Abortion dilemma re pills

_KellyCP_

Hi,

Really sorry to have this post this here. Just so desperate and alone.

I feel I'm going to get in trouble for having abortion here.
It's a long story. Became pregnant totally unplanned with someone I was not with. I couldn't keep the pregnancy. I was going to have no support. It was a very difficult choice to make. Was heartbroken.

Anyway, ordered abortion pills, obviously illegally. Abortion was successful. A few weeks later my social media and phone was hacked and messages that were sent privately were used in a totally threatening manner and passed to family and friends.
Later learned I knew the person, very loosely.

I went to the guards and was dealing with a very kind young guard. I lied though, I said it was a pregnancy scare. Not a pregnancy ended at 9 weeks

Went back a few days ago as threats became worse, the guard I was dealing with wasn't there. Had to speak to a more senior guard who was very harsh.

I was in a bad way and let slip it about medication and abortion and was immediately told I would be investigated and that I broke the law by lying on police statement and ordering banned pills that should have been confiscated as banned in the state if the mothers life isn't at risk.

I am terrified with all that's currently going on surrounding abortion I will be made an example of.

I feel I can't pursue the stalking issue now either as petrified over abortion. It's so unfair and not sure who I can turn to anymore. At least here it's anonymous.

Does anyone know if you can actually be prosecuted for carrying out abortion in Ireland. I should have just went out of the jurisdiction 😔

Thanks so much in advance

leggo

There will be better people than I who are more qualified to handle the abortion stuff.

In terms of your anxiety about being made an example of, put that out of your mind. It doesn't take away the legal aspect, but you're talking more politically around all the abortion debate. When that political element comes into cases, it tends more in the other direction as no Garda wants to dice with a legal grey area that could end up causing a very public backlash and leave them at the centre of it. I'm not saying that this case will disappear, I can't guarantee that, but as far as that element specifically it works more in your favour than against you. And you won't specifically be made an example of.

Seek legal advice on all of this from a solicitor immediately. If you can't afford one (which is ideal if you or your family have one you've worked and had success with before), make an appointment with the Free Legal Aid Centre. Don't say anything more to the Gardaí before you do this, even if you get brought in for questioning you are under no obligation to open your mouth. A solicitor will be best served to advise you on how to proceed with both defending this and pursuing the stalking claim.

In terms of the stalker, tell them that you have been in touch with the Gardaí and they will be dealing with it if the behaviour persists. They don't need to know the rest and maybe that'll get them to back down.

I'm sorry you're going through all of this OP. I really hope that, if this thread stays open, people who might have negative opinions on your choice show some empathy given all you're going through and keep their opinions on abortion to themselves. If you're thinking of saying something, it doesn't help now and you're just kicking a person while they're down.

DoctorBoo

Hi OP. Really really sorry all this awful stuff is happening to you.
You need to get some support re dealing with the guards on the abortion pill issue. There are organisations like the Irish Family Planning Association who might be able to help you out. There's also an organisation called Lawyers For Choice who specialise in this area of law. Google them or contact them on Twitter.
Don't try to take on all this on your own. You need help.

DoctorBoo

Also - don't mind what anybody else says. You made the right decision for you at this moment in time.

dudara

You need professional legal advice OP. The Garda was way out of order and should have dealt with your reports of harassment. A good solicitor will know exactly what to do here.

Good luck

justfillmein

can a mod tell me if it is aloud to recommend a facebook group to op??

eviltwin

That is just horrific OP and I'm so angry you've had to deal with this. I don't know legally where you stand but I imagine you will be okay. So many pills have been seized by customs and to date no one in the south has been prosecuted. I think it's no harm to check with Abortion Support Network where you stand though to be sure.

You've been through so much so I hope you have a good support network around you. You did nothing wrong. It's this country and its cowardice that has people feeling they have no option but to break the law.

Big Bag of Chips

justfillmein, yes, you can recommend a Facebook group that may benefit the OP. There is no problem recommending other resources to people, such as books, websites, groups etc.

justfillmein

cool thanks.. so the fb group would be 'parents for choice discussion group'. it's a closed group and you can post anonymously. there is a lot of misinformation out there and some people have had bad experiences when looking for help. you need some help now and not to be given the run around. this fb group has some amount of support to offer.
good luck with everything in the future x

eviltwin

justfillmein wrote: »

cool thanks.. so the fb group would be 'parents for choice discussion group'. it's a closed group and you can post anonymously. there is a lot of misinformation out there and some people have had bad experiences when looking for help. you need some help now and not to be given the run around. this fb group has some amount of support to offer.
good luck with everything in the future x

Amazing group!!!!

MissShihTzu

No real advice to offer, but wanted to offer my support and tell you, you're not alone. I feel so bad that you are going this alone.

The advice offered so far is great. With regard to the Gards - Can you talk to somebody more senior preferably a woman? Harassment and stalking are serious matters, regardless of how it came about.

Wishing you lots of strength and luck.

_KellyCP_

leggo wrote: »

There will be better people than I who are more qualified to handle the abortion stuff.

In terms of your anxiety about being made an example of, put that out of your mind. It doesn't take away the legal aspect, but you're talking more politically around all the abortion debate. When that political element comes into cases, it tends more in the other direction as no Garda wants to dice with a legal grey area that could end up causing a very public backlash and leave them at the centre of it. I'm not saying that this case will disappear, I can't guarantee that, but as far as that element specifically it works more in your favour than against you. And you won't specifically be made an example of.

Seek legal advice on all of this from a solicitor immediately. If you can't afford one (which is ideal if you or your family have one you've worked and had success with before), make an appointment with the Free Legal Aid Centre. Don't say anything more to the Gardaí before you do this, even if you get brought in for questioning you are under no obligation to open your mouth. A solicitor will be best served to advise you on how to proceed with both defending this and pursuing the stalking claim.

In terms of the stalker, tell them that you have been in touch with the Gardaí and they will be dealing with it if the behaviour persists. They don't need to know the rest and maybe that'll get them to back down.

I'm sorry you're going through all of this OP. I really hope that, if this thread stays open, people who might have negative opinions on your choice show some empathy given all you're going through and keep their opinions on abortion to themselves. If you're thinking of saying something, it doesn't help now and you're just kicking a person while they're down.

Thank you so much. You're very kind, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I am juggling so many personal things at the moment and very nervous about guards now so will definitely be getting professional legal advice on that. The guard I was dealing with initially was so helpful but I don't know if I can go back and speak with him now.

In the current climate and the telling off and judgement I got from senior guard really frightened me. I should have not been dishonest in telling them first it was just a scare. Never thought things would unfold like this. Thank you for your help and kindness.

_KellyCP_

DoctorBoo wrote: »

Hi OP. Really really sorry all this awful stuff is happening to you.
You need to get some support re dealing with the guards on the abortion pill issue. There are organisations like the Irish Family Planning Association who might be able to help you out. There's also an organisation called Lawyers For Choice who specialise in this area of law. Google them or contact them on Twitter.
Don't try to take on all this on your own. You need help.

Thank you so much for getting back to me. Going to look them both up now, never even crossed my mind that they could help here. Nervous to even contact them after 'breaking the law' as I was told harshly. Thanks for your help.

_KellyCP_

eviltwin wrote: »

That is just horrific OP and I'm so angry you've had to deal with this. I don't know legally where you stand but I imagine you will be okay. So many pills have been seized by customs and to date no one in the south has been prosecuted. I think it's no harm to check with Abortion Support Network where you stand though to be sure.

You've been through so much so I hope you have a good support network around you. You did nothing wrong. It's this country and its cowardice that has people feeling they have no option but to break the law.

Thanks so much. Will check out Abortion Support Network now, thanks x I just am so afraid after what happened but thank you so much for your help

_KellyCP_

justfillmein wrote: »

cool thanks.. so the fb group would be 'parents for choice discussion group'. it's a closed group and you can post anonymously. there is a lot of misinformation out there and some people have had bad experiences when looking for help. you need some help now and not to be given the run around. this fb group has some amount of support to offer.
good luck with everything in the future x

Thank you so much. Had taken my Facebook down after it ended up hacked but will join that group as really this is taking its toll physically and mentally x appreciate it

MissShihTzu

_KellyCP_ wrote: »

Thank you so much. Had taken my Facebook down after it ended up hacked but will join that group as really this is taking its toll physically and mentally x appreciate it

I would suggest if you need to use Facebook, set up a dummy account with a throwaway e-mail address.

justfillmein

_KellyCP_ wrote: »

Thank you so much. Had taken my Facebook down after it ended up hacked but will join that group as really this is taking its toll physically and mentally x appreciate it

you will be able to speak with others who have been in your situation too for many different reasons. there will be no judging and no questioning, only directing you on how to move forward.
you made a really hard decision that you felt was best for you at this time. sorry you are feeling so alone. take care of yourself x

snowflaker

The Well woman centre is a good contact point. http://wellwomancentre.ie

retro:electro

Best of luck op. You did nothing wrong.
This country would sicken your hole at times.

CaoimheSquee

Best of luck OP. Abortion Support Network will help you and support you.
You shouldn't have had to go through any of this.
Stay strong, you have many behind you.

sassyj

Lawyers4choice@gmail.com (on Twitter @lawyers4choice) may be able to point you in the right direction. But as others have said, the guards won't take this on, there would be a huge public backlash! Sorry for your troubles.

lifeandtimes

Sounds like the guard was trting to use that lying on a statement is illegal, however the fact that you said it was a pregnancy scare instead of an abortion is a mute point as it has no bearing on the case. Also the guard can prove you took illegal pills either.

Either way they have to deal with your complaint as any other tax paying citizen. Get you rear down there and speak with the guard you got on with and ignore the other one

_KellyCP_

I'm so afraid I'm going to be prosecuted, so scared any time anyone passes the door. With abortion a big topic presently, and guard so against it, I'm so scared, Starting to get panic attacks, it really was the right thing to do. Irish Family Planning can't help but lawyersforchoice were so helpful but a long road still

It's been so hard and then stress to no ahead again, after 5 am and still yet to sleep and work at 8. So tiring.

. People have been so helpful, thanks xx

acorn

OP. My heart goes out to you. You have made an incredibly brave decision and should now be able to get on with your life.

I hope you get the advice and reassurance you need. I feel you also need somebody to talk to and maybe a shoulder to cry on. Do you have a close friend or family member to confide in ?
Do you want to say what part of the country you are in ? Maybe we could recommend somebody professional or otherwise.

You are not alone lying awake at 5am! We all have different reasons for our wakefulness but sharing the load can help you deal with it.

Please mind yourself and know that you have the love and support of many women around the country. Take care.

_KellyCP_

acorn wrote: »

OP. My heart goes out to you. You have made an incredibly brave decision and should now be able to get on with your life.

I hope you get the advice and reassurance you need. I feel you also need somebody to talk to and maybe a shoulder to cry on. Do you have a close friend or family member to confide in ?
Do you want to say what part of the country you are in ? Maybe we could recommend somebody professional or otherwise.

You are not alone lying awake at 5am! We all have different reasons for our wakefulness but sharing the load can help you deal with it.

Please mind yourself and know that you have the love and support of many women around the country. Take care.

Thank you so much. I'm in Dublin 4. Could travel anywhere in Dublin for help. I spoke properly to a very close friend, told her everything. There was relief in that as she is very understanding person. Thanks so much again, the help I've gotten on here was incredible.
I wasn't even sure any one person would answer post.

Thanks again!! Have a lovely day!

Goat the dote

Can the guards even prove you took an abortion pill?
Is the fact that you did/didn’t take the pill relevant to the harassment? If not I don’t see what difference it makes.

leggo

Goat the dote wrote: »

Can the guards even prove you took an abortion pill?
Is the fact that you did/didn’t take the pill relevant to the harassment? If not I don’t see what difference it makes.

From what I understand, there's no way to prove ingestion of the pill as what it does is effectively bring on a miscarriage, so you can even go to the hospital after taking it and be treated.

Now whether they can track the delivery or not is a different story, but will they? I think someone has said it here already and I remember hearing it, but nobody has been prosecuted in Ireland for this yet. If that's the case then they're not going to start now and face a huge backlash.

Cupcake_Crisis

Op, I don't think the gards would touch this in terms of prosecuting you, it'd open them up to a whirlwind of negative backlash. I think you may have just encountered a particularly nasty gard. They also can't refuse to look into your complaint if you are fearing for your safety. If, god forbid, anything came from it there'd be public uproar.

But I'd also like to point out how pathetic it is that a woman can't report a genuine fear for her safety without the fear of being prosecuted for having an abortion. I'm so sorry this has happened to you, I can't begin to tell you how unfair I think it is.

There's been some excellent resources given here, they'll be able to point you in the right direction legally. But also make sure you have someone to confide in for emotional support.

Neyite

Mod:

louiseobadam has been permanently banned from this forum, and it's subfora, for personal abuse. The offensive post has been deleted in order to avoid further derailment of this thread.

I'll take this opportunity to remind all that this forum expects civility from all posters. Replies should be helpful and constructive and be mindful that folk post personal issues here when they are upset and distressed and that a bit of kindness and compassion in your replies will go a long way.

_KellyCP_

I saw the post before person was banned. In case anyone else did, I feel for people who are trying for babies, I really do. But I couldn't keep. I didn't have the financial means on my own in Dublin to give it life it would deserve. I would have wanted the best for it. I just couldn't do it. Housing is tough up here, paying 1,500 for a one bedroom. Two bedrooms are 1,800 to 2,000 at minimum. I just can't do it.
He outright said he would have nothing to do with it.
I don't have the means. So don't judge until you're in the situation. I feel bad about it, I have thought about it every day, every night. I was in an impossible situation.

Sorry but what a horrible thing to read.

Meauldsegosha

OP you don't have justify your decision to anyone. It was your choice to make and it is not a choice you, or anyone, makes lightly.

I know it is difficult but try to focus on the positive posts on the thread and forget that other post.

Sending you good thoughts.

Cupcake_Crisis

_KellyCP_ wrote: »

I saw the post before person was banned. In case anyone else did, I feel for people who are trying for babies, I really do. But I couldn't keep. I didn't have the financial means on my own in Dublin to give it life it would deserve. I would have wanted the best for it. I just couldn't do it. Housing is tough up here, paying 1,500 for a one bedroom. Two bedrooms are 1,800 to 2,000 at minimum. I just can't do it.
He outright said he would have nothing to do with it.
I don't have the means. So don't judge until you're in the situation. I feel bad about it, I have thought about it every day, every night. I was in an impossible situation.

Sorry but what a horrible thing to read.

You don't have to justify your decision. It's not your responsibility to have children for someone who can't. As you said the father point blank decided that he wasn't having anything to do with the situation and you don't see anyone lambasting him for that.

shesty

I think what needs to be the focus here is how the OP is going to deal with the issues of a stalker, given the touchy nature of the subject when discussed with gardai.What's done is done otherwise, and I don't think there is anybody here that has any right to judge the OP on decisions she has made, or to tell her how she should feel about it.She does not have to justify this decision to anybody but herself.

Windorah

_KellyCP_ wrote: »

I saw the post before person was banned...

Sorry but what a horrible thing to read.

I felt compelled to post in here after reading your comment above. Under no circumstances do u ever have to justify your decision. A poster I saw at the recent march for repeal is relevant "Never an easy choice. Sometimes the right choice. Always the woman's choice".
I hope you have support around at this time. In time, if you feel strong enough, you can pursue the stalker with the Gardai.

Citygirl1

OP, if you wish to make contact with the original, most helpful, guard I would suggest: Ring the police station and ask when that guard is next on duty, and the start time of their shift. Then ring the station at that time, so you can catch them before they go out on patrol.

This is what I was told to do when I had dealings with them in the past, to catch the officer investigating my case. I actually was given out to for ringing the station a few times, and discussing the issue with different officers, when the investigating officer was not available.

Of course, there may be the risk now that the "more senior" officer may have given instructions to the original one. However, I'd suggest it's certainly worth trying to contact him (and avoid the other) to get things back on track.

pilly

OP, please don't try justify your decision to others, nothing to do with them.

On the matter of the Gardaí, that guy was just being an absolute arsehole. NO-ONE in this country has ever been prosecuted for an illegal abortion and they won't be either, it's too much of a hot potato.

With regards the matter of someone hacking your FB etc., I don't know how serious it is but would it not help to just close down your social media accounts and ignore them for the moment? You've enough to deal with. Unless they're physically threatening you then you don't need to take urgent action.

MissShihTzu

People really need to mind their own fcuking business and get a life. I hope the OP is doing better today.

DoctorBoo

Sending my support to you OP. Don't let anyone make you feel bad. It's nobody else's business.
I agree with the strategy of targeting the original nice guard. They need to deal with the stalking complaint.

never_mind

Thoughts going out to you, OP. No woman should be put under this amount of pressure. I can assure you, OP, if men were able to have children the pills you took would be available in esso stations. Keep the head up, your time will come (if you want children)... My mother had an abortion at 17 and she is now absolutely beyond lucky to have me, a big lump of a thing, as her youngest of four.

_KellyCP_

Thank you all so much.

I appreciate it all the kindness.

I have been in contact with a lawyer on the issue and legally the chances of being prosecuted for this are virtually zero. Relief in that is huge.

Not going to go back to guards as still shook over and it don't want to escalate anything in there as though chances are slim the law is still there.

Stalking issue I don't want to pursue as just don't want to deal with guards.. it kills me to have to let that go but I'm too afraid to deal with guards over abortion.

pilly

_KellyCP_ wrote: »

Thank you all so much.

I appreciate it all the kindness.

I have been in contact with a lawyer on the issue and legally the chances of being prosecuted for this are virtually zero. Relief in that is huge.

Not going to go back to guards as still shook over and it don't want to escalate anything in there as though chances are slim the law is still there.

Stalking issue I don't want to pursue as just don't want to deal with guards.. it kills me to have to let that go but I'm too afraid to deal with guards over abortion.

I think you're right to let it go. The likes of people who do that sort of **** only get satisfaction out of more drama.

_KellyCP_

I have such guilt over what I did. Even the law gave out to me,

eviltwin

_KellyCP_ wrote: »

I have such guilt over what I did. Even the law have out to me,

That's only because this country is a backward hole where this issue is concerned. If you lived in any other first world country you would not have had to go to these lengths.

If you are feeling guilty it might be no harm to get a bit of counselling. Tbh after all that you have been through it could help.

_KellyCP_

eviltwin wrote: »

That's only because this country is a backward hole where this issue is concerned. If you lived in any other first world country you would not have had to go to these lengths.

If you are feeling guilty it might be no harm to get a bit of counselling. Tbh after all that you have been through it could help.

Thanks

Will do. Between becoming pregnant, being told i would be getting no support, said he wouldn't see it or even tell his family about it, to getting hacked my person life passed around to scare with guard.

It's been horrid.

shesty

I do think you should get support, someone to talk through everything that has happened.

On a personal level, I think the psychological after-effect of abortion is something is being totally ignored in the abortion debate, to the detriment of the whole debate.Everybody who has one has their reasons, but to pretend that life just goes on afterwards and everything is grand again, is just a farce.Maybe it does for a small minority, but there's no way every woman walks away from it without feeling terrible guilt.I can only imagine it will take you some time to figure out how to process it kelly, and the incident with the stalking and the gardai has just exacerbated the whole thing.Take your time, get some support and be nice to yourself.It sounds like you've had a really tough few months.

_KellyCP_

shesty wrote: »

I do think you should get support, someone to talk through everything that has happened.

On a personal level, I think the psychological after-effect of abortion is something is being totally ignored in the abortion debate, to the detriment of the whole debate.Everybody who has one has their reasons, but to pretend that life just goes on afterwards and everything is grand again, is just a farce.Maybe it does for a small minority, but there's no way every woman walks away from it without feeling terrible guilt.I can only imagine it will take you some time to figure out how to process it kelly, and the incident with the stalking and the gardai has just exacerbated the whole thing.Take your time, get some support and be nice to yourself.It sounds like you've had a really tough few months.

Thanks x
Absolutely, personally finding post abortion difficult, even though it was right decision under the circumstances.

Stalking is continuing and turned violent but afraid to go to guards

njs030

_KellyCP_ wrote: »

Thanks x
Absolutely, personally finding post abortion difficult, even though it was right decision under the circumstances.

Stalking is continuing and turned violent but afraid to go to guards

Go back to the guards, if you know the name of the one you spoke to originally phone up and ask when he will be working again and ask for him to call you to make an appointment to see him, you can do that it's perfectly OK.

eviltwin

_KellyCP_ wrote: »

Thanks x
Absolutely, personally finding post abortion difficult, even though it was right decision under the circumstances.

Stalking is continuing and turned violent but afraid to go to guards

Its completely natural to feel a come down following an abortion, its a normal physical reaction to the change in hormones, similar to the baby blues following a birth. If its not going away you need to talk to someone, IFPA can offer free post abortion counselling, given the circumstances of the abortion its vital you have a six week check up too to make sure everything is okay with your recovery.

Re the stalking you have to go back to the guards with this, do you know who is behind it? If its getting violent its gone beyond something you can manage on your own. I know you feel scared but you are unlikely to get into any trouble and you need help.

shesty

Is the stalking actually related to the abortion OP?can you tell the Gardai about the stalker without the abortion coming up?

_KellyCP_

The stalking is related to the abortion. Very closely so. Keep getting messages referring to being a 'baby killer', screenshots of messages that I sent to a friend over fb talking about not knowing what to do, ordering pills etc.. these were all passed on to family and friends and other personal things. It was horrible.

I just really don't want to deal with guards again after threat of prosecution for bringing pills in etc..
It's just a mess. Spoke to lawyer and they said not to say to guards again about abortion pills but it's already on my statement as was so interlinked to the threats and abuse.

Thanks everyone.

Ursus Horribilis

Can you bring your solicitor along with you to the garda station?