon.
Its a win win.

Now do that to 10 towns nationwide of similar profile.

In every one of those towns is a former convent or workhouse or "Big house" or office block or hospital going into disrepair. In many cases costing money for security and or upkeep before in 40 years time they are demolished.
Refurbish them using local workers. Yes in some cases they'll cost more than building on a greenfield site - but maybe some legislation needs to change or exemptions to enable these buildings to be used.

AND BEFORE someone comes in with "The civil servants didn't want to move" . . So what - loads of them did and as the cost of living increases the civil service salary is going less and less distance.

Get rid of this "Dubs" V "Rural Ireland" bull****.
This is the kind of thing that people in "Rural Ireland " want. A man in Abbeyshrule doesn't need Google to build a new office in the village but he would like options of working in somewhere that's not Dublin. But by having more employment options in Longford / Mullingar or Athlone those towns grow at a manageable rate and pressure is taken of Dublin

whippet

Wasn’t decentralization tried over a decade ago and with the strenght of the public service unions it all went pear shaped.

Dublin isn’t a big city with too many people living in it ... it’s just an average city destroyed by planners

MayoSalmon

Nothing will be done until maybe 2030 at the earliest when they will built an Eastern Orbital

yer man!

Best short term solution that I have been able to think of is the removal of height restrictions in more city centre locations. Allow people live near to where they work and you'll be taking cars off the road.

sea12

oal22 wrote: »

I spent 2 years commuting on the M50 and it has gotten progressively worse over time. Morning rush hour now extends from 6.30 am to 9.30am and in the evenings congestion starts from before 4 pm.

I can understand people getting sick of listening to M50 complaints but unless you are stuck in that rat race, you can't understand the detrimental effect it can have on a persons mental and physical health. The same goes for anyone stuck in the bottle neck congested roadways outside of Dublin as well.

I switched my working hours to 8-4 in the hope that it would ease the situation but it seems that this has become the norm and the traffic at 6.30 is not much better than at 8. Despite leaving at 6.30 am I was STILL late for work most days and worried about losing my job. I was spending 4-5 hours a day in the car, 5 days a week. I was physically fatigued from sitting at a desk all day and then at the wheel. I have back and shoulder problems as a results. I know many will say that a good walk in the evening would go a long way to alleviate these issues, but when you have to get up at 5.30am, drive for 2 + hours, do your 8/9 hours work, drive for 2+ hours home, make dinner and get kids sorted, there NO time or energy left over for anything else. Weekends are spent in a haze of trying to catch up on cleaning, laundry, food shopping and all the normal boring domestic stuff that you dont have time or energy for during the week. its a never ending cycle and your life revolves around constantly been stressed out about being late for work, guilt over getting your children up and out the door so early (if you have a family), panic and stress over childcare arrangements if an incident on the M50 brings traffic to a standstill and your creche is close to closing time. oh...and lets not forget that depending on your route, you are paying a minimum of €4.20 per day (approx €1000 per year) for the privilege of inching your way along the M50.

Its very easy for people to say, just use public transport. That is not always possible and I'm sure if there was suitable transport in place, many would chose to use it. For me, it was never an option. This is definitely an area that need MASSIVE improvement

when planning new roads and related infrastructures, how do they plan it? Do they just look at where the bottlenecks are and reroute them, or do they question the people stuck on the roads as to where they are going and why they need to use that particular route?
I ask because if you look at the new M17/M18 in Galway, they claimed this would take the traffic off the N17 by creating a bypass. The motorway opened last week, but there is little difference to those sitting bumper to bumper in Claregalway.

Can totally relate to this. Constantly being on the clock. Getting up at 5.45 and still being late into the office for 8 clock start. Leaving at 4.30 to face another 2 hours of traffic and getting looks from the boss that ure leaving early. Getting stuck in traffic, wife ringing where are u, your late to collect kids, drop kids off etc. Seriously unless someone actually does the commute they can't understand the impact it has on your health and mental health.

Not having a progressive work place environment or boss really doesn't help. Used to have that with a previous job and the difference it makes is incredible.

Middle Man

sea12 wrote: »

Can totally relate to this. Constantly being on the clock. Getting up at 5.45 and still being late into the office for 8 clock start. Leaving at 4.30 to face another 2 hours of traffic and getting looks from the boss that ure leaving early. Getting stuck in traffic, wife ringing where are u, your late to collect kids, drop kids off etc. Seriously unless someone actually does the commute they can't understand the impact it has on your health and mental health.

Not having a progressive work place environment or boss really doesn't help. Used to have that with a previous job and the difference it makes is incredible.

Really, how Ireland is getting away with this tripe is beyond me. If there was a real free market global economy, I reckon Ireland would be dead in the water. Simply, no-one would want to work here as life is simply too difficult and costly - also, good honest work is rarely rewarded. We as a nation are only where we are economically, because of the USA's assistance - it's nothing to do with being competitive. With an over-rated and artificially inflated property system, we're actually anti-competitive - then there's 'The Field' mentality and today it's alive and well with proceedings being launched against the extended planning permission for Dublin's North Runway.

AugustusMinimus

Middle Man wrote: »

sea12 wrote: »

Can totally relate to this. Constantly being on the clock. Getting up at 5.45 and still being late into the office for 8 clock start. Leaving at 4.30 to face another 2 hours of traffic and getting looks from the boss that ure leaving early. Getting stuck in traffic, wife ringing where are u, your late to collect kids, drop kids off etc. Seriously unless someone actually does the commute they can't understand the impact it has on your health and mental health.

Not having a progressive work place environment or boss really doesn't help. Used to have that with a previous job and the difference it makes is incredible.

Really, how Ireland is getting away with this tripe is beyond me. If there was a real free market global economy, I reckon Ireland would be dead in the water. Simply, no-one would want to work here as life is simply too difficult and costly - also, good honest work is rarely rewarded. We as a nation are only where we are economically, because of the USA's assistance - it's nothing to do with being competitive. With an over-rated and artificially inflated property system, we're actually anti-competitive - then there's 'The Field' mentality and today it's alive and well with proceedings being launched against the extended planning permission for Dublin's North Runway.

We’re about the same as any other country in my experience. People just like to moan here, a lot.

If you want red tape, try living in Southern Europe.

nilescraneo

Proper public transport and road design. The merge from M50 southbound onto the naas road at the red cow is ridiculous, absolutely no consideration was given to busses during the expensive 'upgrade'. Jam packed busses have to wait for majority single occupant vehicles to merge onto the Naas Road before they can access the short stretch of bus lane before it disappears altogether at Woodies. It's infuriating.

Peanut2011

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Volume is not the only issue, the way certain people drive is a serious contributor to the problems on the M50.

Additional toll points could also discourage some short journeys.

The number of people who go on the off ramp just to get on straight away and avoid the standstill would seriously reduce if that was brought it.

They also cause such backlogs for traffic looking to get off the m50 as well as looking to get on.... or the ones that ignore the queue on the off ramp and when they can't merge stop in the middle lane... mind boggles when I see some of the driving types.

Ginger83

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

From a work point of view it would make no difference, from a personal point of view very few want to live in the countryside, so even if the jobs were remote and moved down the country, you would still find a lot, maybe even most, workers would still want to live in Dublin.

I can't understand why, the peace of countryside living is bliss compared to noisy towns/cities, housing estates, blocks of flats, traffic, rat race etc.

khaldrogo

irelandrover wrote:

I think a monorail would probably help.

Say it again.....

khaldrogo

Build up......put another one above it and make that one only have 8 exit points from M1 to bray. That way the people who don't have an exit close to them stay on the lower one and the people who travel a good part of it without exiting use the top.

Elmer Blooker

markpb wrote: »

Decent public transport.

No funds are ever available for public transport but no shortage for getting more and more cars on to the roads - the "upgrades" to the M50 and Newlands Cross ... about €2 billion but what the hell, the tolls and the taxes for the govt are rolling in so who cares if the city grinds to a halt - shure we'll be grand!
I was in Lisbon recently and the public transport system there puts this country to shame. That country was a bankrupt military dictatorship up to the 70s and didn't join the EU until 1992, a full 20 years after we did!

slavetothegrind

the important thing is people going to hairdressers cannot get a free glass of wine. Jeez you folks and priorities......

Middle Man

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

No funds are ever available for public transport but no shortage for getting more and more cars on to the roads - the "upgrades" to the M50 and Newlands Cross ... about €2 billion but what the hell, the tolls and the taxes for the govt are rolling in so who cares if the city grinds to a halt - shure we'll be grand!
I was in Lisbon recently and the public transport system there puts this country to shame. That country was a bankrupt military dictatorship up to the 70s and didn't join the EU until 1992, a full 20 years after we did!

The DART Inter-connector would IMO make such a difference to Dublin - the lines in from Newbridge, Maynooth and Balbriggan should all be electrified and huge P+R sites developed alongside.

evosteo

An outer ring road to the m50. Say starting from swords/ balbriggan and curving right around to greystones. Call it the m500. Or complete the orbital route of the m50 across dublin bay. Nothing will change though as the countrys broke and politicians dont have to drive the comute so dont really care. The country requires multi billion euro investment into its infrastructure but the money isnt there.