1 Galway councillor suggests removal of memorial to Irish Confederate Major

Wombatman

A Galway Councillor says he wants to see a memorial on Tuam Town Hall to an Irish confederate removed.

Could Tuam be the next Charlottesville?

http://www.thejournal.ie/major-dick-dowling-memorial-tuan-town-hall-3554975-Aug2017/

The_Valeyard

Stupid councillor jumping on the US bandwagon. Completely pointless and just trying to grab headlines.

Arsemageddon

Sham lives matter!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

So, the thread title is completely wrong. One independent councillor says it should be removed. The council has not said it was removing it. No other councillors have supported this one guy.

The_Valeyard

Addilyn Drab Turnpike wrote: »

So, the thread title is completely wrong. One independent councillor says it should be removed. The council has not said it was removing it. No other councillors have supported this one guy.

Well, they have the backing of the mighty TheJournal.ie


Seriously is there any trend that they dont try attach themselves onto?

WesternZulu

If there is ever a place to put an undignified statue it's Tuam.

Nermal

I vote we destroy all Greek and Roman statuary too, they were a bit too keen on slavery for my liking...

Ken.

Mod-Thread title altered to reflect the truth. OP no click bait titles please.

corner of hells

Conspectus wrote: »

Mod-Thread title altered to reflect the truth. OP no click bait titles please.

As c'mon, why do we always have to reflect the truth.Why can't we just be like everyone else.
Can we not just have a little propaganda and spoof , just once ?

Sweet Jesus how long did yer man spend trawling the internet looking for something to be offended by before he settled for this nonsense? Nothing else needs to be fixed anywhere in Galway then I suppose :rolleyes:

Well there's a statue of the Irish republican and Nazi collaborator, Seán Russell, in Fairview Park.

Hashtag StandWithFairview, Hashtag Triggered.

MyStubbleItches

Wombatman wrote: »

A Galway Councillor says he wants to see a memorial on Tuam Town Hall to an Irish confederate removed.

Could Tuam be the next Charlottesville?

http://www.thejournal.ie/major-dick-dowling-memorial-tuan-town-hall-3554975-Aug2017/

Pure bandwagonning obviously and hashtag crap but just imagine if the other side won.

Atlantic Dawn

The media is very funny, one minute they are showing outrage against ISIS for destroying historic statues, now they are supporting the destruction of similarly controversial statues.

oppenheimer1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Well there's a statue of the Irish republican and Nazi collaborator, SeRussell, in Fairview Park.

Hashtag StandWithFairview, Hashtag Triggered.

That statue has been decapitated at least once if not more.

Victor

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The media

Has "the media" advocated either way?

Poor Uncle Tom

Every band wagon attracts the attention seekers, when one rolls by they try to be the first to climb to the top and shout down to people...

lazybones32

The most used media sources in ireland are so damn predictable. Tomorrows news will have an article on Trump, Charlottesville and an op-ed that is so far up its authors hole, that i cant think of a fittingly witty end to it. And gender, either how young girls are kicking boys asses in education or that the system is patriarchially favouring boys to succeed in subjects that males generally thrive in.

What has this to do with a statue and a galway servant/representative? News websites have become an extension of twitter and fb.

oppenheimer1

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

That statue has been decapitated at least once if not more.

I didn't know that.

Was it repaired? By whom?

Rumpy Pumpy

Did they ever erect that statue of Guevara in Galway?

Don’t know much about this Tuam dude, but I presume he did awful things.

Guevara was a mass-murdering sociopath, but he appears to be still very much in vogue for rage against the machine types.

Good for the goose is good for the gander, and all that.

suicide_circus

The best thing to do with history is to cover it up and bury it. That way people forget it and don't make the same mistakes. Right?

Your Face

As a reader of History, I find this behaviour worrying.

TerrorFirmer

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The media is very funny, one minute they are showing outrage against ISIS for destroying historic statues, now they are supporting the destruction of similarly controversial statues.

Well to be fair, they're not advocating their destruction in general, just removal from public buildings to more appropriate places, museums or whatever.

Not saying I agree but comparisons with Islamic State are a bit over dramatic.

biko

Shaun Cunniffe - "The whole point of the Confederate war was to support slavery in the South.”

This is only a half truth.
The primary reason for the south seceding from the Union was to protect the right to own slaves.
But the primary interest of the north was to maintain the United States as a single, undivided country.

The US founders George Washington Thomas Jefferson James Madison themselves owned slaves so it wasn't like it was a new issue beat down by the northern states.

lazybones32

biko wrote: »

Shaun Cunniffe - "The whole point of the Confederate war was to support slavery in the South.”

This is only a half truth.
The primary reason for the south seceding from the Union was to protect the right to own slaves.
But the primary interest of the north was to maintain the United States as a single, undivided country.

The US founders George Washington Thomas Jefferson James Madison themselves owned slaves so it wasn't like it was a new issue beat down by the northern states.

If i could save the union without freeing any slave, i would do it and if i could save it by freeing all slaves i would do it; and if i could save it by freeing some and leaving others, i would also do that - Abraham Lincoln.

Maintaining the Union was the priority, not slavery.

Ninthlife

As a society we are turning into a right bunch of sensitive assholes..

Lets remove statues and not talk about historical facts as it might upset someone.

Lets not have a gender in case it upsets someone

Lets remove christian symbolism in a christian country in case it upsets someone

Lets remove flags as it upsets someone.

I hate to tell all these easily offended people but things happened in the past that were pretty horrific. People owned slaves but slavery was abolished and we have moved on its history its over you are all a couple of hundred years too late with the outrage.

Alot of people need to grow up and stop taking offense to nonsensical things just to look like you give a ****.

nice_guy80

The Celts (or that group of peoples) were the worst feckers for slavery

we're all culpable

Benjamin Buttons

Conspectus wrote: »

Mod-Thread title altered to reflect the truth. OP no click bait titles please.

You'll be amazed at what passes for 'click bait' in Ireland. No not scantily clad young ladies and how they are just dying to meet you, or tips on how to earn €350,000 an hour from home whilst paring your fingernails, oh no.....it's something called... ''Galway County Council''.
All true according to the Mods on 'boards.ie'...click here to find out more and how your life can change in an instant....

lazybones32

nice_guy80 wrote: »

The Celts (or that group of peoples) were the worst feckers for slavery

we're all culpable

No, our ancestors might have been culpable but i'm not. Kind of like how most Germans alive now aren't culpable for that thing that never happened☺

The_Valeyard

lazybones32 wrote: »

No, our ancestors might have been culpable but i'm not. Kind of like how most Germans alive now aren't culpable for that thing that never happened☺

Victor

Ninthlife wrote: »

As a society we are turning into a right bunch of sensitive assholes..

That's interesting, because there are a lot of offensive, malicious and dangerous assholes out there also.

snowflaker

Ninthlife wrote: »

As a society we are turning into a right bunch of sensitive assholes..

Lets remove statues and not talk about historical facts as it might upset someone.

Lets not have a gender in case it upsets someone

Lets remove christian symbolism in a christian country in case it upsets someone

Lets remove flags as it upsets someone.

I hate to tell all these easily offended people but things happened in the past that were pretty horrific. People owned slaves but slavery was abolished and we have moved on its history its over you are all a couple of hundred years too late with the outrage.

Alot of people need to grow up and stop taking offense to nonsensical things just to look like you give a ****.

Which Christian Country do you speak of? Ireland is an independent republic.
Imagine being a country ruled by religious laws...

whisky_galore

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The media is very funny, one minute they are showing outrage against ISIS for destroying historic statues, now they are supporting the destruction of similarly controversial statues.

How were the ISIS-destroyed monuments controversial?

Not really comparing like with like?

conorhal

whisky_galore wrote: »

How were the ISIS-destroyed monuments controversial?

Not really comparing like with like?

They were controvertial to the ideological extremists in Isis that took offence to them as heritical, I bit like the ideological extremists demanding the removal of Nelson's Column in London. All that's required it seems is for entitled mouthy individuals to feel offended. All these eejits should be told to piss off, history doesn't need to be consored.

topper75

I would love to have heard Major Dick's accent.

Was it like Confederacaaaaay, Nawleens?

Or was it Wesht?

Was it a deadly, heretofore unheard of, blend of the two?

Ride on aboard your valiant steed into the sunset Major Dick with the stars and bars and maroon and white aflutter in the wind. We will always cherish you, even though we only heard of you 3 minutes ago.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

TheDoc

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Stupid councillor jumping on the US bandwagon. Completely pointless and just trying to grab headlines.

I think this guy is actually being sensible about it and how it should be dealt with.

History is history, you can't remove someone from it. He will be well documented about and his travels and actions accounted in numerous documents,books etc.

But there is no issue with a community wanting to reshape their landscape, to remove what is inappropriate now, or what shouldn't be tolerated now. That he commends the important of the person in terms of the local heritage and his actions, he was still a confederate officer, and its possibly better served somewhere else, not on a town hall, a symbol of state and service to all citizens.

Actually think this guy has gone about it sensibly to generate a discussion, and if the majority of the local community agree then it should be relocated.

Surprised to see that people are immediately assuming he is a bandwagon jumper or "how long did it take him to get offended". Part of civilisation and progression is us revaluating as a society, what we deem as appropriate monuments or trophies of celebration, and what we no longer deem appropriate or fitting. Whatever about the actions in America, it has very much brought to light a discussion about celebrating men in statue who fought in a civil war, to maintain slavery and ensure their pockets were kept lined, and fought not solely for, but as one principle that black people were not equal.

It's cool that people assume its all snowflakey or whatever, but then we don't have statues of Cromwell knocking about, or celebratory plaques commemorating Black and Tan officers. We have had our own cleansing and resculpting over the years, but maybe if we had some statues or those that imposed famine, or brutality knocking about, we might be a bit more empathetic? We are somewhat in the luxury of not having this divide, whereby we generally will all weight in behind significant reshaping of our history and celebrations.

Where we might get touchy, is if we have groups wanting to remove celebratory monuments,statues or remembrance of Michael Collins and the likes because he was deemed X, or Éamon de Valera because he was Y

Cervantes2

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That number is wrong it was around 20,000.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Not forgetting Irish v Irish like at Fredericksburg in Dec 1862 when the 24th Georgia Reg came up against Thomas Meaghers Irish Brigade. The 24th Georgia's flag is shown in the opening credits of the film 'Gods and Generals'.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Which says nothing about whether or not people who fought to treat human beings like cattle should be honoured as war heroes.

Jurgen Klopp

Nermal wrote: »

I vote we destroy all Greek and Roman statuary too, they were a bit too keen on slavery for my liking...

Here kid we must tackle the pyramids of Egypt first they were mad for the old slave labour when building them along with most of their ancient artifacts

In fact we must tackle the Great Wall of China too, the workers weren't doing that via a Government scheme either

Then again the Chinese aren't a bunch of soft ****s so would probably shove our placards up our holes during our protests

ToddyDoody

This is why Galway keeps winning council of the year.

Nettle Soup

I bet most people in Tuam didn't know about this memorial.

SEPT 23 1989

Why is history being deleted?

Are those who do this really that unsure of themselves and their ideology?

Victor

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Here kid we must tackle the pyramids of Egypt first they were mad for the old slave labour when building them along with most of their ancient artifacts

Here's one I prepared earlier.

In fact we must tackle the Great Wall of China too, the workers weren't doing that via a Government scheme either

Not a monument.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Why is history being deleted?

Other that Jurgen Klopp above and his ilk, it isn't. Have you heard of books?

Academic

Victor wrote: »

[...] Have you heard of books?

Exactly. Books are a woefully underappreciated resource on boards.ie, a fact which explains a lot about the level of discourse often encountered here.

A Battered Mars Bar

Never smoke fly never dope dry

Maybe I'm naive but I was genuinely surprised to discover that there were so many statues dedicated to Confederate figures left standing in the USA. I thought they would have all been torn down years ago.

On the one hand, to remove this memorial solely on the basis of the Charlottesville debacle seem a bit bandwagony, particularly as it conforms to an Americanised idea of acceptability in an age where American (and/or British) identity politics dominate the world and impose a standard for all others to blindly follow. But at the end of the day. are we really losing anything of historical significance by removing it? Or do we benefit anyway by leaving it up?
Removing statues/monuments does not "erase history", as much as the right wing outrage-porn aficionados may want to believe; there will still be books and other resources to recount history and its horrors. You don't need a big ugly statue of Cromwell to know that he existed, so why leave relics to Confederate figures?

Tbh I suspect that most people who would be annoyed at this memorial being removed are merely contrarians who otherwise wouldn't have even known the memorial existed in the first place.

Galwayguy35

He's an idiot, the people who voted him in are also idiots but hopefully they have seen the error of their ways now.

TBH the travellers pose more of a risk to the place than this random bronze plaque.

I vote we remove the travellers.

Hector Savage

Tear down the Egyptian Pyramids...

JPCN1

I think FG should tear down any statues of anti treaty FF types whilst in power. Then FF retaliate and tear down any to Pro Treaty types before the Shinners get into power. They can be left with changing all the street names and while they're it maybe Trinity College and Georgian Dublin for the chop. Anything with a Saint in the title gone obviously and when the greens get in we'll be tearing down the whole lot.
Fun times ahead in the brave new world.