Touchscreens in cars

_Kaiser_

So I was feckin about on YouTube earlier and it recommended a video of the New A8:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ePJQGEjaas

From about 30 seconds in he goes on about how cool the new touchscreen controls are, but I disagree... aside from the distraction of having to try and stab your finger in the right space while driving, I actually PREFER a real physical button for controls in a car.

But it seems that with more cars now gluing iPads to the dash that this tech will probably be more and more prevalent.

But how will it work in say Ireland where you can be prosecuted for using a phone while driving - this is even worse again is it not?

Or am I just a luddite?

v240gltse

Hi Kaiser

nope you not a Luddite & I totally agree with you . The new design for cars having touchscreens fitted is even more of a distraction I believe than dare I say it the phone. Just look at the Tesla tablet or New Volvo S90 tablet pure madness

I believe simple switches never caused any accidents but with these new hand gesture screens i can see lots of issues ahead.

fletch

I love new technology but give me a physical button in a car over a silly touchscreen. In my own car, I can adjust the heating controls/radio without even having to look. I don't really understand why it isn't acceptable to use a phone in your car but it is acceptable to use these new touchscreens.

terrydel

Totally agree with the op. There are so many features in cars now that touchscreen is needed because you would need a million buttons to do everything.
But most of them are just distractions imho. More of a danger than anything else.
Of course if as it looks likely, the cars will drive themselves soon, all these extra features to occupy the 'driver' will make more sense.

me_irl

fletch wrote: »

I love new technology but give me a physical button in a car over a silly touchscreen. In my own car, I can adjust the heating controls/radio without even having to look.

+1 having a tactile knob, button or lever is far better than having to take your eyes off the road to look at an information-dense screen.

I'm going to sound like an oul fella, but I think technology in cars is the epitome of bells and whistles. Give me my basic controls around the steering wheel and leave it at that!

cruizer101

Yeah I have to agree much prefer a physical button or dial then the touchscreens, far harder to know exactly where you've pressed you need to actually focus on the touchscreen as opposed to just reaching across and knowing where the buttons are by memory and by feel.

seamus

v240gltse wrote: »

I believe simple switches never caused any accidents but with these new hand gesture screens i can see lots of issues ahead.

I disagree with that. There's a famous police video from the late 90's of a car veering off the road and hitting a wall, which turned out to be a nurse fiddling with her radio.

Nevertheless the I agree that touchscreens have no place in a moving vehicle and the law should require that touch controls are disabled at least while the vehicle is moving, if not while the handbrake is disengaged.

This should extend to bluetooth integration which forces an override on your phone and disables the touchscreen on the phone, when connected the stereo by bluetooth.

It's definitely not being a luddite, it's obvious that there is a world of difference between physical controls - that don't require you to look at them - and touchscreen ones.

Especially with modern voice control being as good as it is, there is no good reason for touching a screen while driving.

grogi

Touchscreen for Satnav/Media player/Settings, but physical buttons for Aircon and basic Media Contols: Volume Regulation and Next/Previous Track/Station.

IMHO BMW does it right... But the hand gestures are completely useless gimmicks.

Dravokivich

It's far easier to count across buttons. It's how we use keyboards, we just don't notice we are doing it. Try using a screen in place of the keyboard and who knows what kind of a mess will pop up without looking at where you are placing your fingers.

I was thinking of putting something into my car lately. But been looking down to the 2 places it'd go. Even from an observation perspective without trying to control anything, I'd find myself looking too far down into my car from the road.

The 2 screens in the image coming up for that video, both seem to be be quite low as well to me.

I think BMW designed it right, putting them on the top of the Dash. But still unsure of whether it's a good idea as a controller.

seamus wrote: »

I disagree with that. There's a famous police video from the late 90's of a car veering off the road and hitting a wall, which turned out to be a nurse fiddling with her radio.

And there was the Tesla that crashed into the truck. Both cases it's the driver not being attentive to what they should have been focused on.

Stallingrad

Totally agree OP, ergonomic madness.

Yet, would you, or anyone else here buy a brand new car that came without a touchscreen?

grogi

Stallingrad wrote: »

Totally agree OP, ergonomic madness.

Yet, would you, or anyone else here buy a brand new car that came without a touchscreen?

Yes. There are far more important things in a car than stupid touchscreen.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Nevertheless the I agree that touchscreens have no place in a moving vehicle and the law should require that touch controls are disabled at least while the vehicle is moving, if not while the handbrake is disengaged.

This would mean no heating controls and very limited functions in general in many newer cars, Peugeots in particular every function is through the touch screen.

Guy:Incognito

Every time there's a discussion about Aircon /climate control here there's a slew of people saying how great it is. Set the temp and leave it be. How often are people messing with their temperature controls that it's a big issue now?

This is just a continuation of the "how can you not have buttons on a phone" discussions from a decade ago. Everything will be fine.

Stallingrad

grogi wrote: »

Yes. There are far more important things in a car than stupid touchscreen.

My point is, if any manufacturer ditched touchscreens no-one would buy them. They are expected now by consumers (for better or worse) and they are here to stay. Think Blackberry V iPhone. The best systems are complimented by buttons and knobs, adjusting the temperature via the screen (like the new 3008) is bloody ridiculous.

Eric Cartman

Im all for touch screens in cars, but track forward / back and volume should be physical controls I can get to without looking

passatman86

I find a lot of these will be cracked/broken easily with expensive repair bills suiting the oem manufacturer

Dravokivich

passatman86 wrote: »

I find a lot of these will be cracked/broken easily with expensive repair bills suiting the oem manufacturer

Find or suspect? They've been in cars for a while now. it's only more recently they've been reducing or taking out buttons for a touch screen action.

_Kaiser_

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Every time there's a discussion about Aircon /climate control here there's a slew of people saying how great it is. Set the temp and leave it be. How often are people messing with their temperature controls that it's a big issue now?

This is just a continuation of the "how can you not have buttons on a phone" discussions from a decade ago. Everything will be fine.

The difference here though is drivers trying to adjust controls while in traffic or at speed and having to actually look at the screen, as opposed to being able to just reach down and adjust a physical switch from memory without even a glance

The tech in that A8 will filter down of course so before long you'll find it in all the other models and thus exasperating the above issues I feel.

And yes, to answer the above I'd happily buy a car without a touchscreen as long as it had a decent size screen anyway and a effective UI/controls

Stallingrad

passatman86 wrote: »

I find a lot of these will be cracked/broken easily with expensive repair bills suiting the oem manufacturer

Add to that dead pixels and screen burn, which I've seen on 2 year old cars, and when it goes you may loose access to all functions.

Del2005

Buttons are gone from cars because of cost. It's too expensive in time on the assembly line and parts to put switches or buttons into cars.

The driver is always ultimately responsible for maintaining control and with the amount of people using their phones, usually in Bluetooth equipped vehicles, a touch screen to control the vehicle is the least of our problems.

cruizer101

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

This is just a continuation of the "how can you not have buttons on a phone" discussions from a decade ago. Everything will be fine.

If there was a good android phone with a slide out keyboard I'd be all over, physical buttons have a lot of advantages.

That said I also don't think it is directly comparable with phones, when driving you should be focused on driving and a touchscreen which complicates controls can potentially distract from you driving. With phones it was fair enough to add a touchscreen to add functionality because you are not ( or at least not meant to be ) controlling a 1 tonne lump of metal travelling at high speeds.

_Kaiser_

Del2005 wrote: »

Buttons are gone from cars because of cost. It's too expensive in time on the assembly line and parts to put switches or buttons into cars.

The driver is always ultimately responsible for maintaining control and with the amount of people using their phones, usually in Bluetooth equipped vehicles, a touch screen to control the vehicle is the least of our problems.

I doubt it's that much more expensive.. not on the manufacturing scale we're talking about, besides it's just a different control unit in many cases (which the manufacturers do specifically so they can sell them as options)

If anything I can see software bugs, display damage and other issues in a central unit causing a lot more problems.

stesaurus

A combination of physical and touch screen works well. I can just about navigate the menus in my BMW using the control stick thingie without looking but it is still a distraction as you need to follow the screen. It's not perfect, nothing currently is.

Ideally speaking we should be looking at user settings being saved and the car recognising the user as soon as you sit in, then add in a few voice commands that actually work. We're almost at that stage. The model 3 will have virtually no buttons. All user settings (air con, mirrors, seat position, radio faves etc.) saved and will use facial recognition you when you sit down. It's all part of the car sharing master plan.

_Kaiser_

stesaurus wrote: »

A combination of physical and touch screen works well. I can just about navigate the menus in my BMW using the control stick thingie without looking but it is still a distraction as you need to follow the screen. It's not perfect, nothing currently is.

Ideally speaking we should be looking at user settings being saved and the car recognising the user as soon as you sit in, then add in a few voice commands that actually work. We're almost at that stage. The model 3 will have virtually no buttons. All user settings (air con, mirrors, seat position, radio faves etc.) saved and will use facial recognition you when you sit down. It's all part of the car sharing master plan.

Unless this happens....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc1cX0abcJc

seamus

Quentin Nutty Peppermint wrote: »

This would mean no heating controls and very limited functions in general in many newer cars, Peugeots in particular every function is through the touch screen.

So be it. It's all software anyway, so if voice control isn't already possible then retrofitting it into such vehicles is just a software download.

If anything, restricting the possible fiddling that the driver can do while driving is preferable to either physical knobs and touchscreens.

MOH

There's a parallel to sending a text with a smartphone compared to an old phone where you could feel the keys.
You could walk down the street typing largely by touch from habit, with an occasional glance to correct any mistakes or enter a more unusual word.
Nowadays everyone (myself included) is wandering around with their face half buried in their phone and reduced attention to what's going on around them.

Del2005

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I doubt it's that much more expensive.. not on the manufacturing scale we're talking about, besides it's just a different control unit in many cases (which the manufacturers do specifically so they can sell them as options)

If anything I can see software bugs, display damage and other issues in a central unit causing a lot more problems.

You want to control 4 different items. With switches you need to design and manufacture them, they need to delivered and detrashed and delivered to the assembly line (most likely by being put into a shadow board) , then you need to individually wire them to the location, you then need to individually install the switches and connect them. To control them with a touch screen you only need to install and connect once.

When you are dealing in large scale manufacturing saving a few cent on an item really ads up, so by removing 3 steps from a process you have a huge saving. They've removed a lot more than 4 buttons with a touch screen.

Aren't most important controls on the steering wheel now anyway? So nothing on the touch screen should be needed when driving, not that that stops people using their phones when driving.

Truckermal

My oul 12 year old bus is touchscreen it's a great job IMO..

I also prefer buttons over a touch screen, if I'm honest. A lot of the new touch screens look like tacky aftermarket add-ons they way they're super-glued onto the middle of the dash. Some really poor design out there.

(Although, to each their own, and all that)

The Rape of Lucretia

You are spot on OP. These things are down right dangerous.

Physical push buttons, switches, and rotaries had by their design almost not need to look at them at all. You knew in was on, out was off; left was off, right was on; full clockwise was max volume/airflow; or what ever. But screens are inherently dangerous in that they force you to look at them to see their status, and to confirm that you have indeed implemented the change of state desired. Its a huge backward step increasing the time people's eyes are off the road.

Even touch buttons that were push for on, push for off, with an LED to show the state were a bad move.You have to check the LED. A full motion push button's status is intrinsically tactile. You know its status by feel, and has no need to be seen to confirm that the change of state has been made. The buttons didnt move, or adopt multiple functions. In time you got to know their location by habit and hardly had to look at them at all. An ever changing screen with multiple buttons obliging you to check which is being offered before you even go to touch it is a disaster.

A mobile phone to your ear at least allows you to keep your eyes on the road, whether fully concentrating or not.
Touch screens. Bad, bad, bad.

Rulmeq

The worst part is that they are all designed for left hand drive cars (or maybe that's the best part, when I need to use it, I have to pull over, which I guess is safer)

Ubbquittious

I spend enough time behind the screen during the day that I dont need any of this sh1te in my car.

But it helps the upgrade cycle I suppose. The tech starts getting seriously dated after about 5 years and that will bring consumers back to the dealer for a new one.

Maybe soon enough you'll get a car with no screen. Just a space for you to place a tablet or laptop which loads up all your controls as soon as you put it there

The Rape of Lucretia

Ubbquittious wrote: »

But it helps the upgrade cycle I suppose. The tech starts getting seriously dated after about 5 years and that will bring consumers back to the dealer for a new one.

I doubt it even does that. The step change is physical buttons to smart screens. But, like the transition to smartphones, there is no real step change after that, and to most consumers, a 5 year old smart phone looks and does the same stuff as a new one today despite the manufacturers trying to hype the benefits of faster processors or pixels a quarter the size than those the human eye can distinguish anyway.
There is either with smartscreen, or without (and pretty much none will be without). Upgrading software versions, or added dubious new 'features' will only be the stuff for geeks rather than the real consumer.

Ubbquittious

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I doubt it even does that. The step change is physical buttons to smart screens. But, like the transition to smartphones, there is no real step change after that, and to most consumers, a 5 year old smart phone looks and does the same stuff as a new one today despite the manufacturers trying to hype the benefits of faster processors or pixels a quarter the size than those the human eye can distinguish anyway.
There is either with smartscreen, or without (and pretty much none will be without). Upgrading software versions, or added dubious new 'features' will only be the stuff for geeks rather than the real consumer.

The normal consumer will notice when software bloat and firmware "improvements" will make it slow. Suddenly it will take 5 seconds for your heating controls to load

grogi

Ubbquittious wrote: »

The normal consumer will notice when software bloat and firmware "improvements" will make it slow. Suddenly it will take 5 seconds for your heating controls to load

Displaying a new tyre place commercial in between...

grogi

grogi wrote: »

Displaying a new tyre place commercial in between...

But sure you'll be able to upgrade to Pro for only €11.99 a month. Not only getting rid of ads, but also includes unlimited use of AirCon.

(not to be confused with the 'Elite' package, which unlocks Cruise Control and Auto Wipers for only €19.99 per month).

Ubbquittious

Deleted User wrote: »

But sure you'll be able to upgrade to Pro for only €11.99 a month. Not only getting rid of ads, but also includes unlimited use of AirCon.

(not to be confused with the 'Elite' package, which unlocks Cruise Control and Auto Wipers for only €19.99 per month).

Thats the dream all of these tech companies are chasing. A monthly income from a system that runs itself so they can live a party life.in Barbados or sit on their holes in NY while this thing brings in the moolah

kyote00

future calls to "AA" will go like:

Ring Ring
Me: car won't start
AA: Did you try control-alt-delete ?

kirving

From a manufacturing standpoint, (and reliability too), I'd choose a touch screen every time.

Buttons and switches cost much more, are more difficult to manufacture, and to test, and have more moving parts to go wrong.

For example, a robot in a factory to test a screen (if they even do it) would just need a capacitive pen and XYZ motion stage to drag the pen around the screen.

I've seen 6-axis articulated robots with ridiculously complex grippers (ie: €000'000's) on the end used just to test the indicator stalk assembly. Similarly complex robots are needed to test all the switches etc. on the dashboard. The expense feeds all the way back to the machines used to manufacture, assemble and test the unit. The less moving parts the better.

Me though, I'd choose a switch over a screen any day of the week.

troyzer

The problem isn't so much the touchscreen. The problem is car touchscreens tend to be incredibly slow and unresponsive and they shove nearly EVERYTHING into it.

If it was faster and more responsive and it only had nerdy stuff buried into, I'd have no issues.

Del2005

troyzer wrote: »

The problem isn't so much the touchscreen. The problem is car touchscreens tend to be incredibly slow and unresponsive and they shove nearly EVERYTHING into it.

If it was faster and more responsive and it only had nerdy stuff buried into, I'd have no issues.

I've a touch screen in my 9 year old car and it's neither slow or unresponsive. It's got the sat nav, air con, phone and audio.

Now my voice controls on the other hand are useless. All I can do is pick a temperature and then only some it understands, any another command doesn't work. I somehow managed to add golf courses to my POI when trying a command, took me ages to figure out how to remove it.

micks_address

i like the setup in my Octavia, large touch screen but pretty much everything can be controlled from the steering wheel, also has physical dials for setting climate control temp. Also the sat nav has turn by turn on a screen just between the speedo and rev counter.. its a lot more intuitive than having to look at the nav screen.. handy to know what the upcoming maneuver is without changing your line of sight from the road. I used to use my phone for navigation in previous cars going to all the bother with mounts and apps for maps etc.. now its all on the infotainment screen.. just plug in the phone and slide it into the phone compartment and forget about it.. I use android auto for spotify streaming and its pretty neat.. can use 'ok google' voice commands to search for tracks etc..
Whatever about touchscreens im still amazed by the numbers of people driving holding a phone up to their ear.. in what looks like relatively new cars.. I would have thought most cars would have Bluetooth of some description in the car by now..

ShadowHearth

My car is still a bit old in design, but with modern refresh. Stuff like android auto is just a must from now on after I got it in my car.

I do agree. Touchscreen is a pain in a hole sometimes and now and then I need to poke my screen few times before I manage to hit that small "play" button on the screen.
On the other hand, heater controls and such are still all physical buttons which is great.
So I kind of have best of both worlds.

Thing is though, this whole phone connectivity with your car is my favorite advance in car industry. Why would you spend thousands on satnav options when you can use google maps with android auto. Your phone is your car interface. Brilliant.

sjb25

micks_address wrote: »

i like the setup in my Octavia, large touch screen but pretty much everything can be controlled from the steering wheel, also has physical dials for setting climate control temp. Also the sat nav has turn by turn on a screen just between the speedo and rev counter.. its a lot more intuitive than having to look at the nav screen.. handy to know what the upcoming maneuver is without changing your line of sight from the road. I used to use my phone for navigation in previous cars going to all the bother with mounts and apps for maps etc.. now its all on the infotainment screen.. just plug in the phone and slide it into the phone compartment and forget about it.. I use android auto for spotify streaming and its pretty neat.. can use 'ok google' voice commands to search for tracks etc..
Whatever about touchscreens im still amazed by the numbers of people driving holding a phone up to their ear.. in what looks like relatively new cars.. I would have thought most cars would have Bluetooth of some description in the car by now..

More or less the same set up in my mondeo have my touchscreen but most of the time everything can be done from steering weel when driving

micks_address

ShadowHearth wrote: »

My car is still a bit old in design, but with modern refresh. Stuff like android auto is just a must from now on after I got it in my car.

I do agree. Touchscreen is a pain in a hole sometimes and now and then I need to poke my screen few times before I manage to hit that small "play" button on the screen.
On the other hand, heater controls and such are still all physical buttons which is great.
So I kind of have best of both worlds.

Thing is though, this whole phone connectivity with your car is my favorite advance in car industry. Why would you spend thousands on satnav options when you can use google maps with android auto. Your phone is your car interface. Brilliant.

id agree with you for the most part than android auto and google maps is class... where the built in nav still has the slight edge for me is around speed limits...  I wish google maps would show speed limits.. and warn when over..  I wouldn't have bought built in nav but it came with my car spec so happy enough to have it.. we used it a lot while driving in france back in july

DaveyDave

I haven't used a touchscreen on a car except for a Golf test drive and the Mustang rental I had. Both of them have separate controls for climate and steering wheel controls for music and phone.

The Golf would be used with Android Auto and Spotify. I wouldn't interact with it except at a stop, where I'd change playlist or a specific artist otherwise I'd use the controls on the steering wheel. Even if I wanted to change the climate I generally will only change the temperature and fan speed on the go, when stopped change it to feet or windscreen or turn AC on.

It's the responsibility of the driver to not mess around with the screens on the go and get distracted, I do believe it's as bad as messing with your phone while driving. Sure, it makes it easier to get distracted but it's down to the driver to just not use it while driving. You don't have to use it while driving at all. The likes of Android Auto limit the amount of presses to 6 to prevent use while driving and in Japan as far as I know it's 4.

grogi

micks_address wrote: »

id agree with you for the most part than android auto and google maps is class... where the built in nav still has the slight edge for me is around speed limits...  I wish google maps would show speed limits.. and warn when over..  I wouldn't have bought built in nav but it came with my car spec so happy enough to have it.. we used it a lot while driving in france back in july

Doesn't it?

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/09/13/google-maps-speed-limits-start-showing-driving-android-auto/

ShadowHearth

grogi wrote: »

Doesn't it?

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/09/13/google-maps-speed-limits-start-showing-driving-android-auto/

Thats another reason I love android auto and touchscreens. Your updates are in your phone. It updates itself and I dont need to update anything in car. Phone up to date? Car up to date.
Its still earlyish stage and it only will expand.

Henry Ford III

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pluscubed.velociraptor&hl=en

This works pretty well too.

micks_address

grogi wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

id agree with you for the most part than android auto and google maps is class... where the built in nav still has the slight edge for me is around speed limits...  I wish google maps would show speed limits.. and warn when over..  I wouldn't have bought built in nav but it came with my car spec so happy enough to have it.. we used it a lot while driving in france back in july

Doesn't it?

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/09/13/google-maps-speed-limits-start-showing-driving-android-auto/

Doesn't show on mine.. anyone else have it working? Ive a feeling its a US feature...

ShadowHearth

LIGHTNING wrote: »

In a dreamworld it is! Look at the reports stats of Android handsets and there a very large percentage of users running very old builds. Plus you are at the mercy of the operators in most cases. Don't get me started on Android malware either.... Think I'll keep my car away from that.

Also don't get me started on how car manufactures care so little about infosec in there cars.

No to sound very rude, but the hell you on about m8?

I dont have latest flashiest phone, its H P9 and its up to date on whatever it needs set by manufacturer. If people choose to use 7 year old android phones, then more power to them, but I dont see why it should be supported heavily by manufacturer when phones outdate so fast and become so much faster.
I use android auto for the last 3 months and never had any issues. Spotify works great, google maps exelents, making phones calls and receiving them perfectly fine. All up to date.
The only thing I would love, that they would add viber support. Me and misses communicative only using viber.