New tyres and traction control light

aristotle25

I put new nexen tyres on the rear of my bmw e60, replacing some Mechlin ones. I was stuck so had to go with what I could get at short notice.

I now find sometimes on faster bends at 100km that the abs/traction control light flickers which never happened before on these corners I drive every day.

Could the new tyres be slipping on the rims or maybe these tyres are a bit spongy so they are actually slight loosing traction ? Or is it just the difference between mid range and premium tyres ? Some say tyres need 500 miles to scrub in ?

All 4 wheels have been balanced and correct air pressure in them.

colm_mcm

They're slipping on the road, that's why the traction control is kicking in.

Your Michelins were better tyres, that's why the Nexens are cheaper.

Alanstrainor

Yep, it's just the traction control working as intended as the tyres slip on the road. I am surprised to hear that it does it at 100km/h bends though... generally I'd expect to see it more taking off or in the wet. Take it handy while getting used to them I'd say.

The Rape of Lucretia

If its a fast bend and you are only doing just that at 100kph and the traction control is coming on there is something amiss. No tyre should do that. Possibly something damaged during the tyre fitting. Sensor or cable maybe. Should get it checked out.

Neilw

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

If its a fast bend and you are only doing just that at 100kph and the traction control is coming on there is something amiss. No tyre should do that. Possibly something damaged during the tyre fitting. Sensor or cable maybe. Should get it checked out.

They are just cr@p tyres, you get what you pay for.

colm_mcm

Neilw wrote: »

They are just cr@p tyres, you get what you pay for.

Oh gosh, you shouldn't have said that. It begins now!

bazz26

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

If its a fast bend and you are only doing just that at 100kph and the traction control is coming on there is something amiss. No tyre should do that. Possibly something damaged during the tyre fitting. Sensor or cable maybe. Should get it checked out.

Sorry but that is simply not true. If you have a poor tyres struggling for grip then that's what will happen. Yes there could have been an ABS sensor or cable damaged but more than likely it's the quality of tyres at play and the first thing I'd suspect.

OP, I'd see if you can put a better brand of tyre on the rears and see if you get the same result.

CiniO

If tyres were skidding on bends at 100km/h OP would know.

Nexen is quite descent tyres brand.


What I suspect is most likely difference in tyre tread height between front and rear tyres.
This could easily cause esp/stability control light to be coming on on bends.

magentis

Nexen is a budget not midrange tyre,people sometimes confuse them with Nokian which would be a decent brand.Its quite possible that one of your tyres has some kind of an anomaly that is causing this or it is simply losing traction.The joys of cheap chinese tyres in wet weather.

Pkiernan

Move the rears to the front and see if the problem persists.
Sounds like crap tyres to me.

aristotle25

Pkiernan wrote: »

Move the rears to the front and see if the problem persists.
Sounds like crap tyres to me.

Unfortunately can't do that as the backs are wider.

aristotle25

magentis wrote: »

Nexen is a budget not midrange tyre,people sometimes confuse them with Nokian which would be a decent brand.Its quite possible that one of your tyres has some kind of an anomaly that is causing this or it is simply losing traction.The joys of cheap chinese tyres in wet weather.

Nexen are South Korean i believe and two different tyre shops did tell me they are a good mid range tire. Could be a dodgy tyre yeah or just not good enough for a heavy car like the e60

aristotle25

CiniO wrote: »

If tyres were skidding on bends at 100km/h OP would know.

Nexen is quite descent tyres brand.


What I suspect is most likely difference in tyre tread height between front and rear tyres.
This could easily cause esp/stability control light to be coming on on bends.

My car is rear wheeled drive, how does tyre thread difference cause this on bends though? I thought the abs sensors are only on the back?

And no I don't feel the car skidding and slipping out but it happens just on two bends where the weight transfers to say the back left so maybe the back right is loosing traction. I really don't know but am gettign a quote for replacement Michelin even though it will be 360 wasted on two nexens!

EPAndlee

I've the exact same problem. Bought new wheels they had two new winda fitted to the rear wheels and I fitted two perelli p zeros to the front. The back tyres are absolutely desperate. always throwing on the traction control light. Definitely getting them taking off in a few weeks

650Ginge

aristotle25 wrote: »

My car is rear wheeled drive, how does tyre thread difference cause this on bends though? I thought the abs sensors are only on the back?

And no I don't feel the car skidding and slipping out but it happens just on two bends where the weight transfers to say the back left so maybe the back right is loosing traction. I really don't know but am gettign a quote for replacement Michelin even though it will be 360 wasted on two nexens!

€360 for two nexens, €180 each is that what they cost? I put crossclimates on my f11 at €185 each. Not rfts but i have a plug kit, it's been called into action already 😕

aristotle25

650Ginge wrote: »

€360 for two nexens, €180 each is that what they cost? I put crossclimates on my f11 at €185 each. Not rfts but i have a plug kit, it's been called into action already 😕

Yeah. 275 30 19s so kinda bigger than average size so usually bit more expensive.

kirving

aristotle25 wrote: »

My car is rear wheeled drive, how does tyre thread difference cause this on bends though? I thought the abs sensors are only on the back?

And no I don't feel the car skidding and slipping out but it happens just on two bends where the weight transfers to say the back left so maybe the back right is loosing traction. I really don't know but am gettign a quote for replacement Michelin even though it will be 360 wasted on two nexens!

The following may be what is happening.

There will be ABS(wheel speed) and suspension height senors on each wheel. There are also accelerators and gyroscopes, steering angle, brake and throttle position sensors (and lots more) in the car.

These will all feed into the stability control system that will determine what your car is doing, compared to what you want it to do.

So when you turn into a bend, the car will see that you want to turn the car based on the steering angle input. The car will then expect the following to happen, among other things.

Driver Input
1: Wheel is turned left at 100kph.

Computer expects the following to happen:

• Accelerometer senses G-Force to the right side
• Right suspension compresses, left suspension extends.
• Right hand wheels increase in speed relative to the left wheels(they have a greater distance on the outside of the curve)

The final one here is what may be confusing the system.

The newer tyres may be rotating at a slower rate than your old front tyres which could be smaller(worn down) and may need to rotate faster for a given speed.

So when you go into a turn, the car expects the right side wheels to rotate faster than the left, but in your case, the back right might actually be rotating slower than the left front - causing your car to think that a wheel is slipping.

It can do various things in reaction to what it thinks is a skid, including cutting throttle electronically or applying a braking force to one or more wheels. In any case, traction/stability control cutting in unnecessarily is dangerous and should be corrected ASAP.

tossy

Kevin Irving wrote: »

The following may be what is happening.

There will be ABS(wheel speed) and suspension height senors on each wheel. There are also accelerators and gyroscopes, steering angle, brake and throttle position sensors (and lots more) in the car.

These will all feed into the stability control system that will determine what your car is doing, compared to what you want it to do.

So when you turn into a bend, the car will see that you want to turn the car based on the steering angle input. The car will then expect the following to happen, among other things.

Driver Input
1: Wheel is turned left at 100kph.

Computer expects the following to happen:

• Accelerometer senses G-Force to the right side
• Right suspension compresses, left suspension extends.
• Right hand wheels increase in speed relative to the left wheels(they have a greater distance on the outside of the curve)

The final one here is what may be confusing the system.

The newer tyres may be rotating at a slower rate than your old front tyres which could be smaller(worn down) and may need to rotate faster for a given speed.

So when you go into a turn, the car expects the right side wheels to rotate faster than the left, but in your case, the back right might actually be rotating slower than the left front - causing your car to think that a wheel is slipping.

It can do various things in reaction to what it thinks is a skid, including cutting throttle electronically or applying a braking force to one or more wheels. In any case, traction/stability control cutting in unnecessarily is dangerous and should be corrected ASAP.

or........ the tyres are ****

Toyotafanboi

tossy wrote: »

or........ the tyres are ****

Yeah.

They car is already designed to factor all that crap in. Otherwise every car would have ABS/ TCS faults at every corner.

The Rape of Lucretia

Neilw wrote: »

They are just cr@p tyres, you get what you pay for.

It is not a question of tyre quality - an e50 triggering traction control when only doing 100kph on a fast bend designed to easily take that speed in that car is clearly some other problem. No new tyre of whatever quality will do that. If you were doing 200kph, then maybe.
Possibly a faulty tyre though, so have them checked. But more likely a electronic issue provoked as well explained above, or from an out and out fault. Either way, better safe than sorry so worth having them checked. Just changing tyre brand is not the first port of call and most unlikely to be the root cause.

The Rape of Lucretia

tossy wrote: »

or........ the tyres are ****

Exactly. This case is a good example of where the tyre quality myth misleads people into avoiding getting to the real source of a stability problem.

kirving

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Yeah.

They car is already designed to factor all that crap in. Otherwise every car would have ABS/ TCS faults at every corner.

Agreed, but it is possible that the tyres are of different sizes still?
I think you'd know very quickly, as would the OP, if the car is actually sliding.

The systems are simulated and tested to the Nth degree, but can still be confused by a mix of circumstances.

Perhaps a damaged wheel speed sensor cable that occurred when changing the tyres, and only breaks a connection when the wire bends as the suspension compresses?

kerten

Without knowing the how sharp the particular bend is or limits OP pushes regularly at bends, it is hard to say if it is sensors acting up or tyres limit is reached IMHO.

I still bet on tyres combination of rip/pressure/behaviour/limit is the problem here if previous michelins are ultra high performance models considering the tyre size.

OP, if it is first miles after putting the tyre on, it may improve a little bit after 80-100 kms when protective layer is worn fully

Toyotafanboi

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Agreed, but it is possible that the tyres are of different sizes still?
I think you'd know very quickly, as would the OP, if the car is actually sliding.

The systems are simulated and tested to the Nth degree, but can still be confused by a mix of circumstances.

Perhaps a damaged wheel speed sensor cable that occurred when changing the tyres, and only breaks a connection when the wire bends as the suspension compresses?

You'd have to be some animal to damage an ABS sensor when changing tyres but I suppose he did also sell Nexens as a good mid range tyre, so anything is possible.

Once the tyre on the same axle are matched, tyre height shouldn't be a problem.

All we know is this RWD car had worn Michelins on the rear and it never gave TCS trouble into that corner, now it had Nexens on the rear and it does.

aristotle25

Even though the new tyres are the same size profile of the ones I took off they look a tad less higher than the old ones. Could that cause the issue?

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You'd have to be some animal to damage an ABS sensor when changing tyres but I suppose he did also sell Nexens as a good mid range tyre, so anything is possible.

Once the tyre on the same axle are matched, tyre height shouldn't be a problem.

All we know is this RWD car had worn Michelins on the rear and it never gave TCS trouble into that corner, now it had Nexens on the rear and it does.

The biggest tyre review site I know http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/ places Nexens in their Mid-range category among BFGoodrich, Hankook, Nokian, Uniroyal, Vredstein, etc....

Toyotafanboi

CiniO wrote: »

The biggest tyre review site I know http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/ places Nexens in their Mid-range category among BFGoodrich, Hankook, Nokian, Uniroyal, Vredstein, etc....

Well if the internet says they are good then it must be true.

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Well if the internet says they are good then it must be true.

Did you try them and can confirm they are no good?

aristotle25

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Well if the internet says they are good then it must be true.

In fairness that's a good review site and as I said two seperate tyre shops both said they are good mid range tyre to me. They sell many brands so not sure why they would lie?

CiniO

aristotle25 wrote: »

In fairness that's a good review site and as I said two seperate tyre shops both said they are good mid range tyre to me. They sell many brands so not sure why they would lie?

And that's the reason I believe your trouble with stability/traction light must have different grounds.

I don't believe tyres could be loosing grip on bend at 100km/h especially if it's dry.

I'd double check tyre pressure, I'd double check if they are surely the same size, and the same weight and load index, and the same model.

Also how much tread is there left on front tyres?

Toyotafanboi

CiniO wrote: »

Did you try them and can confirm they are no good?

Not on my personal car, no.

aristotle25 wrote: »

so not sure why they would lie?

They will tell you what you want/ need to hear to sell the tyre.

Let's face it, you'll never hear a tyre retailer say, "Yeah, these tyres are a bit crap, but the masses want cheap rubber so that's why I stock them. I'll put you down for 2x, that'll be €360 please".

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Not on my personal car, no.



They will tell you what you want/ need to hear to sell the tyre.

Let's face it, you'll never hear a tyre retailer say, "Yeah, these tyres are a bit crap, but the masses want cheap rubber so that's why I stock them. I'll put you down for 2x, that'll be €360 please".

I agree I wouldn't trust tyre retailers, but looking at online reviews from various sites, test results, etc looks like Nexen tyres are very descent.
I'll be buying a set of tyres next months, and I'm strongly considering Nexen.

Neilw

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It is not a question of tyre quality - an e50 triggering traction control when only doing 100kph on a fast bend designed to easily take that speed in that car is clearly some other problem. No new tyre of whatever quality will do that. If you were doing 200kph, then maybe.
Possibly a faulty tyre though, so have them checked. But more likely a electronic issue provoked as well explained above, or from an out and out fault. Either way, better safe than sorry so worth having them checked. Just changing tyre brand is not the first port of call and most unlikely to be the root cause.

You again :rolleyes:

As I've said numerous times here, some people just can't be educated to the benefits of premium tyres and also downsides as the op is seeing with cheap ones.

It is highly unlikely there is anything wrong with the op's car.

aristotle25

Just took the car out for some more testing.

1) the back feels wavey at 130-140km on motorway which it never did before.

2) the tyres are actually loosing grip on the 80km-100km sharpish turns (I would have to take them a bit faster than average but generally at a speed I know for those corners). I simply measure where the back left and back right tyre were in relation to each other before and after the abs light happens on 5 occasions and the back left had rotated about 6 inches further than the left.

It's not safe when the abs/traction control starts cutting engine power unexpectedly when it really shouldn't. The whole thing feels unsure and hard to feel safe to be honsest. I don't drive like a lunatic but this doesn't feel right at all. Car has 285bhp so this probably isn't too much of an issue on average family cars.

So the sensors are fine and the tyres, so far, are rubbish on a heavy e60 versus whah i and before. I will change them in the next week and report back for those interested.

CJhaughey

aristotle25 wrote: »

I simply measure where the back left and back right tyre were in relation to each other before and after the abs light happens on 5 occasions and the back left had rotated about 6 inches further than the left.

Correct me if I am wrong but I can't see how this would measure anything? There is a differential that allows the wheels to turn at different rates through a corner, the inside wheel will turn many times less than the outside wheel.

CiniO

aristotle25 wrote: »

2) the tyres are actually loosing grip on the 80km-100km sharpish turns (I would have to take them a bit faster than average but generally at a speed I know for those corners). I simply measure where the back left and back right tyre were in relation to each other before and after the abs light happens on 5 occasions and the back left had rotated about 6 inches further than the left.

How did you measure it?

aristotle25

CJhaughey wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but I can't see how this would measure anything? There is a differential that allows the wheels to turn at different rates through a corner, the inside wheel will turn many times less than the outside wheel.

Is there? I don't know to be honest. I thought it must be the tyre slipping if one has rotated more than the other? I only got the abs/traction control light on right hand turns.

All I can say is I didn't have this issue on previous tyres.

CJhaughey

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm

Blazer

aristotle25 wrote: »

it will be 360 wasted on two nexens!

christ..I got 2x275/40/18 Goodyear Runflats for €470. You got screwed on those mate.
For your car get the Michelin Pilot sport 4 if you're running non-rft's...their grip is unbelievable.
I use online for all my tyres and get my local shop to fit.

https://www.oponeo.ie/tyre-finder/s=1/summer/t=1/car/r=1/275-30-r19

The Rape of Lucretia

aristotle25 wrote: »

I only got the abs/traction control light on right hand turns. All I can say is I didn't have this issue on previous tyres.

No doubt, but an asymmetric but consistent occurence like that definitely suggests something serious is out of kilter - one of the tyres or the cable or something was indeed disturbed in the changing. While tyre grip does vary from one model to another, you would not notice it at 100kph or in this consistent, easily provoked, yet one side fashion, unless there is some clear fault with a tyre, its fitting, or the traction control gear. Definitely worth getting the situation professionally checked rather doing your own experiments.

Tommyboy40

aristotle25 wrote: »

My car is rear wheeled drive, how does tyre thread difference cause this on bends though? I thought the abs sensors are only on the back?

And no I don't feel the car skidding and slipping out but it happens just on two bends where the weight transfers to say the back left so maybe the back right is loosing traction. I really don't know but am gettign a quote for replacement Michelin even though it will be 360 wasted on two nexens!

€360 for Nexens? I paid €460 for a pair of 265/40/18 Conti sports and €195 for a 245/40/18 Michelin. Next and other cheap brands are ok for short slow city runs, unless you have to brake hard on a wet road. The difference in stopping distance between an A rated tyre and cheap tyres is 18M

creedp

Tommyboy40 wrote: »

€360 for Nexens? I paid €460 for a pair of 265/40/18 Conti sports and €195 for a 245/40/18 Michelin. Next and other cheap brands are ok for short slow city runs, unless you have to brake hard on a wet road. The difference in stopping distance between an A rated tyre and cheap tyres is 18M

Yet Nexen's are OEM on new Sorentos and Sante Fe's. Would it be recommended that people buying these car new and regularly exceeding a mighty 100kmph insist dealer put proper tyres on their cars?

kerten

creedp wrote: »

Yet Nexen's are OEM on new Sorentos and Sante Fe's. Would it be recommended that people buying these car new and regularly exceeding a mighty 100kmph insist dealer put proper tyres on their cars?

Funny I just noticed this today in my estate on a 172 Sorento and if I was buying a brand new car, it would irritate me.

I get the point that Kia/Hyundai would ensure good quality tyres fitted in factory but considering the bulk prices they pay for tyres, it screams to me that cost cutting was priority on this model.

Why would I be ok with lower quality component in a brand new item I am buying ?

Should I believe that Kia/Hyundai discovered that there is no difference between comparable models of Nexen and premium tyres while other car brands couldn't yet ?

CiniO

kerten wrote: »

Funny I just noticed this today in my estate on a 172 Sorento and if I was buying a brand new car, it would irritate me.

I get the point that Kia/Hyundai would ensure good quality tyres fitted in factory but considering the bulk prices they pay for tyres, it screams to me that cost cutting was priority on this model.

Why would I be ok with lower quality component in a brand new item I am buying ?

Should I believe that Kia/Hyundai discovered that there is no difference between comparable models of Nexen and premium tyres while other car brands couldn't yet ?

Kie/Hyundai are Korean manufacturers, so they use Korean tyres.
Makes sense to be honest.

Nexen are nowhere near poor quality tyres.

aristotle25

Had the car suspension and sensor checked out and that's all fine. Also got all the wheels balanced and two buckled alloys fixed as well.

I would say that the stability issue at 120-140 kph is fixed but these tyres do not grip as well going around corners at speed compared to the Michelins. Going fast-ish around a big motorway roundabout for example will cause the traction control to kick in which never happened on the Michelins.

They are not as good in the wet either so overall you get what you pay for I suppose. They do grip well in a straight line when trying a fast take off for example.

SpannerMonkey

aristotle25 wrote: »

Had the car suspension and sensor checked out and that's all fine. Also got all the wheels balanced and two buckled alloys fixed as well.

I would say that the stability issue at 120-140 kph is fixed but these tyres do not grip as well going around corners at speed compared to the Michelins. Going fast-ish around a big motorway roundabout for example will cause the traction control to kick in which never happened on the Michelins.

They are not as good in the wet either so overall you get what you pay for I suppose. They do grip well in a straight line when trying a fast take off for example.

nearly any tyre will be ok in the dry for normal driving but on rear wheel drive you really cant skimp on tyres and never believe a tyre garage when they tell you its a great tyre 99.9% of them are talking crap and just want a sale .
nexen are rubbish they were on a car i bought years ago and i got rid of them as soon as i could . only worse tyre ive come across were acceleras .

what size tyres are they ?

aristotle25

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

what size tyres are they ?

275-30-19 on back and 245-35-19 on front. Mechelin in front. Nexen on back.

Neilw

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

No doubt, but an asymmetric but consistent occurence like that definitely suggests something serious is out of kilter - one of the tyres or the cable or something was indeed disturbed in the changing. While tyre grip does vary from one model to another, you would not notice it at 100kph or in this consistent, easily provoked, yet one side fashion, unless there is some clear fault with a tyre, its fitting, or the traction control gear. Definitely worth getting the situation professionally checked rather doing your own experiments.

Wrong again, read the op's latest post. Nothing wrong with the car bar poor tyres.

Tommyboy40

Judging by the tyre size you're driving something relatively powerful. In that case there's no excuse for putting budget (ish) tyres on it. Even my 21 year old W124 has 4 matching pirellis. How long have you had the car? If I accelerate on a roundabout or any corner I'll get a traction control light irrespective of which tyre but I drive a V8

fancy pigeon

aristotle25 wrote: »

Yeah. 275 30 19s so kinda bigger than average size so usually bit more expensive.

To kind of use a phrase from a TV gameshow

"Look at what you could have bought"

Mmmm £53 Triangles £93 Nexens!

You would need to factor in delivery, which only you can do

How much would fitting set you back?

GerryDerpy

Just want to warn people about the Rapist. They consistently spout nonsense about cheap vs quality tyres. Have spotted it too many times. Must work for a Chinese tyre importer.

Please stop endangering people with your ill informed advice.