Plumbing problem- who is responsible?

unreg999

Moved into a new house end of May this year, lovely house but the guys who were in it before left it in a really awful state. There had been a very bad leak from the upstairs bathroom which ruined the kitchen & dining room floors.
Landlady had to put a few quid into it to fix/repair as well as other problems and general tidy up (they really left it in a terrible state!)
She was understandably very upset but took it out on me a few times she has a very short temper & flies off the handle, has has got very irate with me & snapped/cursed/shouted at me over things that were absolutely not my fault.

So, to say I'm just a bit scared of her & prefer not to contact her over anything is an understatement!

Present situation- the water went for the whole town last Saturday morning & was back again Sunday night, however we only have cold mains- no showers, toilets, hot water, washing machine etc
The same thing happened in June except I didn't realise that everyone else had water back until around 5 days!

A friend of mine was able to get it going again that time but hasn't been able to this time.
I contacted LL but she's saying it's IW's responsibility, I already rang them they say no it's only their responsibility to get the mains back on.
It's obviously a problem with the system in this house as everyone else has full water back since Sunday night.

I need a plumber at this stage, who's responsibility is that?

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The_Conductor

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+1

It doesn't matter that the landlord is a firebreeding dragon- she is still responsible for ensuring that you have water.

I would give her an ultimatum- she has 3 days to sort the issue- thereafter you will ring emergency plumbing services- and get them to fix the issue, the cost of which you are going to deduct from the next rent due.

If she demurs at all- inform her that she is in breach of her obligations as a landlord- and if she doesn't accept a) or b) (above) that you are going to take a case to the RTB.

This is a recurrent issue- you have noted it earlier in the summer when you lost water for a couple of days. It is not up to your mate to do an impromptu plumbing job to get you up and running. The property is unfit for human habitation- if it doesn't have running water- this is not a negotiating tactic- it is unfit for human consumption- period.

The landlord needs to sort this- immediately. This whole firebreeding charade to keep you off her back- is moot- you *need* running water- and you *need* it now.

Giving her 2-3 days to sort it- is you doing her a favour- you do not owe her this- by rights she should have an emergency call-out from a plumber immediately this morning- its your call whether you want to give her a day or two- arguably- given her history- its a wasted gesture giving her any leeway.

EmoCourt

unreg999 wrote: »

I need a plumber at this stage, who's responsibility is that?

If i were in your shoes, i'd probably think it's my own responsibility to ensure i can wash. Ring the plumber yourself and take the hit for the repair. Doesn't matter at this stage who should cough up...it's gone past that point.

aido79

EmoCourt wrote: »

If i were in your shoes, i'd probably think it's my own responsibility to ensure i can wash. Ring the plumber yourself and take the hit for the repair. Doesn't matter at this stage who should cough up...it's gone past that point.

Even if the repair involved ripping up floorboards and incurred many hundreds of euros to fix? It may be not but without a plumber coming to look at it the op would be crazy to take on the responsibility for it.

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unreg999

I contacted her & she is adamant that it's Irish Water's fault & their responsibility to fix... Also she doesn't believe that this is the only house affected- basically washing her hands (ironically!) of the problem!

I'm terrified to rock the boat as I'm on the HAP (trap) scheme & fought tooth & nail to get here, also in the house less than 6 months so basically have no rights yet..
There are no other houses in this area & we were homeless for a period before finding it.

Unfortunately this couldn't have come at a worse time, as a single parent who has just paid almost €600 for my daughter going into 3rd year & trying to start my own business my financial health is dire to say the least

1st world problems, yes I know!

unreg999

Um yes it does matter if getting a plumber in means the difference between having showers or food on the table...

Though having said that I was told by a SW officer a few years ago that if you are on SW (I was on One Parent Family Payment) you should only be having 1 shower a week of less than 15 mins & I should cut my long hair! Oh & no baths for my daughter unless we were sharing the water!

pilly

OP it sounds like an airlock, to get you out of a hole do you know anyone who's handy at all? Sometimes it's simply a matter of blowing out the airlock.

It used to happen in my house whenever the water was turned off and this is what I did:

Attached a pipe to the cold water one end and the hot water the other end making sure water can't get out. Run the cold water, it goes up the hot tap and removes the airlock. Sounds mental I know and I don't even know how we figured that out but it used to work. I did it in the upstairs bathroom because the problem was always upstairs.

EmoCourt

aido79 wrote: »

Even if the repair involved ripping up floorboards and incurred many hundreds of euros to fix? It may be not but without a plumber coming to look at it the op would be crazy to take on the responsibility for it.

Pay the plumber for a call out, get a quote for the work to be done, and decide on the course of action after that. There's no indication that it's a major job, so no need to jump to catastrophic conclusions. Yes, the landlady is responsible for repairs, but sitting around without the ability to have a shower is just a joke. OP needs to dip into their own pocket on this occasion and act in the interests of their own well being.

LuckyLloyd

Tell the Land Lady you will arrange for a plumber and deduct the costs from rent and that you'll pass on invoices for the purposes. That's it. It's her responsibility (and she should be organising a plumber herself, so should be grateful you're doing half the job for her).

Delphinium

OP may not be able to afford plumber. Issue is for landlady. You need to tell her you will contact local authority. Not having water is also a health issue so get onto Health authority. She is being well paid for a service she is not providing.

Mrs OBumble

Call Vincent de Paul


They may help you with cashflow, they may know someone who can make the LL see sense.

Also be clear that you do have water. What you don't have is flushing toilets or hot water.

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Wabbit Ears

Its just an airlock, generally easy enough to fix. sometimes just sucking on an open tap clears it.

BUT...heres the killer for you. An airlock like this is caused by using all the water in the tank when the waters off. Nothings broken and its a direct result of your actions, even though you probably didn't know that its very important not to empty the water tank during a water outage.

I 100% would argue its your responsibility to fix.

unreg999

pilly wrote:

Attached a pipe to the cold water one end and the hot water the other end making sure water can't get out. Run the cold water, it goes up the hot tap and removes the airlock. Sounds mental I know and I don't even know how we figured that out but it used to work. I did it in the upstairs bathroom because the problem was always upstairs.

Thank you, will try that!

unreg999

Mrs OBumble wrote:

Also be clear that you do have water. What you don't have is flushing toilets or hot water.

Yes, as I said in my initial post I do have cold mains water in the kitchen but nowater anywhere else- no toilet flushes, showers, hot taps, cold taps, washing machine etc

It's not the end of the world, it was a long way from indoor plumbing I was reared anyway!!

It's not easy carrying buckets of water around with a severe neck injury but it's very do-able, however I would like to get it sorted at some stage in the near future!

unreg999

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No the Local Authority only pay a percentage & I pay the most part but houses in this area are very hard to come by so I really don't want to lose this one or we will probably find ourselves homeless again.
I would be very surprised if they would intercede...

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unreg999

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Hap never pay full rent, they pay a % depending on your incomings, it's not a big amount but I pay most, part directly to the cc & part directly to the ll, almost half of my weekly incomings

unreg999

Wabbit Ears wrote:

BUT...heres the killer for you. An airlock like this is caused by using all the water in the tank when the waters off. Nothings broken and its a direct result of your actions, even though you probably didn't know that its very important not to empty the water tank during a water outage.

I understand what you're saying & it makes sense... Unfortunately I didn't even know the water was out until I was half way through my shower & the water ran out!
I actually thought the shower had broken or the electricity had tripped or something!

unreg999

Actually I'm not sure if that's true, I know for a fact that some of the other houses nearby has also emptied their tanks but didn't have any problems with it coming back on!

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pilly

unreg999 wrote: »

Actually I'm not sure if that's true, I know for a fact that some of the other houses nearby has also emptied their tanks but didn't have any problems with it coming back on!

Yeah it's just a case of bad luck sometimes though. My old house was a pain in the arse for this very reason, always getting airlocks.

Browney7

To the guys saying it's an easy fix do you not think the LL should have no problem calling round to fix it so? Should all tenants have plumbing expertise? Will the landlord agree to waive any damage the unqualified tenant may cause in attempting a repair?

Op, you need to stand up for yourself with this person, assertively and not be meek and timid without being threatening. Tell her in writing or over the phone you don't care who she thinks whose fault it is and that she is not fulfilling her obligations and that you want the situation remedied immediately.

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While I am very much on the ops side in this, he has stated that he is in the first 6 months living in the house and therefore does not have part 4 and can be asked to leave for any reason the LL wishes. If given the correct notice time wise the RTB would have no power to impose any consequences.*

*This is assuming there is no fixed term lease in place or if there is a fixed term lease it doesn't have a break clause that could be enacted.

Wabbit Ears

Op could chase this but its a case of pick your battles.

Most estates/towns have community facebook pages, just ask if theres anyone around who can help fix a airlock. During the recent Northeast mains break several lads were out helping folk in my estate clear these for no money. If there was a local outage you're prob not the only one with an airlock.

unreg999

Esther Disgusting Dart wrote:

*This is assuming there is no fixed term lease in place or if there is a fixed term lease it doesn't have a break clause that could be enacted.

No there is no lease at all & I'm fairly sure I'm not registered with the RTB either... though I have asked for both repeatedly, it won't make much of a difference once I've passed the 6 months (lease-wise anyway)!

I'm not being unassertive but the risk of homelessness is real, especially if you've already experienced it & with a child... Just trying to keep my head down until I'm in the 'safe-zone' at least, I already know how volitile she is!

I have zero plumbing experience by the way!

unreg999

Wabbit Ears wrote:

Op could chase this but its a case of pick your battles.

Wabbit Ears wrote:

Most estates/towns have community facebook pages, just ask if theres anyone around who can help fix a airlock. During the recent Northeast mains break several lads were out helping folk in my estate clear these for no money. If there was a local outage you're prob not the only one with an airlock.

Yeah totally agree, I've asked for some help at this stage...

The only thing that worries me is that there was a major leak problem just before I moved in that cost the her a good bit to repair (the floor in the dining room, kitchen & utility had to be replaced as well as plastering & painting!), I would have thought she'd want to get someone in to look at it properly even just because of that.
She expects me to fix it myself & I really don't have a clue what I'm doing & certainly can't guarantee that anyone who comes in to help won't cause any other problems but at least I have it in writing that I let her know & asked her for a plumber!

Browney7

Miriam Worried Droplet wrote: »

While I am very much on the ops side in this, he has stated that he is in the first 6 months living in the house and therefore does not have part 4 and can be asked to leave for any reason the LL wishes. If given the correct notice time wise the RTB would have no power to impose any consequences.*

*This is assuming there is no fixed term lease in place or if there is a fixed term lease it doesn't have a break clause that could be enacted.

If the LL has borrowings it's likely they have given an undertaking to house the OP for three years to get 100% interest relief - or so says the HAP information leaflet anyways.

Edit - op clarified no lease

pilly

unreg999 wrote: »

Yeah totally agree, I've asked for some help at this stage...

The only thing that worries me is that there was a major leak problem just before I moved in that cost the her a good bit to repair (the floor in the dining room, kitchen & utility had to be replaced as well as plastering & painting!), I would have thought she'd want to get someone in to look at it properly even just because of that.
She expects me to fix it myself & I really don't have a clue what I'm doing & certainly can't guarantee that anyone who comes in to help won't cause any other problems but at least I have it in writing that I let her know & asked her for a plumber!

She's very foolish not to be calling in a plumber then.

pilly

unreg999 wrote: »

No there is no lease at all & I'm fairly sure I'm not registered with the RTB either... though I have asked for both repeatedly, it won't make much of a difference once I've passed the 6 months (lease-wise anyway)!

I'm not being unassertive but the risk of homelessness is real, especially if you've already experienced it & with a child... Just trying to keep my head down until I'm in the 'safe-zone' at least, I already know how volitile she is!

I have zero plumbing experience by the way!

If you're on HAP it has to be registered with the RTB. If you're only recently moved in it maybe just not on their database yet.

Markcheese

Not the answers to responsibility or anything but - Have you cold water in the kitchen? Could someone have turned off the water coming into the house? ( friend checking, whatever) it's usually under the kitchen sink..
. . Same with the main outside just by the meter.. It's an easy check so worth doing..
. . But it does sound like an airlock somewhere

Sorry just reread first post, you have cold mains... You don't need to check that

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carolmon

unreg999 wrote: »

Though having said that I was told by a SW officer a few years ago that if you are on SW (I was on One Parent Family Payment) you should only be having 1 shower a week of less than 15 mins & I should cut my long hair! Oh & no baths for my daughter unless we were sharing the water!

That is absolutely disgraceful, it's like something out of Dickens......what are they on?
So in 2017 people on welfare should be the modern day "great unwashed"
:rolleyes:

I'd ask that officer to put that advice in writing and bring it promptly to the media.

So much for human dignity.

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How will they "hang" the LL? They don't have any power to.

What part of: "the LL can end the tenancy for any reason he/she wishes during the the first 6 months" don't you understand? The RTB have no power whatsoever to do anything to the LL for ending a tenancy during the first 6 months once the correct notice period is served.

Just to note the OP brought this point up long before I mentioned it so they are fully aware that they can be asked to leave in the first 6 months so calling it scaremongering is ridiculous.

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I get stroppy* when people continually ignore or keep missing the point, even if the reason is "because they wanted a plumber" it doesn't matter. The RTB have absolutely no power to do anything to the LL for issuing a legal eviction notice inside the first 6 months. The op does not have part 4.

Your advice is dangerous and could land someone out on the street who is reading it.

*I wasn't even getting stroppy, point out where I was?

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I'm not ignoring your point, I'm trying to make you understand that's its irrelevant.

The op not getting a plumber can be dealt with by the RTB but a subsequent eviction notice will make no difference to any action the RTB take against the LL for failing to get a plumber.

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unreg999

Just to clarify I'm 99% certain I haven't been registered with the RTB though I have asked a number of times. The RTB send you out a letter once you are registered in my previous experience.

She can't avail of the mortgage relief so hasn't applied for it.
Within the first 6 months I can be evicted without reason & with very little notice so I haven't a leg to stand on.

LL continued denying responsibility & texting me 'have you checked the ball cock?' 'have you turned all the taps off & on again?' 'have you contacted IW, they are responsible?'

I had to get someone in this morning to fix it, borrowed the money but you have to flush the toilets & have a proper a shower eventually lol turns out the seals on a lot of the taps are gone & they need replacing, they are letting air & dirt into the system.
It will happen again if the water goes & they aren't replaced, I've let her know but not expecting much

Thank you for all the help & support

unreg999

carolmon wrote:

That is absolutely disgraceful, it's like something out of Dickens......what are they on? So in 2017 people on welfare should be the modern day "great unwashed"

carolmon wrote:

I'd ask that officer to put that advice in writing and bring it promptly to the media.

carolmon wrote:

So much for human dignity.

I know, I was speechless! It was probably around 10 years ago though 🀣🀣

unreg999

pilly wrote:

If you're on HAP it has to be registered with the RTB. If you're only recently moved in it maybe just not on their database yet.

I moved in 3 months ago!

unreg999

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Not the case because she hasn't registered me & even if she had I basically don't have any rights until after 6 months of occupancy!

Cheshire Cat

unreg999 wrote: »

Not the case because she hasn't registered me & even if she had I basically don't have any rights until after 6 months of occupancy!

It doesn't matter if you are registered or not, you can still open a case with the RTB. Your rights are by no means affected.

You could always ask in the Plumbing & Heating subforum how much the replacement of seals would be? Maybe a kind soul on there would be able to help you out.

flaneur

unreg999 wrote: »

Um yes it does matter if getting a plumber in means the difference between having showers or food on the table...

Though having said that I was told by a SW officer a few years ago that if you are on SW (I was on One Parent Family Payment) you should only be having 1 shower a week of less than 15 mins & I should cut my long hair! Oh & no baths for my daughter unless we were sharing the water!

Could you please contact your local TDs regarding that and also the media.
If that was stated it is an absolute disgrace and someone needs to be facing an inquiry and disciplinary action.

The officer has absolutely no business whatsoever issuing “advice” like that!

It’s not in job description.

Browney7

unreg999 wrote: »

Just to clarify I'm 99% certain I haven't been registered with the RTB though I have asked a number of times. The RTB send you out a letter once you are registered in my previous experience.

She can't avail of the mortgage relief so hasn't applied for it.
Within the first 6 months I can be evicted without reason & with very little notice so I haven't a leg to stand on.

LL continued denying responsibility & texting me 'have you checked the ball cock?' 'have you turned all the taps off & on again?' 'have you contacted IW, they are responsible?'

I had to get someone in this morning to fix it, borrowed the money but you have to flush the toilets & have a proper a shower eventually lol turns out the seals on a lot of the taps are gone & they need replacing, they are letting air & dirt into the system.
It will happen again if the water goes & they aren't replaced, I've let her know but not expecting much

Thank you for all the help & support

Keep receipts and follow up with her looking for reimbursement of the fees. That's disgraceful she's abdicating her responsibilities. If you keep paying your rent and she tries to remove you before six months just open a dispute. She will have to register with RTB then anyways. Up to you but I'd be getting as detailed a report as possible from plumber and opening a dispute in three months time. Cite you felt under duress to pay from your own resources to keep a roof over your head.

You don't need to take crap from this woman

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