Old housemate and rent refund

marykitty47

Hi all so old housemate handed in his notice on the 24th June and moved out the 24th July. We pay on a per house basis not per room so he has paid his rent on the 1st July for the whole month which is direct debited from an account. Now as he moved out on the 24th and gave his 1 months notice he is insisting we pay him the €90 for the last week as the new tenant didn't move in until the 1st August. Do have to pay him the €90 surely he should love live at the loss considering it was his choice to move.

Cuddlesworth

Who did he pay his rent to?

I love Sean nos

Is there a lease in place or a part IV?

padd b1975

Did he have the option of staying for the last week if he wanted to?

If he had, tell him to take a running jump.

myshirt

He is due the money back

FishOnABike

Is the lease / rent paid weekly or per calendar month ? If rent is per calendar month then I would expect to have to pay July's rent when due and due in full for any month or part thereof. I wouldn't expect a refund.

To me it's the same principle as taxing a car. If I buy an untaxed car on 31st July I have to tax it for the entire month of July. If I wait until 1st August I only have to tax it from August on.

There's usually a need for some overlap when moving. I'd expect to have to budget for double rent during the move. If it was a concern, your housemate should have timed the move to coincide with the rental period to avoid any overlap.

awec

I wouldn't give it back.

If he was leaving it was up to him to get a replacement tenant. If he wanted a rent refund he should have got a new tenant in for the date he moved out. He pays per month, he has use of the room for that month, if he moves out a week early that's his problem.

The remaining housemates should not be out of pocket during the transition.

Fol20

He gave his months notice to leave. He left a month later. Give him the pro rata amount backof the 7 or days left in the month. It's not like taxing cars. He gave a months notice which is the norm and he didn't leave early so just give it back to him. It's up to the existing tenants or the ll to get new tenant in. Not him. He's just renting.

irelandrover

Fol20 wrote: »

He gave his months notice to leave. He left a month later. Give him the pro rata amount backof the 7 or days left in the month. It's not like taxing cars. He gave a months notice which is the norm and he didn't leave early so just give it back to him. It's up to the existing tenants or the ll to get new tenant in. Not him. He's just renting.

if the whole apartment was rented and not just his room i see no reason why he should get his rent back. Why should the others be out of pocket because he broke the lease.

awec

Fol20 wrote: »

He gave his months notice to leave. He left a month later. Give him the pro rata amount backof the 7 or days left in the month. It's not like taxing cars. He gave a months notice which is the norm and he didn't leave early so just give it back to him. It's up to the existing tenants or the ll to get new tenant in. Not him. He's just renting.

Nothing to do with the landlord, he rents out the property at x price per month, it's not his concern if there is 1 less tenant, he gets paid the same regardless.

It is the remaining tenants problem to find a new tenant (as well as the guy leaving), but if the tenant who is leaving wants part of his rent back then it's up to him to find someone to take over from him who will give him the weeks worth of rent.

You pay rent for the month in advance, there's none of this pro-rata refund nonsense.

Zillah

On the 24th of June he was giving you notice that July would be his last month. It's at least one month's notice, not precisely a month's notice. Did he expect someone to move in a week before the new month started? Tell him he's an idiot. He committed to renting it until the end of July, makes no difference to you that he left a week early (assuming it was voluntary).

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awec

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Because the tenancy would be in arrears if the monthly rent was short?

The landlord takes the rent once per month, you can't decide you're just going to pay half a month of your share. You pay the landlord for the month and if you want to move out mid-month you find someone who'll pay to take over from you.

Zillah

Fol20 wrote: »

He gave his months notice to leave. He left a month later. Give him the pro rata amount backof the 7 or days left in the month. It's not like taxing cars. He gave a months notice which is the norm and he didn't leave early so just give it back to him. It's up to the existing tenants or the ll to get new tenant in. Not him. He's just renting.

His tenancy goes on a monthly basis. You are essentially saying that he should be allowed to rent his room for 24 days, which is ridiculous unless he's going to find a replacement to take over. He either rents it for July or he doesn't.

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awec

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If the new tenant moved in the last week then he'd have given a weeks worth of rent to the tenant moving out. The landlord and other housemates aren't involved in the money side of things, as far as they are concerned July is paid for.

The fact remains that the guy moving out has paid for July, he had use of the property until the end of July if he wanted and if he wanted to move out early he should have got the new tenant to move in early. If that wasn't possible then it's tough really, he's the one who decided to move out in the middle of a month. It's not the remaining tenants job to get someone in for that last week, as far as they are concerned all they need is someone in to pay the August rent. It's solely the responsibility of the guy moving out to get someone in mid-month if he is wanting some money back.

Pelvis

Seeing as he gave a month's notice there is absolutely no reason you couldn't have had someone ready to move in the day he moved out.

IMO you should give him the money back. This notion about it being his responsibility to get a new tenant in is nonsense, no matter where I live I don't want the guy leaving to pick the next guy to move in ffs! I'm the one that's gonna have to live with them, it's on me to pick someone suitable.

This could have all be sorted with a 2 min conversation as soon as he said he was leaving. You all made a complete balls of a very simple situation.

awec

Pelvis wrote: »

Seeing as he gave a month's notice there is absolutely no reason you couldn't have had someone ready to move in the day he moved out.

IMO you should give him the money back. This notion about it being his responsibility to get a new tenant in is nonsense, no matter where I live I don't want the guy leaving to pick the next guy to move in ffs! I'm the one that's gonna have to live with them, it's on me to pick someone suitable.

This could have all be sorted with a 2 min conversation as soon as he said he was leaving. You all made a complete balls of a very simple situation.

Getting someone to move in the day he moved out is not their problem. It's their responsibility to get someone for the next month. You pay for a month in advance, there is no "oh i'll take the first 3 weeks of the next month". It doesn't work like that.

Can you imagine booking a hotel room for a night, and staying there for the night, but checking out at 6am and demanding a pro-rata refund from the hotel's checkout time to the time you actually checked out?

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

Getting someone to move in the day he moved out is not their problem.

Says who? I've never rented anywhere that expected me to find a replacement housemate should I move on.

awec

Pelvis wrote: »

Says who? I've never rented anywhere that expected me to find a replacement housemate should I move on.

You are entirely missing the point.

Says the fact that the rent has been paid for July and that's that. The remaining housemates need someone for August, July is sorted.

If the guy wants to move out a week early that's up to him, he's not getting his rent back. Who does he expect to reimburse him?

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

You are entirely missing the point.

Says the fact that the rent has been paid for July and that's that. The remaining housemates need someone for August, July is sorted.

If the guy wants to move out a week early that's up to him, he's not getting his rent back. Who does he expect to reimburse him?

By saying he moved out a week early you imply he was obligated to stay. Maybe he was only obligated to provide a month's notice?

As I said previously, this shit show was cause by lack of communication. People are generally understanding and accommodating, and in the real world people don't only move house on the 1st of the month.

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awec

Pelvis wrote: »

By saying he moved out a week early you imply he was obligated to stay. Maybe he was only obligated to provide a month's notice?

As I said previously, this shit show was cause by lack of communication. People are generally understanding and accommodating, and in the real world people don't only move house on the 1st of the month.

He is not obligated to stay. He can leave at any time, he's just not getting his rent back.

You pay for a month in advance. There is no "I'm only paying for 3 weeks". He has paid (as he should have) for the entirety of July.

He can leave at any time he wants, but if he wants to get some money back he (with the other housemates) needs to find a new tenant who will pay him back his rent. But at the end of the day, it's not the other housemates problem to find someone to move in mid-month, their main concern is getting someone for next month.

The shit show is caused by the guy who is moving out not understanding how renting works and who thinks the remaining housemates should be left out of pocket because he wants to move out mid-month.

awec

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So? He is not renting the room, they rent the whole property.

The entirety of July's rent was due at the start of July. You cannot just make up the length of time you are going to pay for.

He can give 1 months notice mid-month all he wants, but when the start of the month comes round he still owes rent for the entirety of the next month. It's his problem to find reimbursement (which won't come from the landlord or from the other housemates) if he wants some of July's rent back.

pawrick

Who got the new tenant? Usually the person moving out has to find the replacement in a house share. This sorts out the messing about trying to sort out the overlap. If he found the tenant it's up to him to ensure there is no gap otherwise he deals with the loss for the week. If someone else found the tenant but didn't insist on no gap i think that person is responsible and it's bad form not to pay back the guy moving out. This assumes there is no formal agreement regarding finding replacement tenants which he signed up to.

Zillah

Some people here don't seem to understand that the property is rented on a monthly basis. He can choose to rent it for July or not. He can choose to rent it for August on not. He chose to rent a room for July. It's that simple. If he doesn't want to rent it for August he has to give a least a month's notice that he won't be renting it for August. He gave notice on June 24, so he gave notice of one month and six days that he wouldn't be renting the room in August. He chose to rent for July. He paid for July. The room was his, and his alone, until August 1st. He can't demand payment back because he chose to sleep somewhere else for the last week of July. That's no one's business but his own.

If you want to end your tenancy before the end of the month and not be out of pocket you need to find someone willing to move in mid-month. This is exactly what my last housemate did. She needed to move out on the 20th or something like that, so we found someone willing to move in on that date and they settled the difference between them. The former housemate is the one who paid for that month to the landlord and the new incoming tenant, who moved in mid-month, reimbursed her.

I don't know how to make it clearer than that.

Pelvis

Pelvis wrote: »

Says who? I've never rented anywhere that expected me to find a replacement housemate should I move on.

It's fairly standard in houseshares. In all the houseshares I've lived in it was the expectation, however sometimes those living there would offer to find the replacement instead which would absolve the person moving out of responsibility for rent until the new person moves in. The default position however that a person moving out sources a replacement.

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Fol20

Sorry I should have also said that if all of the tenants are still under a fixed term lease, he would be liable for it and I would put the onus on him to find a new tenant.

If your outside of a fixed term lease if he was renting the entire place, he can just give a months notice and be done with it. So for example. If he signed the contract on the 1st of the Jan 2017. Then on the 15 of July 2019. He provided notice to vacate. He could then leave on the 15th and the balance owed or due would be pro rata'd

bludcrazetiger

so he gave you 1 months notice on the 24th and left on the 24th of the following month, its pretty obvious you owe him the weeks rent back in my opinion.

bludcrazetiger

awec wrote: »

You are entirely missing the point.

Says the fact that the rent has been paid for July and that's that. The remaining housemates need someone for August, July is sorted.

If the guy wants to move out a week early that's up to him, he's not getting his rent back. Who does he expect to reimburse him?

who said he wanted to move out a week early ?
Infact he left on time!
He gave a 30 days notice on the 24th, and then left the 24th of the following month, the 1 week rent is due back.

its all very easy!

awec

Fol20 wrote: »

Sorry I should have also said that if all of the tenants are still under a fixed term lease, he would be liable for it and I would put the onus on him to find a new tenant.

If your outside of a fixed term lease if he was renting the entire place, he can just give a months notice and be done with it. So for example. If he signed the contract on the 1st of the Jan 2017. Then on the 15 of July 2019. He provided notice to vacate. He could then leave on the 15th and the balance owed or due would be pro rata'd

Yea but in that case the tenancy is ending cause he rents the entire place.

The tenancy is not ending in this scenario.

awec

bludcrazetiger wrote: »

who said he wanted to move out a week early ?
Infact he left on time!
He gave a 30 days notice on the 24th, and then left the 24th of the following month, the 1 week rent is due back.

its all very easy!

How do people not get this?

You cannot just magically decide off your own bat that you are not paying an entire months rent. Rent is not paid on a rolling 30 day period, it is calendar months. You pay on the 1st day of the month for the entire month (or whatever day of the month you pay on).

It matters not one iota that he gave notice on the 24th, he OWED rent for the entirety of July. He left a week before the end of July, his choice and his problem.

Who do you think reimburses him?

The only thing that his notice does is inform the remaining housemates that he won't be paying rent for August. Nothing more. He may as well have given his notice on the 31st July, giving it a week earlier doesn't give him any magic entitlements.

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awec

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No, it isn't. You pay on a set day every month and it covers you until that day the next month. It is a fixed term.

If you rented on a per-week basis then you pay rent once a week and it covers you until that day the next week. If you moved out midweek you wouldn't get half a week back.

Graham

It's a hard one to answer with any certainty when we don't know the specifics.

Assuming the original occupants all signed a lease/rental agreement, I would think it reasonable to suggest the original tenants remain jointly liable for the rent until they are replaced.

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

How do people not get this?

You cannot just magically decide off your own bat that you are not paying an entire months rent. Rent is not paid on a rolling 30 day period, it is calendar months. You pay on the 1st day of the month for the entire month (or whatever day of the month you pay on).

It matters not one iota that he gave notice on the 24th, he OWED rent for the entirety of July. He left a week before the end of July, his choice and his problem.

Who do you think reimburses him?

The only thing that his notice does is inform the remaining housemates that he won't be paying rent for August. Nothing more. He may as well have given his notice on the 31st July, giving it a week earlier doesn't give him any magic entitlements.

I don't pay rent on the 1st of the month. Nor do I pay per calendar month.

How do you not get that there are no rules with regards to renting. It's solely down to the terms laid out in the rental agreement. Which you nor I have read in this case. For all we know his rental agreement just states that 30 days notice must be given, which it was.

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

No, it isn't. You pay on a set day every month and it covers you until that day the next month. It is a fixed term.

That's not how my rent works.

awec

Pelvis wrote: »

I don't pay rent on the 1st of the month. Nor do I pay per calendar month.

How do you not get that there are no rules with regards to renting. It's solely down to the terms laid out in the rental agreement. Which you nor I have read in this case. For all we know his rental agreement just states that 30 days notice must be given, which it was.

The actual date doesn't matter, we are using the 1st as an example. Whatever period you pay in, that's what you pay for. You don't magically decide you're going to pay for less.

What rental agreement are you talking about? The tenancy is not ending in this situation, they are not giving notice to the landlord.

People are confusing someone moving out of a house share and a tenancy coming to an end with the landlord being given his notice.

awec

Pelvis wrote: »

That's not how my rent works.

Good for you, but again that's entirely irrelevant. In this case they pay per month (like 95% of all rentals out there), not makey-uppey times for whatever length of time they fancy paying for.

This is getting close to the realms of the people who think they don't have to pay rent for when they're on holiday etc.

bludcrazetiger

awec wrote: »

Good for you, but again that's entirely irrelevant. In this case they pay per month (like 95% of all rentals out there), not makey-uppey times for whatever length of time they fancy paying for.

This is getting close to the realms of the people who think they don't have to pay rent for when they're on holiday etc.

tbh its something the guy needs to decide himself, imo he owes it back - and in yours you feel he is right to keep the money!

if this guy who moved out rented the whole property with your man, then he should let ur man keep the 90e, where if he just rented a room ur man should give the money back as he gave and stuck to a 30 days notice.

dilallio

If he knew he was leaving on the 24th July, then why did he pay up to the end of July?

Sounds like he may have originally believed that he was obligated to pay the full month, but changed his mind afterwards.

Regardless of what he is or isn't entitled to, if he paid the full month in advance without coming to an agreement about the last 'unused' week of the month, then it was reasonable for the other tenants to assume that he would not be looking for a refund.

awec

bludcrazetiger wrote: »

tbh its something the guy needs to decide himself, imo he owes it back - and in yours you feel he is right to keep the money!

if this guy who moved out rented the whole property with your man, then he should let ur man keep the 90e, where if he just rented a room ur man should give the money back as he gave and stuck to a 30 days notice.

If he just rented a room then 100% he would be due it back as he'd have given 30 days notice to the landlord and it would be the landlord's responsibility to source a new tenant for that room.

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

The actual date doesn't matter, we are using the 1st as an example. Whatever period you pay in, that's what you pay for. You don't magically decide you're going to pay for less.

What rental agreement are you talking about? The tenancy is not ending in this situation, they are not giving notice to the landlord.

People are confusing someone moving out of a house share and a tenancy coming to an end with the landlord being given his notice.

No the tenancy is not ending, which means it's up to the people involved to sort this amongst themselves when the issue arises. And it's typical in a house share to arrange for a new tenant to move in when the old tenant moves out. The fact that most humans are capable of rudimentary arithmetic means we can calculate rent pro rata at any point throughout the month. Therefore avoiding such mishaps. It's really quite astonishing.

bludcrazetiger

awec wrote: »

If he just rented a room then 100% he would be due it back as he'd have given 30 days notice to the landlord and it would be the landlord's responsibility to source a new tenant for that room.

agree, this has happened to me before and I got my money back no questions asked (although he did take out about 20 euro as I broke a small flimsy bed side lamp which was in the room when I moved in! I could have replaced it myself for 10e! - but I wasn't going to argue)

awec

Pelvis wrote: »

No the tenancy is not ending, which means it's up to the people involved to sort this amongst themselves when the issue arises. And it's typical in a house share to arrange for a new tenant to move in when the old tenant moves out. The fact that most humans are capable of rudimentary arithmetic means we can calculate rent pro rata at any point throughout the month. Therefore avoiding such mishaps. It's really quite astonishing.

And if they couldn't get a tenant to move in on that date? Who ends up out of pocket?

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

And if they couldn't get a tenant to move in on that date?

Unless they live in the back arse of no where this is simply not possible in Ireland atm. Even if someone couldn't physically move on the date plenty would happily pay from that date to secure the room. I did this myself in my current place.

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Mrs OBumble

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No - that is not how any of my own rentals worked. Or indeed how it works with my tenants today.

I certainly did pay on a set day per month but when I gave notice I only paid the outstanding time left in my notice, I did not have to pay the full month.

Same here.

Just cos someone stays until the 5th of August (for example) doesnt make them necessarily liable for the whole month.

Ideally i try to arrange things so a person only pays for when they stay.

Graham

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It's entirely believable.

4 people take on a tenancy for a house for a year, one decides to move out.

The landlord is not likely to accept a temporary reduction in rent.