Whats the solution to cycle lanes being blocked?

Muahahaha

So I pass through Ranelagh pretty often in rush hour, sometimes on bicycle, other times on a motorbike. Lately I have been counting the amount of blockages in the cycle lanes. Yesterday was a record, in the village (say from junction of Road to past the Luas Station I counted no less than 9 vehicles in the morning and on the way back I counted 12. All just sitting there and forcing cyclists out onto the main road where it is already pretty narrow. IMO it is really selfish of these drivers to put other people in danger like that and I know when I am on either the motorbike or bicycle I have to be extra careful when vehicles park in the cycle lanes for whatever reason.

However we can moan about it all day but really what is the solution? On my way home most offenders are the "I only popped into the shop for one minute" brigade and it is obvious that enforcement by the Gardai and fines issued etc would quickly solve that problem.

But what of taxi drivers and delivery drivers? Taxis are allowed to ply for hire on the side of streets and when they have a situation where cycle lanes are running for several kilometers what exactly are they supposed to do? If they just stop without pulling in they then create a hazard between the passenger and cyclists and even more so if they just stopped on a road and allowed a passengers to swing a door into a cycle lane.

Delivery drivers are another one. It is very frustrating to see a huge delivery van blocking a cycle lane but they also have a job to do. I know some cities only allow deliveries at specific times but would this be practible in Dublin? I would imagine if shops were only allowed to accept deliveries from 5-7am there would be uproar amongst the likes of IBEC, retailers & transporters who would say the price of doing business would go up as a result.

So what do people think would be the actual solutions to the above problems?

smacl

Maybe we could encourage CI to get one of these and take it on patrol up and down the cities cycle lanes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD6qdzQvHhE

CantGetNoSleep

Where I live, there is one bike lane that is blocked by delivery drivers almost every morning. If it is a big brand, I take a photo and post it to one of their social media pages asking why they hate cyclists. Having to go around it puts me in a dodgy situation as it is where a two lane road just joins a third lane for a turn. It works to some extent, one big drinks company in particular now blocks a lane of traffic but leaves the bike lane free.

Wishbone Ash

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Where I live, there is one bike lane that is blocked by delivery drivers almost every morning. If it is a big brand, I take a photo and post it to one of their social media pages asking why they hate cyclists. Having to go around it puts me in a dodgy situation as it is where a two lane road just joins a third lane for a turn. It works to some extent, one big drinks company in particular now blocks a lane of traffic but leaves the bike lane free.

If you take a look at the Road Traffic Regulations, they're perfectly entitled to park in a cycle track to make deliveries or to load (for a limited time) where no loading bay is available.

If you are see this 'almost every morning', you should be expecting it and take up an appropriate position in good time and use a bit of assertiveness.

Asking a 'big brand' why they hate cyclists is a bit naive IMO and does the rest of us a disservice. What would you suggest the driver do?

ED E

Taxis aren't allowed in cycle lanes nor double yellows, only single yellows. Goods vehicles have 30min to unload, not sit there.

In the areas you describe most of them are also clearways so nobody can block them, no just for five minutes bs, its a very clear offence.



DCC wipe their hands of it as AGS are mutually responsible. AGS use discretion thanks to institutional ineptitude. The few parking wardens we have only enforce paid for spaces. The towing trucks wait 24hrs before offending and don't operate at rush hour.

The solution is traffic wardens a la Toronto PEO that *solely* penalize parking offences not related to failing to top up the meter. That or legislate out Garda discretion so we can pull any member that walks past up with the Ombudsman.

ED E

PS you can join https://twitter.com/IBIKEDublin?

MysticMonk

I use the finglas to city centre cycle lanes most mornings and I see more than my share of cyclists in the road,ignoring the lane. It seems a blocked lane is only another excuse to moan

magicbastarder

do you mean the stretch down past clearwater?

hytrogen

Muahahaha wrote:

So what do people think would be the actual solutions to the above problems?

Simple, Off street parking.
Build that multistory carpark promised years ago over that hipster wasteland they call a Street market behind SuperValu. About ten stories up and down will do with room to expand vertically. Cheap rates like Dundrum, no more than 2Euro for a half day. And a good few bike racks and motorbike stations too. All ecar charging points.
Ground floor is free for 15mins after that they get towed.
Put the "Street market" on the rooftop terrace and a few apartments to the southern side of this glorious solution.

Billgirlylegs

Check Road Traffic Act/ SI.
What type of cycle lane is it - is it one of those daft "lines on the path" or is it marked similar to other traffic lanes on the road.
Is it bordered by a solid line or broken?
If it is a busy "pedestrian / shopping " area, are there any No Parking / Parking times signs or notices.
Presumably if parking is prohibited, there are double yellow lines.

Regrettably there are people who feel / think cycle lanes are protected by force fields for no use other than by cyclists.
They are misinformed. Cycle lanes are part of the road and subject to and catered for by legislation. That is usually pretty clear on the subject, although it might take time to find the information that answers your specific question.

Related issue - does the Road Traffic Act / SI specifically state that Motorbikes can use cycle lanes?

MysticMonk

magicbastarder wrote: »

do you mean the stretch down past clearwater?

No,usually the bit past the cemetry up to prospect road...tour de france wannabes flying along the road rather than use the cycle path.

Pinch Flat

I had a guy in a Jag block the cycle lane in St. Stephen's Green this morning - 3 empty spaces w,hci he couldn't be ar$ed to use. It's infuriating.

I took up an issue with DCC / Gardai about persistent blocking opposite Loretto school a while ago - during school times triple parking is not unusual - one in the car parking space, one in the cycle lane and another car outside that again. It's madness. I witnessed a girl being clipped by a car, who drove off, and this spurned me on.

The reply back from the Gardai was that it's too difficult to enforce. Surely a gaggle of tickets, followed up periodically, would focus people? but until we have enforcement this issue will continue unpunished. Irish drivers are a selfish and lazy lot unfortunately and inconveniencing or endangering cyclists wouldn't even enter their head when parking on a cycle lane.

hytrogen

Pinch Flat wrote:

I had a guy in a Jag block the cycle lane in St. Stephen's Green this morning - 3 empty spaces w,hci he couldn't be ar$ed to use. It's infuriating.

You do realise he can fit to bodies in the boot right?

MysticMonk

Weepsie wrote: »

The really awful lane that ends of on the road anyway, forces you to give up right of way several times, always has pedestrians in it, forces you to slow down frequently going by the cemetery, and is badly surfaced? It's a terrible cycle lane.

Yes,it's called travelling with due care and attention.

I don't understand the need to hurtle everywhere at breakneck speed when there are pedestrians and other hazards around.

It seems to me that a large number of cyclists hate to use their brakes for any reason whatsoever...having "right of way" doesnt mean sole ownership of the highways..

07Lapierre

Lots and Lots of these:

https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1WD0jLFXXXXbCXVXXq6xXFXXXT/222622128/HTB1WD0jLFXXXXbCXVXXq6xXFXXXT.jpg

JayRoc

To be honest (and I know this is heresy to a lot of us) I don't really get bent out of shape by this issue. In places like Ranelagh, Westland Row, etc where it happens constantly I just tend to stay on the road rather than weave in and out of the cycle lane.

No biggie.

Tbh I am of the opinion that a lot of the time, the road is the best place for us anyway.

Chips Lovell

MysticMonk wrote: »

I use the finglas to city centre cycle lanes most mornings and I see more than my share of cyclists in the road,ignoring the lane.

Cycle lanes are optional. You're not obliged to use them.

magicbastarder

those cyclists *are* using cycle lanes. the lane past the cemetery is a combined bus/cycle lane.

i'm assuming MysticMonk is using the cycle path, and is complaining about the cyclists who use the bus lane - which is visibly marked as a bus/cycle lane.

Tenzor07

MysticMonk wrote: »

Yes,it's called travelling with due care and attention.

I don't understand the need to hurtle everywhere at breakneck speed when there are pedestrians and other hazards around.

It seems to me that a large number of Motorists hate to use their brakes for any reason whatsoever...having "right of way" doesn't mean sole ownership of the highways..

Can't single out bicyclists!

07Lapierre

MysticMonk wrote: »

Yes,it's called travelling with due care and attention.

I don't understand the need to hurtle everywhere at breakneck speed when there are pedestrians and other hazards around.

It seems to me that a large number of cyclists hate to use their brakes for any reason whatsoever...having "right of way" doesnt mean sole ownership of the highways..

Breakneck speed? are you referring to Motorists?

As for Brakes...I only use them when I want/need to slow down.

dhaughton99

Some of those really hard to remove stickers that the clampers use. Maybe small ones with a message that can be stuck on the offenders mirror.

ThisRegard

MysticMonk wrote: »

No,usually the bit past the cemetry up to prospect road...tour de france wannabes flying along the road rather than use the cycle path.

If they're going as fast as you say imply they are aren't they better on the road?

MysticMonk

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Can't single out bicyclists!

07Lapierre wrote: »

Breakneck speed? are you referring to Motorists?

.

Back to the default response of deflecting by blaming motorists...i never mentioned motorists or people in cars.

This forum will never brook any kind of critcism of cyclists or their behaviour as long as there's other road users to blame.

And it seems to me the moderators are the ones who lead the deflection.

Hardly objective now is it?

MysticMonk

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Cycle lanes are optional. You're not obliged to use them.

Well then why moan when they're blocked?

magicbastarder

you are complaining about cyclists using lanes which are explicitly marked for the use of cyclists, as far as i can see.
what case have those cyclists to answer?

07Lapierre

MysticMonk wrote: »

Back to the default response of deflecting by blaming motorists...i never mentioned motorists or people in cars.

This forum will never brook any kind of critcism of cyclists or their behaviour as long as there's other road users to blame.

And it seems to me the moderators are the ones who lead the deflection.

Hardly objective now is it?

Wrong! There has been and is lots of comments about bad cycling on this forum.

This doesn't change the fact that you didn't know (or choose to ignore) the fact that cyclists are not obliged to use cycle paths.

magicbastarder

FWIW, this is something dublin cycling campaign have been addressing with dublin city council - adding bike symbols to bus lanes as many people forget that a typical bus lane is a combined bus/cycle lane.

Chips Lovell

MysticMonk wrote: »

Well then why moan when they're blocked?

Well I'm not moaning for a start.

But some people prefer to use cycle lanes and some people prefer to cycle on the road. And they're perfectly entitled to do either.

Wishbone Ash

MysticMonk wrote: »

Well then why moan when they're blocked?

I'm not moaning - I rarely use them especially that awful one in Finglas.

Tenzor07

MysticMonk wrote: »

Back to the default response of deflecting by blaming motorists...i never mentioned motorists or people in cars.
This forum will never brook any kind of critcism of cyclists or their behaviour as long as there's other road users to blame.
And it seems to me the moderators are the ones who lead the deflection.
Hardly objective now is it?

Not deflecting, merely pointing out unfair criticism!

Beta Ray Bill

Interesting post OP

Most people post giving out about stuff like that, however few actually offer solutions.

Muahahaha wrote: »

However we can moan about it all day but really what is the solution? On my way home most offenders are the "I only popped into the shop for one minute" brigade and it is obvious that enforcement by the Gardai and fines issued etc would quickly solve that problem.

I don't think this would work, as there will ALWAYS be people doing this, I'd say it's very rarely repeat offenders.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Taxis are allowed to ply for hire on the side of streets and when they have a situation where cycle lanes are running for several kilometers what exactly are they supposed to do? If they just stop without pulling in they then create a hazard between the passenger and cyclists and even more so if they just stopped on a road and allowed a passengers to swing a door into a cycle lane.

That's a tricky one too, I don't think there is anything that can be done about Taxi's. They'll pull in anywhere as soon as they see a hand go out.
If they don't do that, there is chance they'll lose the fare and hence money.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Delivery drivers are another one. It is very frustrating to see a huge delivery van blocking a cycle lane but they also have a job to do.

I've said for years now that deliveries around the city centre should only be made between 9pm and 6am. The amount of traffic it would take off the road during rush hour would be huge.

Muahahaha wrote: »

So what do people think would be the actual solutions to the above problems?

Ultimately the problem is going to get worse. Dublin City council have managed to make an absolute balls of traffic planning around Dublin City in the last few years:
Coast road reduced to 2 lanes of traffic, no bus lane.
Can't turn right off Samuel Beckett Bridge, and cant turn left onto it.
East link toll bridge, still a "Toll" bridge.
O'Connell Street messing this weekend.
Quays reduced to one lane for cars.
The list goes on and on.

And when questioned about it they encourage people to use Public Transport (Not Cycle btw!)
What people in DCC don't get is that people in Dublin like using their cars, they don't like public transport.
It's been seen time and time again that people are prepared to sit in their cars for hours so long as it means they don't have to use Public transport.

So as long as the above stupidity from DCC continues the problems you mention above for cyclists is going to get worse and worse.

Harrybelafonte

Get rid of them. End segregation now! Raises fist to the sky!

Chips Lovell

grahambo wrote: »

And when questioned about it they encourage people to use Public Transport (Not Cycle btw!)
What people in DCC don't get is that people in Dublin like using their cars, they don't like public transport.
It's been seen time and time again that people are prepared to sit in their cars for hours so long as it means they don't have to use Public transport.

Except that's not really born out by the figures. Number of people driving into town is dropping while number of buses, cyclists and pedestrians is increasing.

I think DCC knows people like driving, it's more a case of realising that we're running out of capacity for cars so need to encourage a more efficient way of getting workers in and out of city.

tomasrojo

grahambo wrote: »

And when questioned about it they encourage people to use Public Transport (Not Cycle btw!)
What people in DCC don't get is that people in Dublin like using their cars, they don't like public transport.

There are more people arriving in Dublin city centre on public transport (50% modal split) than in cars (37% modal split). In particular, on the north quays there are about ten times as many people in buses as in cars, and there are more cyclists than people in cars.

magicbastarder

worth pointing out that the quays being reduced to one lane for cars is largely a reaction to the fact that the luas is going to reduce carrying capacity for the quays anyway, as the luas will be crossing every three minutes.

plus, when you've a scarce resource (space on the quays), it's bleedin' idiotic not to prioritise the most efficient use of that resource.

Pinch Flat

magicbastarder wrote: »

worth pointing out that the quays being reduced to one lane for cars is largely a reaction to the fact that the luas is going to reduce carrying capacity for the quays anyway, as the luas will be crossing every three minutes.

plus, when you've a scarce resource (space on the quays), it's bleedin' idiotic not to prioritise the most efficient use of that resource.

I hear you. But there's a lot of people that insist in driving from the end of their driveway to their place of work - ideally, to their own desk if they could get away with it. A lot of people haven't joined the dots that Dublin is making no new provision for private cars and, instead, eating into the space they occupy to avail of more efficient transport means i.e. buses and luas.

It's going to be painful for the solo car commuter for the coming years until eventually they find alternative means to get to work.

C3PO

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you take a look at the Road Traffic Regulations, they're perfectly entitled to park in a cycle track to make deliveries or to load (for a limited time) where no loading bay is available.

If you are see this 'almost every morning', you should be expecting it and take up an appropriate position in good time and use a bit of assertiveness.

Asking a 'big brand' why they hate cyclists is a bit naive IMO and does the rest of us a disservice. What would you suggest the driver do?

Hmm .. wasn't aware of that! Better stop yelling abuse at the guy who delivers to the Chinese opposite Blackrock College at about 4.15pm everyday so!!

tomasrojo

It's not a lot of fun being a public-facing member of DCC, I get the impression.

Chips Lovell

tomasrojo wrote: »

It's not a lot of fun being a public-facing member of DCC, I get the impression.

My favourite DCC story involves a drainage engineer who fielded a call from a member of the public complaining about blocked drains in her house. Frustrated, he eventually asked her if she'd tried calling the guards. "No, why would I call them?" was her reply. "Because they've about as much to do with it as we do".

Beta Ray Bill

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Except that's not really born out by the figures. Number of people driving into town is dropping while number of buses, cyclists and pedestrians is increasing.

I think DCC knows people like driving, it's more a case of realising that we're running out of capacity for cars so need to encourage a more efficient way of getting workers in and out of city.

I agree with those figures quoted, but the traffic is getting worse.

We used to be able to get into town for 8am if we left at 7:30am
Now if we don't leave by 7am, we may forget it.

I use a bicycle and user a motorbike and I can say for sure over the last 4/5 years the traffic is getting worse and worse.

My Ex would never ever use public transport or cycle, it's a concept so foreign to her that she could never accept it.

The other problem is that it's expensive to use Public transport if you have somewhere else to go rather than work
IE dropping off/collecting kids
Public transport just inst an option, to expensive.

Chips Lovell

Traffic is heavier alright, which is the reason more and more people aren't driving.

There's a lot more efficiencies to be found I think. While I accept that there's some people who have no alternative but to drive, going by census data there's still a lot of car journeys being undertaken when there are realistic alternatives, e.g. children being driven to school when the school is within walking distance.

magicbastarder

grahambo wrote: »

I use a bicycle and user a motorbike and I can say for sure over the last 4/5 years the traffic is getting worse and worse.

i don't think there's any argument there. employment figures are up. there are more people trying to get to work.

tomasrojo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Traffic is heavier alright, which is the reason more and more people aren't driving.

"No-one goes to that club anymore. It's too crowded."

Tenzor07

Solution is that Gardai are out on bikes, or foot ticketing motorists for parking in cycle lanes...

As you can see one car driver decides to stop and look at his phone and 20+ cyclists have to push out into the main traffic lane because of one person!

AndrewJRenko

MysticMonk wrote: »

I don't understand the need to hurtle everywhere at breakneck speed when there are pedestrians and other hazards around.

And yet, when they ride on the road, the place least likely to have pedestrians and other hazards around, you complain about that too?

Shouldn't all those drivers be on the M1 anyway? I mean, we build all these motorways and they won't bloody use them!

CatFromHue

I'm fairly live and let live on this.

It can be annoying but when I'm walking on the path I have to sometimes step on the road to get around obstacles, when I'm driving I sometimes have to go into the other lane/side to get around an obstacle and I don't see why it shouldn't be the same when cycling in a cycle lane.

It's all about how you adapt to obstacles when out on the road.

Slow down, look over you shoulder to make sure it's safe, and then go around it.

uck51js9zml2yt

Was cycling up O'Connell Street yesterday and had a motorist beeping me and refusing to use the other empty lane.
Kept telling me to use the cycle lane that was jammed with cyclists.

Beta Ray Bill

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Solution is that Gardai are out on bikes, or foot ticketing motorists for parking in cycle lanes...

As you can see one car driver decides to stop and look at his phone and 20+ cyclists have to push out into the main traffic lane because of one person!

I get what you are saying but at the same time, I'd rather them pull over and look at their phone rather than keep driving and look at it.

People need to be able to pull over. Clearly looking at a phone might not be that important.

There will always obstacles on the raod, ya just need to be ready for them I suppose.
Yeah it's a pain in the hole, but that city driving/riding/cycling for ya.

Tenzor07

grahambo wrote: »

I get what you are saying but at the same time, I'd rather them pull over and look at their phone rather than keep driving and look at it.
People need to be able to pull over. Clearly looking at a phone might not be that important.
There will always obstacles on the raod, ya just need to be ready for them I suppose.
Yeah it's a pain in the hole, but that city driving/riding/cycling for ya.

Yes of course, though pull over into a parking space which doesn't cause an obstruction or a hazard to other road users, and is also illegal to block a cycle lane...

cdaly_

grahambo wrote: »

I get what you are saying but at the same time, I'd rather them pull over and look at their phone rather than keep driving and look at it.

People need to be able to pull over. Clearly looking at a phone might not be that important.

There will always obstacles on the raod, ya just need to be ready for them I suppose.
Yeah it's a pain in the hole, but that city driving/riding/cycling for ya.

So, if they're going to stop and obstruct traffic to look at their phone, why not stop in their own lane? Why take the opportunity to put a whole other lane of traffic to inconvenience/danger?

AndrewJRenko

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm fairly live and let live on this.

It can be annoying but when I'm walking on the path I have to sometimes step on the road to get around obstacles, when I'm driving I sometimes have to go into the other lane/side to get around an obstacle and I don't see why it shouldn't be the same when cycling in a cycle lane.

It's all about how you adapt to obstacles when out on the road.

Slow down, look over you shoulder to make sure it's safe, and then go around it.

So I presume you'll have no problem if all those cars and vans just stop in the driving lane instead of the cycling lane. They'll only be a few minutes, I promise. You can just get around them - no biggie, right?