Can an employer ask you for your alcohol tobacco use?

batman1

Is it appropriate, or legal, for an employer to ask to fill in a pre employment medical questionnaire asking personal questions?

Questions such as units of alcohol per week, cigarettes per day, as well as prescribed meds. Even when and why last GP visit and how many days sick absense in the last 12 months!

Paragraph I have seen says company will hold information in the event of illness, accident or claim, and 'other purposes as may be required by law.'

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

laotg

batman1 wrote:

Is it appropriate, or legal, for an employer to ask to fill in a pre employment medical questionnaire asking personal questions?

batman1 wrote:

Questions such as units of alcohol per week, cigarettes per day, as well as prescribed meds. Even when and why last GP visit and how many days sick absense in the last 12 months!

batman1 wrote:

Paragraph I have seen says company will hold information in the event of illness, accident or claim, and 'other purposes as may be required by law.'

Every pre-employment medical exam I've gone for involves filling in a form with all those questions on it. The doctor uses them to see if you're medically fit for the job.

seamus

Pretty standard questions for a pre-employment medical. Does the company offer health or life cover as part of the employment package?

There's also a tendency for American companies to use the same employment practices here as they do in the U.S., even when they may not be appropriate or legal. Who are you to give that form to - the HR person or the company doctor?

Nothing stopping you from lying on it anyway. "No, I don't drink or smoke".

mrcheez

seamus wrote: »

Nothing stopping you from lying on it anyway. "No, I don't drink or smoke".

... until you're busted at your first company social

seamus

That information is confidential. If a manager or HR person brought it up you could nail them.

Anyway, "I only started after working here"

meep

Caught part of Joe Duffy this afternoon where they had an employer on who refuses to employ smokesr. It's in his job ad. and first question at interview. If interviewee answers 'yes', he terminates the interview.

I was surprised at this but he claims he had an ex-employee take an unfair dismissal case to Europe and he found that;

1. It is legal to discriminate against smokers for employment
2. If an individual declares as a non-smoker and is later found to be a smoker, they be dismissed.

As I say, surprising but the guy seems to have taken it all the way to the top and been vindicated.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

brightspark

I'm surprised that some companies don't just hire non-smokers for jobs involving driving such as delivery drivers etc.

I've seen many drivers actually smoking in their trucks, an illegal act in itself.

seamus

meep wrote: »

Caught part of Joe Duffy this afternoon where they had an employer on who refuses to employ smokesr. It's in his job ad. and first question at interview. If interviewee answers 'yes', he terminates the interview.

I was surprised at this but he claims he had an ex-employee take an unfair dismissal case to Europe and he found that;

1. It is legal to discriminate against smokers for employment
2. If an individual declares as a non-smoker and is later found to be a smoker, they be dismissed.

As I say, surprising but the guy seems to have taken it all the way to the top and been vindicated.

Here you go:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/refusal-to-give-jobs-to-smokers-is-not-illegal-10330.html

It doesn't surprise me at all; there is no "right to smoke" enshrined anywhere, nor should there be.

As that link says, there is likely a question about the validity of firing someone who is "found to be" a smoker after declaring they're not. Though ultimately if you lie to an employer when you're hired, it's usually pretty open-and-shut.

But if you later take up smoking, there's little they can do except start disciplinary proceedings if you start taking smoke breaks.

Despite what I say above, if you're a smoker you should probably admit that rather than try to hide it, but if you go out and get bolloxed every weekend, you don't need to say that.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

meep

seamus wrote: »

Here you go:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/refusal-to-give-jobs-to-smokers-is-not-illegal-10330.html

It doesn't surprise me at all; there is no "right to smoke" enshrined anywhere, nor should there be.

As that link says, there is likely a question about the validity of firing someone who is "found to be" a smoker after declaring they're not. Though ultimately if you lie to an employer when you're hired, it's usually pretty open-and-shut.

But if you later take up smoking, there's little they can do except start disciplinary proceedings if you start taking smoke breaks.

Despite what I say above, if you're a smoker you should probably admit that rather than try to hide it, but if you go out and get bolloxed every weekend, you don't need to say that.

Thanks for that.

I agree with you that there should not be a 'right to smoke', my surprise was that employers could discriminate on this as a factor - I would have supposed that not to be the case.

Mrs OBumble

Fred Swanson wrote: »

If you didn't smoke during working hours I wouldn't see what you do at home is any of their business.

Not bringing the compay into disrepute applies 24x7.

I'd never knowingly hire a smoker.

But I'm surprised its not illegal on disability grounds: the poor cherubs are addicted, it's not their fault poor things. (Bollox its not; my mother stopped overnight when the doctor put the hard word on her - anyone can if they want to.)

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Really Interested

meep wrote: »

Thanks for that.

I agree with you that there should not be a 'right to smoke', my surprise was that employers could discriminate on this as a factor - I would have supposed that not to be the case.

A employer can discriminate once it's not one of the statutory grounds.

Victor

I imagine it is relevant in some employents, e.g. employing smokers in an oil refinery or explosives factory is just waiting for a problem.

Deagol

Victor wrote: »

I imagine it is relevant in some employents, e.g. employing smokers in an oil refinery or explosives factory is just waiting for a problem.

Sorry, got to tell you that's not true at all. Smokers are catered for at oil refineries and on oil platforms etc. Dedicated smoking areas and no lighters/matches allowed.

Stheno

Deagol wrote: »

Sorry, got to tell you that's not true at all. Smokers are catered for at oil refineries and on oil platforms etc. Dedicated smoking areas and no lighters/matches allowed.

How do you light the cigarette with no matches or lighters?

Esel

Stheno wrote: »

How do you light the cigarette with no matches or lighters?

Off the flare!

Deagol

Stheno wrote: »

How do you light the cigarette with no matches or lighters?

DOH!! Meant to put that. They have wall mounted glow lighter things.

http://www.ciglow.co.uk/product_catalogue.asp

Deagol

Esel wrote: »

Off the flare!

Or off your own hair if you get that close to the flare

Redsoxfan

Could it be linked to life assurance within a pension scheme? This is one of the reasons behind a pre-employment medical.

Mean Laqueefa

Stheno wrote: »

How do you light the cigarette with no matches or lighters?

Where i work we have these heat igniter thingys mounted to the fence, if out of order a normal lighter chained to a big block of wood thats singed in and out

El Weirdo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not bringing the compay into disrepute applies 24x7.

I'd never knowingly hire a smoker.

An employee smoking brings a company into disrepute now?

brightspark

El Weirdo wrote: »

An employee smoking brings a company into disrepute now?

I recently saw a bread delivery van driver smoking? If he smokes in his van, how do I trust he isn't breaking other food safety rules.

I don't buy that particular bread, but if I did perhaps I might decide it's time to change.

Paulw

brightspark wrote: »

I recently saw a bread delivery van driver smoking? If he smokes in his van, how do I trust he isn't breaking other food safety rules.

Is that not a breach of the law, since a company van is technically a place of work?? :eek:

You should have reported it to the employer.

El Weirdo

brightspark wrote: »

I recently saw a bread delivery van driver smoking? If he smokes in his van, how do I trust he isn't breaking other food safety rules.

If my aunt had balls...

brightspark

El Weirdo wrote: »

If my aunt had balls...

Perhaps, but I did see him smoking, and I know I won't buy their bread.

0ph0rce0

brightspark wrote: »

Perhaps, but I did see him smoking, and I know I won't buy their bread.

Chap had a smoke in the van, Nowhere near the bread? I doubt he packs it up. Plus its all sealed.

What's he going to do open up all the packs and wipe his hole with the slices? After every smoke.

Doltanian

Why should companies be forced to employ drug addicts? Tobacco and Alcohol are the most common and damaging drugs in our society. Try dealing with a person who hasn't had a cigarette and they are anxious, irrational and likely to do anything to get their next nicotine hit. Smoking is a sign of mental weakness and alcohol abuse is something that greatly effects the workplace also. Neither should be accepted nor should other illegal narcotics.

0ph0rce0

Doltanian wrote: »

Why should companies be forced to employ drug addicts? Tobacco and Alcohol are the most common and damaging drugs in our society. Try dealing with a person who hasn't had a cigarette and they are anxious, irrational and likely to do anything to get their next nicotine hit. Smoking is a sign of mental weakness and alcohol abuse is something that greatly effects the workplace also. Neither should be accepted nor should other illegal narcotics.

It's a fag ffs, not Crack Cocaine.

brightspark

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Chap had a smoke in the van, Nowhere near the bread? I doubt he packs it up. Plus its all sealed.

What's he going to do open up all the packs and wipe his hole with the slices? After every smoke.

Wow, I never contemplated him doing that. :rolleyes:

However having a smoke in the van is illegal. If he doesn't obey the law I have my doubts about him being fully compliant in HACCP and other food handling rules and regulations. Perhaps he is, but it does potentially bring his company into disrepute.

brightspark

Paulw wrote: »

Is that not a breach of the law, since a company van is technically a place of work?? :eek:

You should have reported it to the employer.

True, but I was driving at the time, and didn't have the ability to note his registration etc.

I think companies should have their own ways of monitoring employees, it shouldn't be hard for a non smoker to tell when someone has been smoking in a company van.

RoboRat

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Until you get chest / sinus infections etc and have to take time off at the expense of the employer. Smoking causes a multitude of added complications to your health and if the employer is offering sick pay, extended illness cover, life insurance etc, they should be aware if the person they are offering this to smokes.

Likewise if you frequently drink after work it would directly affect your performance in work. I have worked with people who drink a lot and they are a disaster and I for one wouldn't leave them in any position of responsibility.

The_Pretender

Doltanian wrote: »

Why should companies be forced to employ drug addicts? Tobacco and Alcohol are the most common and damaging drugs in our society. Try dealing with a person who hasn't had a cigarette and they are anxious, irrational and likely to do anything to get their next nicotine hit. Smoking is a sign of mental weakness and alcohol abuse is something that greatly effects the workplace also. Neither should be accepted nor should other illegal narcotics.

No smoking allowed in our office so smokers only get to smoke over lunch. Doesn't stop them being in work early and working late, doesn't mean they're not doing the same work non-smokers do. Can say the same for fat people, its mental weakness that they can't eat the right food, don't hire them.

It's down to the persons overall attitude more than the fact they smoke. Take someone who would be seen a difficult smoker to work with i.e. the kind who goes for a smoke for 10 mins every hour. That to me shows an entitled attitude, thinking that's reasonable. If you were actually busy focusing on your work you wouldn't feel the need to do it, it's only when you're not busy that time goes slower and you feel the need more. The same kind of person would likely baulk at having to stay in late to complete a crucial project or having to go in anyway above and beyond in work and wouldn't be seen as the ideal employee anyway to begin with.

Robbo

Moderation: A polite reminder about keeping the tone of things civil in here. A couple of recent posts are over the line. Any more and cards will be dished out.

Victor

El Weirdo wrote: »

An employee smoking brings a company into disrepute now?

Medical staff in uniform smoking outside the cancer ward, yeah.

In the pharmaceutical and allied industries, smoking is severely frowned upon.

Doltanian wrote: »

Why should companies be forced to employ drug addicts?

De facto they are, because so many people drink (not so many smoke these days).

Smoking is a sign of mental weakness

Much harsh?