Private operator Ashbourne Connect to raise fares

StreetLight

Private operator Ashbourne Connect have announced a significant rise to many of its fares on its Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/Ashbourneconnect/

Not a good reaction from the replies - quite a few saying they will return to Bus Éireann.

prinzeugen

StreetLight wrote: »

Private operator Ashbourne Connect have announced a significant rise to many of its fares on its Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/Ashbourneconnect/

Not a good reaction from the replies - quite a few saying they will return to Bus Éireann.

I see no bad replies on the Facebook link you posted.

StreetLight

Scroll down to the posting on 14 September.

liger

StreetLight wrote: »

Private operator Ashbourne Connect have announced a significant rise to many of its fares on its Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/Ashbourneconnect/

Not a good reaction from the replies - quite a few saying they will return to Bus Éireann.

I love how they say due to the rising fuel and driver costs. I'd hate to be the drivers who will now have all the passengers looking at them blaming them for needing to pay extra.

Anybody know if drivers there got a pay increase ?

magicbastarder

having a 10 journey ticket that's valid for 8 calendar days is a bit odd. is that limitation imposed by the leap card or the operator?

devnull

It's a pretty steep rise.

I also don't buy the argument they need to buy vehicles at 300k a pop. They don't have to be brand new.

LXFlyer

Here's an analysis of the fare changes - fairly steep all right.

The monthly taxsaver is gone, only three monthly and annual tickets are now available, but they have stayed at the same prices.

I suspect that they certainly will lose much of the ad hoc customers. They are definitely focussing on regular commuters here.

Revised Ashbourne Connect Fares To Dublin City
Current New % Change

Adult Single LEAP 5.00 9.00 80%
Adult Return LEAP 8.00 10.00 25%
Adult 10 Journey LEAP 37.50 45.00 20%

Adult Single Cash 6.00 10.00 67%
Adult Return Cash 8.50 11.00 29%

Child / Student Single LEAP 4.00 8.00 100%
Child / Student Return LEAP 6.00 9.00 50%
Child / Student 10 Journey LEAP 30.00 42.00 40%

Child / Student Single Cash 6.00 10.00 67%
Child / Student Return Cash 8.50 11.00 29%


Revised Ashbourne Connect Fares To Ballsbridge / UCD
Current New % Change

Adult Single LEAP 5.00 10.00 100%
Adult Return LEAP 8.00 11.00 38%
Adult 10 Journey LEAP 37.50 45.00 20%

Adult Single Cash 6.00 11.00 83%
Adult Return Cash 8.50 12.00 41%


Child / Student Single LEAP 4.00 9.00 125%
Child / Student Return LEAP 6.00 10.00 67%
Child / Student 10 Journey LEAP 30.00 42.00 40%

Child / Student Single Cash 6.00 11.00 83%
Child / Student Return Cash 8.50 12.00 41%




Comparison with BE 103 Ashbourne to Dublin
Ash Conn BE Difference

Adult Single LEAP 9.00 4.96 4.04
Adult Return LEAP* 10.00 8.70 1.30
Adult 10 Journey (AC) / Adult Weekly (BE) LEAP 45.00 39.15 5.85

Adult Single Cash 10.00 6.20 3.80
Adult Return Cash 11.00 9.20 1.80

3 Monthly Taxsaver (BE is 3 x Monthly) 460.00 450.00 10.00
Annual Taxsaver 1,675.00 1,620.00 55.00

Student Single LEAP 8.00 4.32 3.68
Student Return LEAP* 9.00 7.00 2.00
Student 10 Journey (AC) / Student Weekly (BE) LEAP 42.00 31.30 10.70

Student Single Cash 10.00 5.40 4.60
Student Return Cash 11.00 8.20 2.80

* BE Ticket is valid 24 hours


See later post for Ratoath - Dublin Fares

devnull

It's too much of an increase and I can't help thinking they've made a major mistake here, I don't have an issue with an increase in itself, but the levels they have gone to are too steep to do in one go and many passengers will dessert them, Of course however, we don't have access to their finances to see what the current financial performance is.

If they are using the claim of the cost of new vehicles then it will be unacceptable if anything else other than new or almost new vehicles turned up and the old ones are not replaced. If passengers are paying such fare they have a right to expect that they have a standard of vehicle that reflects that rather than the old fleet they have at present

Other thing is that BE fares are cheaper but you have to take into account they are subsidised and also are having vehicles provided for them for free, so I reckon if they had to pay for their own vehicles and didn't have the subsidy their fares would certainly be a fair bit higher since right now they have part of their costs covered by the NTA and a free supply of vehicles which is a massive cost saving.

But at the end of the day if Asbourne Connect are going to charge a premium for their service going forward they need to start offering a premium service rather than one offered on 11 year old + second hand vehicles

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

It's too much of an increase and I can't help thinking they've made a major mistake here, I don't have an issue with an increase in itself, but the levels they have gone to are too steep to do in one go and many passengers will dessert them, Of course however, we don't have access to their finances to see what the current financial performance is.

If they are using the claim of the cost of new vehicles then it will be unacceptable if anything else other than new or almost new vehicles turned up and the old ones are not replaced. If passengers are paying such fare they have a right to expect that they have a standard of vehicle that reflects that rather than the old fleet they have at present

Other thing is that BE fares are cheaper but you have to take into account they are subsidised and also are having vehicles provided for them for free, so I reckon if they had to pay for their own vehicles and didn't have the subsidy their fares would certainly be a fair bit higher since right now they have part of their costs covered by the NTA and a free supply of vehicles which is a massive cost saving.

But at the end of the day if Asbourne Connect are going to charge a premium for their service going forward they need to start offering a premium service rather than one offered on 11 year old + second hand vehicles

The reason I offered the comparison with the BE 103 is that, having looked at it, I would be of the opinion that for many (especially students) the differential in fares may now be too great.

I'm fully aware that BE are subsidised.

devnull

LXFlyer wrote: »

The reason I offered the comparison with the 103 is that I would be of the opinion that for many the differential will now be too great.

I agree with you, the fare increase is far too much - I was simply outlining that the subisdy has to be taken into consideration when comparing the prices if we're talking about the argument about the cost of vehicles they need to pay for which they appear to be using and taking that at face value, although personally I think that is just being used as an excuse.

As stated, we'll soon see, if they continue to acquire second hand vehicles the age of their current fleet then it shows the argument was a red herring, if their excuse is they need to fund new vehicles at 300k a pop I expect them to start buying new premium vehicles not cast offs from other operators or bought at auction for a considerably lower price.

liger

devnull wrote: »

It's a pretty steep rise.

I also don't buy the argument they need to buy vehicles at 300k a pop. They don't have to be brand new.

Did they need to get that rise approved by the NTA?

devnull

liger wrote: »

Did they need to get that rise approved by the NTA?

Commercial services that are self funded such as Bus Eireann Expressway and Ashbourne Connect and other commercial operators don't require approval by the NTA in the same way that state funded services are.

liger

devnull wrote: »

Commercial services that are self funded such as Bus Eireann Expressway and Ashbourne Connect and other commercial operators don't require approval by the NTA in the same way that state funded services are.

Thanks for that. wasn't sure seeing as taxis, some buses and most utilities that have a regulator need approval to up their rates.

Arnold54321

What's the service like on the Ashbourne connect currently? Does it turn up on time, stick to the timetable or are they wildly ambitious times, can you get a seat etc etc?

From looking at the price increases they want to cater only towards adult yearly communters. I read on fb that some yearly ticket holders had been finding it hard to get a seat as there has been an upsurge in ad hoc passengers so I presume, to an extent, their trying to keep them happy.

Ad hoc adults, students and children are being encouraged to use BE however I presume the 103 service wouldn't be as good as a private operator but maybe I'm wrong?

Again according to fb the Ashbourne Connect are going to introduce more services in the coming weeks and a weekend service next year so increased services are on the way which sounds encouraging.

Henry1970

I have to say some people really have nothing better to do with themselves, I suppose it is a great country we live in where we can give every little general a gun so they can snipe from behind their keyboard about what other who actually get up off their backside actually do!

I have a few issues with what has been thrown out here.

* Although the Ashbourne Connect fleet is older they are very highly maintained. They all have climate control systems and are generally presented to a very high level. This is a local company that has started from nothing and in 3 years is now one of the larger operators in Dublin.

* They are clearly focusing on a target market, what is wrong with this? They clearly state they are bringing their fares into line with other commercial operators instead of fighting with the local subsidised operator. Looking this week every peak bus they run is stuffed, they are wrong but you keyboard warriors are correct?

*How will they fund wheelchair and environmentally friendly buses? Sell themselves to our wonderful banks and run themselves into the ground or do it they way it should be done! This country has nearly been destroyed by people living beyond their means.

*So they offer a crap service then according to one poster? They offer the opposite, an exceptional customer service experience is offered from the back office team, the drivers are always very pleasant and well presented, buses are very clean and tidy, they have free wifi on every bus and a live tracker system that very few offer and is a gift, they nearly always turn up as they should and where they should. They have clear well branded buses with smart route displays and Leap and you can top up on the bus which few if any other operators allow.

Seems to me that this is an excellent company built up from nothing and they know what they are doing. I suppose no other transport company ever made a success of demand lead pricing.........

Honestly the attitude of some begrudging people is sickening....holds this country back something rotten.

DeValera didnt want motorways for the rich to speed up and down in their flash cars, maybe this bus company should start paying their passengers to use them!

hmmm

You're being too defensive Henry, which I think is a pity. I don't know anything about AC or use this route myself, but it seems like a fair discussion in the thread above. Obviously the first poster throws around terms like "private operator" which suggests an agenda, but the follow-up posts are mostly factual and he wasn't long getting shot down. If you're involved with the company this is a good opportunity to engage on what is effectively a social media channel and explain why the price rises were necessary.

StreetLight

hmmm wrote: »

You're being too defensive Henry, which I think is a pity. I don't know anything about AC or use this route myself, but it seems like a fair discussion in the thread above. Obviously the first poster throws around terms like "private operator" which suggests an agenda, but the follow-up posts are mostly factual and he wasn't long getting shot down. If you're involved with the company this is a good opportunity to engage on what is effectively a social media channel and explain why the price rises were necessary.

WTF are you on about?

Ashbourne Connect IS a private operator. I don't see how the mention of it suggest an agenda.

I also don't see how an interesting story in the world of transportation would give you so much glee to see me 'shot down'.

If there's an agenda anywhere, you're the one causing it.

Henry1970

Im not directly involved with the company but I do use the service, know a lot about the company and Im involved in the industry in the local area.

Hmm's reply is balanced and considered I must say as are some others but there is one in particular who has a negative opinion on everything and seems to know lot about everything but really a lot about nothing.

The comparson chart while not completely accurate does show a few obvious points.

1. If you want to pay cash then you will have to pay a premium. Cash is getting evermore expensive for a business.

2. If you want to turn up ad hoc then you will have to pay for the option.

3. Students take up the same amount of space as adults.

4. If you regularly support the business then you will be looked after.

Increases for returns and weekly tickets are modest and monthly and annuals are not touched.

In reality this move will affect 10 maybe 20% of pax in a meaningful way but what about the people who are there 52 weeks and have their seats taken by someone who uses the bus 4 times a year? They don't count?

The only reason I have posted here is to defend the rubbish posted by one 'opinion' the is completely skewed.

To say a company that has built up a business from nothing based in offering a premium customer service are out to screw their customers if they dont buy millions of euros worth of buses instantly to satisfy 'their' keyboard while discounting everything else they do is quite frankly gauling!!!

devnull

Henry1970 wrote: »

To say a company that has built up a business from nothing based in offering a premium customer service are out to screw their customers if they dont buy millions of euros worth of buses instantly to satisfy 'their' keyboard while discounting everything else they do is quite frankly gauling!!!

They are the ones who have stated that they need to raise the fares in order to pay for such vehicles at the end of the day, they stated the following in their statement in relation to raising the fares

We are also forward planning for investment into more wheelchair accessible vehicles and vehicles with low emission technology. These two requirements will soon become a legal standard and we will need to make a €3 million investment to make the bus fleet compliant.

All I was simply saying was that since they claim that fares need to be raised in order to pay for these vehicles, then passengers will expect to see such an upgrade investment in the fleet in the near future in line with that claim.

Henry1970

Streetlite you have posted nothing but fact and are of course entitled to comment on what is a public matter.

Ashbourne Connect is what is called a Commercial Bus Operator (CBO). In the modern world 'private operator' is a devil expression that traditionally would be used by the public sector people to define the devils who dare run a bus company and creates the impression of dark pirates who will do anything for a quick buck!

Just like many groups in society a general name given in the past in the modern world many not just be as acceptable as it once was.

Henry1970

devnull wrote: »

They are the ones who have stated that they need to raise the fares in order to pay for such vehicles at the end of the day, they stated the following in their statement in relation to raising the fares



All I was simply saying was that since they claim that fares need to be raised in order to pay for these vehicles, then passengers will expect to see such an upgrade investment in the fleet in the near future in line with that claim.

Seems quite clear they have given multiple reasons for the increases which do not affect a large proportion of their customer base at all, in realtily small increase for a large proportion of the remaining customers and a large increase to stem the flow of business that is affecting a much bigger proportion of their existing core business.

You of course picked the bones out what suited you and inferred they are out to screw their customers.

devnull

Henry1970 wrote: »

You of course picked the bones out what suited you and inferred they are out to screw their customers.

No - I simply highlighted that if AC say that fares are going up to pay for newer wheelchair accessible vehicles then the passengers will expect to see newer wheelchair accessible vehicles compared to the age of the fleet as it exists now.

Henry1970

devnull wrote: »

No - I simply highlighted that if AC say that fares are going up to pay for newer wheelchair accessible vehicles then the passengers will expect to see newer wheelchair accessible vehicles compared to the age of the fleet as it exists now.

They have already put 2 wheelchair accessible coaches into service and more to come. It doesn't state that the fares are going up just to fund these vehicles. Read it - you are well able to offer up clever opinions with very little solutions but why not consider the whole statement??

This company have more than proven their commitment to their customers on many occasions but that doesn't suit your opinion so it doesn't really matter I suppose.

devnull

Henry1970 wrote: »

They have already put 2 wheelchair accessible coaches into service and more to come. It doesn't state that the fares are going up just to fund these vehicles. Read it - you are well able to offer up clever opinions with very little solutions but why not consider the whole statement??

They say they are going to spend approx €3m in wheelchair accessible coaches which would realistically allow them to purchase at least 9 brand new coaches at an average spec if they are going to spend what they claim they are.

Do you know what vehicles they will be getting in? Will they be buying new or nearly new as the €3m investment would suggest or will they be purchasing vehicles like the recently added 7 year old wheelchair accessible Scania Century which would be considerably cheaper?

Henry1970

devnull wrote: »

They say they are going to spend approx €3m in wheelchair accessible coaches which would realistically allow them to purchase at least 9 brand new coaches at an average spec if they are going to spend what they claim they are.

Do you know what vehicles they will be getting in? Will they be buying new or nearly new as the €3m investment would suggest or will they be purchasing vehicles like the recently added 7 year old wheelchair accessible Scania Century which would be considerably cheaper?

As I said earlier I would have a fair idea of what the lads are doing but Im not their offical representative.

The latter vehicle you mention is still a vehicle that is worth €150,000 when its painted and booted. How many fares will it take to pay for it over a life of 7/8 years?

A new coach will cost approximately €80 per day of a 14 year life. Add up driver, fuel, overheads. Most of them can only do one peak lap. 50 pax by average fare of lets say €8 = €400??

This is not a high margin business.

Post suggests to me they intend to self finance the development of the fleet and they are planning this now as Dublin will go like London where high emission vehicles will be banned and the NTA will impose a deadline on wheelchair accessibility as soon as the BE fleet is compliant.

Given how anything older than euro 5 approx 2011) is soon to be banned in London AC seem to be planning for the future and reading the tea leaves.

It will be no good for them or the customer if they and companies like them do not start to invest now for the high standards coming diwn the tracks.

J.pilkington

Fair play Henry, great posts from a users perspective rather than what seems to be general statements(very selective too) garnished from google / Facebook searches camouflaged as if they are coming from a users perspective.

Great point that some posters are cherry picking parts of ACs fare increase justification which they published. They issued a multi point justification for the increase yet some posters have decided to ignore all of the points bar one and want to hold them to account if they don’t buy a fleet of 172 coaches.

That €150k figure really puts it into perspective, it isn’t cheap to try start a business, and not nice having it knocked by anonymous users hiding behind a key board.

Would I also be right saying this operator travels via the motorway and tunnel, if so surely that’s worth its weight in gold for a regular commuter.

devnull

Henry1970 wrote: »

AThe latter vehicle you mention is still a vehicle that is worth €150,000 when its painted and booted. How many fares will it take to pay for it over a life of 7/8 years?

It must be a seriously impressive spec inside for that price? The reason I ask is I've had a look around a few dealers sites and generally you can buy coaches of the same model and age with a pretty good spec for approx €100k

A new coach will cost approximately €80 per day of a 14 year life. Add up driver, fuel, overheads. Most of them can only do one peak lap. 50 pax by average fare of lets say €8 = €400??

I'm not disputing that new coaches are expensive of course they are but pretty much all of the big privates in Ireland lease at least some of their fleet, certainly GoBus, Aircoach. JJ Kavanagh, Bernard Kavanagh etc would certainly be leasing vehicles, normally on maintenance and spares contracts.

Thing is they've stated they need to invest €3m in coaches so they'if they're spending €150k a pop like you say then they could get 20 coaches for that much but they have nowhere near enough work to need that many based on current timetables, they'd need to massively increase their timetables.

J.pilkington

devnull wrote: »

It must be a seriously impressive spec inside for that price? The reason I ask is I've had a look around a few dealers sites and generally you can buy coaches of the same model and age with a pretty good spec for approx €100k



I'm not disputing that new coaches are expensive of course they are but pretty much all of the big privates in Ireland lease at least some of their fleet, certainly GoBus, Aircoach. JJ Kavanagh, Bernard Kavanagh etc would certainly be leasing vehicles, normally on maintenance and spares contracts.

Thing is they've stated they need to invest €3m in coaches so they'if they're spending €150k a pop like you say then they could get 20 coaches for that much but they have nowhere near enough work to need that many based on current timetables, they'd need to massively increase their timetables.

You are way off with your €100k

Uk price = £87.5k / €105k
Add VAT = €130k

Henry mentioned painted so add another few k. Transport and preparation (leap machine/WiFi etc)and not a million miles off €150k.

And your example is not even wheelchair compliant so not even a fair comparison in the first place.

I don’t understand the relevance of other operators leasing coaches. Do you realise that leasing companies are commercial enterprises out to make a profit,as in they will charge probably 8 to 10% interest so there is no savings in leasing. And there is no way that those companies you mentioned are on an alll in maintenance plan from their leasing company, gobus maybe because they change every 18mths but definitely not the others.

You seem to be going out of your way to attack this coach operator? Do you receive a poor service from them?

devnull

J.pilkington wrote: »

You are way off with your €100k

Uk price = £87.5k / €105k
Add VAT = €130k

Henry mentioned painted so add another few k. Transport and preparation (leap machine/WiFi etc)and not a million miles off €150k.

And your example is not even wheelchair compliant so not even a fair comparison in the first place.

I happen to agree with you on this.

I only had a quick skim of the page as it was late and I misread the page, the vehicle indeed does not take a wheelchair and indeed the price does not include VAT as you correctly state, but it wasn't something that was deliberate, it was merely an oversight.

I don’t understand the relevance of other operators leasing coaches. Do you realise that leasing companies are commercial enterprises out to make a profit,as in they will charge probably 8 to 10% interest so there is no savings in leasing.

If there were no savings to be had by leasing then nobody would be leasing, but leasing is very common in the coach world in Ireland especially because the leasing company tend to offer an overall package because they are assets of the leasing company rather than assets of the company. There's also the fact that they require less up front costs and can offer more flexibility.

And there is no way that those companies you mentioned are on an alll in maintenance plan from their leasing company, gobus maybe because they change every 18mths but definitely not the others.

It's extremely common these days. Irish Commercials themselves have stated that Aircoach for one are on such contract, I have heard from a good source that JJ Kavanagh are and pretty much all of the Mercedes stuff tends to be on those contracts as well.

It's a win-win scenario for companies generally, since the operator knows that they will have the back-up of the manufacturer if something breaks down and don't need to worry about that side of things themselves and gives the lessor piece of mind and control to some degree over who is maintaining their assets and what kind of work is being done for them.

You seem to be going out of your way to attack this coach operator? Do you receive a poor service from them?

I have no gripe with Ashbourne Connect whatsoever, I actually feel that they have to date offered a good service for the price point that is on offer to date and would also agree that there was perhaps room for a small increase - I just don't agree with any transport providers raising standard single and return fares so much in one go.

We'll just have to wait and see how this one turns out in the future and the reason that I would expect to see the fleet substantially renewed is because needing €3m to invest in it was used as one of the justifications for the price rise in the first place, nothing more than that.

liam7831

What's the average % increase ? It seems strange to be running a promotional price for 3yrs

devnull

liam7831 wrote: »

What's the average % increase ? It seems strange to be running a promotional price for 3yrs

LXFlyer posted an excellent comprehensive comparison here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104703273&postcount=7