What ever happened to DAB ?

The Rape of Lucretia

The digital radio transmission that was supposed to be CD quality, and take over from FM, and leading, I think, to an eventual FM switch off ? The next evolution of radio.
Havent heard of it in yonks. Can you still get radios with it, is it still 'coming', or was it a dead end like 3d TV that has already been and gone without going mass market ?

bren2002

Not sure about ireland but i think norway shutdown FM last year.

freshpopcorn

AndyBoBandy

Every time I drive rental cars in the U.K., the radios are always set to DAB,

Quality is excellent

The Rape of Lucretia

freshpopcorn wrote: »

From the Sam Snead guide to learning the discus ?

Howard100

RTE use it for Gold, I don't think you'll ever hear local radio in Ireland on it.

Mint Sauce

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Every time I drive rental cars in the U.K., the radios are always set to DAB,

Quality is excellent

I found the FM quality better in places. On some of the Motorway or A Roads, in the SW of England, I found the DAB signal dropping out. In the built up areas, DAB was defiantly better though.

As for here, cant ever see it taking off. Last I heard (a few years ago), it was only RTE that was transmitting on it, and even then, it was only Dublin, and a few of the other Major Towns/Cities. Cork, Limerick, and one or two others.

Mearings

I bought a cheap DAB/DAB+ radio in Sainsburys when in London recently. I was surprised how improved dab was, especially DAB+ stations eg:
Jazz FM Stereo 32 kbit/s DAB+ Stereo HE-AAC v2 on SDL National.
http://www.wohnort.org/dab/uknat.html#D2

neris

i have a dab radio in the kitchen and never use it. only ever seemd to be able to pick up rte and last time i unplugged it couldnt pick anything up when plugged it back in.

Howard100

Mint Sauce wrote: »

I found the FM quality better in places. On some of the Motorway or A Roads, in the SW of England, I found the DAB signal dropping out. In the built up areas, DAB was defiantly better though.

As for here, cant ever see it taking off. Last I heard (a few years ago), it was only RTE that was transmitting on it, and even then, it was only Dublin, and a few of the other Major Towns/Cities. Cork, Limerick, and one or two others.

D.A.B. has got lots a bad press on the audio quality, it can sound very squashed and unnatural.

LordSutch

I started a thread in January about Newstalk not being on DAB.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102396016

Here is the thread . . . . .

dave4565

The problem is that RTE in there wisdom think people only live in dublin cork and limerick so how could dab work five extra stations only available in three locations public service broadcasting ?? instead of the extra stations most broadcasters would put there NATIONWIDE transmitter network up first with the three main stations the transmitter sites are there but they waste money on five extra stations

L1011

dave4565 wrote: »

The problem is that RTE in there wisdom think people only live in dublin cork and limerick so how could dab work five extra stations only available in three locations public service broadcasting ?? instead of the extra stations most broadcasters would put there NATIONWIDE transmitter network up first with the three main stations the transmitter sites are there but they waste money on five extra stations

The cost of running the extra stations wouldn't pay for a single site build. Few playout computers, unpaid volunteers and staff who are on contract and have to paid anyway until it expires.

dave4565

Why are the unions allowing unpaid staff as for the cost the sites and masts which are the major are there the cost of a DAB transmitter and antennas is not prohibitive rte just do not want to roll out dab until there competition does they did the same when we had the super pirates they had to put on 2fm if we had no pirates we would still have one station

L1011

dave4565 wrote: »

Why are the unions allowing unpaid staff as for the cost the sites and masts which are the major are there the cost of a DAB transmitter and antennas is not prohibitive rte just do not want to roll out dab until there competition does they did the same when we had the super pirates they had to put on 2fm if we had no pirates we would still have one station

The cost of the transmitter, antenna, time clocks, synchronisation etc is vastly higher than you think it is clearly

A national DAB multiplex requires precise synchronisation between transmitters - you don't just slap up a receiver and transmitter you bought from Broadcast Warehouse.

dave4565

I am not that stupid isdn line is all thats needed

L1011

dave4565 wrote: »

I am not that stupid isdn line is all thats needed

It's a bit more than that. Also there's running costs with each site for both data links and power

Shutting down the DAB only stations will not fund even one extra site and it will ensure nobody has any reason to use DAB kit bar a few anoraks. The extra stations are the sole reason for existence

dave4565

Sorry i think you are missing my point it should not be about the cost as the national broadcaster they are meant to provide the same service to all, everyone pays the same amount in licence fees it would be different if it was a test you would only put out your three stations not put on extras it is meant to be a public service broadcaster not a service for the privileged few if it was rolled out properly people would use it as it is its a dead duck

L1011

dave4565 wrote: »

Sorry i think you are missing my point it should not be about the cost as the national broadcaster they are meant to provide the same service to all, everyone pays the same amount in licence fees it would be different if it was a test you would only put out your three stations not put on extras it is meant to be a public service broadcaster not a service for the privileged few if it was rolled out properly people would use it as it is its a dead duck

Your point has changed repeatedly over the course of various threads on DAB.

It is still a trial. It is not simply a technical trial, for which you'd put on existing services (they have 4, not 3). Its a trial of whether a DAB multiplex would be popular enough to justify a full rollout, for which there needs to be a reason to get DAB - the extra services provide that.

You have previously suggested stopping the extra services to fund the rollout - which is ridiculous as it wouldn't release enough funding to do so. Now I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting and I'm not sure you are either.

dave4565

My point has never changed DAB should be all or nothing what part of public service broadcasting do you not understand they are NOT a private company who have the wright to choose who they broadcast to

L1011

dave4565 wrote: »

My point has never changed DAB should be all or nothing what part of public service broadcasting do you not understand they are NOT a private company who have the wright to choose who they broadcast to

You don't understand the requirements of being a public service broadcaster, or a publically owned broadcast for that matter - seeing as TV3 are a private, public service licenced broadcaster for one.

RTE's services are provided nationwide via Saorsat - TV and radio. Everything else is geographically restricted in some manner - FM not very much so, DTT fairly and DAB very. That's the nature of terrestrial broadcasting.

dave4565

there are very few places that need saorsat and its only wright that they are covered in the same way dab should be available in the areas that are covered by saorview which is terrestrial broadcasting who wants to listen to radio on the tv its a very limited audience radio is meant to be portable most new cars now have dab

BandMember

I have a DAB, but never listen to it as it's the biggest waste of time ever!

Very few stations, coverage is limited and it's very hard to see the point of it all.

Why would anyone bother with a few select stations when you can get every radio station in the world on your laptop/phone/smart tv/android devices/pretty much any device that will connect to the internet???

Mc Love

I lose DAB in the multistory car park but dont lose FM - the sound quality is better but reception not so much

end of the road

dave4565 wrote: »

The problem is that RTE in there wisdom think people only live in dublin cork and limerick so how could dab work five extra stations only available in three locations public service broadcasting ??

no the problem is that rte don't have the funding to extend dab any further. the plan was to extend it eventually, but they cannot afford to do it as the money isn't there for it.

dave4565 wrote: »

instead of the extra stations most broadcasters would put there NATIONWIDE transmitter network up first with the three main stations the transmitter sites are there but they waste money on five extra stations

rte's main stations are on dab also. they have to "waste" money as you put it on 5 more stations to attract people to the platform, people aren't going to bother with the platform without the content.

Ursus Horribilis

If you look at when they started rolling DAB out in Ireland, you'll see it roughly coincided with the economy imploding/the recession. RTE is now in a bad way financially and my guess is that DAB is not a priority. In order for it to work, it'd need to have a lot more coverage nationwide than it does. And it'd need to have more stations available on it. It's probably not worth the while of the smaller stations to spend money on joining a platform which has such a limited audience. It's arguable whether DAB in Ireland was ever going to give us the choice of radio stations they have in the UK. The market here is much smaller.

dxhound2005

Whatever happened to this thread?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=125569&page=132

dave4565

end of the road wrote: »

no the problem is that rte don't have the funding to extend dab any further. the plan was to extend it eventually, but they cannot afford to do it as the money isn't there for it.



rte's main stations are on dab also. they have to "waste" money as you put it on 5 more stations to attract people to the platform, people aren't going to bother with the platform without the content.

how can people be bothered with DAB if they can not receive DAB that is the point to transmit to areas that have other means of getting digital radio ie online when knowing that most parts of the country have no broadband what are they thinking this is going around in circles licence payers money is meant to serve all

Ursus Horribilis

Is there any chance you could break up your sentences with some punctuation? It's hard to know what points you're making when we're being given these long, breathless streams of consciousness.

end of the road

dave4565 wrote: »

how can people be bothered with DAB if they can not receive DAB that is the point to transmit to areas that have other means of getting digital radio ie online when knowing that most parts of the country have no broadband what are they thinking this is going around in circles licence payers money is meant to serve all

you are the one bringing it around in circles by ignoring the facts as given to you plenty of times all ready.
rte's plan was to roll out dab to us all, the money ran out to do that. the dab infrastructure is in place now in dublin cork and the other couple of areas, so it has to be used.
no amount of ranting about licence fees and licence fee payers will change the facts and the reality, the money isn't there to bring dab to the whole country.

Ursus Horribilis

I suspect that for many people, it's not going to make any difference to their lives whether they can pick up DAB on their radios or not. When RTE switched over to digital, there was an obvious gain for the people who were picking up the Irish terrestrial stations from their aerials. They got a better picture quality and sound, plus a few extra channels. DAB is a harder sell, especially for people who are happy with the FM radio stations they're listening to on a daily basis.

DAB is what I consider to be "nice to have" rather than crucial. In an ideal world, our taxpayers money would be giving us a better health service, nationwide broadband etc. Unfortunately there is only so much money to go around and the decision makes have to cut their cloth accordingly.

LordSutch

Is Britain the only country on Europe to embrace DAB? also ... what about Northern Ireland, have they also gone DAB, or are they sticking with FM radio?

Curious.

Ursus Horribilis

Seems to be quite the mixed bag

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_using_DAB/DMB

dave4565

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Is there any chance you could break up your sentences with some punctuation? It's hard to know what points you're making when we're being given these long, breathless streams of consciousness.

There is no need to be nasty or personal, i am sorry if you have a reading problem. i did not know i was doing an exam :rolleyes:

Ursus Horribilis

You might not be doing an exam but you are writing text for other people to read. Posting these long sentences where you throw everything bar the kitchen sink into them is doing you no favours.

johnny_adidas

Can receive DAB in my UK Mondeo. Much prefer the sound quality but only receive the Rte channels when in Cork or Dublin.
Just back from the North and they have a large selection of DAB stations available which become available shortly after passing over the border

PAKNET

Is there any motivating circumstances for us to move to DAB entirely and replace FM?

We did it for TV because it offered vastly improved efficiency meaning we could carry our four terrestrial "channels" in digital format at equivalent quality in the space previously occupied by just one. And we could then offer additional services in the existing space and auction off the rest of the spectrum to LTE, etc.

The same is not necessarily true for DAB.
Clearing FM totally frees up just 20MHz of bandwidth - about enough to fit a single 4G+ carrier into.

A DAB mux is about 1.5MHz spectral bandwidth and gives about 1Mb of usable audio bandwidth if you're to look at the UK configuration.
To get near-equivalent audio quality on DAB you need to run at 256Kbps MP2 which gives just 4 stations in a mux.
Yet in the same 1.5MHz of spectrum you could fit 5 x FM stations, uncompressed, with full 15kHz of stereo audio.

So what happens, as in the UK, you get stations crammed into a mux, at extremely low quality, low bitrate and broadcasting in mono.

That, to me anyway, is not progress!

end of the road

ireland would be unlikely to use standard mp2 dab if it was to roll out dab services, but dab+ which can offer better quality then standard dab ever could.

Einstein A. Gogo

Nobody in the industry wants it because it would facilitate a raft of new competition that they don't want.

SimonMaher

PAKNET wrote: »

Is there any motivating circumstances for us to move to DAB entirely and replace FM?

We did it for TV because it offered vastly improved efficiency meaning we could carry our four terrestrial "channels" in digital format at equivalent quality in the space previously occupied by just one. And we could then offer additional services in the existing space and auction off the rest of the spectrum to LTE, etc.

The same is not necessarily true for DAB.
Clearing FM totally frees up just 20MHz of bandwidth - about enough to fit a single 4G+ carrier into.

A DAB mux is about 1.5MHz spectral bandwidth and gives about 1Mb of usable audio bandwidth if you're to look at the UK configuration.
To get near-equivalent audio quality on DAB you need to run at 256Kbps MP2 which gives just 4 stations in a mux.
Yet in the same 1.5MHz of spectrum you could fit 5 x FM stations, uncompressed, with full 15kHz of stereo audio.

So what happens, as in the UK, you get stations crammed into a mux, at extremely low quality, low bitrate and broadcasting in mono.

That, to me anyway, is not progress!

I don't believe that even exponents of DAB in Ireland (of which I am one) would see DAB as a replacement for FM but moreso as an additional platform. It has the potential, as in other countries, to be a good complimentary platform allowing newer services as well as split-off services for current FM broadcasters. Obviously the model has to be right for it to succeed (regulatory and business) but it is at least being looked at now.

Many people suggest that its time has passed with the advent of Streaming media and while it has had an impact, there will always be an advantage (for both broadcaster and receiver) in terristrially broadcast signals i.e. once the transmission cost is paid, then the number of listeners doesn't effect costbase or availability.

Einstein A Goo Goo makes a good point in the post above but as I've said, at least it's being examined now. Time will tell what comes of it.

Simon
8Radio.com

Mearings

If DAB is ever rolled out it will be MPEG-4 High Efficiency AAC v2 profile (HE-AAC v2) audio codec (DAB+). Unfortunately many radios on sale are not future proof.
Watch out for the tick mark.

http://www.getdigitalradio.com/industry/what-is-the-tick-mark/

LordSutch

I like DAB radio.

Just waking up to my Roberts Gemini 29 on Lyric:

One touch = 'Time/day/date, then Stereo/signal k260Kbps, then = presenter/programme/track name/artist, then Program type, then = DAB Ireland MUX 1, then = Signal strength ...... back to time & date.

Lots of extra info there compared to FM.

Changing station now > to RTE Gold.

MarkR

Coverage seems to be very patchy. Can get it around Limerick, not around Shannon.

Basal

The reality of it is Ireland is just too small to sustain new radio stations on dab. Look at saorview, 5 years on and nothing on it but rte & 3 tv3 stations

SimonMaher

Basal wrote: »

The reality of it is Ireland is just too small to sustain new radio stations on dab. Look at saorview, 5 years on and nothing on it but rte & 3 tv3 stations

I don't believe that to be true. What do you base this assertion on? Small scale DAB minimuxes are being rolled out in the UK in population centres of only 50k and even less. If the costs are kept down, then there's no reason why DAB can't operate well here.

As for Saorview, the pricing model doesn't compare given the size of the network and its cost of operation.

Simon
8Radio.com

Einstein A. Gogo

Basal wrote:

The reality of it is Ireland is just too small to sustain new radio stations on dab. Look at saorview, 5 years on and nothing on it but rte & 3 tv3 stations

There's no extra channels on Saorview because RTE wants it so. Remember the battle UTV Ireland had to get on it?

SPDUB

Einstein A. Gogo wrote: »

There's no extra channels on Saorview because RTE wants it so. Remember the battle UTV Ireland had to get on it?

Well you apparently don't given the battle against it being on Saorview was by TV3

L1011

Einstein A. Gogo wrote: »

There's no extra channels on Saorview because RTE wants it so. Remember the battle UTV Ireland had to get on it?

RTE would be delighted for more channels as it would reduce the % of the costs they have to pay.

It was UTV Ireland's now owners who wanted to stop it.

Del2005

LordSutch wrote: »

I like DAB radio.

Just waking up to my Roberts Gemini 29 on Lyric:

One touch = 'Time/day/date, then Stereo/signal k260Kbps, then = presenter/programme/track name/artist, then Program type, then = DAB Ireland MUX 1, then = Signal strength ...... back to time & date.

Lots of extra info there compared to FM.

Changing station now > to RTE Gold.

FM can transmit most of that information. When I was in Oregon one of the FM stations used to broadcast song names and other information.

L1011

Del2005 wrote: »

FM can transmit most of that information. When I was in Oregon one of the FM stations used to broadcast song names and other information.

Stations in Ireland do it also. Its just that most people don't have receivers with appropriate support.

Dr Brown

DAB is not even MP3 quality.

Now that everyone has the internet on their phone I think DAB is obsolete.