Can't get Mod to respond.

54and56

Hi,

I'm a regular user of the Soccer SuperThreads which are set up for general team talk, gossip and rumours. The rules governing Soccer Superthreads are set out in a number of posts in the Soccer Charter.

This post in the Soccer Charter specifically states that:

"We view the superthreads to be limited to use for general transfer chat [daily rumours etc]/general reserve team chat/general gossip/general pre-season tour chat."

And that

"NO MATCH INCIDENT DISCUSSION WILL BE TOLERATED IN SUPERTHREADS."

Matchtalk is supposed to be restricted to the specific match threads e.g. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057780015

Unfortunately match related talk seems to dominate the Soccer Superthreads before, during and after matches and I have not seen any action taken by Mod's to implement the anti match talk rule.

I originally queried this with GavRedKing (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=192882) who is one of the most proactive Soccer Mods on Jan 16th, see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=14100525.

He reverted to say that he was aware of the problem but it was a "grey area" (whatever that means) and would take it up with his fellow Mods during the summer and revert to me.

As I hadn't heard back from GavRedKing by August 20th and with the impending start of the new Soccer season I contacted GavRedKing on August 20th seeking clarification on what had been decided over the summer and got a response the same day to say he would get an answer for me when he got back on his laptop as he was currently on his phone but I never heard back from him despite the fact I contacted him several times (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=14490759, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=14498616 and http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=192882) and despite the fact he is posting regularly including in the Arsenal Superthread early this morning.

It's become clear that GavRedKing is not going to follow through on his commitment to respond to me and is ignoring my requests for clarification on the issue.

Can someone in authority please confirm why the "no match talk" rule isn't being implemented and if a decision has been made to permit match talk in the Soccer Superthreads why hasn't that change in rules been made clear to users of the Soccer Superthread forums and the rule removed from the Soccer Charter?

I look forward to hearing from you and to getting clarification on both the "no match talk" rule and why GavRedKing is ignoring my requests for clarification despite giving me two separate commitments that he would do so.

dudara

Hi,

We have an established chain here on Boards - Mods -> CMods -> Admins -> HQ.

If you are not getting a response from a moderator, the next recommended step is to contact a CMod.

In this case, the CMods for Sports are GavRedKing, Mickeroo and Steve. I recommend to contact all three (as you have already contacted GavRedKing) for their thoughts in this matter.

Regards
dudara

Steve

To be honest, this is a local issue for the soccer mods to deal with.

I have got your pm's on this today and the response from GRK to say he is AFK right now (and you were copied) so I'll raise this in the soccer mods forum and get their collective response.

Failing that, cmods will gwt involved.

Thx.

Beasty

The issue was extensively discussed in the annual Soccer forum feedback thread, when changes to that specific rule were requested. The mods have not been enforcing that rule for some time and there have been very few, if any, reported posts on the matter certainly for a number of months

It is one of the outstanding points in the feedback thread and I would suggest you read through the comments there, from both regular users and the local mods

On a separate matter, I note you tried to provide links to PMs in your OP. Please note that firstly only you can see those PMs, and also that it is not permitted to quote any PMs received anywhere on the site unless it is in connection with a dispute within the DRP or you have received the permission of the sender to publish it

54and56

Beasty wrote: »

The issue was extensively discussed in the annual Soccer forum feedback thread, when changes to that specific rule were requested. The mods have not been enforcing that rule for some time and there have been very few, if any, reported posts on the matter certainly for a number of months

It is one of the outstanding points in the feedback thread and I would suggest you read through the comments there, from both regular users and the local mods

I read the thread from beginning to end and the closest it comes to conclusion on the issue is where on Aug 13th dfx confirmed that:-

”Yes, we can try out discussion in superthreads as part of the charter and see how it goes. Matchthreads though are still a very important part of the forum and can co-exist as they have been recently."

Three things I've asked Mickeroo (who responded to my PM) on which he has promised to get back to me on are:-

1. Can you confirm that, for now during the "try out" period, there is no prohibition on match talk in the Superthreads?

2. Can you confirm when the try out period is scheduled to end and how we will all be informed that it has ended so we don't inadvertently end up in breach of the "no match talk" rule if the post try out decision is that it should remain in place?

3. Why is the "no match talk" rule in place during the try out period?

Beasty wrote: »

The mods have not been enforcing that rule for some time

This is the origin of my original query back in January. What is the point in going to the trouble of publishing a rule if you have no intention of enforcing it? How are us users supposed to differentiate between rules which are enforced and those which aren't? Why keep a rule which isn't enforced? What does it achieve apart from confusion and the risk that you set a precedent which makes enforcing other rules more difficult i.e. "why are you picking on me for breaching XYZ rule when you are not enforcing the no match talk rule against BoardsUser123?"

Beasty wrote: »

On a separate matter, I note you tried to provide links to PMs in your OP. Please note that firstly only you can see those PMs,

Thanks for pointing that out, I assumed Mods could view PM's.

Beasty wrote: »

it is not permitted to quote any PMs received anywhere on the site unless it is in connection with a dispute within the DRP or you have received the permission of the sender to publish it

Again thanks, I wasn't aware of the rule but am now. I think all the links I posted to PM's were actually to PM's in my sent items but it's possible one may not have been so apologies. It won't happen again.

Beasty

As you are now in discussion with Sports CMod Mickeroo, I am taking it we are done here

54and56

Beasty wrote: »

As you are now in discussion with Sports CMod Mickeroo, I am taking it we are done here

I hope so too but I'm not sure. Mikeroo responded to me 48 hours ago to say he'd figure it out with the other Soccer Mod's and get back to me but I' haven't heard from him since. It's the weekend and it's only been a couple of days so no biggie. Hopefully I'll hear from him in the next few days.

Thanks for your time on this.

Steve

Hi Je_suis_Jean,

For closure on this, and following a discussion with soccer mods, other Cmods and Admins, the issue is and has been discussed in the current soccer feedback thread here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057759438

You currently have access to that forum and that thread so I suggest you avail of it to air your views.

This is not a helpdesk issue imo unless you have some further complaints about moderation in that forum.

Thx. S

54and56

Hi Steve,

I'm not looking to air any views. I'm looking for Mod clarification on the questions I've asked. Originally GavRedKing promised to revert to me during the summer with clarification but didn't. I followed up with him on Aug 20th and he once again promised to revert with clarification once he was back at his laptop (he only had access to his phone on Aug 20th) but he has yet to revert.

Following the advice of Dudara above I contacted GavRedKing, Mickeroo and yourself (as the Mods in the Soccer forum) seeking clarification but I haven't received any to date.

Reading the thread you linked to doesn't provide any clarification on the issues I've raised which for reference are:-

1. Can you confirm that, for now during the "try out" period, there is no prohibition on match talk in the Superthreads?

2. Can you confirm when the try out period is scheduled to end and how we will all be informed that it has ended so we don't inadvertently end up in breach of the "no match talk" rule if the post try out decision is that it should remain in place?

3. Why is the "no match talk" rule in place during the try out period?

What is the point in going to the trouble of publishing a rule if you have no intention of enforcing it? How are us users supposed to differentiate between rules which are enforced and those which aren't? Why keep a rule which isn't enforced? What does it achieve apart from confusion and the risk that you set a precedent which makes enforcing other rules more difficult i.e. "why are you picking on me for breaching XYZ rule when you are not enforcing the no match talk rule against BoardsUser123?"

If this isn't the place to get clarification on the above and the forum Mods aren't in a position to provide clarification can you advise who/where I should take this to?

Regards,

Jean.

Steve

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Hi Steve,

I'm not looking to air any views. I'm looking for Mod clarification on the questions I've asked. Originally GavRedKing promised to revert to me during the summer with clarification but didn't. I followed up with him on Aug 20th and he once again promised to revert with clarification once he was back at his laptop (he only had access to his phone on Aug 20th) but he has yet to revert.

Following the advice of Dudara above I contacted GavRedKing, Mickeroo and yourself (as the Mods in the Soccer forum) seeking clarification but I haven't received any to date.

Reading the thread you linked to doesn't provide any clarification on the issues I've raised which for reference are:-

1. Can you confirm that, for now during the "try out" period, there is no prohibition on match talk in the Superthreads?

2. Can you confirm when the try out period is scheduled to end and how we will all be informed that it has ended so we don't inadvertently end up in breach of the "no match talk" rule if the post try out decision is that it should remain in place?

3. Why is the "no match talk" rule in place during the try out period?

What is the point in going to the trouble of publishing a rule if you have no intention of enforcing it? How are us users supposed to differentiate between rules which are enforced and those which aren't? Why keep a rule which isn't enforced? What does it achieve apart from confusion and the risk that you set a precedent which makes enforcing other rules more difficult i.e. "why are you picking on me for breaching XYZ rule when you are not enforcing the no match talk rule against BoardsUser123?"

If this isn't the place to get clarification on the above and the forum Mods aren't in a position to provide clarification can you advise who/where I should take this to?

Regards,

Jean.

Hi, I can confirm nothing in this thread, I'm not a Soccer forum mod and cannot answer those questions for you.

If you have an issue with a moderators actions then I'll discuss it with you, soccer forum policy is decided by the soccer mods and the feedback thread I linked above is the place to ask the questions you have.

What you need to do is engage with them in that thread, post your questions, give your opinion, and if you still feel you are being hard done by, come back and let me know and I'll look into it.

Thanks.

54and56

Steve wrote: »

Hi, I can confirm nothing in this thread, I'm not a Soccer forum mod and cannot answer those questions for you.

If you have an issue with a moderators actions then I'll discuss it with you, soccer forum policy is decided by the soccer mods and the feedback thread I linked above is the place to ask the questions you have.

What you need to do is engage with them in that thread, post your questions, give your opinion, and if you still feel you are being hard done by, come back and let me know and I'll look into it.

Thanks.

Ok I'll do that but before I do should I continue waiting for GavRedKing to respond to me via PM as he promised to do so or just accept that he was just fobbing me off both times he promised to clarify the issues I raised via PM and that that's how Mod can behave?

54and56

Steve wrote: »

Hi, I can confirm nothing in this thread, I'm not a Soccer forum mod and cannot answer those questions for you.

Well that's frustrating. The Mod Dudara said you (along with GavRedKing and Mickeroo) were a Soccer forum Mod and you are the only one who has bothered to respond to me.

Steve wrote: »

If you have an issue with a moderators actions then I'll discuss it with you.

Thanks and yes I'd very much like to discuss why GavRedKing has twice promised to respond to me via PM on the issues I raised and simply refuses to do so despite posting regularly since Aug 20th which is when he last promised to revert to me as soon as he got back to his laptop.

I have been both polite and patient and expect when someone in authority gives a commitment to respond that they both mean it and follow through on it.

Steve wrote: »

soccer forum policy is decided by the soccer mods and the feedback thread I linked above is the place to ask the questions you have.

What you need to do is engage with them in that thread, post your questions, give your opinion, and if you still feel you are being hard done by, come back and let me know and I'll look into it.

Thanks.

OK I'll do that but my issue is wider than the Soccer forum. I'm trying and failing thus far to understand why Boards publish a rule and don't implement it. I've no issue with the rule being suspended whilst a trial occurs but if that is the case is it not just good governance to remove the rule during the trial period and how are users to know there is a trial going on if the rule banning the action being trialled is left in place? It's just bad administration and bad communication full stop and has nothing to do specifically with the Soccer forum.

Whether or not match talk should be allowed in the Superthreads is indeed a matter for the thread you have linked to but I'm agnostic about whether it's permitted or not so I'm not contributing to the debate. My issue is about not implementing the stated rule. Is that a matter for that thread?

54and56

Steve wrote: »

soccer forum policy is decided by the soccer mods and the feedback thread I linked above is the place to ask the questions you have.

Done.

Steve

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Well that's frustrating. The Mod Dudara said you (along with GavRedKing and Mickeroo) were a Soccer forum Mod and you are the only one who has bothered to respond to me.

Gav is the only one that is an actual Soccer mod, all three names mentioned are sports category mods.
Technically that makes us all 'soccer mods', same as admins can mod any forum on the site.. but we only get involved when requested or there is some unforseen event.

Thanks and yes I'd very much like to discuss why GavRedKing has twice promised to respond to me via PM on the issues I raised and simply refuses to do so despite posting regularly since Aug 20th which is when he last promised to revert to me as soon as he got back to his laptop.

I have been both polite and patient and expect when someone in authority gives a commitment to respond that they both mean it and follow through on it.

Honest answer to that is he had real life things to do outside of boards and so didn't have the time to respond to you. All mods, cmods, and admins are unpaid volunteers that give up their free time to keep this place running, so from time to time issues like this can get overlooked.

OK I'll do that but my issue is wider than the Soccer forum. I'm trying and failing thus far to understand why Boards publish a rule and don't implement it. I've no issue with the rule being suspended whilst a trial occurs but if that is the case is it not just good governance to remove the rule during the trial period and how are users to know there is a trial going on if the rule banning the action being trialled is left in place? It's just bad administration and bad communication full stop and has nothing to do specifically with the Soccer forum.

Whether or not match talk should be allowed in the Superthreads is indeed a matter for the thread you have linked to but I'm agnostic about whether it's permitted or not so I'm not contributing to the debate. My issue is about not implementing the stated rule. Is that a matter for that thread?

The soccer mods are aware that the particular rule is not being enforced and they will consider what needs to be done when the current feeedback cycle finishes.

I have suggested that they clarify it.

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Done.

Thanks for that.

dudara

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Well that's frustrating. The Mod Dudara said you (along with GavRedKing and Mickeroo) were a Soccer forum Mod and you are the only one who has bothered to respond to me.

To be crystal clear, firstly I am an Admin, not just a Mod. And in my initial response to you, I outlined the Boards hierarchy. I then named Steve, GavRedKing & Mickeroo as Sports CMods, not Soccer mods.

dudara

54and56

dudara wrote: »

To be crystal clear, firstly I am an Admin, not just a Mod. And in my initial response to you, I outlined the Boards hierarchy. I then named Steve, GavRedKing & Mickeroo as Sports CMods, not Soccer mods.

dudara

OK, thanks for clarifying. My bad for not understanding the subtleties of the hierarchy.