Renovating derelict House

OffalyMedic

Hi, looking for some advice. Myself and my partner (mid 20's) are currently renting and trying to save for a mortgage (5year plan)
An idea we have though about recently is renovating his Granny's house which has been unoccupied for approx 5 years in the hope that once complete more money could be saved as rent won't be an issue.
Hoping to do alot off it DIY with some contract work.
What we want to do now is to get an estimate of cost of project and see will we save money in long run but have no clue where to start.
Do we need an engineer, builder, architect, quantity surveyor first?? No major work to be done just gut house (carpets, curtains, furniture etc), erect plasterboard and maybe insulation. As far as I'm aware external walls and roof are still fine and windows are double glazed. It's a bungalow approx 1000-1200sq ft
Thanks in advance

Lumen

I would start by living it in for a few weeks through mixed weather and see how it feels. Is it cold? Damp? Are there issues with condensation? Plumbing? Does the heating work? Do the gutters leak?

You could get a survey done but nothing beats actual experience. I got a survey done by an engineer on my current house before we bought it. His opinion was that one of the upstairs rooms would be freezing and unliveable in winter due to shoddy construction and wafer-thin walls. The owners told us it was the warmest room in the house. They were right.

The best way to save money is to not spend it.

...__...

Im doing the same and just started lived in it for my 2 weeks holidays to get a feel for it.
First thing I wanted to change was the bathroom so que redesigning the waste outside all the way back into the house feckin pain that was.

How old is the house that will affect things like will it need a rewire replumb etc.
But a consultation with an architect is never a bad move he can give you ideas and bring things up to spec for you.

Markcheese

Is there electricity active in the house?
. . . Could cause you a bit of drama getting a reconnection.. You'll need an electrician to certify that everything is up to scratch.. Which may require you to do a lot of rewiring... And possibly a lot of waiting for the ESB..

OffalyMedic

Thanks for your replies. The electricity is still attached as far as I know and the farm yard is run off that line. Not sure when it was built would guess 50's or 60's. Has an eircode and all that too. Will go in for a walk around over weekend to see if it's anyway livable and then maybe get an architect to come view it in a couple weeks.

listermint

Not sure what an architect is going to do for you based on your description.

If you are saving for a house and want to live in this place temp to save on rent then get rid of notions of an architect.

Depending on the state of the place it could just need decoration (easy and do it yourself) or could be rotten from the inside out (youll save nothing)

Get someone in the family who you would trust knows what to look for. i.e damp, wood rot, lack of insulation, Drafts, windows, doors. lift the carpets check the water is running, drainage, roof structure, gutters, loft space, mould.

Water John

The aim, I understand as, to have it liveable whilst saving to build/purchase your own house?

I that is the aim, and it was lived in, up to 5 years ago, I would be looking for fairly minimal upgrade. Very easy to throw money at a project.

OffalyMedic

Yeah exactly the plan is to do up the interior so it's livable while we save up for morgage to build. But we we're wonder if we need to get someone in to survey it for insulation, wood rot, roof stability, windows etc obviously we want to spend as little as possible but want to make sure house is safe to live in also and that we won't be paying more on heating and electricity that we are on rent at present especially now coming into winter

Water John

I think maybe an architect isn't the right profession. I would suggest an Engineer Assessor, the guy who would do a detail house survey if you were buying it.
A house of the 50s or 60s should be a solid build.

He could do a report. Sort of two lists, first the essentials, and second optional.
Essential review would be wiring, sewerage, dampness and any physical repairs, also heating system.
Optional but needed possibly roof insulation and pump walls or dry line.
A lick of paint goes a long way in rejuvenating a room. Great fondness for wallpaper back then.
He/She should only cost €3/400. He has no vested interest in getting more work out of you, so will be objective.

Check it out early some morning and see how cool it is.

OffalyMedic

This is exactly info we were looking for. Knew what we wanted done but not the professional thanks alot

Who owns the house - I would also speak to a solicitor to see if there would be any tax implications.

Having a house might limit your planning options in the future.

OffalyMedic

Deleted User wrote:

Who owns the house - I would also speak to a solicitor to see if there would be any tax implications.

His dad got it left to him

OffalyMedic

Ok so the latest is we went in yesterday for a walk around. Overall its in pretty good nick bar cosmetic stuff seems to be very little wrong with house.
Turns out i was well off in my estimated build date and instead of the 50's it was actually built in the early 1900's however windows and roof all replaced in and around 2005-2008.
We had no measuring tape with us so just stepped it out and i've drawn it up and made adustments to what we would like to do with it. see file attached.

We have enlisted help from family to gut house and paint walls etc. to knock walls and level garden. The boys think they can dry wall and insulate it themselves. So hoping the following will be our costs
materials for DIY jobs,
flooring and instalation
bathroom and fitting (plumber) - shower x2 bath x1, toliet x2, sink x2, radiator x2,
electrician to move sockets etc.
kitchen incl applicances- fridge, dishwasher, table and chairs
Living Space - Couch
Bedrooms - 2 x bed and matresses, 2x wardrobes
Utility - washing machine and dryer, ironing board and iron.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7e1quvRmc2hNTRJMWlRUThOTm8?usp=sharing

If I was moving in with a view to save money for a mortgage I would spend barely anything! I would not consider putting in ensuites or knocking wall or any of that unless it was our future home. It would be wasting money for you deposit on our own home.

OffalyMedic

Deleted User wrote: »

If I was moving in with a view to save money for a mortgage I would spend barely anything! I would not consider putting in ensuites or knocking wall or any of that unless it was our future home. It would be wasting money for you deposit on our own home.

See we will more than likley be there for in or around 2 years maybe more and at present to get from master bedroom to toilet you have to walk through kitchen and down hall hence we feel the need for a small ensuit.

We are planning on knocking old toilet and converting 3rd bedroom into a big bathroom because its almost to small to be a bedroom and the old utility and toilet are very cold damp rooms.

AlmightyCushion

OffalyMedic wrote: »

See we will more than likley be there for in or around 2 years maybe more and at present to get from master bedroom to toilet you have to walk through kitchen and down hall hence we feel the need for a small ensuit.

We are planning on knocking old toilet and converting 3rd bedroom into a big bathroom because its almost to small to be a bedroom and the old utility and toilet are very cold damp rooms.

This all seems mad for a place you'll be living in for only a couple of years. The more you spend doing the place up, the longer you'll have to live there to save up the same deposit.

OffalyMedic

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

This all seems mad for a place you'll be living in for only a couple of years. The more you spend doing the place up, the longer you'll have to live there to save up the same deposit.

I see where you are coming from but we both agree that we'd rather do up this house so we enjoy living there and if that means staying an extra 6mths or what ever we dont mind.

Now in saying all that, the knocking walls and building ensuites is just an idea yet we havnt budgeted it or anything yet so yet to see if its feasible

TheRiverman

I feel what are thinking/planning or going to do will make this house quite a comfortable place to live as the overall condition and structure is good.Have you and your partner ever considered making it your permanent home or is that a feasible option re transfer of ownership,location etc.?.

OffalyMedic

TheRiverman wrote:

I feel what are thinking/planning or going to do will make this house quite a comfortable place to live as the overall condition and structure is good.Have you and your partner ever considered making it your permanent home or is that a feasible option re transfer of ownership,location etc.?.

It's too small to make it our permanent home. And location is great either (basically in my in-laws front garden and back garden of his aunt and uncle with the farm yard outside the window). So what we want to do is but 15-20k into this to make it comfortable for us to live in for next 2-3 years while saving and building our own house with a view to renting it down the line to other family members (cousin's, uncle's, aunts, niece's nephews etc)

JimmyMW

OffalyMedic wrote: »

It's too small to make it our permanent home. And location is great either (basically in my in-laws front garden and back garden of his aunt and uncle with the farm yard outside the window). So what we want to do is but 15-20k into this to make it comfortable for us to live in for next 2-3 years while saving and building our own house with a view to renting it down the line to other family members (cousin's, uncle's, aunts, niece's nephews etc)

Whats rent costing in the area? If something comfortable could be rented for €6-700 per month it would be away better to you than throwing €20k and a lot of effort at an old house. also you may have large hidden costs re electrical connection etc if the house has been unconnected for a long period of time, over 18 months I think.

Water John

The OP said, it's already connected to ESB. Rewiring may need to be considered.

From the plan, now that we know these are solid walls, from the age of build, Dry lining the inside with 50mm thick insulated plaster board would make it cosy.
At a guess 30 slabs of 8 x 4.

The project of making it good enough for extended family or acquaintances to rent is a good idea. A lot of that going on in the countryside. Young couples, renting old farm houses at reasonable money whilst they save a deposit/build and yet have their own living space.

Best to tear into it over a short period of time, if friends and family are helping. Fatigue can set in, if it drags out. 3/4months and beat it into shape.

Small thing, not sure are actual baths used much any more. A sloping floor shower area might be better.

OffalyMedic

Water John wrote: »

The OP said, it's already connected to ESB. Rewiring may need to be considered.

From the plan, now that we know these are solid walls, from the age of build, Dry lining the inside with 50mm thick insulated plaster board would make it cosy.
At a guess 30 slabs of 8 x 4.

The project of making it good enough for extended family or acquaintances to rent is a good idea. A lot of that going on in the countryside. Young couples, renting old farm houses at reasonable money whilst they save a deposit/build and yet have their own living space.

Best to tear into it over a short period of time, if friends and family are helping. Fatigue can set in, if it drags out. 3/4months and beat it into shape.

Thanks everyone for your advice. ATM we are paying over 800 for rent in a small 2 bed apartment that 10-15mins away from his homeplace / farm where he works. This house is 5 yards from the yard
His brother-in-law is a builder. 3 uncles and dad have done alot of DIY work over the years incl building sheds, re-roofing this house among other things so they'll be well able. My mam is great and painting and wall paper etc. Have friends doing electrician and carpentry apprenticeships.

Lease up in our current apartment at start of April so if we are to go ahead with the renovation it will be done before then.

TheRiverman

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your advice. ATM we are paying over 800 for rent in a small 2 bed apartment that 10-15mins away from his homeplace / farm where he works. This house is 5 yards from the yard
His brother-in-law is a builder. 3 uncles and dad have done alot of DIY work over the years incl building sheds, re-roofing this house among other things so they'll be well able. My mam is great and painting and wall paper etc. Have friends doing electrician and carpentry apprenticeships.

Lease up in our current apartment at start of April so if we are to go ahead with the renovation it will be done before then.

Lots of advantages there with family members and friends you can trust to do the work.Good luck.

Markcheese

If it was a short term thing, to save money, yeah I d make it comfortable, but keep it simple.. As possible..
I'd probably stick in a stove or 2 and forget the insulation (maybe the attic if it's easily done . Paint everything including floors. Do draught proof it well, but you still need ventilation... What needs rewiring is a must.. And look at where and how much power you need, no point paying to put plugs everywhere and chasing walls ect but you don't want to overload sockets either.. 😀

TheFarrier

Any progress made here?? Interesting thread

OffalyMedic

Just starting into it at the moment.
Have house gutted ourselves - so wallpaper took down, skirting and architrave taken off, furniture cleared out etc.
This side of Christmas we are going to have. 1. flat roof refelted and foamed - us and contractor
2. Old drylining taken down- us
3. Internal wall demolished- brother in law
4. Garden dug up and some of sewerage sorted - brother in law

Then New year we plan to:
Sort out electrics - uncle
Sort out plumbing - uncle
Dry line external walls and all flat roof room walls - us + uncle
Built stud wall ensuite and put in two cement floors - contractor and us
PVC cladding toilets - us
Laminate floor - us
Carpets- fitter
Kitchen- Ikea and us
Painting wallpaper etc us
Furniture

That's the plan anyway and to be completed by 1st April. Here's hoping all goes to plan

mrs.doubt.fire

Through my own experience renovating old houses, if it's been derelict for 2 yrs or more, meaning the heating has not been switched on and the radiators not being used, chances are you'll have to replace ALL the radiators as you dont want to find out when all the work is done that the radiators are leaking, chances are most of them will be leaking, so save your self the heartache and get all new radiators now while the floor's are being pulled up.
There will be places later during the work where you can cut corners and safe money but not when it comes to the plumbing, electrics, roof etc You can cut many a corner when it comes to painting and decorating (cheaper wall paper, free standing furniture etc) as over time (months, years) you can save your money and buy the furniture and decor you really wanted. Rome was'nt built in a day

OffalyMedic

mrs.doubt.fire wrote:

Through my own experience renovating old houses, if it's been derelict for 2 yrs or more, meaning the heating has not been switched on and the radiators not being used, chances are you'll have to replace ALL the radiators as you dont want to find out when all the work is done that the radiators are leaking, chances are most of them will be leaking, so save your self the heartache and get all new radiators now while the floor's are being pulled up. There will be places later during the work where you can cut corners and safe money but not when it comes to the plumbing, electrics, roof etc You can cut many a corner when it comes to painting and decorating (cheaper wall paper, free standing furniture etc) as over time (months, years) you can save your money and buy the furniture and decor you really wanted. Rome was'nt built in a day

Thanks for that we decided yesterday while pulling up floors we would retrack some of the radiators and replace them all

Turbohymac

Hi. Yes definitely get. A Good reputable engineer to carry out a full report on the current condition of the house.. we did up a cottage back in 05 and it wasn't an easy task.. looking at a bungalow which would be far newer than our. 1937. Cottage is definitely better. But Get it right starting off and save constant upgrades later.. Might easily need all new plumbing /heating. And almost definitely electrics. As anything back in the 80s didn't have the modern breakers/trips and wiring quality that's needed today for satisfying Mr reci
As mentioned already keep an open opinion on everything until ye get engineers report. And also coatings to all necessary work and any extra extensions etc.. otherwise costs could spiral upwards.. And also most people are limited in reality to the amount of work ye can actually carry out yerselves.. we all have possibly jobs to hold down etc. And what seems easy can change quickly a time-consuming nightmare.. plan ahead. And always allow for over runs which always cost more money.
Best of luck. I've been there before

Water John

I would take two insulated pipes to rads in each room and return to a manifold. Can give you complete zoned heating. Set rooms at diff temps, esp bedrooms. TRVs are poor.

OffalyMedic

OffalyMedic wrote:

Just starting into it at the moment. Have house gutted ourselves - so wallpaper took down, skirting and architrave taken off, furniture cleared out etc.
This side of Christmas we are going to have.
1. flat roof refelted and foamed - us and contractor - DONE
2. Old drylining taken down- us DONE
3. Internal wall demolished- brother in law TOMORROW
4. Garden dug up and some of sewerage sorted - brother in law

YES DUG UP NO SEWERAGE

PLUS old timber floors taken up and clause 804 barrowed in as filler about 4-6inches in three rooms...going to put down a damp proof membrane them 100mm insulation with plumbing pipes cut into it then cement.

Metric Tensor

Get a cert from the quarry for the "804" to prove its annex E compliant. You should be using a material called T1 Struc rather than 804. They look identical and in many cases are the same but T1 Struc has certs to prove it's pyrite free. Clause 804 does not.

manonboard

Good luck op. Interrsting read so far.
Hope it keeps going well for you.

OffalyMedic

Metric Tensor wrote:

Get a cert from the quarry for the "804" to prove its annex E compliant. You should be using a material called T1 Struc rather than 804. They look identical and in many cases are the same but T1 Struc has certs to prove it's pyrite free. Clause 804 does not.

Thanks for this but too late now must have wheelbarrowed in 60 barrows today not taking it out to change it to pyrite free....what is pyrite anyway?? 804 is what was recommended by a builder friend and quarry

flatty

As an aside, do you need planning permission to renovate a derelict house??

Dakota Dan

Markcheese wrote: »

Is there electricity active in the house?
. . . Could cause you a bit of drama getting a reconnection.. You'll need an electrician to certify that everything is up to scratch.. Which may require you to do a lot of rewiring... And possibly a lot of waiting for the ESB..

It cost me around 250, depends on who you know.

BryanF

flatty wrote: »

As an aside, do you need planning permission to renovate a derelict house??

Possibly

manonboard

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Thanks for this but too late now must have wheelbarrowed in 60 barrows today not taking it out to change it to pyrite free....what is pyrite anyway?? 804 is what was recommended by a builder friend and quarry

Pyrite is a substance found in some foundations that expands over time n can crack foundations and walls.
It's quite a serious issue n I believe there are grants to remove it.
My work colleague had his foundations removes about 2 weeks ago. Up to a meter from house boundary.

I suggest googling it if you are unsure about it but it's a serious problem.
Your 804 may not have pyrite in it but it's important to investigate n check.

flatty

BryanF wrote: »

flatty wrote: »

As an aside, do you need planning permission to renovate a derelict house??

Possibly

Is there anywhere to find criteria?
I have a couple of old farmhouses on land I bought, really as an emotional tie more than anything.
The lady that lived in them died about 15 years ago and they've been derelict since.
I'd love to renovate one as a holiday home.

Water John

Unless you are major altering the outside, I'd say you'd be ok. Eng/Arch to confirm.

BryanF

flatty wrote: »

Is there anywhere to find criteria?
I have a couple of old farmhouses on land I bought, really as an emotional tie more than anything.
The lady that lived in them died about 15 years ago and they've been derelict since.
I'd love to renovate one as a holiday home.

Planning required. Speak to your local planning Dept. It would be useful to speak to an arch/eng to Understand the waste treatment requirements and what external extension/ construction would be considered acceptable by the local authorities

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76912462

BryanF

Water John wrote: »

Eng/Arch to confirm.

correct.

flatty

BryanF wrote: »

Water John wrote: »

Eng/Arch to confirm.

correct.

I thought eng/arch were posters on here.
Blush.

flatty

BryanF wrote: »

flatty wrote: »

Is there anywhere to find criteria?
I have a couple of old farmhouses on land I bought, really as an emotional tie more than anything.
The lady that lived in them died about 15 years ago and they've been derelict since.
I'd love to renovate one as a holiday home.

Planning required. Speak to your local planning Dept. It would be useful to speak to an arch/eng to Understand the waste treatment requirements and what external extension/ construction would be considered acceptable by the local authorities

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76912462

In fairness, the house in that thread was gone. This still has walls and roof. Not sure about drainage /percolation, but it's on 30 odd acres with lots of road frontage, and the neighbours, such as they are, have already said that they don't mind whatever I do.
The houses are all marked on the land portfolio.

OffalyMedic

flatty wrote:

As an aside, do you need planning permission to renovate a derelict house??

We didn't cause it's all internal work really... think you only need planning if ur building something 10m or similar high?? Something like that anyway

Dakota Dan wrote:

It cost me around 250, depends on who you know.

We found someone in esb whose going to help us

BryanF

OffalyMedic wrote: »

We didn't cause it's all internal work really... think you only need planning if ur building something 10m or similar high?? Something like that anyway

If the house is derelict you need planning.

10m high?? Yeah something like that.

Calahonda52

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Thanks for this but too late now must have wheelbarrowed in 60 barrows today not taking it out to change it to pyrite free....what is pyrite anyway?? 804 is what was recommended by a builder friend and quarry

Reminds me of the program Only fools and horses.
http://www.propertyhealthcheck.ie/what-is-pyrite-in-houses/frequently-asked-questions-about-pyrite-testing/
You wont be able to sell the house without all these works and materials being certified.

Lumen

It's a bit mad that someone doing construction (even self-build) wouldn't know what pyrite was.

But then...

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Myself and my partner (mid 20's)

...so I guess you were still in school when the news coverage started. It was kind of a big deal (and still is TBH).

Metric Tensor

Lumen wrote: »

It was kind of a big deal

Love it!

Mokeydope

mrs.doubt.fire wrote: »

Through my own experience renovating old houses, if it's been derelict for 2 yrs or more, meaning the heating has not been switched on and the radiators not being used, chances are you'll have to replace ALL the radiators as you dont want to find out when all the work is done that the radiators are leaking, chances are most of them will be leaking, so save your self the heartache and get all new radiators now while the floor's are being pulled up.
There will be places later during the work where you can cut corners and safe money but not when it comes to the plumbing, electrics, roof etc You can cut many a corner when it comes to painting and decorating (cheaper wall paper, free standing furniture etc) as over time (months, years) you can save your money and buy the furniture and decor you really wanted. Rome was'nt built in a day

Is it just the rads?

Would the copper pipework still be ok

OffalyMedic

Update on work so far. Everything done by ourselves and family unless otherwise stated
-House gutted completely- kitchen, furniture, 1 fireplace, skirting+architraves, tongue and groove gone etc. etc..
-flat roof refelted and insulated - €2200
-Old drylining taken down
- Internal wall demolished
- Poorly constructed extension demolished and garden dug up
- completely rewired
- completely replummed
- 804 filling and insulation put on floors in 3 rooms
- Chimneys cleaned and fires lighting

Left to do
-Dry line external walls - starting next week (Builder)
-3 cement floors going in on Saturday
- 2 New windows, external door, fascia, soffit and gutters going in next week (Contractor)
-Build stud wall ensuite (Builder)
- Sewerage upgraded
- New boiler and oil tank installed (electrician)
- New water tank installed
-Tile Bathroom (Tiler)
-Flooring - still trying to decided between laminate/vinyl
-Carpets (Fitter)
- Ikea Kitchen, bedroom and utility storage
-Painting wallpaper etc us
-Furniture

Here's hoping all goes to plan to be moved in 1st April