Rear-ended by unaccompanied learner driver

tipperary

Was rear-ended yesterday evening by an unaccompanied learner driver. Both cars undrivable and have been towed away. My insurers were closed (was able to notify them about the incident but that was it) so haven't been able to discuss with them yet. The other party has admitted guilt (verbally) and offered to pay for damages.
It turns out though that because the other party was an unaccompanied learner driver they have stated that she was not insured. If the cost of repair is too high for her, do my insurers just claim from the Mibi? Will they cover the excess on my policy?
Also wondering if they are likely to cover for loss in value of my car (its a 171 kuga)? Any help appreciated.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

bazz26

Their insurance company will still be obliged under law to pay to have your car repaired and any other associated 3rd party costs so there is nothing to worry about there from that side. Just make sure you get the details of any witnesses and gardai if called to the scene as you would be surprised how stories can change overnight when the initial shock is over and the usual bad advice given by family and friends in an attempt to avoid liability.

The other driver might be in deep **** though as their insurance company may well try to reclaim those costs back from their client through the courts if they feel it is financially worth going that route but that is not your concern.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Don't try and settle this away from her insurance. Most people usually baulk when they see the actual repair cost

mgbgt1978

tipperary wrote: »

Also wondering if they are likely to cover for loss in value of my car (its a 171 kuga)? Any help appreciated.

The Depreciation is usually a fixed amount of the cost of repair (10%, or so). You really should engage a solicitor to help you with this incident. Despite what many here will say your own Insurers are simply interested in not having to pay out any costs, while the other Driver's Insurers will be determined to avoid paying out for as long (and as little) as possible.

ba_barabus

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

The Depreciation is usually a fixed amount of the cost of repair (10%, or so). You really should engage a solicitor to help you with this incident. Despite what many here will say your own Insurers are simply interested in not having to pay out any costs, while the other Driver's Insurers will be determined to avoid paying out for as long (and as little) as possible.

It's a pretty straight forward case and the OP is legally protected.

There's no dispute currently.

December2012

If your car is that damaged make sure you're checked over physically too.

Gmaximum

You're covered

Her insurance company will try to minimise the payout, just as they wood with any claim. Assuming your physically ok I'd suggest using an independent motor engineer/assessor. They'll insure repairs are carried out to a high standard and the claim covers all loss

Pkiernan

Also be sure to ask the Guards to press charges.
Isn't there also a new law that the owner if the car is also criminally liable if permission was given.

This driver needs to be prosecuted.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/owners-to-be-accountable-if-car-driven-by-unaccompanied-learner-1.2928361%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=0ahUKEwi5rJS0_s7WAhULblAKHaPZDxUQFggfMAA&usg=AOvVaw2k4m6VuA0MP4sZDUN2E76X&ampcf=1

corks finest

Pkiernan wrote: »

Also be sure to ask the Guards to press charges.
Isn't there also a new law that the owner if the car is also criminally liable if permission was given.

This driver needs to be prosecuted.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/owners-to-be-accountable-if-car-driven-by-unaccompanied-learner-1.2928361%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=0ahUKEwi5rJS0_s7WAhULblAKHaPZDxUQFggfMAA&usg=AOvVaw2k4m6VuA0MP4sZDUN2E76X&ampcf=1

Rightly so,why the Gardai don't do their job,and take unaccompanied drivers off the road idont know,lived in Derry a long time, doesn't happen,only here in ballygobackwards

Pkiernan

BTW a 17-1 car that is undriveable is going to cost many many thousands to fix.

I love Sean nos

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Don't try and settle this away from her insurance. Most people usually baulk when they see the actual repair cost

I never understand why anyone would even consider this. No benefit. Just risk.

smelly sock

Give the learner a chance to front up the cost out of theur pocket first. Was it a youngster?

Listen we all have made mistakes on the road. A claim like this will follow them around for 10 years.

Nobody has been killed here etc and id think they will apply for their full license quick enough now.

If they said they'd pay give them the chance.

Pkiernan

smelly sock wrote: »

Give the learner a chance to front up the cost out of theur pocket first. Was it a youngster?

Listen we all have made mistakes on the road. A claim like this will follow them around for 10 years.

Nobody has been killed here etc and id think they will apply for their full license quick enough now.

If they said they'd pay give them the chance.

It's this attitude that increases the problem.

Ah...hear...it'll be grand....

smelly sock

Pkiernan wrote: »

It's this attitude that increases the problem.

Ah...hear...it'll be grand....

Empathy?

Its been done this way before amd worked out fine.

Yours is the typical "hang them from the yard arm" boards.ie robocop style attitude.

whomitconcerns

smelly sock wrote: »

Pkiernan wrote: »

It's this attitude that increases the problem.

Ah...hear...it'll be grand....

Empathy?

Its been done this way before amd worked out fine.

Yours is the typical "hang them from the yard arm" boards.ie robocop style attitude.

A chance? They hit the op with enough force to make the car undriveable. They ignored multiple breaches of the law. The repair bill will probably be over 10k as it's a new car. And if they can afford that, it will be mammy and daddy paying so they will learn nothing anyway...

So nope...

smelly sock

whomitconcerns wrote: »

A chance? They hit the op with enough force to make the car undriveable. They ignored multiple breaches of the law. The repair bill will probably be over 10k as it's a new car. And if they can afford that, it will be mammy and daddy paying so they will learn nothing anyway...

So nope...

If its that much then more than likely it will go through insurance so wheres the harm in giving the learner a chance to pay it?

I love Sean nos

smelly sock wrote: »

Give the learner a chance to front up the cost out of theur pocket first. Was it a youngster?

Listen we all have made mistakes on the road. A claim like this will follow them around for 10 years.

Nobody has been killed here etc and id think they will apply for their full license quick enough now.

If they said they'd pay give them the chance.

This is terrible advice.

smelly sock

I love Sean nos wrote: »

This is terrible advice.

Why?

degsie

smelly sock wrote: »

Empathy?

Its been done this way before amd worked out fine.

Yours is the typical "hang them from the yard arm" boards.ie robocop style attitude.

Empathy you say...

Learner driver was uninsured, unaccompanied AND caused an accident.

Let them hang indeed.

smelly sock

degsie wrote: »

Empathy you say...

Learner driver was uninsured, unaccompanied AND caused an accident.

Let them hang indeed.

The learner was insured to cover third party costs.

So they were fully insured to be on the road.

I love Sean nos

smelly sock wrote: »

Why?

Already answered earlier in the thread. The OP gets:

I love Sean nos wrote: »

No benefit. Just risk.

smelly sock

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Already answered earlier in the thread. The OP gets:

What risk? When quote is presented if offender refuses to pay then go through insurance.

Sue Pa Key Pa

You have up to 2 years to notify the 3rd party of your intention to claim for injuries, should you start to show symptoms. If you settle this privately and the 3rd party has failed to notify her insurer, it will get messy and protracted. You would still be compensated at the end of the day, though.

In my experience, even for damage only, the 3rd party will try and stiff you when the invoice arrives, let alone your additional losses such as car hire and depreciation. Their story on what happened often changes from the safety of their home.

Bottom line is it rarely works out well for either side

I love Sean nos

smelly sock wrote: »

What risk? When quote is presented if offender refuses to pay then go through insurance.

There is no benefit to the OP. They get nothing more from avoiding the insurance route.
The risk to the OP is that the process takes longer than it should, they get messed about with promises made but never honoured. They're then without their vehicle for longer, they don't get a replacement car while their own is being repaired.
It's strange that you don't understand all of the above.

Claim against their insurance company OP. Right now.

smelly sock

I love Sean nos wrote: »

There is no benefit to the OP. They get nothing more from avoiding the insurance route.
The risk to the OP is that the process takes longer than it should, they get messed about with promises made but never honoured. They're then without their vehicle for longer, they don't get a replacement car while their own is being repaired.
It's strange that you don't understand all of the above.

Claim against their insurance company OP. Right now.

Thats true.

Sue Pa Key Pa

smelly sock wrote: »

The learner was insured to cover third party costs.

So they were fully insured to be on the road.

The learner breached their policy conditions. The insurer being obliged to compensate innocent 3rd parties is different to them being insured

smelly sock

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

The learner breached their policy conditions. The insurer being obliged to compensate innocent 3rd parties is different to them being insured

You said they were uninsured? Thays simply not true.

If they were uninsured the insurance provider would literally laugh at the claim.

GoldFour4

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

The learner breached their policy conditions. The insurer being obliged to compensate innocent 3rd parties is different to them being insured

No. This isn't what will happen. This is straight forward really.

The learners insurance company will deal with the cost of repairing the OP's car. They will then notify the learner that "we have have paid €x as a result of the incident". This will then be followed up by an effort to recoup this amount off the learner.

They will accept a payment plan even if it is only €20 a week so long as it is paid.

Really unfortunate situation for the learner to be in but those are the rules of the road. His premium will enormous next year if he is even covered at all

Effects

smelly sock wrote: »

If its that much then more than likely it will go through insurance so wheres the harm in giving the learner a chance to pay it?

What's the point in giving someone a chance to do something they can't do?

mickdw

There is an obligation on insurance company to pay other party claims once a policy is in force. So the driver could have told lies in obtaining cover and be breaking every condition of their policy yet insurer must pay other party. This is not the same as being insured, and as stated earlier the insurer can seek to recover this cost from their client. I would imagine in the case of a wealthy car owner who let their child off driving unaccompanied, recovery of costs would take place.
This is not the same as being insured. For other parties it is but for the person that driving unaccompanied, there can be big trouble.

Sue Pa Key Pa

malistheman wrote: »

No. This isn't what will happen. This is straight forward really.

The learners insurance company will deal with the cost of repairing the OP's car. They will then notify the learner that "we have have paid €x as a result of the incident". This will then be followed up by an effort to recoup this amount off the learner.

They will accept a payment plan even if it is only €20 a week so long as it is paid.

Really unfortunate situation for the learner to be in but those are the rules of the road. His premium will enormous next year if he is even covered at all

That has nothing to do with my post and rarely happens. Also, if the driver was correctly 'insured', the insurance company would have no right to seek recovery from them. Obligations to compensate the 3rd party and being fully insured are separate things

smelly sock

malistheman wrote: »

No. This isn't what will happen. This is straight forward really.

The learners insurance company will deal with the cost of repairing the OP's car. They will then notify the learner that "we have have paid €x as a result of the incident". This will then be followed up by an effort to recoup this amount off the learner.

They will accept a payment plan even if it is only €20 a week so long as it is paid.

Really unfortunate situation for the learner to be in but those are the rules of the road. His premium will enormous next year if he is even covered at all

Untrue also. Is there a garda report etc? Anything from a witness to say the learner wad unaccompanied? I 100% guarantee the insurer will pay out. Depending on the t&cs of the policy then regarding learner permit and driving unaccompanied.

sunnysoutheast

OP - Just claim off the other driver's insurance. If they've breached their Ts & Cs by driving unaccompanied that's their problem not yours.

Diminution in value alone on a repaired 171 will run into thousands I'd say.

Sue Pa Key Pa

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

OP - Just claim off the other driver's insurance. If they've breached their Ts & Cs by driving unaccompanied that's their problem not yours.

Diminution in value alone on a repaired 171 will run into thousands I'd say.

Depreciation is a % of the repair cost. A 171 might warrant 15-20%

mgbgt1978

ba_barabus wrote: »

It's a pretty straight forward case and the OP is legally protected.

There's no dispute currently.

How is the Op "legally protected" ? If you mean that his insurer will cover any legal costs associated with this incident, then the OP makes no reference to this. If you simply mean that he is not at fault, then say so ?
I suggested the OP use a Solicitor to aid his claim against the other driver's Insurer simply because they will drag it on for as long as possible if they know he is the only one they have to deal with.
He hadn't a clue about depreciation to his vehicle. What else is he entitled to claim for that he is unaware of ? Nobody here has given him any information regarding his entitlements, so a quick consultation with a Solicitor will make him aware of what exactly he is entitled to claim for and how to speed up the process.
TBH with a fairly new Car it will be the best €100 or so he will spend. Any further legal fees (after the initial consultation) will be included with the claim

.

Pkiernan

A new car rendered undriveable by someone who chose to ignore the very law designed to prevent this type of accident.

How some of the lefties on here can let that go is beyond me.

OP if you haven't informed the Guards already you'll probably find that a licensed family member will miracously appear.

Lukker-

Pkiernan wrote: »

A new car rendered undriveable by someone who chose to ignore the very law designed to prevent this type of accident.

How some of the lefties on here can let that go is beyond me.

OP if you haven't informed the Guards already you'll probably find that a licensed family member will miracously appear.

Dafuq does that have to do with anything?

How to delegitimize your posts 101, bring identity politics into an incident that is totally unrelated

tipperary

Thanks all for the replies. Guards were called at the time and penalty points applied for driving unaccompanied. Current plan is to proceed through my own insurance and let them chase the costs from the other insurer/mibi.

Sue Pa Key Pa

tipperary wrote: »

Thanks all for the replies. Guards were called at the time and penalty points applied for driving unaccompanied. Current plan is to proceed through my own insurance and let them chase the costs from the other insurer/mibi.

Don't forget that your own insurer will apply the policy excess and won't compensate you for your uninsured losses, such as depreciation. Most good insurers will include these items on your behalf as part of their recovery from the 3rd party, but they don't have to. Check this with them.

As someone who recently went through the licencing process don't do them any favours. I've done everything by the book while seeing dozens (at least) daily of people going around with L plates. It's people who don't do things by the book that make it worse for those of us who do.

smelly sock

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As someone who recently went through the licencing process don't do them any favours. I've done everything by the book while seeing dozens (at least) daily of people going around with L plates. It's people who don't do things by the book that make it worse for those of us who do.

Possibly a person sharing a car with an L driver though. Dont worry about anyone else either.

smelly sock

smelly sock wrote: »

Possibly a person sharing a car with an L driver though. Dont worry about anyone else either.

Students and people working in a particular company. I know tonnes are on a provisional. And I will worry about people breaking the law making things harder and more expensive for me, thanks.

forumuser

tipperary wrote: »

Thanks all for the replies. Guards were called at the time and penalty points applied for driving unaccompanied. Current plan is to proceed through my own insurance and let them chase the costs from the other insurer/mibi.

I'm just coming out the other end of an insurance claim after being rearended. Other party admitted liability and their insurer dealt with everything.
If you have the other parties insurance details why not contact their insurer in the morning? I don't see the benefit of using your own insurance when you weren't at fault.

smelly sock

forumuser wrote: »

I'm just coming out the other end of an insurance claim after being rearended. Other party admitted liability and their insurer dealt with everything.
If you have the other parties insurance details why not contact their insurer in the morning? I don't see the benefit of using your own insurance when you weren't at fault.

You are obliged to notify your own insurer.

Lantus

smelly sock wrote:

You are obliged to notify your own insurer.

Yes, but you don't need to run the claim through them? You can claim direct off the other insurer. Extent of damage may warrant medical and legal input to ensure correct settlement?

Caliden

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it possible to notify their insurance of the accident and then the person can choose to pay the full bill themselves or let insurance cover it?

i.e. There's no benefit to NOT informing the insurance company.

endacl

smelly sock wrote: »

What risk? When quote is presented if offender refuses to pay then go through insurance.

They can always repay their insurance company. Helps avoid the “That seems a bit steep. Would you accept €X?”, and “My mechanic knows a guy who’ll do it for €Y”.

I’ve been in the position. Dealing with the other party is not only a hassle, it’s a hassle that was imposed. So I chose not to. Car repaired by a garage of my choosing, at the price they charge.

Graham

smelly sock wrote: »

Possibly a person sharing a car with an L driver though. Dont worry about anyone else either.

In which case the other person would have been aware of the risks of sharing a car with an unqualified driver. Certainly not an issue the OP should be expected to consider.

forumuser

smelly sock wrote: »

You are obliged to notify your own insurer.

Of course but that doesn't mean you need to process the claim through them.

Lantus

endacl wrote:

They can always repay their insurance company. Helps avoid the “That seems a bit steep. Would you accept €X?â€, and “My mechanic knows a guy who’ll do it for €Yâ€.

endacl wrote:

I’ve been in the position. Dealing with the other party is not only a hassle, it’s a hassle that was imposed. So I chose not to. Car repaired by a garage of my choosing, at the price they charge.

They may say it's a bit steep if they are down to earth with good knowledge of cars. My experience from trying to be nice is the other person became aggressive, angry and threatening once the repair cost was revealed. They demanded that a guy in some alley just do a quick fix up for a few quid. Horrible experience and thankfully once we had their insurance details process was much easier.