1890 numbers - why no landline alternative obligation?

Dinarius

It's 2017.

No one(!) pays for individual calls anymore if there even remotely tech-savvy and consumer aware.

Why is there not a law stating that a business (or whatever) providing a 1890/1850/0818 contact number MUST provide a landline alternative?

How hard can it be?

D.

SmartinMartin

This is a handy site;

http://www.saynoto1890.com/a-z-listing/

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

SmartinMartin wrote: »

This is a handy site;

http://www.saynoto1890.com/a-z-listing/

I use that quite a bit but it doesn't address the issue and by no means lists all companies. The era of 1890 etc. should be long gone.

fernrock

If you look up the number to be called from overseas, it is usually an 01 number. That is what I use when nothing available on say no to 1890.

Dinarius

fernrock wrote: »

If you look up the number to be called from overseas it is usually an 01 number. That is what i use when nothing available on say no to 1890.

You're absolutely correct and that's always the first thing I do.

If you can find it on Aer Lingus' website, let me know!.

Thanks.

D.

ANXIOUS

Dinarius wrote: »

You're absolutely correct and I that's always the first thing I do.

If you can find it on Aer Lingus' website, let me know!.

Thanks.

D.

(01) 886 8505

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ANXIOUS wrote: »

(01) 886 8505

That's the Website Helpdesk, not the Aer Lingus customer support the OP needed.

Slippin Jimmy

I know a lot of people complain about Skys premium number. They have a free phone number hidden on their website. It's 1800927476.

Cabaal

Slippin Jimmy wrote: »

I know a lot of people complain about Skys premium number. They have a free phone number hidden on their website. It's 1800927476.

Sky;s number is free if you do happen to have a Sky landline...handy for the broadband users

coylemj

As above, check the company website for a number to call from outside Ireland, it will be of the form '+353 xxxxx', that's a regular landline number with an area code. Failing that, take a look at http://www.saynoto1890.com/a-z-listing/

If you still can't find a number, e-mail them, say you're out of the country and you can't use their 1890 number, ask for a landline number.

Update: Comreg have put this topic out for discussion and public submissions, it looks like they're determined to put an end to it. 'NGN' stands for non-geographic numbers.

Our consultation paper on NGN numbers proposes two measures which seek to address the current perceived problems with the NGN platform. The first proposal is to link NGN calls to equivalent calls to “Geographic Numbers” (e.g. “01” Dublin or “021” Cork) for the purposes of pricing. The second proposal is to reduce the total number of NGN ranges from five to two, by retaining the 1800 and 0818 ranges and removing the 1850, 1890, and 076 ranges over a transition period of 2-3 years.

ComReg invites and welcomes the views of all interested parties and will consider all responses to this consultation. Chapter 7 sets out how to respond to this consultation and please note that consultation period will run until 5pm on 12 October 2017.

https://www.comreg.ie/comreg-consults-non-geographic-numbers/

guil

Cabaal wrote: »

Sky;s number is free if you do happen to have a Sky landline...handy for the broadband users

It's also free on Vodafone mobiles. Both bill pay and pre pay.

GIMP

Any chance where you found this out 0818 calls from your bundle Vodafone minutes?

Dinarius

coylemj wrote: »

As above, check the company website for a number to call from outside Ireland, it will be of the form '+353 xxxxx', that's a regular landline number with an area code. Failing that, take a look at http://www.saynoto1890.com/a-z-listing/

If you still can't find a number, e-mail them, say you're out of the country and you can't use their 1890 number, ask for a landline number.

Update: Comreg have put this topic out for discussion and public submissions, it looks like they're determined to put an end to it. 'NGN' stands for non-geographic numbers.

Our consultation paper on NGN numbers proposes two measures which seek to address the current perceived problems with the NGN platform. The first proposal is to link NGN calls to equivalent calls to “Geographic Numbers” (e.g. “01” Dublin or “021” Cork) for the purposes of pricing. The second proposal is to reduce the total number of NGN ranges from five to two, by retaining the 1800 and 0818 ranges and removing the 1850, 1890, and 076 ranges over a transition period of 2-3 years.

ComReg invites and welcomes the views of all interested parties and will consider all responses to this consultation. Chapter 7 sets out how to respond to this consultation and please note that consultation period will run until 5pm on 12 October 2017.

https://www.comreg.ie/comreg-consults-non-geographic-numbers/

Just one comment: wouldn't it be easier to pass a law stating that a landline number option is *obligatory* in all contact details provided, and let them keep 1890/1850 etc. in addition, if they wished to?

Not sure I see the point of inviting comments. From the consumers' point of view, are there not two options only; landline and 1800?

Thanks.

D.

matt-dublin

It would actually be easier for them to treat the 1890 number as a national phone number, which should be covered under most phone packages now.

endofrainbow

It's the 076 numbers that annoy me

guil

GIMP wrote: »

Any chance where you found this out 0818 calls from your bundle Vodafone minutes?

Just noticed that I was never charged for them when I was on bill and now on prepay I can make the same calls with no credit.

AndrewJRenko

Dinarius wrote: »

Not sure I see the point of inviting comments.

The point is that you get the share your suggestion to those who make the rules;

Just one comment: wouldn't it be easier to pass a law stating that a landline number option is *obligatory* in all contact details provided, and let them keep 1890/1850 etc. in addition, if they wished to

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The point is that you get the share your suggestion to those who make the rules;

A blind man on a galloping horse could see that 1890/1850 are a bum deal for the consumer. Not included in bundles and therefore costing more than geographic numbers - no longer the Lo-call they were designed to be. They hardly need suggestions or input to realise that glaring and well known fact of life.

AndrewJRenko

Sam Obedient Snotty wrote: »

A blind man on a galloping horse could see that 1890/1850 are a bum deal for the consumer. Not included in bundles and therefore costing more than geographic numbers - no longer the Lo-call they were designed to be. They hardly need suggestions or input to realise that glaring and well known fact of life.

Which is probably why their proposal is to phase them out.

SCOOP 64

guil wrote: »

It's also free on Vodafone mobiles. Both bill pay and pre pay.

Wish id know that the other day on hold trying to cancel sky.

Dinarius

Sam Obedient Snotty wrote: »

A blind man on a galloping horse could see that 1890/1850 are a bum deal for the consumer. Not included in bundles and therefore costing more than geographic numbers - no longer the Lo-call they were designed to be. They hardly need suggestions or input to realise that glaring and well known fact of life.

Precisely.

If there really is a need to phase them out over two to three years then, in the meantime, why not introduce a law stating that as of, say, June 1st 2018, a landline alternative is obligatory. Simple, no?

It is screamingly obvious that 1850/1890 are a scam. Comreg shouldn't have to ask for any views on them. They served a function once for many people, but no longer.

More of the kicking-to-touch (Garda Commissioner replacement) this country is plagued with?

Are certain vested interests being protected here?

D.

L1011

Comreg is funded by operators fees and is slow to force changes affecting them. Most premium rate services have no justification to be yet far from increasing regulation, they have created a surreal easy operating environment for them

Similarly the BAI is funded by broadcasters and is unwilling to upset or even enforce the basis of licences. Being funded by a small pool always causes trouble.

AngryLips

This issue is currently under review, I'm just going to leave this here https://www.comreg.ie/comreg-consults-non-geographic-numbers/

davyboy1975

Dinarius wrote: »

You're absolutely correct and that's always the first thing I do.

If you can find it on Aer Lingus' website, let me know!.

Thanks.

D.

018868989

AndrewJRenko

Dinarius wrote: »

Precisely.

If there really is a need to phase them out over two to three years then, in the meantime, why not introduce a law stating that as of, say, June 1st 2018, a landline alternative is obligatory. Simple, no?

It is screamingly obvious that 1850/1890 are a scam. Comreg shouldn't have to ask for any views on them. They served a function once for many people, but no longer.

More of the kicking-to-touch (Garda Commissioner replacement) this country is plagued with?

Are certain vested interests being protected here?

D.

Here's a mad idea - make your opinions on the issue known to the people who matter (ComReg) rather than to the people who don't (Boards.ie readers).

coylemj

AngryLips wrote: »

This issue is currently under review, I'm just going to leave this here https://www.comreg.ie/comreg-consults-non-geographic-numbers/

That's very kind of you but you clearly missed post #10.

fernrock

Slippin Jimmy wrote: »

I know a lot of people complain about Skys premium number. They have a free phone number hidden on their website. It's 1800927476.

I have posted this number to say no to 1890.

Slippin Jimmy

fernrock wrote: »

I have posted this number to say no to 1890.

Sorry?

Edit:

It took a minute but I know what you meant now. Damn beer

Dinarius

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Here's a mad idea - make your opinions on the issue known to the people who matter (ComReg) rather than to the people who don't (Boards.ie readers).

Here's an even madder idea:

About 99.9% of what's posted on Boards.ie is people expressing views that could otherwise be made "...known to people who matter..." and, guess what, maybe some of them do both.

One of the main points of the likes of boards.ie is to air and debate arguments, in order to evaluate their validity, before taking them to the next level.

A bit less of the screamingly obvious might be more helpful to the debate.

D.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Bird Gais tell you to ring 1850 number if you smell gas. Surely it should be 1800 free number. What if someone has no credit.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Bird Gais tell you to ring 1850 number if you smell gas. Surely it should be 1800 free number. What if someone has no credit.

It's the same for ESB Networks for fallen electricity lines, although you can call 0212382410 or 0214947260 which they don't advertise.

AndrewJRenko

Dinarius wrote: »

Here's an even madder idea:

About 99.9% of what's posted on Boards.ie is people expressing views that could otherwise be made "...known to people who matter..." and, guess what, maybe some of them do both.

One of the main points of the likes of boards.ie is to air and debate arguments, in order to evaluate their validity, before taking them to the next level.

A bit less of the screamingly obvious might be more helpful to the debate.

D.

True, though in fairness, 99.9% of what's posted on Boards.ie don't have currently open public consultations with the relevant regulator. It is your one chance in a generation to have your voice heard. Take it or leave it.

BoatMad

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

True, though in fairness, 99.9% of what's posted on Boards.ie don't have currently open public consultations with the relevant regulator. It is your one chance in a generation to have your voice heard. Take it or leave it.

I made my submission , thanks for the pointers

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

coylemj

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

+1 it's all about making money from routine customer calls but another aspect of it is that by making sure that the customer is paying by the minute, it keeps the call short and thus they can have a reduced number of call agents.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

We've all had a chat at some stage with Ravi in Bangalore so I'm pretty sure most people know that simply ringing an (01) number doesn't guarantee that the person you end up speaking to is in Dublin.

Dinarius

UK Minister up before a parliamentary committee this morning regarding a similar situation there. People seeking some form of state aid being charged £0.55 per minute when phoning to enquire.

Uproar regarding the call charge.

Do they need to invite submissions from interested parties about the screamingly obvious? Of course not. Whatever we may think about them, the Brits do accountability better than we do.

A free phone number will be introduced for the service "by ministerial order", from next month.

I despair.

D.

L1011

Dinarius wrote: »

UK Minister up before a parliamentary committee this morning regarding a similar situation there. People seeking some form of state aid being charged £0.55 per minute when phoning to enquire.

Uproar regarding the call charge.

Do they need to invite submissions from interested parties about the screamingly obvious? Of course not. Whatever we may think about them, the Brits do accountability better than we do.

A free phone number will be introduced for the service "by ministerial order", from next month.

I despair.

D.

Unless you can identify an equivalent service here with an equivalent charge your specific comparison is baseless and pointless.

I suspect you aren't going to be able to.

Dinarius

L1011 wrote: »

Unless you can identify an equivalent service here with an equivalent charge your specific comparison is baseless and pointless.

I suspect you aren't going to be able to.

This has precisely zip to do with equivalence and everything to do with principle.

With respect, your reply is baseless and missing the point entirely.

D.

elperello

L1011 wrote: »

Unless you can identify an equivalent service here with an equivalent charge your specific comparison is baseless and pointless.

I suspect you aren't going to be able to.

You need to get out on the street.
Old,poor and vulnerable people are being cleaned out of credit by these numbers while the regulator sits on his hands.

Peregrinus

No, there is an equivalence isuse. As a matter of principle, people shouldn't be charged by the minute for accessing governments services to discuss their legal entitlements and obligations. No similar principle applies to accessing commercial organisations to talk about the goods and services that they sell or wish to sell to you. Business aren't obliged to sell or deal over the phone at all if they don't want to, and if they alienate customers or potential customers by not doing so, or by doing so only at exorbitant rates, the customers have the remedy in their own hands. If the practice is sufficiently objectionable to sufficiently many actual or potential customers, the businesses will abandon it. But citizens don't have the same option to vote with their feet when dealing with government agencies.

L1011

elperello wrote: »

You need to get out on the street.
Old,poor and vulnerable people are being cleaned out of credit by these numbers while the regulator sits on his hands.

The regulator are having a consultation process as they are required to do.

The 'example' given by Dinarius does not even involve the regulator; and is for a service that all equivalents in Ireland are geographical or 1800.

etselbbuns

L1011 wrote: »

Unless you can identify an equivalent service here with an equivalent charge your specific comparison is baseless and pointless.
I suspect you aren't going to be able to.

Well there are 076 numbers.
..usually charged at the same rate as if you were calling a national landline number…. but 076 Calls are Not Included in most provider’s Bundles
Calls to 076 cost 35cpm from mobiles

In 2011 a block of 200,000 “076” numbers were allocated to the public service.
SUSI, Insolvency Service of Ireland, HSE Dublin labs, CIC are 076 only for users.

L1011

etselbbuns wrote: »

Well there are 076 numbers.
..usually charged at the same rate as if you were calling a national landline number…. but 076 Calls are Not Included in most provider’s Bundles
Calls to 076 cost 35cpm from mobiles

In 2011 a block of 200,000 “076” numbers were allocated to the public service.
SUSI, Insolvency Service of Ireland, CIC are 076 only for users.

Which providers don't include these in bundles?

076 are usually considered local or cheaper than local as they are VOIP - not national rate.

Quick google finds one, unsourced page giving the 35c/minute for some operators but that isn't backed up by those operators actual charging lists; so its not a valid source.

etselbbuns

L1011 wrote: »

Which providers don't include these in bundles?

076 are usually considered local or cheaper than local as they are VOIP - not national rate.

Quick google finds one, unsourced page giving the 35c/minute for some operators but that isn't backed up by those operators actual charging lists; so its not a valid source.

Three, Vodafone, Eir, Tescomobile, IdMobile..

L1011

etselbbuns wrote: »

Three, Vodafone, Eir, Tescomobile, IdMobile..

Can you provide proof of this that isn't the 'moneyguideireland' page that is riddled with errors?

Dinarius

Peregrinus wrote: »

No, there is an equivalence isuse. As a matter of principle, people shouldn't be charged by the minute for accessing governments services to discuss their legal entitlements and obligations. No similar principle applies to accessing commercial organisations to talk about the goods and services that they sell or wish to sell to you. Business aren't obliged to sell or deal over the phone at all if they don't want to, and if they alienate customers or potential customers by not doing so, or by doing so only at exorbitant rates, the customers have the remedy in their own hands. If the practice is sufficiently objectionable to sufficiently many actual or potential customers, the businesses will abandon it. But citizens don't have the same option to vote with their feet when dealing with government agencies.

And citizens have the option to "vote with their feet" when, for example, being restricted to having to deal with two or three airlines in a given market, all using premium line numbers? Take your argument to its logical conclusion, and we're back to taking the car ferry.

Forget the cost of 1850/1890; I don't care if they charge €10/minute for using them, as long as they're obliged to provide a landline alternative. That does not, in my view, require submissions from interested parties. It's simply obvious. Couldn't a blanket regulation be introduced to that effect? I fail to see why not.

D.

L1011

Dinarius wrote: »

And citizens have the option to "vote with their feet" when, for example, being restricted to having to deal with two or three airlines in a given market, all using premium line numbers? Take your argument to its logical conclusion, and we're back to taking the car ferry.

Forget the cost of 1850/1890; I don't care if they charge €10/minute for using them, as long as they're obliged to provide a landline alternative. That does not, in my view, require submissions from interested parties. It's simply obvious. Couldn't a blanket regulation be introduced to that effect? I fail to see why not.

D.

Legally, it requires consultation. A blanket regulation can be introduced after consultation.

Have you made a submission to the consultation?

etselbbuns

L1011 wrote: »

Can you provide proof of this that isn't the 'moneyguideireland' page that is riddled with errors?

Tescomobile - 076 Numbers (Voice and IP Numbers):
Charged at the per minute rate appropriate to your price plan, for national calls to Irish landlines (does not avail of inclusive minutes).
Eir - voip numbers
IDmobile - 35c
etc

elperello

L1011 wrote: »

Legally, it requires consultation. A blanket regulation can be introduced after consultation.

Have you made a submission to the consultation?

Understand the process but my point was that these numbers have been used to rip off consumers for years.
Even if they are curtailed after consultation I for one will not be rushing to praise comreg.

L1011

etselbbuns wrote: »

Tescomobile - 076 Numbers (Voice and IP Numbers):
Charged at the per minute rate appropriate to your price plan, for national calls to Irish landlines (does not avail of inclusive minutes).
Eir - voip numbers
IDmobile - 35c
etc

Eir one does not say that they are not allowed from bundle, seeing as they're in a price list of what you get charged for going out of bundle (national calls being in their bundles) at that.

The other two are low-rent MVNOs. Does suggest regulation is required though.

guil

etselbbuns wrote: »

Three, Vodafone, Eir, Tescomobile, IdMobile..

I'm with Vodafone and on both bill pay and prepay I've never been charged for 076 calls.