Technology versus Privacy

JupiterKid

I'm sure many here are deeply concerned about the use of internet social media to detail aspects of people's lives. I watched a recent film called The Circle starring Emma Watson and Tom Hanks. It was a pretty weak and shallow film with 0 character development but nonetheless was deeply disturbing. Every detail of people's lives recorded, complete invasion of privacy and the company ethos of "sharing is caring." Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Now, this film was pretty over-simplistic, extreme and contrived, but it did send a strong message that society is in danger of being strangled by social media unless we have strong checks and balances in the system. Is it right to record every significant detail of people's lives on social media?

Facebook was the obvious target of this film. I'm seriously giving thought to closing my Facebook account. I value my privacy.

Thoughts?

Wexfordboy89

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm sure many here are deeply concerned about the use of internet social media to detail aspects of people's lives. I watched a recent film called The Circle starring Emma Watson and Tom Hanks. It was deeply disturbing. Every detail of people's lives recorded, complete invasion of privacy and the company ethos of "sharing is caring." Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Now, this film was pretty over-simplistic and contrived, but it did send a strong message that society is in danger of being strangled by social media unless we have strong checks and balances in the system. Is it right to record every significant detail of people's lives on social media?

Facebook was the obvious target of this film. I'm seriously giving thought to closing my Facebook account. I value my privacy.

Thoughts?

You do know that even when u close your Facebook account its still technically open.all your info pics are all still saved incase you reopen your account.at least that used to be the way unless they changed it

Jesus Wept

I do like that Tom Hanks though.

The_Valeyard

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm sure many here are deeply concerned about the use of internet social media to detail aspects of people's lives. I watched a recent film called The Circle starring Emma Watson and Tom Hanks. It was a pretty weak and shallow film with 0 character development but nonetheless was deeply disturbing. Every detail of people's lives recorded, complete invasion of privacy and the company ethos of "sharing is caring." Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Now, this film was pretty over-simplistic, extreme and contrived, but it did send a strong message that society is in danger of being strangled by social media unless we have strong checks and balances in the system. Is it right to record every significant detail of people's lives on social media?

Facebook was the obvious target of this film. I'm seriously giving thought to closing my Facebook account. I value my privacy.

Thoughts?

So you wouldnt recommend the film so?

Ted_YNWA

JupiterKid wrote:

Is it right to record every significant detail of people's lives on social media?

It is the users that post every aspect of their lives to social media.

Personal responsibility comes into it.

Anesthetize

It doesn't make sense to restrict technology to protect peoples privacy. What's needed is more education on using restraint and a bit of cop-on when posting stuff on social media. Granted that Facebook's privacy features are a bit shady. But if people feel like their privacy is being violated on social media, I would just stop posting crap instead of blaming the technology.

Imallrightjack

You have a good point op.the thing that baffles me is people/family's putting pics up on Facebook look at us we are on holidays in sunny wonderful Spain.......meanwhile the burglars are taking a **** in their front living room.
Its madness

Ted_YNWA

Imallrightjack wrote: »

You have a good point op.the thing that baffles me is people/family's putting pics up on Facebook look at us we are on holidays in sunny wonderful Spain.......meanwhile the burglars are taking a **** in their front living room.
Its madness

You can also easily get people address, DOB, mother's maiden name, pets names.

This is all willing posted by people to (often) open profiles that can be viewed by anyone.

Peregrinus

Anesthetize wrote: »

It doesn't make sense to restrict technology to protect peoples privacy. What's needed is more education on using restraint and a bit of cop-on when posting stuff on social media. Granted that Facebook's privacy features are a bit shady. But if people feel like their privacy is being violated on social media, I would just stop posting crap instead of blaming the technology.

The OP doesn't blame the technology or suggest restricting it.

Rubberlegs

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

It is the users that post every aspect of their lives to social media.

Personal responsibility comes into it.

Totally agree with this. I deactivated my account over a year ago as I started to really dislike Facebook. I was only on it for the funny stuff, I could count on one hand and still have fingers leftover the amount of times I shared a photo of the kids or tagged myself somewhere.
Some people treat it like their own personal reality show that they seem to think everyone else is enthralled with. It is up to you entirely what you do or don't share, you make your own privacy. Incidentally, deactivating your account is futile if you have no willpower as all you have to do is log back in to reactivate it.

Hercule Poirot

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm sure many here are deeply concerned about the use of internet social media to detail aspects of people's lives. I watched a recent film called The Circle starring Emma Watson and Tom Hanks. It was a pretty weak and shallow film with 0 character development but nonetheless was deeply disturbing. Every detail of people's lives recorded, complete invasion of privacy and the company ethos of "sharing is caring." Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Now, this film was pretty over-simplistic, extreme and contrived, but it did send a strong message that society is in danger of being strangled by social media unless we have strong checks and balances in the system. Is it right to record every significant detail of people's lives on social media?

Facebook was the obvious target of this film. I'm seriously giving thought to closing my Facebook account. I value my privacy.

Thoughts?

Watch Black Mirror: Nosedive, an indication of where we might be in twenty year's time.....

Peregrinus

73Cat wrote: »

Totally agree with this. I deactivated my account over a year ago as I started to really dislike Facebook. I was only on it for the funny stuff, I could count on one hand and still have fingers leftover the amount of times I shared a photo of the kids or tagged myself somewhere.
Some people treat it like their own personal reality show that they seem to think everyone else is enthralled with. It is up to you entirely what you do or don't share, you make your own privacy. Incidentally, deactivating your account is futile if you have no willpower as all you have to do is log back in to reactivate it.

This. Deactivating your Facebook account is not the same thing as deleting it. Facebook offers both options, but only deletion will (if they are to be believed) lead to the irretrievable deletion of your data. And it may take up to three months for this to be completed.

Fred Swanson

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Peregrinus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

According to Facebook's own information, "it may take up to 90 days from the beginning of the deletion process to delete all of the things you've posted, like your photos, status updates or other data stored in backup systems".

Fred Swanson

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Hector Savage

OP you should check out Black Mirror if you really wanna be frightened by the negatives of technology.

moonlighting

Really at the end of the day you have only yourself to blame for uploading personal data online. as a programmer i can tell you guys that your data can be kept in a hard-drive on a server for years. also lots of server backups are made so if your data is deleted. there could be still a backup somewhere.
i worked for a social media company and can tell you they treat the server rooms like gold. with all the security and access its like they are protecting gold. that's how valuable your data is to them. so here you are giving them all your data for free and they are turning it into gold. (i know its a metaphor but its the best example i could think of)

Peregrinus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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The account is gone, but the data exists. And the fact that you can't get access to it doesn't mean that nobody else can't either. Facebook, presumably, can, since they control the backups and can access them.

Wibbs

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nope. Or at least not always. I have two friends(real life ones) who deleted their Facebook account and both appeared to be gone and as you note they couldn't access their page after a couple of weeks(in one case after a couple of days).

However, a few months down the line and their accounts started showing up in their Facebook "friends" emails of "people you might know". If the original account holders tried to log in their page wasn't there, but if the recipient of those emails clicked on the link there it was. And yes both didn't just deactivate, they followed Facebook's own instructions to delete their accounts. Both contacted Facebook directly over this.

For fun and frolics I tried to see the pages this very morning. If I do a name search within Facebook it get nada, but again if I go via the "people you may know" link in the emails from Facebook I get a result. One appears to be gone. For the moment. The other is still there.

Fred Swanson

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jacksie66

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Peregrinus

Well, yes, as users of Ashley Madison famously discovered the hard way, even if you pay a social media operator to delete your information and they assure they will, they may not. Far be it from me to suggest that Facebook are as sloppy as Ashley Madison were. But how do I know they aren't?

As far as I understand it, the deal with Facebook (that you checked a box to agree to) is that the information you give them belongs to them, not you. And while they may offer to delete it, if push came to shove they'd probably deny that they were obliged to delete it, or had any liability to you if they didn't delete it.

Look, I assume that most businesses, most of the time, try to behave in a reasonable and honest fashion and that, if they say they'll delete your data, they do intend to delete it. But I also assume that, whether through (frequently) poor design or poor operation of systems, or (occasionally) a bit of ethical corner-cutting, there will be cases where data doesn't get deleted.

Which, yeah, means we should all be careful as individuals not to put personal information on the internet unless we accept that, when we do, we lose control over it.

But it also means that, as a community, we do need to think about regulatory regimes for how personal information is handled by those to whom it is entrusted, and about acccountability of social media outfits to their customers. It's perfectly right and proper to tell people that they should look both ways before crossing the road, but that doesn't mean we don't need laws about speed limits and motor insurance.

Heisenbug

All well and good deleting Facebook, but they're a drop in the ocean. Use any Google services? Even Microsoft or Apple? All part of NSA's PRISM program.

If you truly want privacy, set up your own mail server, use VPN's to browse, don't use any of the big search engines, don't use a regular smart phone - you'll need Android without Google service - F-Droid is what you'd use to download apps etc.

Another thing, apps - they use a lot of your info so be careful what you download.

Me? I couldn't be bothered with all that and just use whatever I need be it Google docs, Gmail, iCloud...whatever.

moonlighting

here is your google history
https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity

even more data including all locations you have been
https://myactivity.google.com/more-activity

Permabear

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me_irl

This guy went and deleted his fb and instagram accounts (with links)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyvbgm_jBU

And because he has a few contacts, he followed up to confirm that his "live" profile was deleted, that his friends can no longer see him and to make sure all backups were gone too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnvbvL8oB60

mahamageehad

The book was well worth a read, shame they made a hames of the film!

It's perfectly possible to use technology while maintaining your privacy. Funnily enough, most people I've talked with about use of VPNs or Tor to enhance privacy assumed that I must be doing something I "need to hide". I think people need to be a little better educated about privacy and its implications to be honest.

A Belgian bank did an excellent ad on this a while back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7pYHN9iC9I

Wibbs

moonlighting wrote: »

here is your google history
https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity

even more data including all locations you have been
https://myactivity.google.com/more-activity

I get "no activity" on both. Then again I've long been suspicious of the big data mining crowd, so try to keep my footprint to a minimum.

mahamageehad

Wibbs wrote: »

I get "no activity" on both. Then again I've long been suspicious of the big data mining crowd, so try to keep my footprint to a minimum.

I just get my YouTube video searches which is encouraging.

Malayalam

The age of privacy is dead. People scapegoat facebook or social media. They are just the tip of the iceberg. Every product you buy is bar coded and then your chip and pin card links you to your shopping so the details of your shopping habits are recorded somewhere. There are digital cameras in public areas and offices, shops, schools etc., and soon facial recognition tech will be incorporated everywhere. A lot of new products like TVs and phones and even kids digital toys have tracking type technology, so your every move, perhaps even your private chats at home can be accessed. If you were to buy a computer and never go online, but maybe register it for guarantee and support purposes, who is to say the device cannot be used to monitor the contents of your hard drive? Drones are going to be more commonplace too, people were a bit freaked out about them at one point until we realised there is pretty much nothing you can do about it. So, we are all under the kosh. Even if one lived ''off grid'', in the boonies, with no tech, one could not be assured of privacy.

moonlighting

What amazed me was the data they had on the locations i have been around the world. exact hotel locations. scary stuff. I know google stores your search data but didn't expect all the extra data as-well.

erica74

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

It is the users that post every aspect of their lives to social media.

Personal responsibility comes into it.

This.
If you don't want it stored somewhere online, don't put it online. If you want to use technology (and I mean technology, not social media, because as soon as you start up a brand new phone/laptop and put in your email account, that's the beginning of your footprint) then you need to make your peace with technology companies having your information.

Permabear

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Neon_Lights

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

You do know that even when u close your Facebook account its still technically open.all your info pics are all still saved incase you reopen your account.at least that used to be the way unless they changed it

Gdpr will change that in Europe anyway

Malayalam

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I don't have a smart phone just the old fashioned push button yoke, I have a private facebook account with no friends just so i can follow things of interest to me, I did not upgrade to windows 10, I don't share private details online although yep my family photos are on my hard drive and a hacker would probably be able to get them, I end up having to use my card as I live in a very rural area and the nearest cash machine is 20 miles away - I can only presume a cashless society is near at hand. I don't shrug my shoulders, I say what I feel like online. I just know it is recorded, for all the good it does whoever has to wade through the awesome oceans of data stored about us all. Good luck to them. I hope they enjoy it.

acronym Chilli

erica74 wrote: »

This.
If you don't want it stored somewhere online, don't put it online. If you want to use technology (and I mean technology, not social media, because as soon as you start up a brand new phone/laptop and put in your email account, that's the beginning of your footprint) then you need to make your peace with technology companies having your information.

There are degrees of it though. And if you put your mind to it you can keep your foot print small and predominantly non-corporate. However, you will not be as connected as otherwise.

MOH

moonlighting wrote: »

What amazed me was the data they had on the locations i have been around the world. exact hotel locations. scary stuff. I know google stores your search data but didn't expect all the extra data as-well.

Google parses all your emails to "help" you. Including attachments. So if you had flight or hotel confirmation bookings sent to gmail, that's where it comes from.

A friend had problems with her printer earlier this year, downloaded her boarding pass as a PDF and sent it to me to print out and post back to her (don't ask, it was the easiest solution).

The day before the flight my Android phone helpfully popped up a notification that "my" flight was leaving in 14 hours. Checked back through the messages and the only mention of the flight details was in that boarding pass attachment.

And I'm generally pretty paranoid, I've got most of the privacy settings locked down, but stuff's still shared between apps. (Although possibly naively, I've still got location history turned on. I don't trust Google not to retain the data anyway even if I turn it off, so I figure I may as well get some benefit from it).

Heisenbug

Google are actually going to stop 'parsing' mails in Gmail. Even for free accounts.

I'm unable to post links.

Wibbs

moonlighting wrote: »

What amazed me was the data they had on the locations i have been around the world. exact hotel locations. scary stuff. I know google stores your search data but didn't expect all the extra data as-well.

Switch off location services on all devices/apps. Including - and most forget this one - digital cameras. Avoid Google as much as possible. Use other search engines, avoid gmail like the very plague.

Go for an old style phone. If you have to go smart phone again avoid Google. Apple may be a pain in the hole, but even the slightest scandal with them gets well publicised unlike with Android. The latter is far less secure and more hacked and tracked. Plus having an "air gap" between your phone and other services is a good bet. If all your crap, phone, search, mail is on Google you're boned.

Set Facebook to maximum security if you need it for close mates/family. Otherwise avoid it. It's mostly sh anyway.

Have very different usernames/accounts tied to different email accounts for every account you have online. Have slightly different date of births on all accounts. Use the Irish version of your name from time to time. Change passwords regularly.

Don't use cloud services. You wanna back up your stuff? Big external hard drives are cheap.

Post nothing on the internet you wouldn't want publicly viewable. Remember the scandal where Hollywood starlets got hacked and their bums and boobs ended up online? There are no pictures of my mickey on the internet, because I don't take pictures of my mickey and put them on the internet. Simples.

MOH

Heisenbug wrote: »

Google are actually going to stop 'parsing' mails in Gmail. Even for free accounts.

I'm unable to post links.

I've seen numerous stories that they won't read emails for ad-targeting purposes, but it's less clear whether they'll actually stop reading them.

http://variety.com/2017/digital/news/google-gmail-ads-emails-1202477321/

JupiterKid

Some interesting points raised here. It seems like Google is as bad a culprit - if not worse - as FB for privacy invasion and data mining. I'm not a Luddite and will not countenance going completely offline (I mean here I am posting on an online forum so that would be pretty ironic and indeed hypocritical) but I will take many of the aforementioned suggestions on board.

Facebook seems to be all about people feeling the need to share details about their families and their personal lives, but there are many of my FB "friends" who keep posting and sharing to a minimum. I suppose we indeed are culpable in all this creeping data and privacy intrusion if we keep posting up things online.

Anywho, I see a big backlash against this tech-driven privacy invasion in the coming years. People just don't realise how much about their personal lives are stored away by social media and internet companies and the more films like The Circle, the better. It's just a shame The Circle was such a weak film.

Wibbs

JupiterKid wrote: »

Some interesting points raised here. It seems like Google is as bad a culprit - if not worse - as FB for privacy invasion and data mining.

IMH Google are way worse. If you plug into their ecosystem(google search, gmail, android, chrome, cloud storage). If you do they know what subjects you search for, what websites you visit, your likely sexual orientation(at least what you jack off to), how many apps you install and which ones, where you live, what your gaff looks like, your likely political affiliations, where you eat, what you tend to buy, where you go, what you watch, a recording of your actual voice for voice commands, who you talk to online and how many conversations you've had with them, your images(and other people tagged in them and where you took them) and so on. Hell, if you're dumb enough to give them your genetic code so you can find out your ancestry then they even have your personal how to build you plan.

The potential power they have is staggering and that's just today. This stuff is rapidly changing on a weekly basis. Think back just ten years and compare and contrast. Now imagine this in another ten, another twenty. Knowledge has always been power, but never before has so much knowledge about so many been in the hands of so few. Do you really want the Sheldon Coopers that run Google to have such power? Some of the stuff the heads of that place and others have come out with is worrying. never mind when AI's get involved down the line.

Anywho, I see a big backlash against this tech-driven privacy invasion in the coming years.

Maybe JK, maybe not. Individuals yes, maybe even groups of individuals and hopefully some governments might, but the general mob liking Facebook feeds, snap chatting pics of the latest cake they ate and commenting on Tube vids? I'm not nearly so confident. The mob is easily swayed and placated. Give them what they think they want and give them their dopamine and social hits and they'll happily play along, with the odd minor objection when you don't get the dose just right. Easily fixed and the more info you have the more you can avoid such dosage issues.

lazybones32

JupiterKid wrote: »

Thoughts?

As long as people click "Accept" or "I Agree" without reading the small print
, then that is tough sh*t. People aren't being tricked into things, they are walking into it with their eyes wide open.
I learned the phrase caveat emptor in commerce over half my life ago...