Tag on luas for yearly leap card

thunderdog

A quick query. I have a tax saver annual leap card for bus and luas. I use the bus everyday for which I "tag on" for each bus journey.

I don't use the luas too often. Am I still required to tag on the luas if I am in possession of a yearly tax saver leap card or can I just hop straight on?

LXFlyer

thunderdog wrote: »

A quick query. I have a tax saver annual leap card for bus and luas. I use the bus everyday for which I "tag on" for each bus journey.

I don't use the luas too often. Am I still required to tag on the luas if I am in possession of a yearly tax saver leap card or can I just hop straight on?

You should tag on before each journey on the LUAS also.


You are supposed to also tag off from the LUAS as well, in order to give some usage statistics.

LeChienMefiant

One of the major benefits of the yearly Luas card is not having to tag on/off. I use Luas daily and am regularly checked by ticket inspectors. They do ask that you tag on/off once in a blue moon for some reason, it makes their job easier if the card has been validated in recent months somehow. They don't ask that you do this every journey, presumably as this is not practical. They would have a hard time convincing a judge that they were justified in fining you for not supporting participating in their Management Information (Reporting). There are other ways of collecting usage statistics.

LXFlyer

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

One of the major benefits of the yearly Luas card is not having to tag on/off. I use Luas daily and am regularly checked by ticket inspectors. They do ask that you tag on/off once in a blue moon for some reason, it makes their job easier if the card has been validated in recent months somehow. They don't ask that you do this every journey, presumably as this is not practical. They would have a hard time convincing a judge that they were justified in fining you for not supporting participating in their Management Information (Reporting). There are other ways of collecting usage statistics.

How is it not practical to tag on/off? That's baloney.

Is it really that hard to do?

You are actually obliged to do so under the terms and conditions of your ticket.

LeChienMefiant

LXFlyer wrote: »

How is it not practical to tag on/off? That's baloney.


Is it really that hard to do?


You are actually obliged to do so under the terms and conditions of your ticket.

Because there is a queue to tag on/off. Or the validator is not in the direction of where I am going. Or the Luas is about to pull away. Simples.

Sue me.

Dravokivich

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

One of the major benefits of the yearly Luas card is not having to tag on/off. I use Luas daily and am regularly checked by ticket inspectors. They do ask that you tag on/off once in a blue moon for some reason, it makes their job easier if the card has been validated in recent months somehow. They don't ask that you do this every journey, presumably as this is not practical. They would have a hard time convincing a judge that they were justified in fining you for not supporting participating in their Management Information (Reporting). There are other ways of collecting usage statistics.

It's that if/when required, the card can receive an update. Your Leap Card is not the ticket. There is a ticket on your card, if that expires without being updated, you will be travelling without the appropriate ticket.

LeChienMefiant

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's that if/when required, the card can receive an update. Your Leap Card is not the ticket. There is a ticket on your card, if that expires without being updated, you will be travelling without the appropriate ticket.

Does it expire on the expiry date or do Luas invalidate the ticket somehow? I do know my expiry date and can see it on my phone with Leap app.

LXFlyer

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Because there is a queue to tag on/off. Or the validator is not in the direction of where I am going. Or the Luas is about to pull away. Simples.

Sue me.

That's frankly a list of excuses for just not doing what you're supposed to do.

Ashbx

In LeChienMefiant's defence, when I got my tax saver ticket not one person told me nor did it say anywhere on the ticket or their website that you need to tag on. It was only because I asked the inspector one day and he said to me "technically no you don't need to tag on but in terms of Luas getting information on number of commuters, its better if people tag on".

I tag on but never tag off. There's no point queuing to tag off or search my bag for my leap card when I don't get charged any more anyway.

Tow

LXFlyer wrote: »

How is it not practical to tag on/off? That's baloney.

Is it really that hard to do?

You have obviously never had to tag off in St Stephens Green.

LXFlyer

Tow wrote: »

You have obviously never had to tag off in St Stephens Green.

Frequently - there are two platforms there with validators on both - it's not impossible to do, but it's not life or death.

The main point is that you have to tag on. That's the issue I would have with the other poster who is coming up with excuses not to.

LXFlyer

Ashbx wrote: »

In LeChienMefiant's defence, when I got my tax saver ticket not one person told me nor did it say anywhere on the ticket or their website that you need to tag on. It was only because I asked the inspector one day and he said to me "technically no you don't need to tag on but in terms of Luas getting information on number of commuters, its better if people tag on".

I tag on but never tag off. There's no point queuing to tag off or search my bag for my leap card when I don't get charged any more anyway.

It has always been on the LEAP website that you should tag on/off for both LUAS and Irish Rail to validate the ticket on the card.

Pelvis

LXFlyer wrote: »

How is it not practical to tag on/off? That's baloney.

Is it really that hard to do?

You are actually obliged to do so under the terms and conditions of your ticket.

Can you link us to these T&Cs?

I tag on, mainly because I wasn't sure if I needed to, but I never tag off.

LXFlyer

https://www.leapcard.ie/en/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d

Condition 2.5 requires you to tag on and tag off.

LeChienMefiant

LXFlyer wrote: »

The main point is that you have to tag on. That's the issue I would have with the other poster who is coming up with excuses not to.

Users don't "have to tag on". This isn't Saudi Arabia, and they won't be flogged to death if they don't. Even if it does offend some people's sensibilities.

LXFlyer

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Users don't "have to tag on". This isn't Saudi Arabia, and they won't be flogged to death if they don't. Even if it does offend some people's sensibilities.

Read the conditions above.

I'm not going to bother continuing this discussion - frankly you're just trying to suit yourself by making up your own rules.

cython

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Users don't "have to tag on". This isn't Saudi Arabia, and they won't be flogged to death if they don't. Even if it does offend some people's sensibilities.

You do have to tag on at some point actually, otherwise when your ticket renews it won't get loaded on to the card from the validator. It may be a year away, but if you're never tagging on its easy to forget in 11 months time that you need to do it!

LeChienMefiant

LXFlyer wrote: »

Read the conditions above.

I'm not going to bother continuing this discussion - frankly you're just trying to suit yourself.

There is no practical consequence of breaching the conditions, and hence no good reason to for users to inconvenience themselves.

LeChienMefiant

cython wrote: »

You do have to tag on at some point actually, otherwise when your ticket renews it won't get loaded on to the card from the validator. It may be a year away, but if you're never tagging on its easy to forget in 11 months time that you need to do it!

Absolutely, but not every day. If users can't remember to tag on on the first workign day of the year then maybe they do need to start a habit. In practical terms though, the inspector may facilitate them tagging on when they check the ticket. This has been my own experience when for some reason the inspector felt my ticket needed to be validated.

billybonkers

I just got one through work also, the leaflet that came with it says just to tag on to activate it for the LUAS once, you do not need to every trip...

LoLth

as the annual ticket is "valid until...." I would assume this means it is a valid ticket even when it is not tagged on which meets the requirement to have a valid ticket for your journey before boarding the tram.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

irishguy

I travel the green luas every day for the last year. Have only tagged on once at the start, never since, been stopped quite a few times and they have never once mentioned it to me. I wouldnt bother

monument

LXFlyer wrote: »

How is it not practical to tag on/off? That's baloney.

Is it really that hard to do?

You are actually obliged to do so under the terms and conditions of your ticket.

Terms and conditions do not trump EU and Irish rights to privacy and data protection.

There is no justifiable reason for a valid yearly ticket holder to have to tag on on Luas given the lack of barriers (ie like Irish Rail) and driver checking (like the buses).

Dravokivich

How is it a privacy and data protection issue?

People have just said the queueing is an inconvenience and they don't see the need for it.

goingnowhere

The ticket is sold subject to conditions, one of which is to tag on. While you always have a 'valid' ticket you are not in compliance with bye law 3(1)(b) which requires you use the ticket in line with the published terms and conditions

The tag on process does several things

1. Confirms the card is valid and not flagged
2. Updates the cards products/balance
3. Provides statistical data on use


Now it is highly unlikely that you would ever get to court as you have paid your fare, you had a valid ticket. If this was Irish Rail the case would fail on first test of intent to defraud, but the Luas rules have a lower threshold

Ashbx

Just bear in mind we are speaking about tax saver annual tickets, not the standard leap card. The link that was provided previously on this thread seems to be for the standard leap card.

1. Confirms the card is valid and not flagged - Tax saver tickets only need to tag on once a year to validate it.
2. Updates the cards products/balance - This makes no difference to taxsaver tickets
3. Provides statistical data on use - This would be the ONLY reason why I do tag on every day.

LXFlyer

I'm not sure what part of:

This means that when using Travel Credit or a ticket pre-loaded onto the Leap Card, you must always successfully “Touch-On” prior to commencing any journey

exempts annual ticket holders?

It applies to everyone - you should validate your ticket every time you use public transport.

lawred2

thunderdog wrote: »

A quick query. I have a tax saver annual leap card for bus and luas. I use the bus everyday for which I "tag on" for each bus journey.

I don't use the luas too often. Am I still required to tag on the luas if I am in possession of a yearly tax saver leap card or can I just hop straight on?

If you don't use the luas that often why on Earth are you paying for a dual ticket?

tea and coffee

I asked the inspectors as I often am checked due to travelling at slightly outside of peak times and they said i should tag on. I never tag off tho coz it's a pita

KD345

As an annual pass holder I agree it is a pain to tag on and off for a ticket that is already valid. My main gripe is the positioning of validators on platforms, the crowds of people trying to tag on/off at Stephens Green on a tight platform is frustrating - a few more validators further down the platform would be helpful.

That said, I always tag on and off for each journey. This is simply to register my trip which I feel is important. If I didn't tag on and off there would be no record of my travel and we'd have no data to develop the system. If there is data to show X amount of people are using the Luas then they can justify further investment.

LeChienMefiant

KD345 wrote: »

If there is data to show X amount of people are using the Luas then they can justify further investment.

This IMO is the only valid reason to tag on/off. However, I expect they also gather statistics in other ways such as surveys. I expect they are well aware of the flaws of relying on tag on/off for statistics.

Ashbx

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

This IMO is the only valid reason to tag on/off. However, I expect they also gather statistics in other ways such as surveys. I expect they are well aware of the flaws of relying on tag on/off for statistics.

Yeah they would have to considering a huge chunk of people don't even pay for a ticket let alone worrying about people who tag on or off a lot :pac:

weldoninhio

OSI wrote: »

The T&Cs say one thing, but their own staff and promotional info say another.

T&Cs are binding. I wouldn't imagine word of mouth is.

weldoninhio

Ashbx wrote: »

Just bear in mind we are speaking about tax saver annual tickets, not the standard leap card. The link that was provided previously on this thread seems to be for the standard leap card.

1. Confirms the card is valid and not flagged - Tax saver tickets only need to tag on once a year to validate it.
2. Updates the cards products/balance - This makes no difference to taxsaver tickets
3. Provides statistical data on use - This would be the ONLY reason why I do tag on every day.

https://www.luas.ie/assets/files/RPA%20Marketing%20Campaign/LeapcardFAQ.pdf