Soccer Forum Feedback 2017

Mickeroo · 03-07-2017 10:00AM #1

Might as well get the ball rolling on this. Thread will be locked a week from now as per usual.

Just copying Gav's rules from last year:

Trolling, abuse or breaches of the charter in this thread will be an immediate infraction and 2 week ban for anyone who breaches the rules. If you want to post in this thread you are agreeing to accept this rule, we want this thread to run smoothly as its all in your vested interests.

Couple of basic ground rules before we get going:

(1) No scapegoating of individual posters or Moderators. This isn't to turn into a witch hunt against people you don't like. This is your chance to tell us what we should or should not be doing.

(2) If someone makes a point that you don't agree with then either respond in a constructive manner with a decent counter-point or don't respond at all. Attempted witty one liners to undermine an argument are pointless and will not be tolerated. Most of the time you think you're being funny, you're not. If you think it's not a good idea outline reasons why you think it's not going to work instead of dragging the thread wildly off topic.

(3) Please, when you're making a point take a second to THINK about it and make sure it's what you actually want. So make sure when you're asking for something to happen that you realise it's going to effect you too, not just other users.

(4) As usual, we'll be using 'Thanks' to work out what suggestions seem the most supported, so if you agree what someone says thank their post and it gives us a better idea and makes it easier to keep track that trying to add up loads of individual posts. This is your chance to have your say so if you have an issue and you think it needs to be resolved mention it, but please remember this isn't a place to grind your axe, try be constructive in your input.

(5) Let's have a grown up discussion.

Thanks.

PhilipsR · 03-07-2017 10:41AM

The rule about no match talk in superthreads has been completely ignored in the past year. There's basically two conversations going on at once for games at times and as a neutral it feels impossible to discuss the games within the superthreads as it's seen as being reserved mainly for fans of that team.

GavRedKing · 03-07-2017 10:50AM

PhilipsR wrote: »

The rule about no match talk in superthreads has been completely ignored in the past year. There's basically two conversations going on at once for games at times and as a neutral it feels impossible to discuss the games within the superthreads as it's seen as being reserved mainly for fans of that team.

Thats a rule we'll probably have to revise and possibily get rid of from the charter all together.

Short of closing a teams thread for the duration of a game or carding posters for discussing matchs in their threads, both things I'm sure nobody wants to happen, theres nothing much we can do but encourage people to setup match threads. IMO, its far too drastic to do either of the above and I'm sure nearly everyone would agree on that.

Anyone can setup a match thread for a game if they want, its then up to the posters to engage in the match thread if they wish, however, theres nothing stopping neutral posters from posting in other clubs threads if they wish, about matches, transfers or gossip.

duffman13 · 03-07-2017 12:49PM

PhilipsR wrote: »

The rule about no match talk in superthreads has been completely ignored in the past year. There's basically two conversations going on at once for games at times and as a neutral it feels impossible to discuss the games within the superthreads as it's seen as being reserved mainly for fans of that team.

It's become a bit more bearable in the last year, you sometimes get good discussions in a team thread that would get lost in a match thread. I find match days on boards a bit more bearable this season as opposed to last.

LiamoSail · 03-07-2017 01:13PM

I don't post much, but have been enjoying this forum for about 10 years now, though it certainly seems to have gotten quieter of late.

With the variety of platforms now available for online discussion, there's an array of decent alternatives to boards which didn't always exist. I believe that the rigid modding and attitude of certain moderators towards posters is making the alternatives more attractive.

I'm a grown adult, when a mod PMs me using phrases I'd expect a primary school teacher to use in the class room (consider yourself lucky, you're on my radar etc) towards me, all it does is deter me from using the site. I'm only one person, but this sort of attitude deters others too and makes the alternatives considerably more attractive.

I guess my feedback is that the mods should lighten up a small bit, and bare in mind they're moderating sports discussion, not the Middle East peace talks

Turtyturd · 03-07-2017 06:07PM

Sure mods won't take to kindly to the following but is it worthwhile for posters to take time to contribute ideas when last years feedback thread was rather forcibly swept under the carpet and all ideas ignored?

Beasty · 03-07-2017 06:20PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Sure mods won't take to kindly to the following but is it worthwhile for posters to take time to contribute ideas when last years feedback thread was rather forcibly swept under the carpet and all ideas ignored?

I know I got distracted by an issue outside of Boards last August. I do recall one or two suggestions were to be followed up on. If you could mention what you have in mind we'll have a look and I'm happy to explain why stuff was not acted on or give the mods the backing to move them on

Generally I think the topic of match discussion in team threads is a good one to kick off with. I've been tempted to close a couple of threads on occasion myself but decided not to interfere. What are posters thoughts on this? Let's gauge how many want it to continue and how many want to go back to strict application of that rule (as I know it will rile quite a few if we do start temporarily closing threads and equally discussion during matches can relieve tensions a little on occasion)

HalloweenJack · 03-07-2017 06:34PM

I don't have a problem with match talk in the team threads. Posters are free to wander in and have a look themselves, it's not as if it's a separate world for the supporters.

IncognitoMan · 03-07-2017 06:55PM

A problem with reading certain match threads is there is a lot of "neutrals" just looking for cheap point scoring on each other and then they quickly disappear once the side they are trying to wind up looks like winning.

There's nothing wrong with discussing matches between sides you don't support obviously but it's fairly obvious that a few aren't interested in that. That's the main reason I feel that posters are skipping out on the match threads and sticking to the megathreads instead. It can be awful tedious to read through them.

dfx- · 03-07-2017 07:05PM

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I don't have a problem with match talk in the team threads. Posters are free to wander in and have a look themselves, it's not as if it's a separate world for the supporters.

But what a neutral might say in matchthread could be fair comment. In a superthread the same could and often is normally be considered provocative and have the regulars not happy.

There are also some posters who just want to discuss their club's match in their own thread with only their own fans and to keep their 'rivals' out.

It's definitely something worth discussing again as it was discussed last year, it is a big issue going by the volume of reported posts.

Liam McPoyle · 03-07-2017 07:22PM

dfx- wrote: »

But what a neutral might say in matchthread could be fair comment. In a superthread the same could and often is normally be considered provocative and have the regulars not happy.

There are also some posters who just want to discuss their club's match in their own thread with only their own fans and to keep their 'rivals' out.

It's definitely something worth discussing again as it was discussed last year, it is a big issue going by the volume of reported posts.

The match threads for United in the middle part of the season were unreadable because you have the same few people posting with no other intention but getting a rise or when the team was losing.

From those that Ive read the same happens in Liverpool match threads and probably on the lesser supported teams too.

The problem is that on the surface, the contributors aren't doing anything particularly wrong in terms of the letter of the law so it's difficult for mods to action these posts but it's clear that the same cluster of people post in the guise of having a discussion on the game or incidents therein but their sole intention is wumming.

At least in the super threads one can read / post about the match and not have to read some numptys attempt at trolling.

It would be imo a massive mistake to not allow match discussion in the the super threads.

dfx- · 03-07-2017 08:10PM

Rod Munch wrote: »

The match threads for United in the middle part of the season were unreadable because you have the same few people posting with no other intention but getting a rise or when the team was losing.

From those that Ive read the same happens in Liverpool match threads and probably on the lesser supported teams too.

The problem is that on the surface, the contributors aren't doing anything particularly wrong in terms of the letter of the law so it's difficult for mods to action these posts but it's clear that the same cluster of people post in the guise of having a discussion on the game or incidents therein but their sole intention is wumming.

At least in the super threads one can read / post about the match and not have to read some numptys attempt at trolling.

It would be imo a massive mistake to not allow match discussion in the the super threads.

On this one:

On the other hand, the 'numptys' will go where the discussion is and the trolls will go where they have the greatest impact. That's going to be the superthread with the highest concentration of people to wind up.

And people are very sensitive on who posts what in 'their' superthread.

I would add in defence of most matchthreads, they are often a highlight of a season/year as a neutral. Ireland v Italy in 2016 being a prime example. Brazil v Germany, Ireland v Germany etc, all great matchthreads.

Liam McPoyle · 03-07-2017 09:49PM

dfx- wrote: »

On this one:

On the other hand, the 'numptys' will go where the discussion is and the trolls will go where they have the greatest impact. That's going to be the superthread with the highest concentration of people to wind up.

And people are very sensitive on who posts what in 'their' superthread.

I would add in defence of most matchthreads, they are often a highlight of a season/year as a neutral. Ireland v Italy in 2016 being a prime example. Brazil v Germany, Ireland v Germany etc, all great matchthreads.

That's the thing though, they don't go into the superthread (I can only speak for the United one with any certainty it has to be said) because they know that what they will get away with in a match thread wouldn't be gotten away with in a superthread because it is trolling.

The match threads are a catch all where imo alot more leeway is given than in the superthreads.

It leads to the question that why could someone post something in a match thread and get away with it but if they posted it in a superthread they may face a card?

Surely trolling is trolling, no matter where it's posted?

Look, in the main I don't have an issue with the forum or the moderation of it. I have posters on ignore that are ignore worthy, there are posters who are as transparent as a glass of water and I pass no remarks on them, I'm a grown man and don't get my panties in a bunch about the internet but my 2c is that banning match chat from the superthreads would be a bad idea.

Cantona's Collars · 03-07-2017 10:02PM

You could lay bets on which posters would appear in United match threads if they were losing,the same few would appear and the whole thread would go down the toilet.Even reporting them didn't seem to be a deterrent yet anyone who called them out got flack from mods.
A bit of craic between opposition fans is grand yet the same few seem to get some kind of kick out of ruining threads.A bit more of a crackdown on this carry on wouldn't be a bad thing at all.
We've also seen the old chestnut of using derogatory nicknames for managers and players popping up.I reported several cases of this yet nothing was done, previously this was clamped down on and no excuses accepted.

alchemist33 · 03-07-2017 10:35PM

I don't know if this came up in last years feedback thread but opening the forum for the Euros didn't work well. I know Soccer regulars are well capable of winding others up, and most of those who came in for the tournament were grand, but in general the forum had more trolling than the previous time it was opened for the WC. I'd be against it being opened again for the WC in Russia. There's bound to be an After Hours thread for them.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch · 04-07-2017 08:14AM

Controversial one here - allow the calling out of trolls on match threads.

Don't card it or sanction it.

LuckyLloyd · 04-07-2017 09:27AM

What's the point of being on a shared football forum at all like if you can't take a little heat in a match thread if your team loses? The match threads keep all the nonsense of a match in one place. The match will always get discussed after the fact in a review / analysis type way in the superthreads anyway.

Some posters want to do all their posting in the superthreads because what they really want is a club specific forum. Neutral ground match threads should be a key feature or point of appeal of the forum, not a negative.

gandalf · 04-07-2017 10:24AM

alchemist33 wrote: »

I don't know if this came up in last years feedback thread but opening the forum for the Euros didn't work well. I know Soccer regulars are well capable of winding others up, and most of those who came in for the tournament were grand, but in general the forum had more trolling than the previous time it was opened for the WC. I'd be against it being opened again for the WC in Russia. There's bound to be an After Hours thread for them.

Absolutely agree with this as well. The Euros forum was a mess and really showed that the current access system is a necessity for the forum. I too would be against doing the same for WC2018.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch · 04-07-2017 10:28AM

Yes, another dissenting voice to opening up for the 2018WC.

The internet is going to be full of those paid Russian trolls again, tenfold with Russia hosting.

At the very least have a tournament subforum, but that should also be restricted to 25+ or 50+ postcount users, or a 1+month join date.

The place is going to be riddled with them otherwise.

04-07-2017 10:40AM

I actually think the match threads have gotten a good bit better since the posting in superthreads started. The reason for this? I don't really know. Maybe it's because in the superthreads you can continue pre match discussion that may make someone who didn't see the previous discussion being another team's fan latch onto as fanboyism to be put down.

Obviously there are people who go into match threads just to wind up, even just seeing the same people thanking the same people (even when you have the thanker on ignore) who come in every week can be a bit annoying.

However, the majority of my posts in here are probably in match threads. Less now than in the past but I think even a lot of the ones who previously would have been thread spoilers have either become more understood or people know what they're upto and laugh at them more than engage. Overall I think they're better than they've been since I started posting. This has obviously coincided with match discussion in superthreads.

Also if you outlaw it again what are the likes of the Arsenal fans especially to do? Start a thread that will get 10 replies for a game at home to WBA on Saturday at 3pm? Would clog up the forum.

GavRedKing · 04-07-2017 10:43AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What's the point of being on a shared football forum at all like if you can't take a little heat in a match thread if your team loses? The match threads keep all the nonsense of a match in one place. The match will always get discussed after the fact in a review / analysis type way in the superthreads anyway.

Some posters want to do all their posting in the superthreads because what they really want is a club specific forum. Neutral ground match threads should be a key feature or point of appeal of the forum, not a negative.

With the closing of the Spurs and Chelsea private forums, thats not going to happen at all.

Mickeroo · 04-07-2017 10:44AM

Liam O wrote: »

Also if you outlaw it again what are the likes of the Arsenal fans especially to do? Start a thread that will get 10 replies for a game at home to WBA on Saturday at 3pm? Would clog up the forum.

That would e simple to deal with. If no match thread is started then discussion carries on in the superthread, if there's a match thread then discussion goes over there. Only two team have match threads every single week anyway.

gandalf · 04-07-2017 10:46AM

Don't see the problem with having match discussions in the superthreads. The Arsenal superthread contained far better match discussions than the dedicated match threads as some users were using the match thread to continue to spew the tired old anti Arsenal bile that certain fans seem to perpetuate. I'd be in favour of allowing match discussions in the superthreads as well as a specific match thread, they tend to foster different types of discussion tbh.

gandalf · 04-07-2017 10:49AM

GavRedKing wrote: »

With the closing of the Spurs and Chelsea private forums, thats not going to happen at all.

TBH the closing of the Spurs forum without any consultation with the community there is pathetic and craven. I've posted on the thread in their forum and attempted to post on the so called feedback forum.

Seriously Gav if you or any of the other soccer mods have anything to do with this decision and the way it has been perpetuated you should hang your heads in shame.

04-07-2017 10:52AM

Mickeroo wrote: »

That would e simple to deal with. If no match thread is started then discussion carries on in the superthread, if there's a match thread then discussion goes over there. Only two team have match threads every single week anyway.

But then it turns into a one rule for us and them kind of thing and would lead to annoyance for everyone. I've been more annoyed by the people posting about people not posting in match threads than the actual not posting in match threads the last year tbh.

GavRedKing · 04-07-2017 10:58AM

gandalf wrote: »

TBH the closing of the Spurs forum without any consultation with the community there is pathetic and craven. I've posted on the thread in their forum and attempted to post on the so called feedback forum.

Seriously Gav if you or any of the other soccer mods have anything to do with this decision and the way it has been perpetuated you should hang your heads in shame.

Same thing happened in the Chelsea supporter group, closed without discussion and I'm a mod over there too.

This has been covered by Beasty in both private forums with his post outlining Boards stance on this, I dont think it would be constructive to discuss it here, it will just end up going in circles.

I will say though that every year, without fail, a raft of posts here usually question why there are 2 seperate private forums, at the very least those questions have been nipped in the bud.

For the record, I've posted over in the Spurs forum and I also have no issue with either forum being closed down and I've said as much, there is nothing stopping the Spurs fans from posting in the main forum, if they choose to go elsewhere, again, nothing stopping them from doing so but there was no point in having 2 seperate forums while we have a dedicated Soccer Forum, so the Admins/powers that be were right, IMO, to close both as they serve no purpose that the main forum cant already fulfill.

This decision was carried out above the Soccer Mods and I'm sure it was being discussed for sometime and wasnt a decision taken lightly.

Mickeroo · 04-07-2017 11:03AM

Liam O wrote: »

But then it turns into a one rule for us and them kind of thing and would lead to annoyance for everyone. I've been more annoyed by the people posting about people not posting in match threads than the actual not posting in match threads the last year tbh.

No it would be same rule for everyone. If there's no match thread then discussion takes place in the superthread, if there's a match thread it goes to that. seems entirely straight forward to me.

This is purely hypothetical to the scenario where we start enforcing the "no discussion in match threads" rule to the letter btw. I have no real issue with the current set up but if the consensus is things stay as they are then that rule will have to be removed from the charter since it isn't enforced. Applying the rule as it stand probably means locking superthreads for the duration of a match otherwise it would be a nightmare.

GavRedKing · 04-07-2017 11:06AM

At this rate, its probably better to remove from the charter, the part about discussing matches in the superthread.

It happens for every club so we can either enforce it and dish out cards all over the place or allow match chat and remove it from the charter as its not really fit for purpose.

Theres probably only 3 or 4 clubs that start regular/semi-regular match threads and the rest are in their own superthreads or the General Premier League thread or the UCL/Europa League thread.

gandalf · 04-07-2017 11:09AM

TBH Gav as a former mod of soccer I tried shutting it down as well but at that time the admins protected it. As for the reasons I'd understand if the community wasn't well established but that was a community that was in place over 11 years. I'm glad it wasn't the soccer mods that made the decision (tbf I didn't think you guys would) but tbh the reasons given were fluffy at best and tbh there are a whole raft of hosted forums that are not active at all which should have been culled first.

Given no consultation took place with the community there I'd beg to differ and state the decision was made very lightly without any consideration for the users of the forum or the consequences. I'll leave it at that as the best place to express this frustration with the so called "high ups" is the feedback forum if they see fit to allow a discussion there.

5starpool · 04-07-2017 11:15AM

On the match threads, it has been noticeably moving back to the superthreads. Only Liverpool and Utd games generally have their own match threads no, although occasionally someone will create one for a Chelsea vs Arsenal match or similar. There is lot of discussion in the club threads of teams like Arsenal (and probably will for Chelsea and Spurs a bit more now) who have lots of fans on here but don't use match threads.

When match threads were introduced first the rules were far too stringent, and lots of posters were lost to the forum because of this (the likes of redspider in the LFC thread).

I'm personally in favour of them, although I don't want to see a situation that is unworkable like bans for posting match content in superthreads, or them being closed. Match threads generally work very well, except for either people trolling, or worse I think, people being attacked as trolls when it is just a dissenting opinion.

If match threads and superthreads can be used for the same match discussions, then the same nodding rules need to be applied. If someone can post 'lol, team x are useless, this is hilarious' in a match thread, they have to be allowed to do the same in a superthread where match discussion is happening. Schadenfreude is a large part of being a football fan, and while ideally everyone would debate as if they were wearing a top hat and monocle, we all know this doesn't happen.

I think my point I that, if some fans are using a superthread as match thread, there need be less defensive behaviour of 'territory', and acceptance that by using superthreads more for match talk, you are encouraging behaviour in the superthreads that prompted people to retreat there from match threads, and if people follow the bulk of the chat, they shouldn't be punished if they wouldn't be for saying something in a match thread.

I'm not a big believer in modding where users self police essentially, so people have to take responsibility for their own posts, but any intervention by mods should be consistent across the forum, not differing depending one what thread it was in. Any specific rules in the charter relating to different types of threads should be removed in my view. The same rules should apply everywhere.

LiamoSail · 04-07-2017 11:19AM

Am I missing something here wrt the Spurs/Chelsea private forums? Surely they can have the exact same threads within the soccer forum, the only difference being it's within the sports section rather than the one it had previously been?

Seems a mountain out of a molehill

Soccer Forum Feedback 2017

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