French Air Traffic control on Strike(Again)

Gamb!t

Just arrived in France and heard Air traffic control are going on strike.
How long do these strikes last for usually ?

Foggy43

If you do a search the media are saying this one is for Tuesday Sept 12th only.

Stevek101

Another strike due next week 21st and 23rd.

Locker10a

Stevek101 wrote: »

Another strike due next week 21st and 23rd.

Phew, im flying the 22nd

The Rape of Lucretia

Number one site for you speed dial if you deal with France at all regularly :

http://www.cestlagreve.fr


Just the fact that there is such a says so much.

Stevek101

Locker10a wrote: »

Phew, im flying the 22nd

I'm in the same boat as yourself. Nearly shat myself when I seen the article 21st and two days... I initially thought 21st for 48 hours.

Veloce

Crap. I'm flying to Lanzorote on Sept 23rd. Will this strike likely affect me?

basill

Which airline? If AL then although your flight isnt planned to cross France (usually the routing is across the Bay of Biscay outside of French airspace) you could indirectly be affected for a couple of reasons. Firstly when France closes its airspace or restricts capacity due to a strike the German and Spanish ATC sectors become overwhelmed as all the airlines try and avoid French airspace. This can result in slots, capacity restrictions etc in those areas not on strike. Secondly, your aircraft may be delayed as it could be caught up in the carnage from earlier rotations throughout the day. If you have an early morning departure then you should be better placed as the aircraft will more than likely be at its base ready for departure on its first rotation.

Veloce

Thanks for the response. I believe it's a charter airline - smartwings whom I'm flying with.

Locker10a

Veloce wrote: »

Thanks for the response. I believe it's a charter airline - smartwings whom I'm flying with.

I doubt you'll be cancelled but expect delays, if you're on time then you've got lucky

jimbis

Any possibility these strikes will extend to other days? Flying to Palma on 18th and back 25th.

Locker10a

jimbis wrote: »

Any possibility these strikes will extend to other days? Flying to Palma on 18th and back 25th.

They actually generally tend to be called off rather than spread, from experience anyway

January

Can someone explain why they're always striking

Noxegon

January wrote: »

Can someone explain why they're always striking

They're French?

notharrypotter

January wrote: »

Can someone explain why they're always striking

Strangely they believe in standing up for their rights.

Its expected, unlike here.

JCX BXC

notharrypotter wrote: »

Strangely they believe in standing up for their rights.

Its expected, unlike here.

Those awful Train, Bus, Luas, drivers, Guards and teachers here never standing up for their rights

HTCOne

January wrote: »

Can someone explain why they're always striking

In this case it was a national day of strike I think, all civil servants walk off the job together in Solidarity. They do it every time politicians try and increase the working week or reduce pensions etc.

mattser

They're at it again. Holding hostage to tens of thousands. Do these guys ever stop ? How in the name of God can the EU allow this to continue year on year ?

faoiarvok

mattser wrote: »

They're at it again. Holding hostage to tens of thousands. Do these guys ever stop ? How in the name of God can the EU allow this to continue year on year ?

The European Convention of Human Rights protects the right to collective bargaining and industrial action.

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/eurwork/articles/echr-upholds-right-to-collective-bargaining-and-to-strike

Locker10a

faoiarvok wrote: »

mattser wrote: »

They're at it again. Holding hostage to tens of thousands. Do these guys ever stop ? How in the name of God can the EU allow this to continue year on year ?

The European Convention of Human Rights protects the right to collective bargaining and industrial action.

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/eurwork/articles/echr-upholds-right-to-collective-bargaining-and-to-strike

Yeah I’ll be worried when the EU doesn’t protect the right to democratically initiate a strike or industrial action

faoiarvok

faoiarvok wrote: »

The European Convention of Human Rights protects the right to collective bargaining and industrial action.

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/eurwork/articles/echr-upholds-right-to-collective-bargaining-and-to-strike

As it should be.

trellheim

They're at it again. Holding hostage to tens of thousands. Do these guys ever stop ? How in the name of God can the EU allow this to continue year on year ?

It is not as if it is a surprise. Macron if you read the news was always going to push for some deregulation, and so this was inevitable.

mattser

Deleted User wrote: »

As it should be.

Spoiled children. . Doesn't seem to be nearly as big a problem for their colleagues across Europe.

LXFlyer

Perhaps read up on French politics and you’ll understand that President Macron is trying to push through massive public sector labour reforms, including the length of the working week, pensions and other aspects. Needless to say the unions don’t like it.

Consequently industrial action across the entire public sector.

This is going to run for a while I suspect, but he has the majority in Parliament so apart from disrupting everyone it’s difficult to see what the unions can do in the long run.

Not good for the rest of us but the French right to strike and protest is one of their cherished freedoms.

mattser

LXFlyer wrote: »

Perhaps read up on French politics and you’ll understand that President Macron is trying to push through massive public sector labour reforms, including the length of the working week, pensions and other aspects. Needless to say the unions don’t like it.

Consequently industrial action across the entire public sector.

This is going to run for a while I suspect, but he has the majority in Parliament so apart from disrupting everyone it’s difficult to see what the unions can do in the long run.

Not good for the rest of us but the French right to strike and protest is one of their cherished freedoms.

Perhaps you hadn't noticed that they were at this crack long before Macron. Since 2005, out of 357 ATC strikes in the eurozone, 249 were French. Costing the eurozone economy €12 billion. Sick.

LXFlyer

mattser wrote: »

Perhaps you hadn't noticed that they were at this crack long before Macron. Since 2005, out of 357 ATC strikes in the eurozone, 249 were French. Costing the eurozone economy €12 billion. Sick.

Well you asked what this dispute was about - I’ve told you!

Blut2

Its obviously annoying when the strikes impact your flight but I have to say overall fair play to them. ATC of all nationalities do an extremely stressful job, and have responsibility for a lot of people's lives in their hands every day. They should have the best working conditions possible. If Macron is trying to increase their working week's hours or reduce their pension then I'm completely on the ATC side.

JCX BXC

The strikes are very OTT, but it's what the French are known for, and I don't foresee a law that cannot be seen as unfair to some party!

Also, yes ATC is a very important job, however they get well compensated. Just because their job is important, are they deserving of in essence whatever wages they choose? Not trying to get too deep into the debate, but several other very important professions , perhaps moreso, like Nurses and Gardaí, aren't particularly well compensated whatsoever.

faoiarvok

In many cases, the controllers aren't striking over their own conditions in particular, but in solidarity with other public sector workers, or against public sector pay reforms as a whole.

FishOnABike

It's coming into Summer, it's France, it's air traffic control, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Del2005

faoiarvok wrote: »

In many cases, the controllers aren't striking over their own conditions in particular, but in solidarity with other public sector workers, or against public sector pay reforms as a whole.

More likely they know that if the air traffic goes on strike it has an impact if accounts in a municipal district goes on strike no one will notice.

mattser

JCX BXC wrote: »

The strikes are very OTT, but it's what the French are known for, and I don't foresee a law that cannot be seen as unfair to some party!

Also, yes ATC is a very important job, however they get well compensated. Just because their job is important, are they deserving of in essence whatever wages they choose? Not trying to get too deep into the debate, but several other very important professions , perhaps moreso, like Nurses and GardaB], aren't particularly well compensated whatsoever.

Gardai can't strike, and the public here get het up anytime they threaten to take any action.

French ATC have had 249 strikes since 2005, and yet people defend them.

I really hope those who defend this carry on, are left high and dry across Europe for the summer and beyond. They deserve it.
Slan.

Gamb!t

On strike again this Saturday and Sunday.
I only found out this morning that there was more strikes.Was it known the strike was scheduled for this weekend or I like everyone else just found out this morning ?

GBX

Gamb!t wrote: »

On strike again this Saturday and Sunday.
I only found out this morning that there was more strikes.Was it known the strike was scheduled for this weekend or I like everyone else just found out this morning ?

Its been talked about for the past few days.

HTCOne

Gamb!t wrote: »

On strike again this Saturday and Sunday.
I only found out this morning that there was more strikes.Was it known the strike was scheduled for this weekend or I like everyone else just found out this morning ?

It’s only Marseille, they were on strike last weekend too as were Barcelona. Apparently Marseille are striking over the removal of 24/7 engineering cover, so if something breaks on a Friday evening, unless it’s absolutely critical it won’t be fixed until Monday.

The Catalans were striking over staff shortages.

Hurrache

Any others flagged as coming in the immediate few weeks?

HTCOne

Hurrache wrote: »

Any others flagged as coming in the immediate few weeks?

I think Marseille are on strike pretty much every weekend for the summer?

johnnykilo

I'm meant to be flying Dublin to Berlin tomorrow? Anyone know if this will be affected? I wouldn't imagine it would be on the flightpath but I could be wrong.

Locker10a

johnnykilo wrote: »

I'm meant to be flying Dublin to Berlin tomorrow? Anyone know if this will be affected? I wouldn't imagine it would be on the flightpath but I could be wrong.

Even routes not over dance may be affected by delays, as traffic avoids the restricted airspace the surrounding ones end up with capacity issues which means holding flights on the ground

Spanish Eyes

Macron needs to sort his sht out now. Between annual and rolling SNCF and ATC and so many more strikes every year it is ridiculous. I don't care if they strike, but when they affect many European destinations it is just ridiculous.

BTW their strike pay must be better than their actual pay to be able to do this ad infinitum.

HTCOne

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Macron needs to sort his sht out now. Between annual and rolling SNCF and ATC and so many more strikes every year it is ridiculous. I don't care if they strike, but when they affect many European destinations it is just ridiculous.

BTW their strike pay must be better than their actual pay to be able to do this ad infinitum.

Most of the time French ATC don’t actually strike. The general union (eg IMPACT, SIPTU etc) call a general strike and the government imposes flow control as a result, but pretty much everyone in ATC still shows up to work I’ve been told, as they don’t want to lose a day’s pay when it’s going to be an easy one.

Previous ones this year are the usual solidarity stuff (train drivers in this case I think), the Marseille stuff is a separate ATC specific issue.

sillysocks

Does anyone know if Ryanair flights to/from Faro are affected when French atc are striking? I know Spanish ones are usually cancelled but not sure if Faro would have a route over French air space...

Locker10a

sillysocks wrote: »

Does anyone know if Ryanair flights to/from Faro are affected when French atc are striking? I know Spanish ones are usually cancelled but not sure if Faro would have a route over French air space...

Yes I’d say they will be affected as they fly the airspace surrounding France which will all be at capacity as flights avoid the French areas, this will cause delays such as flights being held on the ground until a time safer capacity levels are reached in the relevant airspace control areas

sillysocks

Locker10a wrote: »

Yes I’d say they will be affected as they fly the airspace surrounding France which will all be at capacity as flights avoid the French areas, this will cause delays such as flights being held on the ground until a time safer capacity levels are reached in the relevant airspace control areas

And usually Ryanair are pretty bad at canceling rather than delaying so probably won’t be good news for Faro with Ryanair.

billie1b

sillysocks wrote: »

And usually Ryanair are pretty bad at canceling rather than delaying so probably won’t be good news for Faro with Ryanair.

FR7034 DUB-FAO pushed a few minutes early this morning, no slots or delays

Gamb!t

Going again this weekend meh.

mattser

Gamb!t wrote: »

Going again this weekend meh.

This is the first time I've seen Euro countries start to sit up and say " Enough of this crap "
It's taken far too long, but it's a start.

It will be interesting to see how successful it is.

I'd love to see these ****s sorted out.

notharrypotter

mattser wrote: »

This is the first time I've seen Euro countries start to sit up and say " Enough of this crap "
It's taken far too long, but it's a start.

It will be interesting to see how successful it is.

I'd love to see these ****s sorted out.

Genuinely curious but do you have any idea as to the underling cause of the strike?
If so can you please post a link?

Noxegon

notharrypotter wrote: »

Genuinely curious but do you have any idea as to the underling cause of the strike?

At the risk of coming across as flippant... France?

L1011

They're French. That's it.

mattser

notharrypotter wrote: »

Genuinely curious, do you know what the strike is about?
If so can you post a link?

Staff cuts & lack of investment. Which is fair enough, but as I posted earlier in the thread;

Since 2005, out of 357 ATC strikes in the eurozone, 249 were French. Costing the eurozone economy €12 billion.

Time they were taken out.