Other roles using the word 'Engineer'

Orwellmerchant

Hi, I am a Civil Engineer from DIT and first time thread maker!

Recently I have noticed just how many jobs and people claim to be engineers.

Roles including people who carry out gas boiler servicing to those who install telephones and television packages.

Do any other engineers who have studied at 3rd level for an undergrad in engineering find this frustrating? Surely this wouldn't happen in other professions such as law and medicine.

Blacktie.

I used to. Then I realised it doesn't matter.

i71jskz5xu42pb

I was raging when I saw there's some guy on Sodor who just fixes locomotives claiming to be an Engineer.
The cheek of the upstart!

marcus001

Its like people calling themselves entrepreneurs on LinkedIn. Apparently you can be an entrepreneur without owning a company.

greenfield21

I think there was something a while back about making it a protected title because it is overused. Maybe it was in UK don't think much happened though. Just get chartership and that will make you feel special.

draiochtanois

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Orwellmerchant

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Yes, I have a BE.

draiochtanois

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Orwellmerchant

draiochtanois wrote: »

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It must be great to be an authority on these matters. Thanks for all that information , have a fun filled day.

Marlay

If they are carrying out a role that could be described as engineering, then I don't see a problem in using the term engineer. It has been around a long time. Its not as if they are claiming to have a degree in an engineering discipline by using it.

Super hoop

I'm a gas engineer and a plumber. When people ask me what I do...I say I'm a plumber who also fixes gas boilers etc. Means nothing really...but the money is great

Pelvis

Orwellmerchant wrote: »

Yes, I have a BE.

Am I a Scientist if I have a B.Sc?

jimmycrackcorm

draiochtanois wrote:

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What about DIT computing grads?

draiochtanois

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Blacktie.

draiochtanois wrote:

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draiochtanois wrote:

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Wow. Nice attitude buddy!

paulbok

Orwellmerchant wrote: »

It must be great to be an authority on these matters. Thanks for all that information , have a fun filled day.

Well, you did ask

draiochtanois

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thebsharp

Life's too short to be worrying about stuff like that. You know what you've achieved, and so will anyone you ever work with throughout your career.

Dardania

Orwellmerchant wrote: »

Hi, I am a Civil Engineer from DIT and first time thread maker!

Recently I have noticed just how many jobs and people claim to be engineers.

Roles including people who carry out gas boiler servicing to those who install telephones and television packages.

Do any other engineers who have studied at 3rd level for an undergrad in engineering find this frustrating? Surely this wouldn't happen in other professions such as law and medicine.

It can "de-value" your achievement, indeed, but it might also point to insecurity...

Apply for chartered engineer, and then lobby through EI to ensure that more & more proper engineering qualification requiring actions require a chartered engineer. That's the only real way I can think to not devlue the term engineer.
The other way to look at it is that all the modern engineers robbed the title from previous, proper engineers, like those that engineered steam trains etc.

The Rape of Lucretia

Orwellmerchant wrote: »

Surely this wouldn't happen in other professions such as law and medicine.

Turf accountant, tree surgeon, social scientist, X-Factor judge.

Oh, and software 'engineer'.

Concern for use of the word is just a mix of insecurity and snobbery for me.

mikhail

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Not to defend the computer scientists of DIT, but that sort of thing is often centralised now.

Poor Uncle Tom

Don't think I've ever been in a pi**ing competition thread before......

Sleeper12

greenfield21 wrote: »

I think there was something a while back about making it a protected title because it is overused. Maybe it was in UK don't think much happened though. Just get chartership and that will make you feel special.

Broken tv = "we'll send out an engineer"

Broken fridge = "we'll send out an engineer"

Broken electric shower = "we'll send out an engineer"

Broken Air conditioning = "we'll send out an engineer"

There must be 10 times more people not trained in engineering called "engineers" than the real deal Qualified engineer in Ireland. Same setup in UK & the States

Having said that I thing most people know the difference & won't call the TV repair man when they need a structural engineer

Dardania

Dardania wrote: »

...............

Apply for chartered engineer, and then lobby through EI to ensure that more & more proper engineering qualification requiring actions require a chartered engineer. That's the only real way I can think to not devlue the term engineer...................

That just ensures chartered engineer isn't devalued (presuming you place any value on the title currently).

I know and work with loads of engineers who aren't chartered and have no intention of bothering.

kirving

I do mind people who have not qualified as Engineers using the title - even though it's not protected. It devalues the profession as a whole when anyone who picks up a spanner calls themselves an engineer.

Make no mistake, this type of thing directly effects your salary, because when companies are determining their payscales, "Engineers" all get bundled together.

The reason why unqualified people want to tag engineer onto their job title, is because it matters, to pay, to benefits, to recognition. They're not doing it for the sake of it. Plumbers and carpenters would be far more entitled than many to call themselves engineers, but they don't see a need because their professionalism is recognised - and they're paid accordingly.

The root cause of this problem though is Irish (and probably UK and US) society overvaluing a college education. There are plenty of satellite installers who would do a much better job than I could, and that should be recognized too.

I did hear an engineer say he could design a power station but couldn't wire a house - and that's how it should be.

The Rape of Lucretia

Augeo wrote: »

That just ensures chartered engineer isn't devalued (presuming you place any value on the title currently).

I know and work with loads of engineers who aren't chartered and have no intention of bothering.

Are chartered engineers not just a tarted up protectionist trade union ?

Never joined. Never taken any notice of it, whether with engineers I have worked with, for, or hired over the years.

The Rape of Lucretia

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Make no mistake, this type of thing directly effects your salary, because when companies are determining their payscales, "Engineers" all get bundled together.

Nonsense. No company lumps the photocopy machine engineer with the electronic engineer.

First Up

bigtimecharlie wrote:

He'll be on news talk at 8:40pm this evening.

In the US, bouncers are sometimes called Crowd Control Engineers and binmen, Sanitary Engineers.

But then some folk call Donald Trump President so go figure.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Are chartered engineers not just a tarted up protectionist trade union ?

Never joined. Never taken any notice of it, whether with engineers I have worked with, for, or hired over the years.

I'd agree with your sentiment.
It's a handy way for some companies to lash out goals and objectives though for the ole annual review .......... there's enough eager beavers out there to jump through the hoops.

Dardania

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Augeo wrote: »

That just ensures chartered engineer isn't devalued (presuming you place any value on the title currently).

I know and work with loads of engineers who aren't chartered and have no intention of bothering.

Are chartered engineers not just a tarted up protectionist trade union ?

Never joined. Never taken any notice of it, whether with engineers I have worked with, for, or hired over the years.

CEng is more relevant to some engineering roles than others. Civil/Structural engineers and also partially electrical: it's a big deal. Also, a single CEng can merge the work of many non chartered engineers
Other engineers don't perform work that has as large safety consequence like electronics (and I use the term consequence to say the fall out if a mistake is made e.g. building falling down, fire alarm not alarming and getting people out). 
The value of having a CEng do this is it implies a minimum standard of engineer, and some wider accountability if they don't perform their job properly - keeps everyone on the straight and narrow.

EagererBeaver

Orwellmerchant wrote: »

Hi, I am a Civil Engineer from DIT and first time thread maker!

Recently I have noticed just how many jobs and people claim to be engineers.

Roles including people who carry out gas boiler servicing to those who install telephones and television packages.

Do any other engineers who have studied at 3rd level for an undergrad in engineering find this frustrating? Surely this wouldn't happen in other professions such as law and medicine.

No.

Dardania

Dardania wrote: »

CEng is more relevant to some engineering roles than others. Civil/Structural engineers and also partially electrical: it's a big deal. ...............

Indeed, to be fair they are essentially two a penny and paid accordingly so the CEng gig/speel/ordeal might well be a hoop some are happy to jump through to get more wages etc.........http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057532957

kirving

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nonsense. No company lumps the photocopy machine engineer with the electronic engineer.

Well, since two wholly different jobs have the same name, why wouldn't someone who doesn't know any better lump the two together? Because I'm a mechanical engineer, and service my own car, and my day job is for an automotive company, some very well educated people I know compare my work to a mechanic.

It's not snobbery on my part either, a good mechanic will be better place to fix a car than I ever will be, but he's not an engineer, and I'm not a mechanic.

His job or my job will never be respected as highly skilled (which it absolutely is) if people think he's a second rate engineer, or I'm a jumped up mechanic -they're entirely different and should be referred to as such.

Dardania

Someone showed me this image a few years ago about the spectrum of engineering - helps show a nice overview:

https://goo.gl/images/Deyt5k

SpannerMonkey

look up the word in a dictionary . its a pretty broad title

engineer
ɛndʒɪˈnɪə/Submit
noun
1.
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
synonyms: designer, planner, builder, architect, producer, fabricator, developer, creator; More
2.
a person who controls an engine, especially on an aircraft or ship.
synonyms: engineering officer, controller, handler, driver; More
verb
1.
design and build (a machine or structure).
"the men who engineered the tunnel"
2.
skilfully arrange for (something) to occur.
"she engineered another meeting with him"
synonyms: bring about, cause, arrange, pull off, bring off, fix, set up, plot, scheme, contrive, plan, put together, devise, manoeuvre, manipulate, negotiate, organize, orchestrate, choreograph, mobilize, mount, stage, put on, mastermind, originate, manage, stage-manage, coordinate, control, superintend, direct, conduct, handle, concoct; More

fg1406

I did a BEng about 12 years ago. This was a topic myself and my husband laugh about as he has a Masters in Mechanical Engineering. One of our mutual friends did a one year plc course after the LC in autocad and is calling himself a Cad and Mechanical Design Engineer.

kirving

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

look up the word in a dictionary . its a pretty broad title

Look up Architect and you'll find similar, but it's protected.

lawred2

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Oh, and software 'engineer'.

ye wha?

lawred2

I might add that some of history's greatest engineers had zero 'qualifications'

Yer man Galileo was a right spoofer... where were his quals?

As it goes - I'm a software engineer and in my time I've met a few top notch engineers, who more than deserve the title, who were self taught

y0ssar1an22

any one can call themselves accountants as far as i know. it was also the same with physio's a few ago, but they won a case and now any non-physio's are called physical therapists. i think the accounting profession are trying to put a stop to this.

i dont find it frustrating, but if will help the person on the street make a more informed decision, well then its a good idea.

Cedrus

I have worked in engineering all my working life, despite "only" being a Draughtsman. I have worked with first year students who called themselves engineers. I have worked with fully qualified engineers in suppliers who cannot do anything without their bespoke manufacturers software. I have worked with at least two engineers (one with a masters degree kept specifying pipe or circuit breaker sizes that did not exist "but the text book says this is the optimum size"! I currently work with several engineers (one of them chartered) who would be lost without google. The best engineers I have ever met usually started on the tools or as technicians.

To me an engineer is somebody who can design or commission a system that works or somebody who can repair a system that doesn't.

tayto lover

I know a lad who calls himself a Consultant. He's a great lad but he knows f**k-all about anything.

lawred2

tayto lover wrote: »

I know a lad who calls himself a Consultant. He's a great lad but he knows f**k-all about anything.

lol

Accenture as an organisation have been doing that for a long while now... dubbing their new grads as consultants for billing purposes. The majority of them would be utterly clueless.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

..................

As it goes - I'm a software engineer and in my time I've met a few top notch engineers, who more than deserve the title, who were self taught

I'm all for IT ish folk using the term engineer once it's prefaced by IT, Software etc etc etc.
That's the key really.
Sky Install Engineer, Elevator service engineer etc etc............ the term engineer on it's own it quite meaningless.

I liaised with a CNC operator once, he described himself as an engineer at the top of his game.

2011

I have just returned from commissioning a project in Poland. I was surprised when the person that I assumed was an automation engineer refered to himself as an electrician. I found this kind of refreshing

I have spent many years working with automation engineers and this individual is as good as any of them and having worked literally all over the world is more experienced than most. As it happened he also did a designed the control panels.

josip

Is there a pecking order within engineering between Electrical, Mechanical, Civil ?

Dardania

josip wrote: »

Is there a pecking order within engineering between Electrical, Mechanical, Civil ?

There is, in some people's heads! And interesting the order you put them in...

Sleeper12

Casey Jones will always be my number one engineer

ChippingSodbury

josip wrote: »

Is there a pecking order within engineering between Electrical, Mechanical, Civil ?

Not so sure about Electrical Engineers, but:
Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build targets...
so, obviously Mechanical Engineers are at the top of the food chain

flaneur

Why doesn't the engineering sector just come up with a protected term like Chartered Engineer or something like that?

The term "engineer" predates the modern professional use of it.

Dr_Bill

Maybe the government needs to open up an IT in Mullingar... where did you study and get your degree from?? MIT :-D