Target shooting with rifle while not on an authorised range

gunny123

Sparks wrote: »

That specific person has the legal authority to enter the field (or house or car or hovercraft or anywhere, basically) at any time without a warrant and conduct a search.
I mean, if the local Garda caught you, that'd do as well, but we were talking about a hypothetical where you were on your own property, which AGS can't just rock up and search without a warrant (they can verify your firearm is there if that's where you said you'd store it, but that's not the same thing and I'm omitting it for the hypothetical).

I thought one of the duties of government was to ensure that powers like being able to enter premises, lands and peoples private homes without a warrant, is restricted to instances where it is absolutely necessary ? A lad doing a bit of plinking on his own private land, is hardly the end of the world.

cavan shooter

I suppose if the gardai where going to do anything id hazard a guess it would be along the line of something a bit more solid like reckless discharge of a firearm which if my memory serves me well is based on the opinion of the enforcing officer.  Now the enforcing officer in formulating his opinion will have to go through the usual proofs around "forming an opinion".
When he went to court the prima facae of the case will need to be proved beyond reasonably doubt, then the defence will need to try put in the doubt....I think we need to lobby our associations for clarity on the matter and lobby for clear direction.  BTW how much is it to zero a rifle in a range, and will they let you zero centre fires, most ranges I frequent only allow rimfire.

cavan shooter

gunny123 wrote: »

Sparks wrote: »

That specific person has the legal authority to enter the field (or house or car or hovercraft or anywhere, basically) at any time without a warrant and conduct a search.
I mean, if the local Garda caught you, that'd do as well, but we were talking about a hypothetical where you were on your own property, which AGS can't just rock up and search without a warrant (they can verify your firearm is there if that's where you said you'd store it, but that's not the same thing and I'm omitting it for the hypothetical).

I thought one of the duties of government was to ensure that powers like being able to enter premises, lands and peoples private homes without a warrant, is restricted to instances where it is absolutely necessary ? A lad doing a bit of plinking on his own private land, is hardly the end of the world.

Again if I remember right a Guard can enter without warrant where he is of the opinion a crime is being or will be committed.  Is bona fides' will be tested by any defence and the DPP when the file is submitted.

Sparks

gunny123 wrote: »

I thought one of the duties of government was to ensure that powers like being able to enter premises, lands and peoples private homes without a warrant, is restricted to instances where it is absolutely necessary ? A lad doing a bit of plinking on his own private land, is hardly the end of the world.

As was noted at the time, but apparently McDowell didn't hold with that idea.

Grizzly 45

cavan shooter wrote: »

The way you lot are going there will be a complaint lodged by the Sports Coalition against ye to the guards for illegal activities....be careful  :angel:

THAT would be just too funny considering there quite a few sinners sitting in the ranks of that organisation. Let those without guilt live in greenhouses and cast stones...Or somthin...

Grizzly 45

cavan shooter wrote: »

Again if I remember right a Guard can enter without warrant where he is of the opinion a crime is being or will be committed.  Is bona fides' will be tested by any defence and the DPP when the file is submitted.

Taken from a boards.ie legal thread on the subject.


section 6 (2) Criminal Law Act 1997:
(2) For the purpose of arresting a person without a warrant for an arrestable offence a member of the Garda Síochána may enter (if need be, by use of reasonable force) and search any premises (including a dwelling) where that person is or where the member, with reasonable cause, suspects that person to be, and where the premises is a dwelling the member shall not, unless acting with the consent of an occupier of the dwelling or other person who appears to the member to be in charge of the dwelling, enter that dwelling unless—
( a ) he or she or another such member has observed the person within or entering the dwelling, or
( b ) he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that before a warrant of arrest could be obtained the person will either abscond for the purpose of avoiding justice or will obstruct the course of justice, or
( c ) he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that before a warrant of arrest could be obtained the person would commit an arrestable offence, or
( d ) the person ordinarily resides at that dwelling


Constitution Art: 40.5

The Constitution (Bunreacht na hÉireann) declares that the dwelling of a citizen in Ireland is inviolable and shall not be entered forcibly except in accordance with the law. This means that no one, including the Gardai (Irish police force), may enter the place where you live without a warrant or other legal authority to enter.

If you are arrested as a result of an unlawful entry into your home, your arrest is illegal. Evidence obtained as a result of an unlawful entry onto your dwelling is inadmissible in court.

Your right to inviolability of dwelling is set down in Article 40.5 of the Constitution.




here's three ways a Garda can enter into a private dwelling:

1. The occupant allows him/her to enter

2. The Garda has a warrant authorising him/her to search a named property and any persons found there

3. There is provision for a Garda to enter a private dwelling without a warrant (by force if necessary) if it's apparent that a person's safety (for example an assault is occuring)** is at risk or that there is evidence (for example drugs) on the property and there is a real risk that that evidence will be destroyed unless it can be seized there and then.

Now to answer your Q if the two coppers that you allowed in are there by invitation only (points 2 & 3 dont apply) you can at any time ask that they leave and they of course must. They have the same status as any other person that you allow into your home, if you invite somebody in you can obviously ask that they leave at any time.

If they are in your private dwelling by invitation and they see/find anything illegal (for example a tonne bag of coke on the coffee table) they are within their right to seize it and arrest you.


So this does raise quite a few intresting legal points about all this legislation on constitutional and statue.As usual the only way to sort it out would be in a court.:(

** That apparently can apply can apply too to any member of the public if they have good reason to believe a persons life is endangered.IE rescuing someone from a burning building. While not on property, the two lads out lamping foxes who rescued the rape victim in Co Clare a few years ago would be a CIP.

Sparks

This means that no one, including the Gardai (Irish police force), may enter the place where you live without a warrant or other legal authority to enter.

Just remember that for the FRI, "other legal authority" is set forth by the Firearms Act and isn't applying to an AGS member but completely seperate category. And we did raise it in the Dail at the time and it was discussed in the second stage of debate explicitly so the "this was merely an accident of drafting and shouldn't be interpreted this way" line would be difficult to hold to in court.

(For AGS and others, obviously, the above does hold water)

gunny123

Sparks wrote: »

As was noted at the time, but apparently McDowell didn't hold with that idea.

To be honest that surprises me, i'd have thought McDowell would be very against the notion of the gardai being able to enter houses without a warrant, on a fishing expedition.

Sparks

No, by that point he'd done his about-face on his whole "bring AGS to heel" election mantra. Mind you, the FRI wasn't required to be in AGS (I think they had a civil servant model in mind from the get-go).