Cutting out sidelights when dipped beam is on?

Andy From Sligo

would there be a legal issue if the 5w front sidelights were not lit when the 50w dipped beam was on - and only sidelights to come on only when dipped beam and high beam were off? - it seems overkill to have the 5w bulbs burning when there is enough light from the dipped lights - plus the car headlights on this particular car looks weird with the headlight dipped on and the sidelights on - cant explain it any better than that.

Failing that , would it be illegal to move the sidelights out of the main headlight and put them in place of the front fog lights?

Sorry if you find it a bit of an odd question and why would anyone want to do that but its just mildly niggling me the set up thats on there as standard

colm_mcm

You're overthinking it. Plus the sidelight is handy for other motorists if the headlight bulb blows.

Andy From Sligo

colm_mcm wrote: »

You're overthinking it. Plus the sidelight is handy for other motorists if the headlight bulb blows.

ah yes, wasnt thinking about that

CiniO

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

would there be a legal issue if the 5w front sidelights were not lit when the 50w dipped beam was on - and only sidelights to come on only when dipped beam and high beam were off?

IMO yes, it would be illegal.

Failing that , would it be illegal to move the sidelights out of the main headlight and put them in place of the front fog lights?

Again same, it would be illegal.

jca

colm_mcm wrote: »

You're overthinking it. Plus the sidelight is handy for other motorists if the headlight bulb blows.

Well, it's September, sidelights are all the rage from now to march.

demanufactured

You mean Parking Lights.

Isambard

it should be illegal, indeed impossible, to drive on parking lights.

Totally pointless, the driver is acknowledging it's dark enough to have lights on but still wants to save money by not putting his dips on.

..and don't get me started on DRLs

DesperateDan

Isambard wrote: »

it should be illegal, indeed impossible, to drive on parking lights.

Totally pointless, the driver is acknowledging it's dark enough to have lights on but still wants to save money by not putting his dips on.

..and don't get me started on DRLs

Well I think it's handy to have them - for example driving through a wooded road can make cars a little more visible during the day which can only be a good thing

colm_mcm

If you want to be visible, use your headlights.

Isambard

DesperateDan wrote: »

Well I think it's handy to have them - for example driving through a wooded road can make cars a little more visible during the day which can only be a good thing

DRLs you mean? well i think any benefit is outweighed by the people who drive round in the evening with no lights at the back....

..damn, I said don't get me started.

Cee-Jay-Cee

CiniO wrote: »

IMO yes, it would be illegal.


Again same, it would be illegal.

I can't see how wiring the sidelights to go off when the main lights are on could possibly be illegal. In many cars they're barely visible once main lights are on and in some older cars they're actually house in the main beam reflector housing.

They're the most pointless stupid lights ever. They're supposedly 'parking lights' but absolutely no one uses them if parked in unlit areas at night for fear of draining their battery (which makes complete sense as I wouldn't use them either)

Idiots use them thinking they're saving their battery or for some other nonsense reasons. The government should introduce a €50 on the spot fine for idiots who drive about when it's almost completely dark with parking lights on. The same on the spot fine should be issued to idiots driving around with their rear fog light on when there isn't even a hint of fog. The government would clear the national debt in no time given the number of idiot drivers we have in this country.

Isambard

I've even heard of people who think the first click on their switch is dipped beam and the second full beam.

cruizer101

I don't really get sidelights tbh, they offer very little light at all, the only use I can see is when dip bulb blows at least it offers some visibility for other drivers of your car.
Personally drive with dips the whole time, literally turn the knob for them as I turn the key.

bazz26

They are parking lights and designed for just that - make the parked car visible to other road users.

tossy

cruizer101 wrote: »

I don't really get sidelights tbh, they offer very little light at all, the only use I can see is when dip bulb blows at least it offers some visibility for other drivers of your car.
Personally drive with dips the whole time, literally turn the knob for them as I turn the key.

That's because they are parking lights.... the clue is in their name. They are not designed for you to see, they are designed for others to see your car.

CiniO

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I can't see how wiring the sidelights to go off when the main lights are on could possibly be illegal.

20. (1) (a) Where a vehicle to which this Part of these Regulations applies is used in a public place during lighting up hours, any of the following lamps and lighting with which the vehicle is required to be equipped in pursuance of article 9 of these Regulations shall, at all times while the vehicle is so used, be shown duly lit, that is to say:—the side lamps, rear lamps, rear projecting load lamp, lateral projecting load lamp, marker lamp and identification mark lighting.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1963/si/189/made/en/print

Above proves that side lights (known as well as parking lights) need to be used during lighting up hours.
To be precise:

"lighting-up hours" means the period commencing one half-hour after sunset on any day and expiring one half-hour before sunrise on the next day;

Obligation to use dipped or full beam headlights is separate, and doesn't release a necessity to use side lights.

So in theory, probably using dipped lights only (without sidelights) during the day in good visibility would be fine (unless it's against construction of vehicle regulations which possibly it is).
But at night, sidelights definitely need to be on, no matter if dipped lights are on or not.

On top of sidelights obviously headlights (dipped or fullbeam) need to be used.

And here's few ridiculous bits in legislation:

(b) (i) Where a vehicle to which this Part of these Regulations applies is being driven in a public place during lighting-up hours, the head lamps with which the vehicle is required to be equipped under these Regulations shall be shown duly lit.

(ii) Sub-paragraph (i) of this paragraph shall not apply—

(I) For a reasonable period after the commencement or before the ending of lighting-up hours, provided visibility is adequate,

(II) while the vehicle is stopped in the course of traffic, or

(III) while the vehicle is being driven in conditions of good visibility on a road to which a speed limit under section 45 or section 46 of the Act applies and which is provided with a continuous system of public lighting affording illumination equivalent at least to that afforded by dipped head lamps.

So according to that, it looks like you can legally drive with only side lights (parking lights) for reasonable period after sunset and before sunrise, as well as when stopped in traffic, or in lit up areas (like cities).

I'm not aware of any further amendments to that legislation which would change that.

In many cars they're barely visible once main lights are on and in some older cars they're actually house in the main beam reflector housing.


They're the most pointless stupid lights ever. They're supposedly 'parking lights' but absolutely no one uses them if parked in unlit areas at night for fear of draining their battery (which makes complete sense as I wouldn't use them either)

Agree.
Lots of people flick them on during day when it's raining, which is absolutely pointless. You can't see them on oncoming vehicle until that vehicle is really close. By that time you'd already see that vehicle without lights.

Many countries prohibit driving with sidelights only.

But I must say I actually do use them sometimes for parking in unlit areas.

Idiots use them thinking they're saving their battery or for some other nonsense reasons. The government should introduce a €50 on the spot fine for idiots who drive about when it's almost completely dark with parking lights on. The same on the spot fine should be issued to idiots driving around with their rear fog light on when there isn't even a hint of fog. The government would clear the national debt in no time given the number of idiot drivers we have in this country.

Agree.

CiniO

DesperateDan wrote: »

Well I think it's handy to have them - for example driving through a wooded road can make cars a little more visible during the day which can only be a good thing

There's not a hope sidelights would make vehicle more visible during the day - no matter if it's wooded area, or heavy rain, etc...

I did a test/game several times with my passengers.
Day time - oncoming car - long straight road.
The moment you first see the car, you must tell if car has it's side lights (parking lights on). Result - No one can tell. Just guessing.

Fact is, you can't tell. You see the car for a while, and you still can't tell. You can only tell when car is really close.
That makes using them completely pointless.

Different story with DRLs or dipped lights.
In that case, you can see cars from very far, You woulnd't be able to see that car if ithad no lights at all or only side lights (parking lights).

Andy From Sligo

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

.... The same on the spot fine should be issued to idiots driving around with their rear fog light on when there isn't even a hint of fog.....

What about people who drive around with their front fog lights on in the front bumper as driving lights?

Surely there are differences with the design of fog lights to driving lights? I remember years ago on fog lights you had a round peice of reflective metal, aluminium maybe, in front of the bulb so that the light bounced off that back onto the reflector of the fog light, and possibly a different wattage bulb, all to cut through the fog/mist . And then you had driving lights where you had no reflector metal in front of the bulb and possibly a different wattage bulb or design of lens and it was there purely for more illumination at night, or have they incorporated the fog light and driving light as the same thing these days?

Alun

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

What about people who drive around with their front fog lights on in the front bumper as driving lights?

Some do this, for sure, but bear in mind that some cars have combination DRL / foglight clusters in the front bumper, so while it may look as if they have their fogs on, it's actually a separate lower wattage bulb in a separate part of the housing that's illuminated.

CiniO

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

What about people who drive around with their front fog lights on in the front bumper as driving lights?

Surely there are differences with the design of fog lights to driving lights? I remember years ago on fog lights you had a round peice of reflective metal, aluminium maybe, in front of the bulb so that the light bounced off that back onto the reflector of the fog light, and possibly a different wattage bulb, all to cut through the fog/mist . And then you had driving lights where you had no reflector metal in front of the bulb and possibly a different wattage bulb or design of lens and it was there purely for more illumination at night, or have they incorporated the fog light and driving light as the same thing these days?

Sorry, what are driving lights?

jca

CiniO wrote: »

There's not a hope sidelights would make vehicle more visible during the day - no matter if it's wooded area, or heavy rain, etc...

I did a test/game several times with my passengers.
Day time - oncoming car - long straight road.
The moment you first see the car, you must tell if car has it's side lights (parking lights on). Result - No one can tell. Just guessing.

Fact is, you can't tell. You see the car for a while, and you still can't tell. You can only tell when car is really close.
That makes using them completely pointless.

Different story with DRLs or dipped lights.
In that case, you can see cars from very far, You woulnd't be able to see that car if ithad no lights at all or only side lights (parking lights).

If the sidelights are in the headlight reflector they can be seen much more easily than tiny sidelights on their own. Mine are on their own so I only use them while parked.

Andy From Sligo

Alun wrote: »

Some do this, for sure, but bear in mind that some cars have combination DRL / foglight clusters in the front bumper, so while it may look as if they have their fogs on, it's actually a separate lower wattage bulb in a separate part of the housing that's illuminated.

Yes i see what you are saying but i was referring to people who use their fog lights as driving lights on older non fancy expensive make cars which have no drl's fitted

Skylinehead

The only place where parking lights are "good enough" is in underground car parks. Anywhere else and they're just too weak

Lord Nikon

DRLs are a nightmare at night-time, as the driver thinks they have their lights on, but they have no lights on the back of the car. Dipped headlights should be on at all times, day and night.

Andy From Sligo

Lord Nikon wrote: »

DRLs are a nightmare at night-time, as the driver thinks they have their lights on, but they have no lights on the back of the car. Dipped headlights should be on at all times, day and night.

When designing drl's they should have put even a 5w wedge bulb in the rear light cluster in the red area of the lens

Andy From Sligo

Remember in the old days with cars that had parking light setting on the stalk, the only lights to come on were the front drivers side sidelight, and the rear drivers side light when the ignition switch was off. Id be worried about flat battery with them left on overnight. In any case the rear cluster lights normally all have some kind of freshnel reflector in them so cars coming from behind with their headlights on can still see that its a car in front

colm_mcm

VW still do the parking light off the indicator.

jca

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Remember in the old days with cars that had parking light setting on the stalk, the only lights to come on were the front drivers side sidelight, and the rear drivers side light when the ignition switch was off. Id be worried about flat battery with them left on overnight. In any case the rear cluster lights normally all have some kind of freshnel reflector in them so cars coming from behind with their headlights on can still see that its a car in front

I've never seen that on any car I've driven, the stalk switch always turned on all 4 lights. The VW system of using the indicator stalk to light left or right as needed is very handy.

Isambard

quite common for one side or the other of parking lights to come on depending on the position of the indicator stalk.

Is this thread all about someone wanting to save by not have too many bulbs illuminated?

CiniO

Lord Nikon wrote: »

DRLs are a nightmare at night-time, as the driver thinks they have their lights on, but they have no lights on the back of the car. Dipped headlights should be on at all times, day and night.

No point for dipped headlights at all times...
DRLs are much better for daytime in good weather than dipped headlights.

It's not DRLs which are nightmare, but drivers who don't know how to use their own car lights.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

When designing drl's they should have put even a 5w wedge bulb in the rear light cluster in the red area of the lens

There's completely no need for rear tail lights at daytime in good weather.
It would be overkill to fit them, to cater for unknowledgable drivers who don't bother turning dipped headlights at night or during bad weather at daytime.

Andy From Sligo

issue(s) on our particular car is that the capless 5w wedge bulbs go blackened very quickly and are pointless to have lit when dipped main is on - I might end up putting some LED's in its place from Halfords at some stage if its legal to do so

demanufactured

Parking lights people.... Parking lights.

CiniO

demanufactured wrote: »

Parking lights people.... Parking lights.

Those lights you are referring to are correctly called "side lights" or "position lights". Not parking lights.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Car manufacturers are all bound by regulations governing emissions, anti-collision/crash systems etc etc yet there appears to be none governing lighting other than the vehicle must be fitted with front rear lights/reflectors. Its about time that the EU/world introduced full time lights that are on always once the ignition is switched on with no option to switch them off.

Many manufacturers have the lights wired so that you can't accidentally leave them on, ie, they go off when the ignition is switched off. (Saab, Subaru, Kia to name but a few) I wish all manufacturers were forced to do the same. I drive with my low beams on all the time, I don't care if its the brightest clearest day of the year or the middle of the night in winter, I always have my lights on. It does absolutely no harm and it increases my visibility to other road users even in the middle of the day in summer time.

I have been driving for almost 30 years and I have never ever in that time driven with only the 'parking lights' on as its completely pointless. If I felt the need to have lights then I want proper lights, not pathetic little weak parking lights.

CiniO

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Car manufacturers are all bound by regulations governing emissions, anti-collision/crash systems etc etc yet there appears to be none governing lighting other than the vehicle must be fitted with front rear lights/reflectors. Its about time that the EU/world introduced full time lights that are on always once the ignition is switched on with no option to switch them off.

But they did.
They are called DRL's and are obligatory on all vehicles first type approved from 2011 or 2012 (can't remember exactly).

jca

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Car manufacturers are all bound by regulations governing emissions, anti-collision/crash systems etc etc yet there appears to be none governing lighting other than the vehicle must be fitted with front rear lights/reflectors. Its about time that the EU/world introduced full time lights that are on always once the ignition is switched on with no option to switch them off.

Many manufacturers have the lights wired so that you can't accidentally leave them on, ie, they go off when the ignition is switched off. (Saab, Subaru, Kia to name but a few) I wish all manufacturers were forced to do the same. I drive with my low beams on all the time, I don't care if its the brightest clearest day of the year or the middle of the night in winter, I always have my lights on. It does absolutely no harm and it increases my visibility to other road users even in the middle of the day in summer time.

I have been driving for almost 30 years and I have never ever in that time driven with only the 'parking lights' on as its completely pointless. If I felt the need to have lights then I want proper lights, not pathetic little weak parking lights.

My car is wired so the lights go off with the ignition. I don't turn them on though as it wastes the battery... Don't ya know..

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

Sorry, what are driving lights?

Low level lights that only come on with high beam. Opposite of fogs which come on with dipped beam.

jca

Del2005 wrote: »

Low level lights that only come on with high beam. Opposite of fogs which come on with dipped beam.

Never heard of them.

Cee-Jay-Cee

CiniO wrote: »

But they did.
They are called DRL's and are obligatory on all vehicles first type approved from 2011 or 2012 (can't remember exactly).

There you go...Didnt realise that. Thanks

Andy From Sligo

jca wrote: »

My car is wired so the lights go off with the ignition. I don't turn them on though as it wastes the battery... Don't ya know..

My car turns off the dipped beams, leaves on the sidelights (or parking lights.. or twinkle lights or whatever they are called) when i turn ignition off ... and if I walk out of car a little jingle comes out of dash as if to say "ere mate, you've left yer lights on!"

Andy From Sligo

jca wrote: »

Never heard of them.

here you are - heres a tasty looking mini cooper with driving lights (some people call them rally lights)

honda boi

I drive with the parking /side lights on all the time.
Except I use LED parking lights and give a much better light.

Isambard

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

here you are - heres a tasty looking mini cooper with driving lights (some people call them rally lights)

surely driving lights supplement the dip beams and are similarly focused and spot lights such as that mini has come on and off with main beam. Neither of these are fog lights which are diffused beams only used when it is foggy.

exaisle

Isambard wrote: »

Totally pointless, the driver is acknowledging it's dark enough to have lights on but still wants to save money by not putting his dips on.

Exactly how much do people think they save by not putting heads/dips on??

Cee-Jay-Cee

exaisle wrote: »

Exactly how much do people think they save by not putting heads/dips on??

Probably about 4.5 volts...

Just as a real world example. My last car was a 2005 Legacy which has the lights wired to the ignition. I bought the car in April, 2012. I sold it to my brother in January this year. The battery in the car was fitted in June 2010 (it was written on the battery) It is still in the car and has never failed or died. I do approximately 16k kms a year so the battery/bulbs etc have had a lot of use. Having your lights on does not effect the battery, does not effect MPG and does not cause bulbs to fail any more often than if they were only used during darkness.

Mc Love

Lord Nikon wrote: »

DRLs are a nightmare at night-time, as the driver thinks they have their lights on, but they have no lights on the back of the car. Dipped headlights should be on at all times, day and night.

Have auto lights so my dipped beams come on when it gets dark. Every car should have an auto lights switch. I can't figure out the people that get into a car and actively turn on their fogs though.

jca

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

here you are - heres a tasty looking mini cooper with driving lights (some people call them rally lights)

I thought we were talking about standard road going cars.

CiniO

Mc Love wrote: »

Have auto lights so my dipped beams come on when it gets dark. Every car should have an auto lights switch. I can't figure out the people that get into a car and actively turn on their fogs though.

Auto lights are great, but should be improved to turn on not only when dark, but also during rain or fog.
And while turning on during rain is simple enough to implement by taking reading from rain sensor (yet very few cars have it set up like that), but I'm not sure how could they implement turning lights automatically during fog.

jca

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Probably about 4.5 volts...

Just as a real world example. My last car was a 2005 Legacy which has the lights wired to the ignition. I bought the car in April, 2012. I sold it to my brother in January this year. The battery in the car was fitted in June 2010 (it was written on the battery) It is still in the car and has never failed or died. I do approximately 16k kms a year so the battery/bulbs etc have had a lot of use. Having your lights on does not effect the battery, does not effect MPG and does not cause bulbs to fail any more often than if they were only used during darkness.

I think everyone here knows that.
P.s. what does "about 4.5 volts" mean?

Andy From Sligo

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Probably about 4.5 volts...

Just as a real world example. My last car was a 2005 Legacy which has the lights wired to the ignition. I bought the car in April, 2012. I sold it to my brother in January this year. The battery in the car was fitted in June 2010 (it was written on the battery) It is still in the car and has never failed or died. I do approximately 16k kms a year so the battery/bulbs etc have had a lot of use. Having your lights on does not effect the battery, does not effect MPG and does not cause bulbs to fail any more often than if they were only used during darkness.

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

does not effect MPG

I reckon it does, not much but it still does. Have you ever ran your engine on Idle and then turned your lights on for a split second and heard the engine dip very briefly and then get up to how it was, engine has to work a fraction harder whenever you put heavy electrics like lights, fan blower, rad fan, wipers , heated rear screen etc.. it all mounts up. I even read once that driving with your windows open on your car uses more petrol. -

LED bulbs are the way to go, - use a fraction of power or normal bulbs, run cooler, not affected by vibration.

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

does not cause bulbs to fail any more often

I dunno, Halogen bulbs (for the dipped, main beam, fog lamps) are supposed to outlast normal incandescent bulbs by 3 times (if you dont touch them with bare hands) and dont normal blacken (filament tends to burn out before it gets to that stage) so then you normally have incandescent in the sidelights which are around 5watts and because they are little and not much gas in it tend to blacken/silver very quickly, and then you normally have incandescent for the rear light brake/sidelight bulb and flasher bulbs, reverse light, numberplate bulbs and these blacken over time - so if all these were on permanently every time you turned the key, these lights might not last than long , not by filament blowing as such but by getting darkened inside the bulb and not making them as bright as they were intended to be. - Again, LED the way to go on all lights on the car, then no blackening with them, run cool, fraction of power not affected by vibration (normally) - only trouble is that the mass marketing of LED bulbs these days means cheaper electronics being used to drive the LED - so theoretically if you buy a cheap LED bulb the LED itself could last for years and years but the mass produced cheap electronics using to drive (adjust voltage and light the LED) or shoddy soldering tracks or shoddy resistors etc inside the LED bulb - could fail the bulb in no time at all.

Incidentally apparently the reason a halogen bulb does not blacken like an Incandescent bulb and last longer than a normal incandescent bulb is that when a filament in a halogen bulb burns the carbon off the filament attaches itself back onto its filament - when a normal incandescent bulb burns, bits of carbon off the filament fall of the filament and 'stick' to the inside of an incandescent bulb over time, blackening it.

Also if you run a Halogen headlight bulb at around its designed voltage of 12v (if its designed for 12v) then it will work as a halogen .. however if you for some reason you lower the voltage say to around 9v or lower this could make a halogen bulb work in an normal incandescent way because it hasn't the right power to ignite the chemicals in halogen bulb to make it work as a halogen bulb, so by lowering voltage you will shorted the life of the halogen bulb, the filament with fall onto inside of the glass in incandescent mode and you will get a warm white rendering as opposed to a crisp white light the halogen light give.

This may be the case if anyone has halogen lights at home hooked up to a dimmer switch and cant understand why their halogen lights dont last very long as they should do

Del2005

Mc Love wrote: »

Have auto lights so my dipped beams come on when it gets dark. Every car should have an auto lights switch. I can't figure out the people that get into a car and actively turn on their fogs though.

They shouldn't have a switch for auto lights. It should be auto by default, then a switch to dipped. My Dad has auto lights but turns them off!