Getting Freesat Installed

Ste-

Hi,

Looking to get a freesat dish installed, going price seems to be around 200. So I'm then going to feed this into a vbox XTi-3340 then feed those into two tvheadend servers I current have for dvb-t (saorview).

Does this sound right ? I'm thinking once I get this done I can forgo the dvb-t and just use the vbox rte streams.

Is my thinking correct on all this or am I missing a step/ any hardware ?

Cheers,

Ste-.

Johnboy1951

'freesat' refers to the firmware on Freesat branded boxes. It is the soft/firm ware that does the channel management and EPG etc for the box.

So you will get a Satellite dish pointed at the Astra satellites.
It can receive both Free to Air and Encrypted channels from those satellites.

Anyway ...

..... you have me confused by the mention of two tvheadend servers.
Why do you have two?
or do you mean one server with two DVB-T tuners for Saorview?

As far as I am aware Tvheadend can use the tuners in the VBox and also manage the EPG and recordings etc etc. and make it all available throughout the premises (and beyond if required).

It might be a better option than using the VBox directly as it does not have any EPG capabilities other than what it gets over the air ...... so Now & Next for the satellite channels.

That is my understanding ....... I do not own the device so open to correction

Ste-

I have two tvheadend servers so one mirrors the other. One goes no problem just point everything to the backup.
If I can only run it on one I'm not too bothered.

So say I got this and then the vbox it should in theory work the way I'm thinking correct ?

Johnboy1951

You will need a Satellite dish similar to that, plus an LNB with sufficient outputs for your present and future use, and cabling etc etc. if doing the job yourself.

Do you intend to get a contractor?
Depending on your location a slightly larger dish might be beneficial ..... the contractor should be able to advise.

There should be no difficulty in the second server accessing whatever the first one does.

I have this device for the Satellite channels
https://www.amazon.de/Telestar-Digibit-Sat-IP-Netzwerk-Transmitter/dp/B008OVPYCQ
and several instances of Tvheadend can access the tuners at the same time (different tuner for each instance).

Ste-

That looks better than the vbox as it's cheaper and as you've explained works with tvheadend. doe sit expose all channels to an m3u file or do i put each channel in as a seperate mux like it'd have to be done on the vbox?

Yeah i'd be getting someone to install the dish as if I could get on the roof to do these things it'd either go on fire or I'd fall off or both.

Johnboy1951

Ste- wrote: »

That looks better than the vbox as it's cheaper and as you've explained works with tvheadend. doe sit expose all channels to an m3u file or do i put each channel in as a seperate mux like it'd have to be done on the vbox?

Yeah i'd be getting someone to install the dish as if I could get on the roof to do these things it'd either go on fire or I'd fall off or both.

The one I linked to has four tuners but all are satellite, so you would need to continue to use your existing Saorview tuners for tvheadend.

I do not use m3u files (Playlist) at all, but they can be generated by the box after you set up your channels. Tvheadend can also generate a Playlist.

I did no set up in the Telestar, except turning off functions I don't use.
Just connect the box to the LAN that the server is on, and Tvheadend will automatically find the SAT>IP networked tuners and use them as if they are within the server.

Johnboy1951

Ste- wrote: »

That looks better than the vbox as it's cheaper and as you've explained works with tvheadend. doe sit expose all channels to an m3u file or do i put each channel in as a seperate mux like it'd have to be done on the vbox?

Yeah i'd be getting someone to install the dish as if I could get on the roof to do these things it'd either go on fire or I'd fall off or both.

The one I linked to has four tuners but all are satellite, so you would need to continue to use your existing Saorview tuners for tvheadend.

I do not use m3u files (Playlist) at all, but they can be generated by the box after you set up your channels. Tvheadend can also generate a Playlist.

I did no set up in the Telestar, except turning off functions I don't use.
Just connect the box to the LAN that the server is on, and Tvheadend will automatically find the SAT>IP networked tuners and use them as if they are within the server.


BTW, that Telestar can use a Unicable II LNB so only one cable needs to be fed to it to work the four tuners.

winston_1

Yeah i'd be getting someone to install the dish as if I could get on the roof to do these things it'd either go on fire or I'd fall off or both.
You don't need to install the dish on the roof.

Gerry Wicklow

Ste- wrote: »

.....

Yeah i'd be getting someone to install the dish as if I could get on the roof to do these things it'd either go on fire or I'd fall off or both.

A dish does not have to be on a roof as long as it has a clear view to the satellite. Put your address into this site and select 28.2E Astra as the required sat to give you an idea of direction.

Ste-

In all honesty it'd be better if a pro installed it. Not handy with those type things. What kind of dish would be best, the one I linked earlier would that do the job?

PabloAndRoy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You will need a Satellite dish similar to that, plus an LNB with sufficient outputs for your present and future use, and cabling etc etc. if doing the job yourself.

Do you intend to get a contractor?
Depending on your location a slightly larger dish might be beneficial ..... the contractor should be able to advise.

There should be no difficulty in the second server accessing whatever the first one does.

I have this device for the Satellite channels
https://www.amazon.de/Telestar-Digibit-Sat-IP-Netzwerk-Transmitter/dp/B008OVPYCQ
and several instances of Tvheadend can access the tuners at the same time (different tuner for each instance).

+1 for the Telestar ... I also use one of these with TVHeadend and it is faultless and ridiculously good value.

Johnboy1951

There are other approaches too such as posted in the last post in this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102464330

There are a number of threads dealing with schemes to manage things on one device and distributing over the LAN.

You cannot read too much before committing IMO

Ste-

Reading up more on Unicable II LNB and it does say you can't use a mini dish. Does that mean the 60cm dish is too small the other one on http://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Dishes.html lists a 80cm would this be a better size or would the 60cm be big enough for the Unicable II LNB ?

I think the Unicable is the way to go rather than having 2 or 4 cables running round the house.

Johnboy1951

Ste- wrote: »

Reading up more on Unicable II LNB and it does say you can't use a mini dish. Does that mean the 60cm dish is too small the other one on http://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Dishes.html lists a 80cm would this be a better size or would the 60cm be big enough for the Unicable II LNB ?

I think the Unicable is the way to go rather than having 2 or 4 cables running round the house.

I am unsure what you have in mind there.

The way I approached it was this .....
to have Sat & Saorview available I would need two coax cables in each room, or some other means of joining the signals on one cable and splitting them again in each room, and have a combi STB in each room to make the best of things. Each room would then need its own drive for recording and time shift.
In addition the connection points would be fixed to a wall.

My alternative was to run Cat5e to each room, from a central switch connected to the tuner/server.
Each room then has a client device without tuners and a Cat5e connection to use the server tuners and EPG and recording facility.
In addition any device (PC, tablet, phone etc) that can run software can tune into the TV channels (both Sat & Saorview) and also any recording no matter which device instigated the recording, as they are all stored on the server. This can be done wired or wireless!

So the only coax in use in my set up is that coming from the aerial and dish to the server/tuner box.
If I want additional tuners they are added at the server and cabled to there.
From there everything is over LAN.

Ste-

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I am unsure what you have in mind there.

The way I approached it was this .....
to have Sat & Saorview available I would need two coax cables in each room, or some other means of joining the signals on one cable and splitting them again in each room, and have a combi STB in each room to make the best of things. Each room would then need its own drive for recording and time shift.
In addition the connection points would be fixed to a wall.

My alternative was to run Cat5e to each room, from a central switch connected to the tuner/server.
Each room then has a client device without tuners and a Cat5e connection to use the server tuners and EPG and recording facility.
In addition any device (PC, tablet, phone etc) that can run software can tune into the TV channels (both Sat & Saorview) and also any recording no matter which device instigated the recording, as they are all stored on the server. This can be done wired or wireless!

So the only coax in use in my set up is that coming from the aerial and dish to the server/tuner box.
If I want additional tuners they are added at the server and cabled to there.
From there everything is over LAN.

The unicable cuts down on cables coming from the lmb to the Digibit R1? Rather than having 2 or 4 I'd just need the one cable correct ?

Johnboy1951

Ste- wrote: »

The unicable cuts down on cables coming from the lmb to the Digibit R1? Rather than having 2 or 4 I'd just need the one cable correct ?

Yes indeed ....... was not sure that was what you were referring to

There is a setting in the Telestar to select the LNB type ..... including unicable II.

BTW, if you get a Unicable II LNB with more than 4 tuners then the others can be used with the addition of a splitter on the coax from the LNB.

Ste-

Just coming back to this, I have the digibit but just waiting to get the satellite installed. Will I need all 4 cables from the lnb feed to the digibit or is only one/two needed ?
Most Likely all I'll need is to view one channel and record another.

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

Just coming back to this, I have the digibit but just waiting to get the satellite installed. Will I need all 4 cables from the lnb feed to the digibit or is only one/two needed ?
Most Likely all I'll need is to view one channel and record another.

To be honest .. go for all four ... its not much more expensive and. I started out with two and at some point I was recording 2 shows and watching another .. I ended up getting the quad LNB (cheap) and pulling another two more cables along the same route. Wasn't a big deal as all of mine is in the attic.

In short, you don't need 4, but get 4. A quad LNB is about 20 quid, a twin LNB is about 12 quid. the cabling is not expensive either.

Ste-

So, I have it setup running to the tvheadend server but I am only pulling now/next for the channels in the tvheadend EPG. I have enabled the other grabbers and set priority of those over the EIT one but still only pulling now/next.

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

So, I have it setup running to the tvheadend server but I am only pulling now/next for the channels in the tvheadend EPG. I have enabled the other grabbers and set priority of those over the EIT one but still only pulling now/next.

Here is the check list:

Enable UK: Freesat EPG grabber
Enable OpenTV: SkyUK

then check that you have them set up via cron in the EPG Grabber tab ,,, and click Trigger OTA EPG grabber.... It takes a bit of time the first time you do it, but the nightly cron job means that from then on it is seamless...

Ste-

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Here is the check list:

Enable UK: Freesat EPG grabber
Enable OpenTV: SkyUK

then check that you have them set up via cron in the EPG Grabber tab ,,, and click Trigger OTA EPG grabber.... It takes a bit of time the first time you do it, but the nightly cron job means that from then on it is seamless...

Will this take in the saorview channels that I have running from the same instance of tvheadend ?

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

Will this take in the saorview channels that I have running from the same instance of tvheadend ?

the EIT grabber gets the saorview stuff

Ste-

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

the EIT grabber gets the saorview stuff

Grand, I disabled the EIT and the rest picked up the full EPG, so I guess just re-enable the EIT and drop the priority of it below the two you listed.

Thanks for the help.

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

Grand, I disabled the EIT and the rest picked up the full EPG, so I guess just re-enable the EIT and drop the priority of it below the two you listed.

Thanks for the help.

I have:
EIT at priority 1
SkyUK at 5
Freesat at 6

works perfectly...

Gerry Wicklow

Am I right in thinking the EIT data also helps for live schedule changes if a show runs late?

PabloAndRoy

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Am I right in thinking the EIT data also helps for live schedule changes if a show runs late?

In theory yes ... and that might work with UK shows but as the Freesat EPG has a higher priority that is what tvheadend takes for its EPG data.

I am not sure if RTE or TV3 update the EIT when this happens on Saorview, but I have not notice it happen .. or even if tvheadend will catch the updated information as it seems to just do a cron based pull of the data rather than listen for changes which might be (i am totally guessing here) part of the DVB spec.

You could change the cron job to run every minute, but in that case you would constantly be running an epggrab job as the Freesat/Sky epggrab job runs for about an hour on my Quad LNB set up. You cannot in tvheadend set different cron jobs for different EPG grabber modules.

Gerry Wicklow

I'm not talking specifically about tvheadend. As you rightly say, most grabbers work on a timed basis, once a day or whatever. On my enigma box I have EIT enabled and it does seem to correct timers if BBC, for example, runs late. It's not 100% reliable but it has worked occasionally. Presumably by its now and next nature it is constantly checking the data.

Sorry we're going OT.

Ste-

Does anyone use Bouquets ? if so what one ? I'd like to keep my saorview channels on top if possible. but still have the channels numbered and doing so by hand is taking ages!

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

Does anyone use Bouquets ? if so what one ? I'd like to keep my saorview channels on top if possible. but still have the channels numbered and doing so by hand is taking ages!

I use the freesat bouquet called "England HD: London/London" and I just do a bit of renumbering with the first few entries .. takes 5 minutes..

Ste-

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

I use the freesat bouquet called "England HD: London/London" and I just do a bit of renumbering with the first few entries .. takes 5 minutes..

Excuse my ignorance but does that include SD channels or would I also need the SD variant ?

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but does that include SD channels or would I also need the SD variant ?

It includes the SD channels also ... you might need to disable some of the SD channels as they sometimes appear beside the HD version.. or tag them differently ..

Ste-

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

It includes the SD channels also ... you might need to disable some of the SD channels as they sometimes appear beside the HD version.. or tag them differently ..

I'd like to have the SD appear after the HD in the list so I think this may suit me.

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

I'd like to have the SD appear after the HD in the list so I think this may suit me.

If you are interested in picons, I wrote a simple script that maps all the HD channel picons paths in tvheadend to the actual once that are found on https://www.picons.eu/downloads/ without messing around with git and python.

If you want the script and instructions just let me know,.

However, if you are not running tvheadend server on LibreELEC, then it is probably just as handy to do it using git & python and wrap it all up in a cron job making your picons always up to date.

Ste-

I am running it on unraid with the tvheadend docker while watching on various kodi instances. I'd like to have a look at your script if it I could ?
Tvheadend does list the picons in the docker version I have but they don't display in Kodi, this will be the last piece of my puzzle. Trying to get good streaming & recording profiles setup now.

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

I am running it on unraid with the tvheadend docker while watching on various kodi instances. I'd like to have a look at your script if it I could ?
Tvheadend does list the picons in the docker version I have but they don't display in Kodi, this will be the last piece of my puzzle. Trying to get good streaming & recording profiles setup now.

You have to install the picons yourself, they are not part of tvheadend ... and you need to tell tvheadend where the picons are located Configuration->General->Base .. scroll down to the bottom.

Considering that are running in docker you would be better off using the git / python approach and wrap it all up in a cron job.

have a look here:
https://github.com/picons/picons-source

If you still prefer to do it manually, I will share the script for sure.

Ste-

Just wondering, what kind of profile you have setup to do recordings ?

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

Just wondering, what kind of profile you have setup to do recordings ?

I use the default profile with "pass" as the streaming profile ... I was using the "matriska" streaming profiel as that captures the MHEG subtitles properly, but I found it be unreliable when selecting "watch from start" if i wanted to watch while a recording was currently running.

Ste-

Do you edit out commercials or anything ?
I've been using avidemux but getting differing files errors etc.

Ste-

Do you use picons ?
I have them setup and working via the webui and tvheadend app but can't for the life of me get them working via kodi.

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

Do you use picons ?
I have them setup and working via the webui and tvheadend app but can't for the life of me get them working via kodi.

when you say, via Kodi, you mean the tvheadend PVR client for Kodi?

Work perfectly for me, can't ever remember it being an issue.

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

Do you edit out commercials or anything ?
I've been using avidemux but getting differing files errors etc.

I don't do anything as fancy as that.. I just use fast forward.

/wonders if talking about avoiding the adverts is against this forum's rather zealous rules

/expects a ban for cheek

Ste-

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

when you say, via Kodi, you mean the tvheadend PVR client for Kodi?

Work perfectly for me, can't ever remember it being an issue.

Yeah that's it exactly.

My settings are below, it shows fine via web ui but not via the pvr plugin.

PabloAndRoy

Ste- wrote: »

Yeah that's it exactly.

My settings are below, it shows fine via web ui but not via the pvr plugin.

in Kodi, Settings->PVR/Liv TV->Menu/OSD .. there is a setting for icons folder... that should be blank.

Otherwise in tvheadend config->General->Image Cache->Clean Image Cache
then in Kodi, Settings->PVR/Live TV->General->clear data

if none of that works I have no idea

Ste-

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

in Kodi, Settings->PVR/Liv TV->Menu/OSD .. there is a setting for icons folder... that should be blank.

Otherwise in tvheadend config->General->Image Cache->Clean Image Cache
then in Kodi, Settings->PVR/Live TV->General->clear data

if none of that works I have no idea

Yeah have tried that but still the same.
Cheers anyway.

conway.tv

I Would recommend you use a Free sat branded box for easy use and avoid channels going missing every time Astra decide to do an update. If you have a saorview compatible tv just use the aerial I know it mean using to remote but I find it the easiest option

Ste-

conway.tv wrote: »

I Would recommend you use a Free sat branded box for easy use and avoid channels going missing every time Astra decide to do an update. If you have a saorview compatible tv just use the aerial I know it mean using to remote but I find it the easiest option

This would defeat the purpose of me wanting to put the channels onto each telly/tablet/phone in the house.

Johnboy1951

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

I use the freesat bouquet called "England HD: London/London" and I just do a bit of renumbering with the first few entries .. takes 5 minutes..

Only beginning to use a bouquet here, but wondering if when there is a channel frequency change does it automatically update due to use of the bouquet?

One general question for info sake ...... the 'picon' number seems to be related directly to a channel, regardless the frequency it is transmitted on.
That number does not appear to change.
Is it 'fixed' to a channel regardless the channel frequency?

Gerry Wicklow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

...

One general question for info sake ...... the 'picon' number seems to be related directly to a channel, regardless the frequency it is transmitted on.
That number does not appear to change.
Is it 'fixed' to a channel regardless the channel frequency?

No the TP number is part of the code so it changes if the channel moves.