Pensions

visatorro

Just wondering how many are paying into pensions? I'm in my thirties and I don't see a state pension there for me. Work off farm and am paying into a pension. God knows whether it will be worth anything or not. A lot of people my age seem to be in the dark over this. But then again alot of older people have seen pensions wiped out!

mahoney_j

visatorro wrote: »

Just wondering how many are paying into pensions? I'm in my thirties and I don't see a state pension there for me. Work off farm and am paying into a pension. God knows whether it will be worth anything or not. A lot of people my age seem to be in the dark over this. But then again alot of older people have seen pensions wiped out!

Paying 200 a month into one for last 8 years and depending on tax situation when accounts finalised I may add more .ill be worth a fortune when I retire !!!!

3 the square

Paying into one with 15 years tissue worth it for the tax relief
Nice sum of money in it .

whelan2

Paying into one a good few years. It's a low risk one

tomwaterford

Was planning on buying some very rough ground to plant when I'm circa 40 and hope it'll be a good payout after 20-25 years


I'm way too skeptical after seeing so many lose everything in pensions from factories etc I'd hate it to happen me,id be happy to pay into a pension if it gaurenteed 100% payout of what I put in....but my off farm job is woeful paid <11 an hour

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

Paying 200 a month into one for last 8 years and depending on tax situation when accounts finalised I may add more .ill be worth a fortune when I retire !!!!

Have been putting about 120e/month last few years, alongside the odd few lump sums, however got talking to my sister who has herself a well paid bank job, and what she has been putting away makes mine look like penny's ha. Did make me question what am I at even staying farming 2bh. Retirement moving forward is a scary prospect in many western countries, ever increasing population age as a result of low birth rates and high immigration, no two ways about it retirement costs will keep in increasing, and governments will be less and less able to afford state pensions, having a decent private pension or retirement funds of some sort are more and more vital.

Timmaay

tomwaterford wrote: »

Was planning on buying some very rough ground to plant when I'm circa 40 and hope it'll be a good payout after 20-25 years


I'm way too skeptical after seeing so many lose everything in pensions from factories etc I'd hate it to happen me,id be happy to pay into a pension if it gaurenteed 100% payout of what I put in....but my off farm job is woeful paid <11 an hour

This is an unfortunate attitude throughout the country, too many horror stories of people who got badly burnt just after the boom, and as a result people just bury their head in the sand about pensions and often start too late. From my understanding there are afew simple but very very important rules of thumb about pension funds, 1stly you have to diversify, too much of your pension in property was the biggest problem 10yrs ago. Most good pension funds have no more than 15% in property. The other rule of thumb is you gotta take some risk when you are in your 30s, if the fund is 100% safe you will not even keep up with inflation, and after say 30 years what you put in now will buy you a hell of alot less when drawn down in the future. When you get closer to retirement you then definitely start looking at more and more secure options, that make sure you don't end up with a horror story of losing a huge amount.

lakill Farm

Had a pension then stopped it. I was fed up paying Irish life to loss money when I could buy machinery and have fun and not be charged a management fee for the joy of it

Going to set about building a low risk property portfolio over the next 10/15 years till I'm 50 years old.
Farm is only p/t here.
Lucky the day job I can continue until the grave as not physical etc. And herself is a civil servant so they get a decent enough pension

The English have a great scheme where you can manage your own pension pot if you want.
So if you invested 50k into your pension you could go buy a house or shares or what ever and profits or loss belongs to your pension. Kinda same rules if you extract the pension with being taxed etc.

annubis

lakill Farm wrote: »

Had a pension then stopped it. I was few up paying Irish life to loss money when I could buy machinery and have fun and not be charged a management fee for the joy of it

Going to set about building a low risk property portfolio over the next 10/15 years till I'm 50 years old.
Farm is only p/t here.
Lucky the day job I can continue until the grave as not physical etc. And herself is a civil servant so they get a decent enough pension

The English have a great scheme where you can manage your own pension pot if you want.
So if you invested 50k into your pension you could go buy a house or shares or what ever and profits or loss belongs to your pension. Kinda same rules if you extract the pension with being taxed etc.

let say you have pension here with one of the financial institutions, can you not transfer that pension to another management agency for want of proper term and effectively manage it yourself and use funds for property or whatever you want?

lakill Farm

annubis wrote: »

let say you have pension here with one of the financial institutions, can you not transfer that pension to another management agency for want of proper term and effectively manage it yourself and use funds for property or whatever you want?

I don't think it's an option here to be honest. I may however be incorrect. It's not a field I'd be very familiar with. It wasn't an option up to 12/18months ago
However I did a fair bit of work on the investment part of the self manage U.K. Pensions. Loads of high net worth individuals buy property , art, wine, forestry, carparks, hospitals & nursing homes, and also fractional ownership of property/planes etc.

Muckit

tomwaterford wrote: »

I'd be happy to pay into a pension if it gaurenteed 100% payout of what I put in..(

With inflation you'd actually be losing money. ie €25,000 now has more buying power than it will have in 20-years time. That's why people that never invest never have anything.

boggerman1

Don't have one and have no intention of giving money over to someone to gamble it for me
If I walk into paddy powers and lose it at least it'smy decision.i know people here will slat me for such an attitude but to me the whole pensions thing is arse ways.love how bank will always ring around this time of yr to try and take out one.last time they rang I stopped the bank manager in mid sentence and told her to put on top of her file not to ask again.

arctictree

visatorro wrote: »

Just wondering how many are paying into pensions? I'm in my thirties and I don't see a state pension there for me. Work off farm and am paying into a pension. God knows whether it will be worth anything or not. A lot of people my age seem to be in the dark over this. But then again alot of older people have seen pensions wiped out!

Can I ask why you see the above in bold? The government regularly increase the pension for OAPs even though the pensions industry keeps coming up with stats and figures about how the state pension will be worthless in years to come.

darragh_haven

I have pne for about 5 years at this stage. It very tax efficient as I'min the high tax bracket. If i put in €500, it costs me about €290 as the rest is taxable income. I go into my broker every year to tweek where my money goes to be invested.

My 2nd main reason for paying into a pension is for the lump sum I'll get on retirement, this is needed for a week-long binge on coke & hookers. I want to live like a mod for one week....

lakill Farm

darragh_haven wrote: »

I have pne for about 5 years at this stage. It very tax efficient as I'min the high tax bracket. If i put in €500, it costs me about €290 as the rest is taxable income. I go into my broker every year to tweek where my money goes to be invested.

My 2nd main reason for paying into a pension is for the lump sum I'll get on retirement, this is needed for a week-long binge on coke & hookers. I want to live like a mod for one week....

maybe increase it from €500 to €510 . you forgot to factor in Viagra

AndrewJRenko

visatorro wrote: »

Just wondering how many are paying into pensions? I'm in my thirties and I don't see a state pension there for me. Work off farm and am paying into a pension. God knows whether it will be worth anything or not. A lot of people my age seem to be in the dark over this. But then again alot of older people have seen pensions wiped out!

The only people who had their pensions wiped out were people who thought they were 'cute hoors' and did it themselves - like Gaybo who decided to put everything into Anglo-Irish instead of a diversified funds. Funds took a hit when the market crashed, but anybody approaching retirement age should have been moving their funds into cash for 5-10 years beforehand anyway.

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Have been putting about 120e/month last few years, alongside the odd few lump sums, however got talking to my sister who has herself a well paid bank job, and what she has been putting away makes mine look like penny's ha. Did make me question what am I at even staying farming 2bh. Retirement moving forward is a scary prospect in many western countries, ever increasing population age as a result of low birth rates and high immigration, no two ways about it retirement costs will keep in increasing, and governments will be less and less able to afford state pensions, having a decent private pension or retirement funds of some sort are more and more vital.

I was advised I should be putting at least 500 a month in mine ,couldn't afford it on top of mortgage ,loans ,childcare etc etc .absoutely critical to have pension of some form going forward

mahoney_j

boggerman1 wrote: »

Don't have one and have no intention of giving money over to someone to gamble it for me
If I walk into paddy powers and lose it at least it'smy decision.i know people here will slat me for such an attitude but to me the whole pensions thing is arse ways.love how bank will always ring around this time of yr to try and take out one.last time they rang I stopped the bank manager in mid sentence and told her to put on top of her file not to ask again.

Have u a plan in place for retirement ???

lakill Farm

mahoney_j wrote: »

I was advised I should be putting at least 500 a month in mine ,couldn't afford it on top of mortgage ,loans ,childcare etc etc .absoutely critical to have pension of some form going forward

everyone is going on about how much they are putting in

The key to pension is working the opposite way

How much money you require P.A. to have the lifestyle you wish when you retire . Then the age you wish to retire.

Run them through an actuarial program and it will tell you how much you need to pay into a pension from today till retirement date.

unlike a lot of industries , farmers retire younger than others especially if there is succession of a daughter/son to take over. course always a few who never retire but that's not a discussion for here

visatorro

arctictree wrote: »

Can I ask why you see the above in bold? The government regularly increase the pension for OAPs even though the pensions industry keeps coming up with stats and figures about how the state pension will be worthless in years to come.

I think in thirty years there will be no pension for a clown like me that pays tax. Our pension pot was used before to bail out bankers et al. No reason it won't happen again.
I would imagine that I could be means tested. So if you own a house or land there will be reduced pensions.

kowtow

lakill Farm wrote: »

Had a pension then stopped it. I was fed up paying Irish life to loss money when I could buy machinery and have fun and not be charged a management fee for the joy of it

Going to set about building a low risk property portfolio over the next 10/15 years till I'm 50 years old.
Farm is only p/t here.
Lucky the day job I can continue until the grave as not physical etc. And herself is a civil servant so they get a decent enough pension

The English have a great scheme where you can manage your own pension pot if you want.
So if you invested 50k into your pension you could go buy a house or shares or what ever and profits or loss belongs to your pension. Kinda same rules if you extract the pension with being taxed etc.

Some good points made here.

There are two real problems with pensions in the current climate.

The first is the high risk exposure & sketchy management which caused so many to lose in "gold plated" assets like bank shares, property etc. - let alone in the real risk assets.

The second is that in a decade of very low returns on fixed income, low interest rates, etc. , a lot of fund managers struggle to keep up with even (supposedly non-existent) inflation. You might not get any returns keeping cash under the mattress, but you won't have to pay a hundred and fifty basis points of management fees either...

For those who are young enough paying in little and often and hoping for long term inflation has historically helped keep things comfortable.

For those of us who are older, making sure the cow standings are at the right height, nice light clusters, and perhaps enough room in the pit for a walking frame?

boggerman1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Have u a plan in place for retirement ???[/quote become a td and hope it goes full term.pension secured!

tomwaterford

mahoney_j wrote: »

Have u a plan in place for retirement ???

Mainly die young :pac:

rangler1

lakill Farm wrote: »

everyone is going on about how much they are putting in

The key to pension is working the opposite way

How much money you require P.A. to have the lifestyle you wish when you retire . Then the age you wish to retire.

Run them through an actuarial program and it will tell you how much you need to pay into a pension from today till retirement date.

unlike a lot of industries , farmers retire younger than others especially if there is succession of a daughter/son to take over. course always a few who never retire but that's not a discussion for here

I'm surprised that you, as an accountant, aren't managing your own pension, I thought you guys had the inside track in finance.....my accountant advises me any way.
I've been putting money in a pension for years but it got scuttled in 2008, but I'm glad to say it has recovered well since, but if we had a family here we wouldn't have had a hope of keeping one going, any talk of working backwards to work out what you need is rubbish if you can't afford it, the bank and Public sevices pay is inflated to allow workers to pay into a decent pension and is not realistic in the real world.....I see the PS is going to amalgamate and form some sort of a super union to rip off the tax payers....god help us, will someone look after the little people

lakill Farm

Didn't I say I am managing her. She goes to work 5 days a week. That's a joke btw.

I have invested in one or 2 things that have proven return thus far. One of them will net me 2000e a month from 2030 and I'll only be 47. So pension no but 2 ways to skin a rabbit as they say

On the point where you say that it's rubbish starting at retirement date and calculating backwards, it's the only way.
These QFA that throw out the glossy leaflet with if you invest this amount a year stuff. Most of them are sales people and couldn't give a F once you sign the agreement. No point thinking you have a pension if your putting in e10 a month when in theory you do.
Your looking at large monthly payments into a pension to have the same as a gardai , teacher, nurse.

rangler1 wrote: »

I'm surprised that you, as an accountant, aren't managing your own pension, I thought you guys had the inside track in finance.....my accountant advises me any way.
I've been putting money in a pension for years but it got scuttled in 2008, but I'm glad to say it has recovered well since, but if we had a family here we wouldn't have had a hope of keeping one going, any talk of working backwards to work out what you need is rubbish if you can't afford it, the bank and Public sevices pay is inflated to allow workers to pay into a decent pension and is not realistic in the real world.....I see the PS is going to amalgamate and form some sort of a super union to rip off the tax payers....god help us, will someone look after the little people

kowtow

lakill Farm wrote: »

... One of them will net me 2000e a month from 2030 and I'll only be 47. So pension no but 2 ways to skin a rabbit as they say

On the point where you say that it's rubbish starting at retirement date and calculating backwards, it's the only way.
These QFA that throw out the glossy leaflet with if you invest this amount a year stuff. Most of them are sales people and couldn't give a F once you sign the agreement. No point thinking you have a pension if your putting in e10 a month when in theory you do.
Your looking at large monthly payments into a pension to have the same as a gardai , teacher, nurse.

Ah you are only a spring chicken yet!

The only point I'd add is that at today's interest rates actuarial figures for a set amount of income in old age are bound to look very high... unaffordable even.. a situation which may yet turn out to be true.

I can see people being put off investing in a pension because of this. If and when the monetary climate changes back to a more normal one low risk returns may well increase and you may be getting more bang in old age for your buck. In the meantime there is probably no harm in saving now.

Whether or not that is a good thing, who knows.

yosemitesam1

kowtow wrote: »

For those who are young enough paying in little and often and hoping for long term inflation has historically helped keep things comfortable.

Is there a risk that pensions are just a big ponzi scheme sustained by population growth. In the next 50 years will more money start to be pulled out without being replaced?

kowtow

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Is there a risk that pensions are just a big ponzi scheme sustained by population growth. In the next 50 years will more money start to be pulled out without being replaced?

You can say that of almost any aspect of our "modern" economies.

Consider the number of people employed to distribute, rather than create, wealth.

Every compliance officer, health and safety man, half the management in the world, and all the shops and specialists who serve them are already taking a piece out of the simplest value chain. And that's before we get to those who are living "off" the state, from the unemployed, to the civil service, and - most of all - to the pharma and bio billionaires who make a living selling very high margin science to taxpayer funded public and quasi-public health services.

And then there is the increasing influence of automation and robotics, and to what extent society is going to have to increase redistribution to maintain cohesion.

If you accept that money recirculated is wealth in itself - and there is a sense in which that is true - then perhaps all will be well.

But if wealth as we understand it and money as we know it part ways at some point in the near future, then ponzi scheme will be an understatement.

kevthegaff

I was reading Warren Buffet on his investments in heinz, ex on mobile, coke cola, mcdonalds. He invests in general where a dividend is paid out say 2-3% and reinvests the dividend also while adding to the pot. Then I thought is he just getting us to invest in his portfolio....

Mac Taylor

Speaking of Ponzi schemes, one could argue that the money (cash) in your pocket is one. It's based on a premise that there is gold somewhere to back it up, conspiracy theorist argue that fort knox is just a sham, no gold there.....hang on am I in F&F or in After hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!


On topic....I've been paying into a pension fund since I started work, An old boss of mine brought be into his office on day 1 and told me to sign a form, out of curiosity I asked him what the form was.....pension form, ah I don't need that.....you will.....sign here. Well glad I did now.!

AndrewJRenko

kowtow wrote: »

Some good points made here.

There are two real problems with pensions in the current climate.

The first is the high risk exposure & sketchy management which caused so many to lose in "gold plated" assets like bank shares, property etc. - let alone in the real risk assets.

The second is that in a decade of very low returns on fixed income, low interest rates, etc. , a lot of fund managers struggle to keep up with even (supposedly non-existent) inflation. You might not get any returns keeping cash under the mattress, but you won't have to pay a hundred and fifty basis points of management fees either...

For those who are young enough paying in little and often and hoping for long term inflation has historically helped keep things comfortable.

For those of us who are older, making sure the cow standings are at the right height, nice light clusters, and perhaps enough room in the pit for a walking frame?

Pension fund returns are really fairly good. Risk is well managed by geographic and sectoral diversification - so when Irish financial shares tanked, that might have 2% of the overall portfolio, so the overall impact is minimal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/pension-funds-finish-2016-on-a-high-after-strong-final-quarter-1.2926651

Bass Reeves

lakill Farm wrote: »

everyone is going on about how much they are putting in

The key to pension is working the opposite way

How much money you require P.A. to have the lifestyle you wish when you retire . Then the age you wish to retire.

Run them through an actuarial program and it will tell you how much you need to pay into a pension from today till retirement date.

unlike a lot of industries , farmers retire younger than others especially if there is succession of a daughter/son to take over. course always a few who never retire but that's not a discussion for here

Most people over estimate how much they need when they retire. Now there is a few things to know. In 30 years time people at 70 will be like 60ish years olds now. But for many public servants included retirement may well be that age or older. If you want to see retirements in action go to Florida and Universal Studios and Disney in particular. You will see retiree's supplementing there pension by working.

It is never too late to start a pension. However in Ireland there is a few issues. first if you are an employee in general you have to buy an annunity. Annunity rates are terrible 3.5-4% that means that for a 100K pension pot you will get 3.5-4k in a pension (50% surviving spouse 2% inflation) at 65ish. I agree with Andrew in general those that had there pensions wiped out in the last crash in general were over invested one product. It was not just bank shore but also in leveraged property abroad or those that invested in Irish property highly leveraged with low yields. However those that survived the property bust( generally those that were not overextended and could manage the property's themselves) are back in positive terms now.

In general there are a couple of thing to know about pensions. You can draw down 1.5 times you best of 3 average P60's in the 10 years before retirements. Your spouse can do the same. For lots of couples that can mean they can draw down a lump sum in excess 100K. This should be a minimum target.

Limited companies also help. If you build up cash reserves you can draw these down as income over a number of years. However there are costs involved in maintaining LTD status. The advantages of property is that it can be leveraged at the start and manged by yourself. For those that are in employment where your employer will add to you contributions investing in a pension is a no brainer. You could have a situation where your employer will match your contribution euro/euro. So a 100 euro investment will cost you 30 euro in real terms at the high rate of tax.

Even in the last 5-10 years before retirement existing savings can be transfered into low risk investment funds( cash government bonds) to be drawn down through the lump sum mechanism mentioned earlier. Know a couple that put togeather a 100K pot in ten years through some saved money and yearly savings.

Year one 10K cost 6K net after 4K tax refund
Year two 10K as above
.
.
.
.
.
Year ten 10K costs 6K after tax refund

Total nearly 70K was drawn down at the end of Y 10 when the eldest retired, they continuing to put money in for the younger spouse who can draw down about 55k when they retire.

wordofwarning

A lot of people here have bad misconceptions of pensions, that I will try clear up:

1)The example of the lads in the factory getting no pension. A lot of older pensions, were pulled from someones arse. You paid a small bit each month and were told you were going to get massive payout at the end. They not based on underlying assets. They were a ponzi scheme. These are called defined benefit schemes pensions. You will not be buying one of these pensions from a broker.

2) A properly managed pension should have relatively small risk. A lot of people had poorly diversified pensions. They might have gotten back advice or given their financial advisor bad advice ie load up on bank shares and Irish property. If they had chosen to buy an index of banks, they likely would have been up on their money today.

3) You can get UK style self-executed pensions here. The likes of Davys do them. But if you don't know what you are doing, you should not touch them. As it is gambling and not investing

4) Some management fees on pensions are massive. But a lot are quite reasonable if you do your research.

5) Go to a financial advisor who charges a fee and not a broker. A broker is a sales person and they don't have your interest in mind. They will sell you what makes them the most commission. A financial advisor makes his money on the fee and not the sale. So therefore he will sell you what is best

6) Markets tank all the time. But when you are 35 and putting in a pension, the market tanking is not relevant to you really. You are not cashing out now but well into the future.

visatorro

Is DB not a great pension? That's why every company got rid of them?

lakill Farm

All this pension stuff is fine but you still have to survive in present. At 26 &24 we took out a 35 year Mortgage.

My parents were finished mortgage just as they hit 50. That's 10 years early. Or currently at home approx 150k of a difference in cash flow terms.

There are a lot of my generation can't buy homes. Crèche payments etc. When the choice comes pension versus current living the later will be priority for vast majority.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Most people over estimate how much they need when they retire. Now there is a few things to know. In 30 years time people at 70 will be like 60ish years olds now. But for many public servants included retirement may well be that age or older. If you want to see retirements in action go to Florida and Universal Studios and Disney in particular. You will see retiree's supplementing there pension by working.

It is never too late to start a pension. However in Ireland there is a few issues. first if you are an employee in general you have to buy an annunity. Annunity rates are terrible 3.5-4% that means that for a 100K pension pot you will get 3.5-4k in a pension (50% surviving spouse 2% inflation) at 65ish. I agree with Andrew in general those that had there pensions wiped out in the last crash in general were over invested one product. It was not just bank shore but also in leveraged property abroad or those that invested in Irish property highly leveraged with low yields. However those that survived the property bust( generally those that were not overextended and could manage the property's themselves) are back in positive terms now.

In general there are a couple of thing to know about pensions. You can draw down 1.5 times you best of 3 average P60's in the 10 years before retirements. Your spouse can do the same. For lots of couples that can mean they can draw down a lump sum in excess 100K. This should be a minimum target.

Limited companies also help. If you build up cash reserves you can draw these down as income over a number of years. However there are costs involved in maintaining LTD status. The advantages of property is that it can be leveraged at the start and manged by yourself. For those that are in employment where your employer will add to you contributions investing in a pension is a no brainer. You could have a situation where your employer will match your contribution euro/euro. So a 100 euro investment will cost you 30 euro in real terms at the high rate of tax.

Even in the last 5-10 years before retirement existing savings can be transfered into low risk investment funds( cash government bonds) to be drawn down through the lump sum mechanism mentioned earlier. Know a couple that put togeather a 100K pot in ten years through some saved money and yearly savings.

Year one 10K cost 6K net after 4K tax refund
Year two 10K as above
.
.
.
.
.
Year ten 10K costs 6K after tax refund

Total nearly 70K was drawn down at the end of Y 10 when the eldest retired, they continuing to put money in for the younger spouse who can draw down about 55k when they retire.

Bass Reeves

visatorro wrote: »

Is DB not a great pension? That's why every company got rid of them?

Yes if they are fully funded. But in general most are not. Most DB schemes assumed that people would only live to there mid 70's however in general DB schemes were in place for those that were better off ( in banks, airlines etc) and those people are living beyond 80 years of age. Existing pensioners are using up funds. In Ireland we have an issue that was not addressed regarding waht happened if such a fund collapsed. What happened in Waterford Glass was that existing pensioners were looked after while those that were to retire within days of doing so got nothing or virtually nothing.

most DB schemes in Ireland are in finiancial diffuculty.

lakill Farm

visatorro wrote: »

Is DB not a great pension? That's why every company got rid of them?

Definite Benefit are fantastic pensions. Companies ended up having to fund the under performance of the pension. Intel has scrapped the DB earlier this year. Think a few of the semi states were In trouble also like BNM ESB and Irish rail.

Bass Reeves

lakill Farm wrote: »

Definite Benefit are fantastic pensions. Companies ended up having to fund the under performance of the pension. Intel has scrapped the DB earlier this year. Think a few of the semi states were In trouble also like BNM ESB and Irish rail.

The Irish rail is actually the complete old CIE group of Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann and Irish rail. The Aer Lingus/Aer Rianta fund is also in trouble. While these may look few in number they constitute a large number of workers. As well INM tried to wind up there scheme earlier this year the government half stepped in. AFAIK An Post is not too healty either. Our own IFA fund is not too ok either

Even those joining DB schemes now do so under different terms. Traditionally most gave half pay at 40 years service on final pay at retiring. Those retiring often got/took promotion towards the end of there working careers. Now it is on average lifetime earnings.

As well the OAP is part of the pot as all contribute into it. For those on lower earnings this means the DB scheme will often only give them a minimun pension of 30-60/week and a lump sum of sub 50K often for onerous contributions at the lower tax rate.

pms7

Paying into one for last 20 years. However only noticed lately that it doesn't start until I'm 70...

123shooter

Ask them if they guarantee a figure that they claim they will pay out?

trg

lakill Farm wrote: »

everyone is going on about how much they are putting in

The key to pension is working the opposite way

How much money you require P.A. to have the lifestyle you wish when you retire . Then the age you wish to retire.

Run them through an actuarial program and it will tell you how much you need to pay into a pension from today till retirement date.

unlike a lot of industries , farmers retire younger than others especially if there is succession of a daughter/son to take over. course always a few who never retire but that's not a discussion for here

Not sure I'm looking at it the right way but is there any other product that gives an instant return of 40% being tax saving?
Hard to argue with that subject to cash flow which is king of course

Timmaay

trg wrote: »

Not sure I'm looking at it the right way but is there any other product that gives an instant return of 40% being tax saving?
Hard to argue with that subject to cash flow which is king of course

Don't think I'd be that positive about the tax savings ha, There is the lump sum you can drawn down at your retirement, but after that you are taxed on your pension, however the odds are it will be only taxed at the lower rate.

In terms of instant returns, make 100% sure you are putting every single receipt that you are legally allowed to put in the books as a farm expense, makes sure you have all employees down on the books and not cash in hand etc etc. Other things such as are family included on the books as paid labour if possible (children or spouses who are are not on the high rate of tax). Look at whether your better off putting in items as capital expenditure or maintenance (which can be wrote off 100% in that tax year).
Outside of this there are other schemes such as the rent a room tax relief if you happen to be lucky enough to live in an area that there could be demand for that etc.

123shooter

trg wrote: »

Not sure I'm looking at it the right way but is there any other product that gives an instant return of 40% being tax saving?
Hard to argue with that subject to cash flow which is king of course

Guaranteed 40% ????? WOW !!! :):D:D

123shooter

The law of life :rolleyes:

If there was a group of people with lots of weekly income........a government will find a way to relieve you of as much as possible of it. If not now, then at sometime in the future.

...............

Large offices in the most expensive parts of cities...........vehicles.........hundreds or thousands of staff on big wages...........running costs........commission payments.........profit for the shareholders...........and then an ever increasing amount of claimants for an increasing length of time................That is some company being successful for many many years, in fact they need to be successful for all of your life with all the unforeseen problems the world can throw at it.

Sam Kade

mahoney_j wrote: »

Paying 200 a month into one for last 8 years and depending on tax situation when accounts finalised I may add more .ill be worth a fortune when I retire !!!!

Tax free paying, taxed on payout, you can't win.

wordofwarning

123shooter wrote: »

Ask them if they guarantee a figure that they claim they will pay out?

That is often an annuity. It often underperforms the market

I would choose a decent portfolio over it any day

If you are in your 20/30s, you need a pension that is heavily invested in stocks and not so much bonds. Avoid precious metals, as the return is not great over the long term

123shooter

wordofwarning wrote: »

That is often an annuity. It often underperforms the market

I would choose a decent portfolio over it any day

If you are in your 20/30s, you need a pension that is heavily invested in stocks and not so much bonds. Avoid precious metals, as the return is not great over the long term

If I guarantee what I pay you every week then you guarantee what you pay me back.

If I go to the shop with good money then what I purchase has to be correct otherwise I get my money back..........same applies to a pension.

I don't want loose promises or guess work. I can gamble my own money on the horses if that is the case, I do not need some one to do it for me.

kevthegaff

What happens if one dies halfway through the pension?

Mooooo

kevthegaff wrote: »

What happens if one dies halfway through the pension?

Left to the estate or whatever your will specifies

Floki

kevthegaff wrote: »

What happens if one dies halfway through the pension?

You get the rest of it in heaven.

What does happen the money?
Presume it stays with the institution.

Edit: Mooo answered above.

Mooooo

Actually it's depending on the product I think, there are some that will pay out a certain amount till you die and they are basically are taking a punt on you passing and and they keep what evers left but if it's gone before you die they have to keep paying not sure what it's called