Staff Taking advantage in a easy going office

Nalz

Hi there,

I'mmanager of a team of 5 people. I was promoted from within the team a few months back as the manager left the country. I have a problem, whereby the culture and ethos of the company doesn't help.

I have a team whereby they don't have real KPIs or figures to hit. They don't have targets. The job my team have, or 90% of it, is based off trust. It's an easy going company (has the odd communicational and empathy issues between departments) with great people. There is no bad blood, or at least none I can see.

One particular staff member works at 50%. They come in, do a small bit of work, have one or two work related conversations spread across the day, then thats it. The rest of the day is spent with facebook, hotmail, instagram, skype and whatsapp full screen, battering away on the keyboard as loud as I've ever heard anyone type. Not a bother. A lot of the convos are negative which can be posionous and spread across the office.

Work hours/time sometimes is an issue, but again unless its ridiculous levels everyone turns a blind eye and its just based off work and a good office atmosphere.

Now, yes, I should pull this person up and grow a pair... but the culture of the office, and the relaxed attitude doesn’t help my situation. My boss, who's very high up and is only around 3 days a week, doesn't want me coming to his office with these issues. I've tried to go there seeking advice/support, but got feck all back. I want to solve this by myself. Kills me as I've never had that attitude in a work place. When I was on the money this person was on, I worked very hard to get it

Some use whatsapp facebook etc from time to time, that’s cool, but this is ridiculous levels and quite obvious.

The entitlement and victim cards will be thrown back at me if I approach this with the pinch of authority. "That guy in this department does that, why can't I" etc etc. It will spread to the other younger generation via various chat mechanisms (take your pick in this circumstance). To add to it, this person sits across from me, so a quick glance to the right and I can see everything.

Any suggestions how I approach this softly or intelligently, without me being the bad guy and the topic of the gossip, and more importantly prevent the negativity and b!tchy attitude spreading?

Boom_Bap

I had the same thing recently, I just pulled aside the person and told them that their social life on the internet is affecting their work. I told them that by no means am I saying to stop internetting, but to reduce the focus on it and use it as a reward for completing a goal.

Sesame

If they are doing that, then they are not getting work done. Concentrate on the work they have not done. How is their performance and how can your team work without any performance or goals?

Do you have weekly or daily update meetings where you check in on what they have done or how do you check on their work?

Do they meet customers and there isn't any or it is simply quiet with no work to do?

If thats the case then find work for them, or tell your boss you are over-resourced with no work for them.

I would stop telling them to get off the internet and start micro managing a bit more to see what it is they are not doing work wise.

Theres's nice ways to do it. You don't need to be forceful about it. Help them with finding some satisfaction from their work and empower them.

gerrycollins

while it very relaxed are the job targets getting hit by the team?

do you have daily or weekly team meetings?

is there a tracking method of lost work hours to the boss, the wasting of money might make his head turn.

Maybe all managers need to get together and start a total crackdown on personal pc work on company time. at least a widespread challenge to the practice can prevent the old "well johnny upstairs is on too" can be stopped if all focus on stopping it company wide.

Tony EH

Frankly, if the work is getting done, you have nothing to worry about.

Be thankful you work in an office that generates a "good office atmosphere". Nothing is worse than going into an office each that has clouds hanging over it. Believe me.

As someone who's led teams, unless there is an impact on work/quality of work...surfing/chatting etc, shouldn't be an issue as far as I'm concerned. When it starts to interfere with output, then that's the time to step in and have a gentle word.

Stepping in too early, when there isn't really a problem can do more damage than you'd want.

seamus

As the others above say, focus on the work that isn't getting done as opposed to the amount of time spent arsing about. There may be no hard stats, but it's pretty obvious when someone isn't getting through the work they've been given, is constantly late delivering things, doesn't respond to emails for days, etc etc.

If the work is still getting done, if there are no issues with that, then you have someone who is bored as hell. Nobody wants to go to work and spend the day surfing and chatting. As someone who had a job where I could have gone an entire week responding to 4 emails and web surfing the rest of the time, believe me a day where I barely get time to check my messages is a good day, where a day spent on boards all day, is a bad day.

If they're bored, give them stuff to do. Find something engaging to do and give it to them.

It can also help to point out to them that, "some people have mentioned" that the person appears to be spending a lot of time surfing the web. Make them aware that people can see their screen and have noticed that social media is open on their screen for most of the day. Sometimes being told that you're not operating in a bubble can be a good kick in the arse to take stock of what you're doing. You're not telling them that they can't, simply that the amount of time spent fncking about instead of working, has been noticed by others.

hawkwind23

problem with these queries is that we only get your point of view and being frank it seems you have an issue with one or two personalities more than anything else, with the employee who sits in front of you getting the brunt of it.
As a public forum my view is that you are the one with the chip on your shoulder and the bad egg in what seems a productive and genuine office.
Your personality type is what destroys once good working environments.
You havent given any factual information on the loss of performance only your opinion of those "under" you , in fact you allude to their salary/work input with a hint of bitterness.
I personally feel bad for the workers you have decided you want to target.
Also annoys me the pettiness these managers have for certain individuals , maybe if you spent less time focusing on your own work rather than judging how hard a person hits a keyboard.
And further annoys me that they are so incompetent in people skills that they come onto internet forums to ask how to deal with the most basic of things.

Sounds like your the one lucky to be there! Try to smile and get along with people better

Sunny Dayz

Make your focus more on the work that is being done/ not done rather on the amount of time that is spend on social media.


If you go in all negative with "you're spending too much time on the internet" : employee will get defensive, will get negative towards you and you will be seen as a killjoy.


But if you make the focus more about the work, they can't really give out about that. You aren't telling them to stop using the internet, you are just making them work which is what they are there to do.


Little things like daily/weekly meetings or catch ups in relation to work - where are we on this file, what's left to do on this, what are were awaiting for this one ,when is this report due. Keep bringing the focus back to work items. If you know Mary is currently surfing the net, innocently interrupt her with "How's that report coming along Mary?", "Did so-and-so come back about that query?" and bring her focus back to her work.


However if you find that your team don't have enough work to do, then that's not the problem of your team members but one for you and those above you sort out.

B-D-P--

Have you scheduled team meetings,
You should bring this up to the team as a whole that you'd like them to focus more on work and less on social media, Does the company have a policy on this?
You can say its coming from top down that they are trying to clamp down on this and you in turn are looking to enforce it more.

jamesthepeach

I worked in a office a few years ago where the boss went on the internet to ask what to do about staff going on the internet.
What he didn't know was that the it Dept were able to figure out his account and that went around the office like wildfire.

Everything he has ever posted since is the subject of gossip and laughter. I don't work there anymore but I'm pretty sure he still doesn't know.

You need software to block all sites not related to work.

B-D-P--

jamesthepeach wrote: »

You need software to block all sites not related to work.

Will big corps not have detection of these kind of softwares?

Nalz

Thanks all for the input... Will reply back when I have time! Really appreciate it.

Tony EH wrote: »

As someone who's led teams, unless there is an impact on work/quality of work...surfing/chatting etc, shouldn't be an issue as far as I'm concerned. When it starts to interfere with output, then that's the time to step in and have a gentle word.

Hey Tony, this post caught my eye. Thanks for that! It makes sense, I agree. A lot of people respect the company and its easy going atmosphere, in turn they give something back. But I don't want to create unnecessary mayhem.

I think I need to introduce slightly more measured targets, just a little tweak... and somehow get them working on things they enjoy that will benefit the team and the company.

jamesthepeach

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Will big corps not have detection of these kind of softwares?

Well presumably it would be the company itself installing and monitoring the software.

jimmycrackcorm

hawkwind23 wrote:

problem with these queries is that we only get your point of view and being frank it seems you have an issue with one or two personalities more than anything else, with the employee who sits in front of you getting the brunt of it. As a public forum my view is that you are the one with the chip on your shoulder and the bad egg in what seems a productive and genuine office. Your personality type is what destroys once good working environments. You havent given any factual information on the loss of performance only your opinion of those "under" you , in fact you allude to their salary/work input with a hint of bitterness. I personally feel bad for the workers you have decided you want to target. Also annoys me the pettiness these managers have for certain individuals , maybe if you spent less time focusing on your own work rather than judging how hard a person hits a keyboard. And further annoys me that they are so incompetent in people skills that they come onto internet forums to ask how to deal with the most basic of things.

You sound like the employee that the op is talking about.

Op, talk to the employee directly and ask them how they feel about the job, is it satisfying, do they feel productive. Make the questions open and allow them to suggest how they could be more focused. If they don't suggest anything then mention it appears they are unfulfilled in the role because of the time spent online.

You can make it clear there is no objection to using the internet for sine personal use but you are more concerned about then feeling under used and valued.

Nalz

hawkwind23 wrote: »

problem with these queries is that we only get your point of view and being frank it seems you have an issue with one or two personalities more than anything else, with the employee who sits in front of you getting the brunt of it.
As a public forum my view is that you are the one with the chip on your shoulder and the bad egg in what seems a productive and genuine office.
Your personality type is what destroys once good working environments.
You havent given any factual information on the loss of performance only your opinion of those "under" you , in fact you allude to their salary/work input with a hint of bitterness.
I personally feel bad for the workers you have decided you want to target.
Also annoys me the pettiness these managers have for certain individuals , maybe if you spent less time focusing on your own work rather than judging how hard a person hits a keyboard.
And further annoys me that they are so incompetent in people skills that they come onto internet forums to ask how to deal with the most basic of things.

Sounds like your the one lucky to be there! Try to smile and get along with people better

Wow... hard hitting there! I hear what you are saying, but I think you've picked up on things wrong and don't know all the facts. I don't want to share everything. I'm not the only one who sees this, in fact many have come to me pointing this out. Nobody with a major chip on their shoulders, just saying that mister x is spending a lot of time on this site etc. Not management mind, just senior people.

There is a negative attitude coming from one indidivual, and a sense of entitlement. I do have facts, just wouldn't share them here nor is it easy to summarize them. I for one am kinda happy, to a point, with the level of work, its on the threshold of "just enough". There is some good points on here in terms of getting the best out of these people and protecting them. The person in question was repremanded (not directly) in a department email that came from their ex boss, who was pushed on it by the owners who witnessed a few things.

You are correct regarding the bitterness. Human nature. Again, I'm actually paraphrasing a colleague there when making a comment about this guy. The truth of it is, just doing enough or not enough in an easy going environment coupled with making it obvious to others the internet usage is not great. I'm just reaching out for opinions on the most delicate way to approach. This is a nice person, who's ripping the p*ss and I think the responsibility is with me as well as this person to take more ownership and become more involved and productive.

Maybe my people skills in this context is poor, my bad. I'm trying to learn here!

Tony EH

Nalz wrote: »

Hey Tony, this post caught my eye. Thanks for that! It makes sense, I agree. A lot of people respect the company and its easy going atmosphere, in turn they give something back. But I don't want to create unnecessary mayhem.

I think I need to introduce slightly more measured targets, just a little tweak... and somehow get them working on things they enjoy that will benefit the team and the company.

I'd say further, that the only real target you need to focus on is the deadlines that the team/individuals need to be hitting. Anything else can be superfluous and end up being more of a headache for you to track more than anything else.

As said, if your stated deadlines are being met, then you have no problem. I wouldn't care if so and so if on Facebook all day, so long as they turn in their work on time and to a standard that's required.

Here's a thing. If you find that people are idling (and I mean than in the nicest way - we all have down time) then pull in your deadlines, if the capacity is there to do so and they remain realistic.

It can be irritating, if you've a report to write up and someone is there on Boards.ie all day . But just put it out of your head.

Bottom line is, don't be that manager. Be the guy/girl that your team likes/respects. Be easy going, but serious about the work/deadlines. In the long run it's better for you and the team. Especially when you have to ask them to put in extra effort on a particular project or whatever.

Trust me though, love the relaxed atmosphere. You might not get it again in the next job and you will miss it.

Nalz

Tony EH wrote: »

I'd say further, that the only real target you need to focus on is the deadlines that the team/individuals need to be hitting. Anything else can be superfluous and end up being more of a headache for you to track more than anything else.

As said, if your stated deadlines are being met, then you have no problem. I wouldn't care if so and so if on Facebook all day, so long as they turn in their work on time and to a standard that's required.

Here's a thing. If you find that people are idling (and I mean than in the nicest way - we all have down time) then pull in your deadlines, if the capacity is there to do so and they remain realistic.

It can be irritating, if you've a report to write up and someone is there on Boards.ie all day . But just put it out of your head.

Bottom line is, don't be that manager. Be the guy/girl that your team likes/respects. Be easy going, but serious about the work/deadlines. In the long run it's better for you and the team. Especially when you have to ask them to put in extra effort on a particular project or whatever.

Trust me though, love the relaxed atmosphere. You might not get it again in the next job and you will miss it.

I agree. I want to be nice guy, I love the relaxed atmosphere and know that the grass isn't greener. I just want them to respect the place a bit more and give a little back. Just 5%, show you care, there's an opportunity to grow in here. Use it!! Anyways I may get back to it. Thank you all for the feedback.

Teyla Emmagan

Get IT to block all those sites. No self respecting organisation gives you access to Facebook. That's a joke.

Where my sister works they spend all day watching TV online. It is beyond me.

Nalz

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Get IT to block all those sites. No self respecting organisation gives you access to Facebook. That's a joke.

Where my sister works they spend all day watching TV online. It is beyond me.

Unless your company uses facebook!

Teyla Emmagan

Nalz wrote:

Unless your company uses facebook!

Then like 1 person should have access to it.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

You're a little over dramatic. What about all the companies who rely on social media such as Facebook etc.

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Get IT to block all those sites. No self respecting organisation gives you access to Facebook. That's a joke.
...

P_1

Is there any sort of bonus in play that is measured as a team output that you could subtly shift towards being more measured on individual output?

seamus

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Get IT to block all those sites. No self respecting organisation gives you access to Facebook. That's a joke.

Where my sister works they spend all day watching TV online. It is beyond me.

I've worked in plenty of places where there are varying levels of locked-down or liberal internet access.

It's very much a horses for courses scenario. If you have a company where turnover is high, employee engagement is naturally low and employee loyalty is low (think of a call centre that employs mostly students), then having tight internet restrictions is a good idea.

If you are employed qualified people in professional roles and paying them good money, then having heavily locked-down internet makes your workplace a less attractive one to work. It gives the impression that you don't trust employees, that they're constantly being monitored, and creates a school-like impression between the company and the employee.

Imagine a firm of solicitors requiring people to clock in and out every day. You'd quickly lose everyone except the career wasters who are happy to twiddle their thumbs so long as they've punched their card.

Heavily restricted internet access is the same. You're telling grown and educated adults that they cannot be trusted and need to be monitored and restricted like children.

One of the big things I have to note anecdotally is that locking down internet access doesn't make a bad employee a good one. And likewise liberal internet access doesn't turn a good employee into a bad one.

It should be locked down just enough to protect the company from the assholes that it will inevitably hire. But that's about it.

AndrewJRenko

Locking down Internet access will just mean he'll switching to using his phone instead of his PC.

limnam

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Get IT to block all those sites. No self respecting organisation gives you access to Facebook. That's a joke.

Companies still implement URL blocking?

How quaint

jamesthepeach

seamus wrote: »

I've worked in plenty of places where there are varying levels of locked-down or liberal internet access.

It's very much a horses for courses scenario. If you have a company where turnover is high, employee engagement is naturally low and employee loyalty is low (think of a call centre that employs mostly students), then having tight internet restrictions is a good idea.

If you are employed qualified people in professional roles and paying them good money, then having heavily locked-down internet makes your workplace a less attractive one to work. It gives the impression that you don't trust employees, that they're constantly being monitored, and creates a school-like impression between the company and the employee.

Imagine a firm of solicitors requiring people to clock in and out every day. You'd quickly lose everyone except the career wasters who are happy to twiddle their thumbs so long as they've punched their card.

Heavily restricted internet access is the same. You're telling grown and educated adults that they cannot be trusted and need to be monitored and restricted like children.

One of the big things I have to note anecdotally is that locking down internet access doesn't make a bad employee a good one. And likewise liberal internet access doesn't turn a good employee into a bad one.

It should be locked down just enough to protect the company from the assholes that it will inevitably hire. But that's about it.

I was in a company a few years ago where they decided to do clocking in and clocking out at particular times via PC. It had the opposite effect.
People who normally stayed til all hours and did work at home , on the train etc took offence and said sod this. Make me clock in and out at specific times and that's the time you'll get from me and no more.
The place has never recovered.

Full Marx

OP does anyone above you care? If not, why should you? If this is the culture of the company, just go with it - remember it is not your company.

Is the work getting done? If so, whats the problem? If not focus on the work that isn't being done rather than going after people using facebook.

If you have got promoted from within the group and you start coming out with KPIs etc when no one has had them before prepare for the nice atmosphere to vanish.

py2006

Demonstrate on general terms to the group as a hole that work isn't being done, reasonable targets not reached etc etc and put it to THEM to offer reasons as to why this is...

py2006

You could also come up with targets for them yourself.

screamer

Have you asked your boss what your focus should be? Have you also asked your team members about focus areas they feel the team should be concentrating on.....or not....as the case may be? You need to really find out not just think .....guestimates etc. Have you had individual meetings with them?
As someone who was promoted from within the team did you see these "issues" before promotion? If not chances are no one else does either. You need to be careful how to approach the subject. If the team feels you are unfairly targeting someone they feel is part of their team they will close ranks on you and then you'll find it very hard to manage that team.
My approach after serious fact finding and direction setting for myself as a manager would be to use that person's interest in social media to help the company. Get them some training and get them working on the Twitter account answering questions or posting up useful articles or product features on Facebook. People are smart and to manage them effectively you've got to be smarter and pick your battles.

screamer

py2006 wrote: »

Demonstrate on general terms to the group as a hole that work isn't being done, reasonable targets not reached etc etc and put it to THEM to offer reasons as to why this is...

Don't do this unless the whole team is failing. It will annoy those who are doing their fair share whilst those who aren't will think "it's not me".

Tony EH

There has to be actual, measurable "failures" going on first. If there isn't, then there's no problem.

People surfing and chatting during the day in an easy going office is not a failure.

Larbre34

Sounds like the business has a surplus of people to me. Its a mystery why any investor in this is happy to have a team that operates with no parameters or expectations.

For the sake of the business, put targets and performance indicators in place and start managing this crew, then if they fail to perform begin a fair process and eventually invoke disciplinary procedures. They need to have fair warning of all this new system in advance.

You should do this not for them, but for yourself. This business will fail eventually if that's the way its managed and you will need these skills for your next role.

ELM327

Full Marx wrote: »

OP does anyone above you care? If not, why should you? If this is the culture of the company, just go with it - remember it is not your company.

Is the work getting done? If so, whats the problem? If not focus on the work that isn't being done rather than going after people using facebook.

If you have got promoted from within the group and you start coming out with KPIs etc when no one has had them before prepare for the nice atmosphere to vanish.

That's the issue, there will then be subsequent questions from within the team that you were promoted from. If it was like that when you were a team member then why would you change it and bring that hassle on yourself?