Electric Vehicles and Budget 2017...?

billy few mates

Does anybody reckon there might be some additional incentives in the upcoming budget to encourage greater interest and uptake in EVs and hybrids...?

I had been toying with the idea of buying a Golf GTE but lost interest, more recently I was thinking of buying a new GTD but gave up on that idea when I couldn't get the the salesman to budge an inch on the brochure price.
I'm now thinking I might wait to see if there is anything in the budget that might tempt me back to a GTE or at this stage would I be better off leaving it and hold out for an 18 instead of a late 17...?

n97 mini

I wouldn't think there'll be any changes. We're always the last to do anything.

Instead of a diesel or hybrid, have you considered a true EV? For less money than a GTD or GTE you'd get an Ioniq.

isnottheword

Rather than carrot, there might be some more stick. I could be as far out as a lighthouse but I'd wager there will be an incremental increase in motor tax on diesel (to be repeated every other budget for the foreseeable). In fairness, the incentives here are not that bad. Working towards network availability and some thought towards a gradual upgrading of the electricity supply would be welcome.

billy few mates

n97 mini wrote: »

I wouldn't think there'll be any changes. We're always the last to do anything.

Instead of a diesel or hybrid, have you considered a true EV? For less money than a GTD or GTE you'd get an Ioniq.

No I hadn't considered a true EV but I will now, thanks for the suggestion, I wasn't aware of the Ioniq but I'm definitely going to have a look at one.

Anyone on here got one?

n97 mini

billy few mates wrote: »

Anyone on here got one?

There are a few. Currently it's probably the best all round EV.

Soarer

Oodles have them. Check the Ioniq thread.

Availability is the main issue with them.

The new Leaf was announced in Japan earlier in the week, and I think the European version is being announced this/next week. Looks a good car, and shouldn't have the supply issues of the Hyundai.

jimmycrackcorm

n97 mini wrote:

I wouldn't think there'll be any changes. We're always the last to do anything.

I'd be sceptical if there are any changes thus year but I foresee that there will be increases in diesel taxation and positive changes for EVs on the future.

There's definitely a gravitation toward EV but we haven't arrived at the point where it's practical to make the changeover.

thierry14

Soarer wrote: »

Oodles have them. Check the Ioniq thread.

Availability is the main issue with them.

The new Leaf was announced in Japan earlier in the week, and I think the European version is being announced this/next week. Looks a good car, and shouldn't have the supply issues of the Hyundai.

Alot similar in power to a Golf GTD too with 150bhp

Ioniq is a bit underpowered in comparison

New Leaf should be quiet a lot more fun to drive with 150 Hp and 250+ Km range. Buying ICE or PHEV would be in my opinion mad unless a hatch is too small for your needs.

Budget 2018 will have nothing more for electric cars and my bet is nothing to fund the charging network, 0 incentives apart from the current pretty decent 10 K off the cost of a new EV, so the only mention of electric cars will be extending the grant and vrt relief

My bet is also that there'll be 0 changes to the taxation on ICE and no disincentives to drive ICE as most in Government if not all of them will drive ICE and have 0 clue about electric cars.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

New Leaf should be quiet a lot more fun to drive with 150 Hp and 250+ Km range. Buying ICE or PHEV would be in my opinion mad unless a hatch is too small for your needs.

Budget 2018 will have nothing more for electric cars and my bet is nothing to fund the charging network, 0 incentives apart from the current pretty decent 10 K off the cost of a new EV, so the only mention of electric cars will be extending the grant and vrt relief

My bet is also that there'll be 0 changes to the taxation on ICE and no disincentives to drive ICE as most in Government if not all of them will drive ICE and have 0 clue about electric cars.

Isn't the CER decision due pretty soon at this stage?

I've been hearing this for half a year, if the Government take ownership I'd be hugely surprised, they won't want to spend the money and they can easily blame the ESB for not improving the network.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been hearing this for half a year, if the Government take ownership I'd be hugely surprised, they won't want to spend the money and they can easily blame the ESB for not improving the network.

That's the problem.
ECars have no interest until they are handed over the network to run unregulated for commercial gain. No one wants to make a decision, and if they do, it's going to be the wrong decision.

The important thing to remember is we don't know what the ESB will do and we do not need another 100 pages of non existing ESB charges, it's been discussed to absolute death.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

The important thing to remember is we don't know what the ESB will do and we do not need another 100 pages of non existing ESB charges, it's been discussed to absolute death.

No, you're right. We don't know what the esb will do.
But we do know what they intended to do in 2015 as an indicator of future performance.

This to me indicates why there should be provisions in the budget towards charger expansion.

NIMAN

I think the Gov has to do something big for EVs in the next Budget.

The uptake has been shockingly low, and if they want to make any in-roads into EV ownership, they have to grasp the nettle.

I think free road tax would be something that would cost them very little but might entice a lot of prospective buyers. The Irish are obsessed with road tax.

Maybe start providing home charge point to secondhand buyers too? Maybe for the next 1000 cars bought?

KCross

I'd say extensions of existing incentives (VRT, Grant, Home charge point etc) but I'd say they will also clarify BIK (make it exempt) and maybe incentivise companies to install charge points.

And finally adding more tax to diesel to bring it in line with petrol, done over several budgets rather than one big bang.

No, the Irish are obsessed with diesel and 700 Km range.....

It's going to take a lot more than free "road tax" to get Irish drivers into electrics, first is range, need 300 kms minimum and more EV models.

My bets are on absolutely nothing new in the budget for electric car incentives and nothing to deter people from ICE, nothing towards the charging network either.

I could be wrong of course, we'll see soon.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

No, the Irish are obsessed with diesel and 700 Km range.....

It's going to take a lot more than free "road tax" to get Irish drivers into electrics, first is range, need 300 kms minimum and more EV models.

My bets are on absolutely nothing new in the budget for electric car incentives and nothing to deter people from ICE, nothing towards the charging network either.

I could be wrong of course, we'll see soon.

I agree but more than 300km is needed. 300km will see the start of a mass change but it's not going to change until charging is as ubiquitous as refueling an ICE.

zilog_jones

Deleted User wrote: »

No, the Irish are obsessed with diesel and 700 Km range.....

They only got obsessed with diesels because of the "chape tax" - diesels were nowhere near as popular as they are now when they cost €600+ p.a. to tax.

I'd like to see increased VRT on diesel passenger cars - I think it would be unfair to make big changes with duty on fuel right now as it will penalise those who already bought diesel mainly for tax reasons.

Sure, my previous diesel had 1000 km range But I'd be happy with 300 km in a BEV, once they exist in my budget (i.e. used). For now, I'll stick to my silly overpriced PHEV :rolleyes: "compliance car" :rolleyes:;) which can do the same range with about 30 litres less fuel.

ELM327

zilog_jones wrote: »

They only got obsessed with diesels because of the "chape tax" - diesels were nowhere near as popular as they are now when they cost €600+ p.a. to tax.

I'd like to see increased VRT on diesel passenger cars - I think it would be unfair to make big changes with duty on fuel right now as it will penalise those who already bought diesel mainly for tax reasons.

Sure, my previous diesel had 1000 km range But I'd be happy with 300 km in a BEV, once they exist in my budget (i.e. used). For now, I'll stick to my silly overpriced PHEV :rolleyes: "compliance car" :rolleyes:;) which can do the same range with about 30 litres less fuel.

I agree with all of this.
(Except of course the laughing at PHEV being a compliance car, but hey we can't win em all!)

Diesels only gained popularity (outside of the target market) due to the cheaper VRT and cheaper motor tax.

I believe that we will see a similar change to BEV once the range is addressed and it's as easy to drive for Joe Cheeseburger and Joan Housewife, so they don't have to think about it, similar to their fossil car now. In order for a mass change to happen you need to tempt the current family who have a 2012 Fluence DCI with a car loan, you need to tempt the family with a new diesel on PCP (where the amount paid on PCP for the more expensive diesel model doesnt come close to being recouped in the term of the pCp). It's not always logic. It's perception. And it's what Jim down the pub says. Currently Jim down the pub laughs at EV. In 2-3-5 years he may be driving one FOR DA CHAPE TAX

oppenheimer1

ELM327 wrote: »

I agree with all of this.
(Except of course the laughing at PHEV being a compliance car, but hey we can't win em all!)

Diesels only gained popularity (outside of the target market) due to the cheaper VRT and cheaper motor tax.

I believe that we will see a similar change to BEV once the range is addressed and it's as easy to drive for Joe Cheeseburger and Joan Housewife, so they don't have to think about it, similar to their fossil car now. In order for a mass change to happen you need to tempt the current family who have a 2012 Fluence DCI with a car loan, you need to tempt the family with a new diesel on PCP (where the amount paid on PCP for the more expensive diesel model doesnt come close to being recouped in the term of the pCp). It's not always logic. It's perception. And it's what Jim down the pub says. Currently Jim down the pub laughs at EV. In 2-3-5 years he may be driving one FOR DA CHAPE TAX

Diesels gained popularity because they were cheaper to tax and fuel than the petrol equivalent and could do everything a petrol car could. If tax and fuel costs were entirely the driver when people are buying the EV would win hands down. But the EV isn't the winning choice on the forecourt, so the real issue need to be addressed -range and choice.

I would be totally against a blanket tax exemption for EVs, but a three year exemption for every new or used vehicle registered in Ireland would be a good idea. It would potentially generate a larger EV market while not allowing a tax exemption to become embedded in peoples expectations.

ELM327

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Diesels gained popularity because they were cheaper to tax and fuel than the petrol equivalent and could do everything a petrol car could.

Ok, agreed so far

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I would be totally against a blanket tax exemption for EVs, but a three year exemption for every new or used vehicle registered in Ireland would be a good idea. It would potentially generate a larger EV market while not allowing a tax exemption to become embedded in peoples expectations.

But then, are we proposing that all cars ICE and BEV and everything in between be taxed the same amount? Because that is ludicrous.

Everything should be taxed pro rata the same amount based on their respective emissions. Even if it's that BEV are applied VRT at 14%, as "0" emissions vehicles, and on a sliding scale then ICE are taxed, like they are now, from 14-36% based on emissions.

BoatMad

The LEV task force comprising DCCAE & DTTAS are considering what incentives to propose to the minister.

BIK is definitely being considered , and a grant towards a CP at home for both new and 2nd EV purchases.

Other incentives such as zero motor taxes and possibly free parking and or zero motorway tolls are under active consideration

There will be little " stick" against diesels other then some rebalancing of the motor tax away from co2

Incentives for the taxi industry , subsidies and policy on new fast chargers are on the cards as well

The next stakeholder meeting is in late September

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

The LEV task force comprising DCCAE & DTTAS are considering what incentives to propose to the minister.

BIK is definitely being considered , and a grant towards a CP at home for both new and 2nd EV purchases.

Other incentives such as zero motor taxes and possibly free parking and or zero motorway tolls are under active consideration

There will be little " stick" against diesels other then some rebalancing of the motor tax away from co2

Incentives for the taxi industry , subsidies and policy on new fast chargers are on the cards as well

The next stakeholder meeting is in late September

What I would love to see introduced here

Is for the goverment to tell those franchise garages that for them to sell diesel/petrol in Ireland they have to install fast chargers at every service station nationwide

oppenheimer1

thierry14 wrote: »

What I would love to see introduced here

Is for the goverment to tell those franchise garages that for them to sell diesel/petrol in Ireland they have to install fast chargers at every service station nationwide

If they do that then commercially viable charging would need to be introduced. And most EV drivers will tell you that they do the vast majority of their charging at home.

Loading €50k fcp installs on garages will meet fierce resistance. The most the govt could do is insist that all garages have a domestic type CP available.

No, it's car manufacturers that need to pay for the infrastructure or the users.

ELM327

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If they do that then commercially viable charging would need to be introduced. And most EV drivers will tell you that they do the vast majority of their charging at home.

Loading €50k fcp installs on garages will meet fierce resistance. The most the govt could do is insist that all garages have a domestic type CP available.

No, it's car manufacturers that need to pay for the infrastructure or the users.

Ignoring the elephant in the room, of the EU fines for emissions, the above makes sense.

I honestly don't think the E.U would impose fines on the Irish taxpayer considering they made us pay for the European banking crisis. They'd be some scum to do that worse than they already are !

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I agree but more than 300km is needed. 300km will see the start of a mass change but it's not going to change until charging is as ubiquitous as refueling an ICE.

Right, so you're talking a decade away really , that's my bet before EV accounts for even 20% of car sales in Ireland and that's probably being very optimistic !

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly don't think the E.U would impose fines on the Irish taxpayer considering they made us pay for the European banking crisis. They'd be some scum to do that worse than they already are !

There's an approximately €600million fine coming in 2019/2020 (can't remember exactly) if we have not improved our emissions.
We have only 2 predominant emissions sections that we can target, Agriculture and transport (in addition to electricity generation).
Agri is a lot more difficult, and electricity gen is not necessarily easy either due to cost, so the best way is transport. Some would argue public transport but in our ~100 years as a nation we have regressed in public transport.
Private transport can be targeted with EV incentivisation.

Why don't we take a percentage of the fine and spend it on initiatives that will make people more likely to change to EV. Make the FCP network dual chargers at major locations. Increase the number around the GDA to reduce queuing. Replace ministerial cars with EV. Incentivise taxi drivers to change (taxi only chargers at ranks for instance). If you take a taxi off the road, and replace it with an EV, that will do the work of changing ~4 family cars.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Right, so you're talking a decade away really , that's my bet before EV accounts for even 20% of car sales in Ireland and that's probably being very optimistic !

We're a backward country, but we respond well to "chape" tax, or "chape" anything really. Look at the likes of Aldi/Lidl for instance. I don't think it will be 10 years for 20%, I think 20% is achievable as soon as a new EV is available on a PCP the same monthly as a comparable ICE, and with 300km real world range. With at least 150kW charging, and an answer to our crappy network of FCP.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

There's an approximately €600million fine coming in 2019/2020 (can't remember exactly) if we have not improved our emissions.
We have only 2 predominant emissions sections that we can target, Agriculture and transport (in addition to electricity generation).
Agri is a lot more difficult, and electricity gen is not necessarily easy either due to cost, so the best way is transport. Some would argue public transport but in our ~100 years as a nation we have regressed in public transport.
Private transport can be targeted with EV incentivisation.

Why don't we take a percentage of the fine and spend it on initiatives that will make people more likely to change to EV. Make the FCP network dual chargers at major locations. Increase the number around the GDA to reduce queuing. Replace ministerial cars with EV. Incentivise taxi drivers to change (taxi only chargers at ranks for instance). If you take a taxi off the road, and replace it with an EV, that will do the work of changing ~4 family cars.

Getting a fine is one thing, paying it is another.

Well for starters, there's far too few ev models.

And you're forgetting that cheap tax on electrics + free , yes , FREE Public charging since 2011 amazingly did not convince a lot of people to buy ev, of course there is still the issue of lack of EV models.

I do hope the 2018 Leaf sells well, I'd like to see a lot on the road.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Getting a fine is one thing, paying it is another.

True. But we seem willing to go along with the EU decisions these days so I can't see us not paying it.

Deleted User wrote: »

Well for starters, there's far too few ev models.

And you're forgetting that cheap tax on electrics + free , yes , FREE Public charging since 2011 amazingly did not convince a lot of people to buy ev, of course there is still the issue of lack of EV models.

I do hope the 2018 Leaf sells well, I'd like to see a lot on the road.

There are too few models, but the range of the gen1 EVs are laughable for most people.
Anyone I transport in the car (eg for work or in laws) for the first time, they invariably love the ride and the spec, but laugh when I tell them the range (or they see the GOM and I explain that it is 20% optimistic!)

Free is one thing, but we also don't like inconvenience and that is the reason there are not more EV on the road right now. What we are waiting for is a point where the inconvenience reduces to make it work for Joe Commonman.

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

What I would love to see introduced here

Is for the goverment to tell those franchise garages that for them to sell diesel/petrol in Ireland they have to install fast chargers at every service station nationwide

NO , large number of single point chargers is not a good idea, what we need are multiple chargers at major transport arteries

BoatMad

With at least 150kW charging, and an answer to our crappy network of FCP.

we are some years before we will see 150kw charging widely available

BoatMad

Why don't we take a percentage of the fine and spend it on initiatives that will make people more likely to change to EV. Make the FCP network dual chargers at major locations. Increase the number around the GDA to reduce queuing. Replace ministerial cars with EV. Incentivise taxi drivers to change (taxi only chargers at ranks for instance). If you take a taxi off the road, and replace it with an EV, that will do the work of changing ~4 family cars.

Incentives for taxis are coming
incentives for a new charging network are also coming
public service is getting a formal procedure to allow buying of EVs

ELM327

BoatMad wrote: »

NO , large number of single point chargers is not a good idea, what we need are multiple chargers at major transport arteries

+10000

BoatMad wrote: »

we are some years before we will see 150kw charging widely available

Agreed but I don't think it will be 10 years.

BoatMad wrote: »

Incentives for taxis are coming
incentives for a new charging network are also coming
public service is getting a formal procedure to allow buying of EVs

All of this is news to me, have not heard sight nor sound of any of the above. Do you have any further info/details/link?

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

NO , large number of single point chargers is not a good idea, what we need are multiple chargers at major transport arteries

Why?

Service stations will need them anyway when ICE is over, good for business

We dont have many transport arteries, whats the point building more

ELM327

thierry14 wrote: »

Why?

Service stations will need them anyway when ICE is over, good for business

We dont have many transport arteries, whats the point building more

Because (as any EV driver will know, particularly in the GDA) single chargers in multiple locations don't work. It causes queues and issues when they are a single point of failure.

Best to have multiple chargers in one, motorway location. I don't know, like 4/8/12 high powered chargers together. I wonder if any company has already thought of that??!! Ahem.... #tesla

BoatMad

All of this is news to me, have not heard sight nor sound of any of the above. Do you have any further info/details/link?

The IEVOA, of which i sit on the committee, is attending the LEV taskforce stakeholder meetings, These are civil servants from DCCAE/DTTAS which are charged with developing policy and advising the cabinet on future incentives, measures and policy

They are actively working through the details of incentives I mentioned, it will be up to the budget process to see what actually makes it into policy, but BIK changes have a good wind behind them and other policies ( taxis , chargers etc ) are longer term then the next budget

Taxis and charges will likely be some form of capital allowances or tax write-offs etc

The two things I hope to see are (a) BIK and (b) grant allowance for home chargers for new or 2nd hand EVS, VRT and SEAI purchase grants will continue ( possibly with some PHEV tweak ) , consideration is being given to nationwide free parking while charging and possible zero motor tax and reduction or removal of tolls on EVs

we shall see what makes budget 2017-2018

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

Because (as any EV driver will know, particularly in the GDA) single chargers in multiple locations don't work. It causes queues and issues when they are a single point of failure.

Best to have multiple chargers in one, motorway location. I don't know, like 4/8/12 high powered chargers together. I wonder if any company has already thought of that??!! Ahem.... #tesla

correct

look at it this way , would you prefer (a) 6 charges within 10km , or (b) 6 chargers in one location

in (a) , you must make a choice , at the latest possible time, to decide which charger to visit, risking that one else slips in front of you. SO you could arrive at a charger that is occupied, even though of the 6 one is still available

in ( b) once all 6 arnt occupied , you know for a fact that you will get on a charger and equally its likely that one will free up and you are right beside it

multiple chargers in fewer locations is way better then lots of single chargers scattered around everywhere.

The UK policy on this is mis-guided imho

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

Because (as any EV driver will know, particularly in the GDA) single chargers in multiple locations don't work. It causes queues and issues when they are a single point of failure.

Best to have multiple chargers in one, motorway location. I don't know, like 4/8/12 high powered chargers together. I wonder if any company has already thought of that??!! Ahem.... #tesla

How would there be queues if they are everywhere?

Where are the motorway locations in Kerry, West Cork etc

We are not the states

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

How would there be queues if they are everywhere?

Where are the motorway locations in Kerry, West Cork etc

We are not the states

because you cant tell in advance if a charger then takes you 5-15 minutes to reach, will actually will be free

Yes at least one of those around you will be free, but you cant tell which one

If they are grouped , it means utilisation is far greater and the likelihood that one of a group is free

Tesla is right in this aspect

Note these parks would be along major arteries , that includes N roads in certain sections of the country, with increasing range, you dont need chargers festooned everywhere

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

because you cant tell in advance if a charger then takes you 5-15 minutes to reach, will actually will be free

Yes at least one of those around you will be free, but you cant tell which one

If they are grouped , it means utilisation is far greater and the likelihood that on e of a group is free

Tesla is right in this aspect

I know what you are saying, agree those huge sites are great too, but what if i wanted to do wild atlantic way as most tourists do, no motorway stations there

Stations shouldn't be free either

If we want good services we should pay

Won't be any queues then and people taking the piss, charging for the sake of it

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

I know what you are saying, agree those huge sites are great too, but what if i wanted to do wild atlantic way as most tourists do, no motorway stations there

Stations shouldn't be free either

If we want good services we should pay

Won't be any queues then and people taking the piss, charging for the sake of it

The free charging will end in 2018 , thats a given

however , simply because you pay doesn't ( a) guarantee any level of service , (b) make the service actually commercial or ( c) ensure that any extra chargers are added

its a fallacy to simply equate pricing with "better ". Yes , it will remove those that could charge elsewhere ( typically at home ) but thats about all, and I suspect as EV grow especially in the GDA, we will have a serious congestion issue

( I was suprised yesterday , how chargers in the Dublin era are now under far more pressure , then even a few months ago , Lucan was jammers, even Bray had a Leaf in front of me , then me and then a Ioniq , arrived all within minutes )


As for the wild Atlantic way, the fact is the provision of chargers will be non commercial, so we will rely on Gov incentives anyway
and anyway with increasing range , the need for these chargers will reduce and so will be grouped outside major conurbations , Limerick, Galway, etc

As an aside very few petrol stations actually have the space for EV charging unless they remove petrol pumps, while this will happen in time, its not a practical solution for many stations

ELM327

thierry14 wrote: »

How would there be queues if they are everywhere?

Where are the motorway locations in Kerry, West Cork etc

We are not the states

M and N roads to be precise.
Major roads.

unkel

thierry14 wrote: »

Alot similar in power to a Golf GTD too with 150bhp

Ioniq is a bit underpowered in comparison

Don't want to take this further off thread, but you obviously haven't driven Ioniq. It is quicker off the mark than the 184BHP Golf 2l GTD diesel. To 100km/h the Golf is slightly quicker. And in normal day to day driving the Ioniq feels quicker as the torque is instant and you do not have the turbo lag of the Golf

And the Irish pricing:

Ioniq on the road: €25k
Golf D 184bhp diesel auto on the road: €42k

Don't get me wrong, the Golf is an excellent car, the eGolf probably the best family size EV this side of the Teslas, but they are not cheap for what you get.

thierry14

unkel wrote: »

Don't want to take this further off thread, but you obviously haven't driven Ioniq. It is quicker off the mark than the 184BHP Golf 2l GTD diesel. To 100km/h the Golf is slightly quicker. And in normal day to day driving the Ioniq feels quicker as the torque is instant and you do not have the turbo lag of the Golf

And the Irish pricing:

Ioniq on the road: €25k
Golf D 184bhp diesel auto on the road: €42k

Don't get me wrong, the Golf is an excellent car, the eGolf probably the best family size EV this side of the Teslas, but they are not cheap for what you get.

No I haven't drove the Ioniq

Drove the Leaf and it would be pretty similar, maybe a tad slower being 10bhp down

It was fine, like a 1.6 diesel once past 30kmh, good acceleration for a second or two then lacking power

Ioniq I'd imagine is similar?

Don't think it's comparable at all to 184bhp Dsg Golf TDi

It would be left for dead once past 50kmh as figures below show

Even up 0 - 100kmh it's not close

7 vs 10 secs

Dsg box is brilliant too

Leaf 2 with 150bhp now could compete everywhere bar high speed

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel6856-6659.htm

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

No I haven't drove the Ioniq

Drove the Leaf and it would be pretty similar, maybe a tad slower being 10bhp down

It was fine, like a 1.6 diesel once past 30kmh, good acceleration for a second or two then lacking power

Ioniq I'd imagine is similar?

Don't think it's comparable at all to 184bhp Dsg Golf TDi

It would be left for dead once past 50kmh as figures below show

Even up 0 - 100kmh it's not close

7 vs 10 secs

Dsg box is brilliant too

Leaf 2 with 150bhp now could compete everywhere bar high speed

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel6856-6659.htm

extracting 0-40 speeds from an ICE is actually a skilled job , one that the average driver simply will not achieve , siting at a set of traffic lights

extracting the same thing from an electric motor , is piss simple, whack the pedal as fast as you can !!!

the net result is the electric car will simply , in real life, be faster

thierry14

@ Unkel

Watched below

0-50kmh is very impressive, looks like 3 secs, Golf 184bhp even with Dsg won't match that, even the Gti wouldn't I'd say, that is good

0-100kmh

Around 9.0-9.5 secs, not bad, but nothing special

100-150kmh its not great, certainly no where near 184bhg Golf Gtd

Leaf 2 should be alot better past 50kmh than the Ioniq

https://youtu.be/HCrx-L7n_1U

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

extracting 0-40 speeds from an ICE is actually a skilled job , one that the average driver simply will not achieve , siting at a set of traffic lights

extracting the same thing from an electric motor , is piss simple, whack the pedal as fast as you can !!!

the net result is the electric car will simply , in real life, be faster

Dsg Golf Unkel reffered to is the same thing

Manufacturers time all day, whacking the pedal