Worth becoming a pilot?

smurfjed

I started 9 years ago.. been in 5 European countries then the Middle East back to Europe for a little while then china.

So have you worked for 3 companies or 7? Either way it seems excessive for 9 years, so what are you seeking with a company that you haven't managed to find in Europe/Middle East or China?
I would hazard a guess that about 80% of my colleagues do not "love" flying, I will even say that there are a few who appear scared of it. But in this part of the world it's an extremely well paid job compared to the majority of ground jobs and it still pays a 100% final salary pension after 40 years.
If you have the money, then go for it, watching sunrise at 45,000 feet beats most views from an office block.

Dingle_berry

How many hours is the minimum for obtaining a ME, IR and CPL? And how much of this could be done in a simulator?

E.g. for a PPL you need a minimum of 45 hours, of which 10 must be solo including a cross country as well as 100hours groundschool?

martinsvi

Dingle_berry wrote: »

How many hours is the minimum for obtaining a ME, IR and CPL? And how much of this could be done in a simulator?

E.g. for a PPL you need a minimum of 45 hours, of which 10 must be solo including a cross country as well as 100hours groundschool?

I come in peace, don't mean no harm (saying this I just try to swhoosh away the regulars who keep relieving themselves on my posts), here's the book, read it - https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/Part-FCL.pdf

generally for the CPL - 100 PIC hours are required, 200tt, only 5 can be claimed against a certified simulator.

Then you have MEP with 6 hours..

the IR is the tricky bit, depending how you do it, whether through SE-IR or UK-IMC or ME-IR straight away there could be different requirements.. If you are just starting up, all you need to know is that before you jump on to CPL/ME/IR training, although the required minima is 150 hours, you should really have about 165...

after that your school will set you up with whathever package works out for them and you - you could end up doing some 10 hours on sep/ir + 26 mep/ir +40 sim or 40 sim + 40 mep/ir.. like I said, it becomes a Lego.. if you're ever in doubt, just pop your schools offer in here and maybe someone here, obviously not me, but someone who actually knows how it's done in the "real life" will help you

Dingle_berry

martinsvi wrote: »

Why did I think that it could be straightforward?!! I'm just starting out and asking more out of curiosity than making a shopping list.

The part FCL (and part MED, etc) are they directly implemented by IAA or amended into irish law? What's the master document (part FCL, part MED and all other parts together = ?)

What's the manual on radio use called again?

martinsvi

Dingle_berry wrote: »

Why did I think that it could be straightforward?!! I'm just starting out and asking more out of curiosity than making a shopping list.

The part FCL (and part MED, etc) are they directly implemented by IAA or amended into irish law? What's the master document (part FCL, part MED and all other parts together = ?)

What's the manual on radio use called again?

well it actually is relatively straight forward, it just provides you with multiple options or routes.

Part FCL/MED etc are EASA regulations, they don't need to be amended into Irish law. You are getting an EASA licence, not Irish national license. IAA will issue EASA license according to EASA regulations.

There is no master document, each part just makes the regulation

Regarding the radio, you probably mean ICAO Doc 9432, however there are other, more user friendly documents out there, such as CAA's CAP413

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413v21_6.pdf

this one's a skinny version of what you need to know:
https://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/115.pdf

basill

In my opinion you would be mad to.

- most people don’t make it. Our last cadet intake we had over 3000 applications for a handful of jobs
- salaries are continually under downward pressure as are terms and conditions
- the hours are long and unsociable, expect to miss most important events and be working bank holidays and Xmas cos that’s the nature of the business
- you will spend upwards of 100k in the “hope”of a job which realistically you won’t get
- Tuesday and Wednesday are he new Friday and Saturday, unfornately this is no good for your mates who work in civvy world so expect to lose touch with them.
- the biggest employers of low houred inexperienced pilots out of flight school are Ryanair and Easyjet. Both require you to pay for a type rating in some shape or form. Same goes for Stobart.
- if you land a turbo prop gig then the salaries and terms and conditions are even worse.
- you won’t get leave when you want it as it will either be arbitrarily allocated by your employer or you will be at the bottom of a seniority list and have to wait for many years to climb the ladder.
- each year you get to do a medical and wonder if that’s gonna be it.

Save your money and all the heart ache. If you love aviation then take yourself off to the States and get a ppl and an instrument rating so you don’t kill yourself when the Irish weather inevitably turns to custard on you. Spend your money on a nice home built aircraft with a glass cockpit with all the mod cons.

Noxegon

basill wrote: »

- the hours are long and unsociable, expect to miss most important events and be working bank holidays and Xmas cos that’s the nature of the business

If you're based in Ireland you will at least have Christmas Day off (which is an anachronism unique to this country...)

martinsvi

speaking about terms and conditions going down, this is true for many industries not just aviation.. unsocial hours? It's funny actually, as a software engineer I have missed more Christmas'es and bank holidays than some of my pilot friends. When offices are closed, this is when customers want their infrastructure to be upgraded/migrated/patched.. you name it. Do I mind? No, 9 to 5 isn't really for me.

J.pilkington

@martinsvi. Great insights, thanks for sharing and best of luck finishing out your qualifications.

basill

Long haul pilots can and do miss Xmas day. They land on the 26th.

NewSigGuy

Sullysark wrote: »

Avoid Pprune, it's filled with disgruntled pilots.

And that didn't set off alarm bells....

smurfjed

And that didn't set off alarm bells....

They happy ones also post, but people prefer bad news and griping.

martinsvi

NewSigGuy wrote: »

And that didn't set off alarm bells....

I would question how many of the pessimists there are actual pilots and how many of them are just wannabies that keep recirculating stereotypes

smurfjed

To be fair, terms and conditions are rapidly diminishing in nearly all airlines, look at Emirates, 5-10 years ago they had people queuing up to join them as the ultimate airline, now they are having problems getting people. . Ethiopian are paying around $9000 per month for a B777 Captain, Norwegian I believe are paying even less for a B787 Captain.

The career certainly isn't what it used to be.

beauf

smurfjed wrote: »

...The career certainly isn't what it used to be..

While that is certainly true, a know a few pilots who thought the grass would be greener outside of flying and had a rude awakening when they tried to move to a job/career in the rat race.

smurfjed

But we still have the greatest office view in the world.

Candamir

smurfjed wrote: »

To be fair, terms and conditions are rapidly diminishing in nearly all airlines, look at Emirates, 5-10 years ago they had people queuing up to join them as the ultimate airline, now they are having problems getting people. . Ethiopian are paying around $9000 per month for a B777 Captain, Norwegian I believe are paying even less for a B787 Captain.

The career certainly isn't what it used to be.

An old one but a good one!

https://youtu.be/rNxz2hhSXuY

martinsvi

smurfjed wrote: »

To be fair, terms and conditions are rapidly diminishing in nearly all airlines, look at Emirates, 5-10 years ago they had people queuing up to join them as the ultimate airline, now they are having problems getting people. . Ethiopian are paying around $9000 per month for a B777 Captain, Norwegian I believe are paying even less for a B787 Captain.

The career certainly isn't what it used to be.

my condolences, have they tried claiming any benefits or social housing from Ethiopian government?

smurfjed

my condolences, have they tried claiming any benefits or social housing from Ethiopian government?

And you intend to become a commercial pilot?

martinsvi

smurfjed wrote: »

And you intend to become a commercial pilot?

lighten up, I'm joking.. of course I do wonder how does one spend 9k a month in Ethiopia, but I guess supply and demand dictates everything.. as long as there will be people signing up to this deal, they have no reason to improve it..

1123heavy

The ATPLs are a bit of a joke. You don't need any course materials to get 90% plus in the exams. Aviationexam costs 150eu and it has everything in it. You learn by doing the exam questions and get an idea of how the topic works by getting stuff wrong, reading the very good explanations they have and that's it. Know what you need to know, most of it we'll never even need anyway. Haven't touched my Bristol stuff since starting and have an average of 90% in all exams sat so far. It is not difficult whatsoever.

Negative_G

1123heavy wrote: »

The ATPLs are a bit of a joke. You don't need any course materials to get 90% plus in the exams. Aviationexam costs 150eu and it has everything in it. You learn by doing the exam questions and get an idea of how the topic works by getting stuff wrong, reading the very good explanations they have and that's it. Know what you need to know, most of it we'll never even need anyway. Haven't touched my Bristol stuff since starting and have an average of 90% in all exams sat so far. It is not difficult whatsoever.

A trained monkey can pass the ATPLs using the question banks.

There is a vast amount of useless information in many of the 14 subjects. Tech type and knowing company procedures and SOPs inside out are ultimately what will expose the pretenders.

1123heavy

Negative_G wrote: »

A trained monkey can pass the ATPLs using the question banks.

There is a vast amount of useless information in many of the 14 subjects. Tech type and knowing company procedures and SOPs inside out are ultimately what will expose the pretenders.

They are changing some of the exam questions at the moment but they still haven't taken out the useless stuff. I mean do we really need to know what side of the localiser transmits 150HZ and 90 HZ lobes

For the stuff they're taking out they're also adding in. I may be wrong but I just don't think it's being done properly ... but as a young student what do i know

The exam questions are still based on maps and airport charts from the early-mid 1990s, reason being is that the questions based on this topic are about 20 years old

Negative_G

1123heavy wrote: »

They are changing some of the exam questions at the moment but they still haven't taken out the useless stuff. I mean do we really need to know what side of the localiser transmits 150HZ and 90 HZ lobes

For the stuff they're taking out they're also adding in. I may be wrong but I just don't think it's being done properly ... but as a young student what do i know

The exam questions are still based on maps and airport charts from the early-mid 1990s, reason being is that the questions based on this topic are about 20 years old

A huge quantity of the syllabus is very much "nice to know" with a much smaller amount (probably 20-30%) which is "need to know".

It does give students a good overall grounding across the subjects but as you say, there is some technical stuff that is completely irrelevant in day to day operations.

Glad to hear they are updating it all the same.

California Dreamer

If the industry is to be believed, airlines are crying out for pilots. Most low hour guys started in Ryanair. Base change every six months, paying for everything in an effort to get the maximum 900 hours per year before moving on to something better.

Join Ryanair, get your command within a few years. Join someone like Aer Lingus and it could be longer.

Go to the sandpit and it's easier to get wide body but you'll stay right seat for longer.

China, well if you mess up a landing you will be fined/lose bonus and get dumped back in the sim.

Conditions in airlines vary greatly but put in the hours and and you will get the rewards.

Good luck with it. Hope you make the jump!

smurfjed

You don't need any course materials to get 90% plus in the exams. Aviationexam costs 150eu and it has everything in it. 

This is like the FAA exam system, people learn the answers and do not understand how they got them. We see this a lot with guys who only trained in the USA, their basic knowledge of the fundamentals is abysmal and their reliance on the FMS is astounding.
I'm still trying to get my head around the guy who I'm presently paired with who needs a pocket calculator to calculate distance required for descent, or rate of climb for a SID.
I also had the pleasure of doing the PERF A exams based on a Bristol Britannia, once again we learned the fundamentals, asking an FAA pilot about performance is quite fun.
Unfortunately there still is a load of garbage in these exams, I have never needed to use my knowledge about the rotational speed of an INS gyro

smurfjed

I guess to answer the original question, is it worth it.....


I have to say yes, especially as today is payday

Irish Steve

smurfjed wrote: »

Unfortunately there still is a load of garbage in these exams, I have never needed to use my knowledge about the rotational speed of an INS gyro

And then there was all sorts of brain numbing stuff about lane jumping on Decca navigator, and/or Loran, which was already dead at that stage. Then there was the joys of DEDuced reckoning, usually misnamed as Dead reckoning, and the joys of point of no return, and by the time we were doing the exams, there were only a very limited number of routes across the Pacific that required the crew to actually work out if they could get to their destination or not on the fuel remaining.

And, just to add to the pressure, the exams in those days were not multi choice questions, they were longhand written papers that were all done over the space of 1 week, with 2 or 3 papers every day, done in the same sort of way that Leaving Cert was done, and you had to pass a certain number of them to be able to resit any that you failed, otherwise it was a complete resit of the entire set.

The modern flight deck with all the extras like GPS, and all the other electronics means that (as long as it's all working), the crew know where they are with an accuracy that couldn't even be guessed at back when some of those navigation techniques were put into place.

In some respects, it's too accurate, which has led to mid air collisions as opposite direction traffic that's at the same level due to a mistake ends up colliding, I still remember the first time we flew with GPS on a long sector in the States, the (analog) VOR needle had us on the correct radial, but when we put the GPS on, we were close to 4 miles off the centre track of the route, but when the accuracy of the VOR transmitter, receiver and display unit were taken into consideration, there was no error as such, other than the tolerance allowed for the equipment that was in use. How times have changed

Stovepipe

another point is the MPL commercial license; more and more cadetships are going this way and the airlines who use it essentially want rid of the PPL as soon as they can....regarding flying for the Middle Eastern companies, it's not all a bed of roses and there are intercultural differences that really have to be taken into account......all I can say is that anyone considering a flying job should get as much information as possible about the training system before they lay down a euro.

martinsvi

Stovepipe wrote: »

another point is the MPL commercial license; more and more cadetships are going this way and the airlines who use it essentially want rid of the PPL as soon as they can.

not quite true, the number of airlines providing MPL cadetships has remained the same through out the last few years, at certain point easyJet and BA were rumored to dump the route as the programme didn't prepare future pilots well enough and they lacked real life experience in the aircraft. What easyjet done for their latest MPL is they actually require you to get an EASA PPL in New Zealand first before they will let you do the twins/ifr. If you cant pass the skills test on a SEP, you're out! There are clear indications that airlines are not exactly happy with MPL