Car has been written off 11 months later by Axa after I bought it

Seregwethrin

Hi,
Mar 2016: Axa writes off the car Category B can't be repaired (but doesn't declare)
Oct 2016: I buy it privately from a mechanic, Tax & NCT it perfectly. Cartell check was fine, write-off wasn't anywhere.
Feb 2017: MotorTax is notified by Axa about write-off, 11 months later
Sep 2017: I can't re-tax it because MotorTax says the car is written off
I am still on the phone with Axa trying to figure out what's going on.
Is there a scam going on??
Any help, ideas?
Thank you

Update:
Axa just confirmed they have written off this car.
They confirmed it was written off for the date before I bought it but they don't confirm when the write off notification happened.

They also confirmed the claim the car related to is not related to me so they don't disclose much.
They told me it was written off for Class B, and the car should have destroyed and I should have never bought this car.

Regardless, I bought it from someone who had the logbook of the car, privately.

They are telling me this car is not roadworthy, but I have an NCT from Oct 2016 2 years.

They are telling me there is no way to lift the Class B write-off.
But I own this car and they are preventing me from using it.

What should I do, call Garda, get a solicitor?

corglass

What category (B or C I'm guessing) was the write off?

Seregwethrin

@corglass
I don't know... MotorTax didn't give me those details and still waiting for a guy to call me back from Axa...

corglass

Have a Google on the categories, off my head it's
A: cannot return to road
B: cannot return to road
C: can return to road but beyond economical repair
can return, economic to repair

You'll need to know the category from AXA to establish if it can return to road.

Cows Go µ

Also, I've heard of them accidentally noting the wrong vehicle as being written off. Make sure they have got the right car

Del2005

corglass wrote: »

Have a Google on the categories, off my head it's
A: cannot return to road
B: cannot return to road
C: can return to road but beyond economical repair
can return, economic to repair

You'll need to know the category from AXA to establish if it can return to road.

IIRC Ireland doesn't do categories for write off. But if it is a dangerous write off it should be going to a scrapper not a garage. So it most likely was an economic write off and will need a main dealer inspection before it can be taxed.

Seregwethrin

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC Ireland doesn't do categories for write off. But if it is a dangerous write off it should be going to a scrapper not a garage. So it most likely was an economic write off and will need a main dealer inspection before it can be taxed.

I've taxed it once on Oct 2016 fine and also car passed NCT on Oct 2016 for 2 years until Oct 2018.

Does this not help?

beer enigma

The only way the mechanic in Portlaois could have the log book is if he bought it as a repairable write off in which case he had a duty to tell you ?

CJhaughey

Sounds like a clerical error to me.

Seregwethrin

Damage level:	Written-off by insurer
Action: Contact Cartell
Source: DoT
Date: 13-02-2017

Just did a Cartell check and I got this.

Cartell guy told me DoT only writes-off A and B classes. He is going to look into this and call me back but honestly this is getting even more confusing as I bought it in Oct 2016...

ohnonotgmail

Seregwethrin wrote: »

Damage level:    Written-off by insurer
Action: Contact Cartell
Source: DoT
Date: 13-02-2017

Just did a Cartell check and I got this.

Cartell guy told me DoT only writes-off A and B classes. He is going to look into this and call me back but honestly this is getting even more confusing as I bought it in Oct 2016...

was it written off in the UK?

Seregwethrin

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

was it written off in the UK?

I don't think so, this is an Irish car, it doesn't say "UK" or not. It says DoT and I assume it is Irish DoT, no?

ohnonotgmail

Seregwethrin wrote: »

I don't think so, this is an Irish car, it doesn't say "UK" or not. It says DoT and I assume it is Irish DoT, no?

they must be using the old abbreviation if it is the irish one. it hasnt been just the department of transport for a while now.

Seregwethrin

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they must be using the old abbreviation if it is the irish one. it hasnt been just the department of transport for a while now.

Yeah I see, it is: "DTTAS Department of Transport, Tourism And Sport"

Well, this is just Cartell web interface and it says "DoT". It might easily mean DTTAS I assume as Cartell itself is not related to Tourism and Sport.

ohnonotgmail

have you contacted the mechanic and asked him how he obtained the car?

Seregwethrin

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

have you contacted the mechanic and asked him how he obtained the car?

Well he bought and told me car needed some attention he replaced a few parts but nothing major, and then I got it from him and the car passed the NCT in 2 weeks while I was owning it and also Cartell report at the time didn't show up any write-off.

ohnonotgmail

Seregwethrin wrote: »

Well he bought and told me car needed some attention he replaced a few parts but nothing major, and then I got it from him and the car passed the NCT in 2 weeks while I was owning it and also Cartell report at the time didn't show up any write-off.

yes but have you contacted him since you found out it was written off?

Seregwethrin

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

yes but have you contacted him since you found out it was written off?

No, I just found about it today and I am still waiting for Axa and Department of Transport to return back to me with more information as nobody had any concrete information yet...

Like Axa hasn't confirmed they wrote off the car, I was on the phone with 4 people. It seems they are investigating.

If they have written off the car they should be able to tell straight away that they did that, shouldn't they?

ohnonotgmail

Seregwethrin wrote: »

No, I just found about it today and I am still waiting for Axa and Department of Transport to return back to me with more information as nobody had any concrete information yet...

Like Axa hasn't confirmed they wrote off the car, I was on the phone with 4 people. It seems they are investigating.

If they have written off the car they should be able to tell straight away that they did that, shouldn't they?

that would assume competence on behalf of the people you were talking to.

Buffman

Seregwethrin wrote: »

I am still on the phone with Axa trying to figure out what's going on.
Is there a scam going on??
Any help, ideas?

I don't think it's a scam, sounds very much like an error somewhere along the line.

One of my previous cars was a 'write-off', the only issue I had with it was having to email the NCT certificate to insurance companies before they would quote me. No issues at all with tax.

It might be worth popping into your local motor tax office to get talking to somebody face to face to get an answer as to what's going on.

Seregwethrin

Axa just confirmed they have written off this car.

They confirmed it was written off for the date before I bought it but they don't confirm when the write off confirmation happened.

They also confirmed the claim the car related to is not related to me so they don't disclose much.

They told me it was written off for Class B, and the car should have destroyed and I should have never bought this car.

Regardless, I bought it from someone who had the logbook of the car.

They are telling me this car is not roadworthy, but I have an NCT from Oct 2016 showing the car is roadworthy.

They are telling me there is no way to lift the Class B write-off.
But I own this car and they are preventing me from using it.

What should I do, call Garda, get a solicitor?

Sofiztikated

Seregwethrin wrote: »

Axa just confirmed they have written off this car.

They confirmed it was written off for the date before I bought it but they don't confirm when the write off confirmation happened.

They also confirmed the claim the car related to is not related to me so they don't disclose much.

They told me it was written off for Class B, and the car should have destroyed and I should have never bought this car.

Regardless, I bought it from someone who had the logbook of the car.

They are telling me this car is not roadworthy, but I have an NCT from Oct 2016 showing the car is roadworthy.

They are telling me there is no way to lift the Class B write-off.
But I own this car and they are preventing me from using it.

What should I do, call Garda, get a solicitor?

How much did you pay for the car?

Honestly, if it is a write off, only you can determine if it's worth the hassle and time chasing money on it.

I'd give the Garda a shout though, so they can give your man a little visit.

Seregwethrin

Sofiztikated wrote: »

How much did you pay for the car?

Honestly, if it is a write off, only you can determine if it's worth the hassle and time chasing money on it.

I'd give the Garda a shout though, so they can give your man a little visit.

Bought it for 5.5K BMW 316 2007. The car drives perfectly fine.

How can a car be a write-off if it can pass the NCT?

discodaveirl

A solicitor is going to cost you, so i wouldnt be going spending money on thatjust yet.. I would however try and put the onus on AXA (or there agent) to reimbuse you. They paid out on the claim obviously and there agent (scrap yard with the required enviromental licences) should have destroyed your car. Whos name was on the logbook when you bought the car (was it the seller or a third party)? Have you any paper trail of payment (paid by cash, cheque, postal order or bank draft)? Have you any screenshot of donedeal ad, copy of advert from local paper or a photo of the car at the location where you bought it. Someone hasnt done there job properly and you have been defrauded. Try and get your paperwork in order now and deal with this asap. Even though you have an NCT cert, your car shouldnt be on the road. I wouldnt be keen on driving on the road as it may invalidate your insurance.

honda boi

I wonder could cartell be held partly responsible as they said it wasn't a write off or is the full blame on axa?,

Farmer

honda boi wrote: »

I wonder could cartell be held partly responsible as they said it wasn't a write off or is the full blame on axa?,

By agreeing to their terms and conditions you agree to indemnify them against virtually everything

elperello

Farmer wrote: »

By agreeing to their terms and conditions you agree to indemnify them against virtually everything

Yes it looks like the legal eagles went to town on the T&Cs. They could nearly take your first born and get away clean!

CJhaughey

Time to get the Insurance Ombudsman on the case I imagine, Axa are at fault for not ensuring the destruction of the vehicle if it had been written off.
Timely notification of the writing off of the vehicle should also have happened so that this kind of timeline should not arise.
11mths is not in any way acceptable.
I'd start by contacting the Ombudsman and ask them to start investigating how this happened.

Buffman

Seregwethrin wrote: »

Axa just confirmed they have written off this car.

They told me it was written off for Class B, and the car should have destroyed and I should have never bought this car.

Ok, so there're two issues here.

1. How did AXA dispose of the write-off car and allow it to back onto the road again when they should have scrapped it and received the certificate of destruction? I suspect getting them to answer that will be like getting blood out of a stone, especially as you aren't an AXA customer.

I'm guessing AXA are acting under the new 2016 Road Traffic Act Section 4:

Vehicle insurer obligations


4. (1) A vehicle insurer, who as a result of an inspection of a mechanically propelled vehicle determines that such vehicle is defective to the extent that it is—

(a) when in motion, a danger to the public, and

(b) beyond repair,

shall notify the Minister in accordance with subsection (2) within 5 working days of such inspection.

(2) When an insurer notifies the Minister under subsection (1) it shall also notify the Minister whether, based on the inspection of the vehicle, it is suitable for the salvaging of viable automotive parts.

(3) A notification under this section shall be dated and shall include the following:

(a) the registration number (if any) of the vehicle;

(b) the make, model and body type of the vehicle;

(c) the VIN, or vehicle identification number, of the vehicle, that is to say, the fixed combination of characters assigned to the vehicle by a manufacturer or its authorised distributor for vehicle identification purposes which is marked on the chassis, frame or other similar structure of the vehicle;

(d) the date on which the vehicle was inspected by, or on behalf of, the vehicle insurer;

(e) if the defect in the vehicle was the result of an event involving the vehicle which occurred in a public place, the date of that event and, if any insurance claim arose in relation to the vehicle’s involvement, the insurance company’s claim number in respect of that claim.

(4) The Minister may make regulations prescribing the manner in which a notification under subsection (2) shall be made including, in particular, whether it is to be made electronically or in hard-copy.

You may be able to make a freedom of information request on this to the department and get a clearer picture of what's going on.

Seregwethrin wrote: »

Regardless, I bought it from someone who had the logbook of the car.

They are telling me this car is not roadworthy, but I have an NCT from Oct 2016 showing the car is roadworthy.

They are telling me there is no way to lift the Class B write-off.
But I own this car and they are preventing me from using it.

What should I do, call Garda, get a solicitor?

2. How to get the car back on the road? I'd contact the department and ask them how to get the 'write-off' removed from their system to reflect the vaild NCT.

Del2005

Buffman wrote: »

2. How to get the car back on the road? I'd contact the department and ask them how to get the 'write-off' removed from their system to reflect the vaild NCT.

NCT doesn't test enough to prove its safe. There could be structural issues that caused it to be written off. I wouldn't want to be in a crash in it without getting a full inspection done. Or at least get the report from AXA on why it was written off.

tnegun

Wonder is it a clone? Does the VIN match or look like its been altered?

MissShihTzu

I wouldn't be frying my brain any more. OP -Do you have a note of the people you spoke to, date (obviously today) and times you spoke to them?

I'd be turning the whole lot over to the Ombudman. Let them sort it out.

I would also assume you can't drive the car in the meantime until this mess is sorted? Technically, I don't think you're insured to drive that car if Axa say it is a write-off. Have your own insurers been informed?

Seregwethrin

Does anyone know a solicitor to get advice to deal with this in Dublin?
Thanks

MissShihTzu

I don't think you need a solicitor. Get all the details together and get on to the Ombudman. Get Axa to put it in writing that they wrote off the car.

Seregwethrin

MissShihTzu wrote: »

I don't think you need a solicitor. Get all the details together and get on to the Ombudman. Get Axa to put it in writing that they wrote off the car.

Well I want to know where I stand with my situation in front of the law considering I did nothing wrong and Axa is stopping me from using the car I own that is NCT'd. They are doing this by their faults of 11 months delayed write off notification and not having the car sent to the scrapyard even though declaring a Class B write off on it.

Del2005

Seregwethrin wrote: »

Well I want to know where I stand with my situation in front of the law considering I did nothing wrong and Axa is stopping me from using the car I own that is NCT'd. They are doing this by their faults of 11 months delayed write off notification and not having the car sent to the scrapyard even though declaring a Class B write off on it.

You apparently have a written off car that can't be driven since it should have been destroyed. What you need to find out is why the car was considered beyond repair. A solicitor won't help in this. The other issue is the delay in the write off notification which again a solicitor can't help with, plenty of people have bought vehicles which turned out to be stolen and have had to live with the loss when the insurance company retook possession.

Your only potential comeback is from the person that you bought it off but the delay by AXA is registering it as a write off will work in their favour.

Isambard

i think you need a solicitor and go after the guy who sold you it . I very much doubt it can go back on the road.

Any sign that it may have been in a flood?

Seregwethrin

Isambard wrote: »

i think you need a solicitor and go after the guy who sold you it . I very much doubt it can go back on the road.

Any sign that it may have been in a flood?

No, no sign about a flood.

After I bought it my mechanic only noticed the headlights have been fixed back after a crash then again it wasn't a big issue nothing major and they told me, just the headlights.
Then again nothing popped up in cartell check at that time as Axa registered this 11 months later.

Isambard

It sounds like a Cat C wrongly recorded as Cat B. How you prove that, I don't know. Can you trace the previous Owner (before the accident?)

Seregwethrin

Isambard wrote: »

It sounds like a Cat C wrongly recorded as Cat B. How you prove that, I don't know. Can you trace the previous Owner (before the accident?)

I only have a phone and address of the mechanic who sold me...

Effects

Seregwethrin wrote: »

How can a car be a write-off if it can pass the NCT?

The NCT isn't a thorough check. I've heard of many cars with larger issues sailing through the NCT.

My first car passed the NCT and a week later the steering column came completely loose. Result of a crash 18 months previous.

Seregwethrin

Effects wrote: »

The NCT isn't a thorough check. I've heard of many cars with larger issues sailing through the NCT.

My first car passed the NCT and a week later the steering column came completely loose. Result of a crash 18 months previous.

I've made 14K kms with this car so far...

MissShihTzu

Seregwethrin wrote: »

Well I want to know where I stand with my situation in front of the law considering I did nothing wrong and Axa is stopping me from using the car I own that is NCT'd. They are doing this by their faults of 11 months delayed write off notification and not having the car sent to the scrapyard even though declaring a Class B write off on it.

That's why you should not be wasting any more money yet. It might not even BE a legal issue, but rather a clerical error. You don't know that yet. You need to sort this out with the insurance first. If the car is proved to be a Cat B write-off, then clearly legal action can be taken.

Can I ask? Are you still driving the car? You know, technically you're not insured on it until this is sorted out.

Seregwethrin

MissShihTzu wrote: »

That's why you should not be wasting any more money yet. It might not even BE a legal issue, but rather a clerical error. You don't know that yet. You need to sort this out with the insurance first. If the car is proved to be a Cat B write-off, then clearly legal action can be taken.

Can I ask? Are you still driving the car? You know, technically you're not insured on it until this is sorted out.

Axa yesterday confirmed on the phone this is a Class B write-off.

I stopped driving it since I learned this but I've been driving it for a year and my insurance told me if I can get an engineer's report they can continue to insure the car.

Anyone knows a qualified engineer to inspect the car to be able to give a roadworthy certificate if it is?

MissShihTzu

Seregwethrin wrote: »

Axa yesterday confirmed on the phone this is a Class B write-off.

Get it in writing!

Caliden

MissShihTzu wrote: »

Get it in writing!

Get them to pull the call since every call is recorded.

Seregwethrin

I don't think they will give me something in writing straight away, they told me to write to their complaints department but I expect that would take weeks. I will get on with all these, hassle to work with, Axa's incompetence...

Axa also told me they can't disclose as I am not part of the claim that car has been written-off at that time.

Caliden

Seregwethrin wrote: »

I don't think they will give me something in writing straight away, they told me to write to their complaints department but I expect that would take weeks. I will get on with all these, hassle to work with, Axa's incompetence...

Axa also told me they can't disclose as I am not part of the claim that car has been written-off at that time.

Cite the freedom of information act. "a request for records must be acknowledged within 2 weeks and, in most cases, responded to within 4 weeks."

Riskymove

Caliden wrote: »

Cite the freedom of information act. "a request for records must be acknowledged within 2 weeks and, in most cases, responded to within 4 weeks."

Axa wouldn't be covered by freedom of information

MissShihTzu

Caliden wrote: »

Get them to pull the call since every call is recorded.

I wouldn't trust them to pull the call either. It's well known that calls can be 'lost'. Even if it takes weeks, get it in writing. If it can't speak, it can't lie...

knipex

Seregwethrin wrote: »

Bought it for 5.5K BMW 316 2007. The car drives perfectly fine.

How can a car be a write-off if it can pass the NCT?

The NCT checks and inspects a list of items. If its not on that list then its generally not checked.

I have seen (and bought and owned) repaired crashed cars but I know they were repaired properly.

back in Summer 2010 I can across a car on a road back in West Clare. 3 year old Ford Mondeo guy had bought 10 months previously. He was on holiday with his family and half way round a bend he hit a pothole, (not going fast, its a second gear bend) the front wishbone actually dropped off the car. When we looked at it there were lumps of filler falling off.

The front left had been heated, pulled, stretched and then made look nice with filler before being painted and sealed. Guy told me he had 4 wheel alignment done the previous week and it was 100% straight and true.

Due to a bad repair the entire front of the car was weak and he was lucky it happened at 30kph and not 120 on a motorway..