The dumbed-down Leaving Cert

Permabear

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somesoldiers

Yes but all the murican companies will thing we are maths and science geniuses and open operations here....heehee

thelad95

There is still a thing called failure, as 344 honours maths students will tell you. They've just redefined what failure is. 30% for a pass is really just as arbitrary a figure as 40%.

tomwaterford

It deos seem a bit pointless that you can get up 70% wrong and still pass an pass

Hector Savage

This generation is a real worry, look at the reactions to the Brexit + Trump result they can't take any kind of frustration.
Taking part medals basically.

Getting a medal for finishing 19th in a race.

Kimbot

They changed how they grade it nothing else so they didnt "Dumb down" the leaving cert its the same standard it was.

Winterlong

tomwaterford wrote: »

It deos seem a bit pointless that you can get up 70% wrong and still pass an pass

Imagine doing your job only 30% right!!

But seriously, I think there is a lot more pressure on Leaving cert kids these days than there was when I did mine. A lot more pressure to do well, to get to 3rd level and to get the course you want.
Any LC students I know (neighbours and nieces) seem to work a lot harder then I did. They seem to have a lot more pressure on them. So good luck to them.

Falthyron

It won't make much difference in the grand scheme of things.

1: Less failing means higher CAO points requirements for courses. So, those fringe students who would have failed last year or the years before, now face higher points requirements for their CAO course. They probably won't get their first to third options anyway.

2: Its all relative. The ACA FAE are considered to be some of the most brutal exams going and yet 90% passed them last year. When you compare to 2014 where barely 50% passed, it becomes obvious that there are other factors in play for particular reasons.

3: You speak of the need to taste failure or at least be threatened by it and complain that they won't have that chance at Leaving Cert level? The students who would have failed previous (more difficult) Leaving Certs may very well experience that failure in University. So many students at University lack initiative, drive, and understanding when it comes to Third Level education. Many drop out feeling lost or confused as to what is expected of them. If the Leaving Cert wants to continue to spoon feed students it won't help their academic learning at University level, many of them will fail regardless.

This brings me back to the point of relativity. Whether they fail at the Leaving Cert or not, failure will eventually catch up with them. The main problem we have in this country is we don't teach students that failure is central to learning. Stick that on the Leaving Cert and we might start seeing educated citizens.

ohnonotgmail

So how has the exam been dumbed down? All they have changed are the grades that get CAO points. this thread is just a load of "It were much more difficult in my day" nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

Permabear

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Kimbot

Permabear wrote: »

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The exams have not been changed, only the way they grades count towards the CAO. Therefore the test has not been dumbed down if its the same as it always has been.

ohnonotgmail

Permabear wrote: »

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It was the same in my day and that was 30 years ago. Only your best 6 subjects counted towards points.

silverharp

the maths syllabus itself is dumbed down, a paper from the 80's would trigger a lot of students today. Students could then end up in maths heavy courses in University and fail because they overestimated their abilty

KungPao

Hector Savage wrote: »

This generation is a real worry, look at the reactions to the Brexit + Trump result they can't take any kind of frustration.
Taking part medals basically.

Getting a medal for finishing 19th in a race.

If you ain't first, you're last.

Ficheall

silverharp wrote: »

the maths syllabus itself is dumbed down, a paper from the 80's would trigger a lot of students today. Students could then end up in maths heavy courses in University and fail because they overestimated their abilty

Except this displeases the university's clients, so it has now become impossible to fail mathematics at university.

The_Valeyard

I still think getting points for failing an exam is just wrong.

Permabear

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Kimbot

Permabear wrote: »

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The exam is the exact same as it was last year. The only difference now is how the results count towards your CAO.

scoey

Don't see what the problem with 30 points for 30% on an honours paper or whatever is. Or even 20 for 20%.

It's easier to get 100% on an ordinary level exam than 30% on a higher level one.

Do they still have foundation level? Does that get points?

namloc1980

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It was the same in my day and that was 30 years ago. Only your best 6 subjects counted towards points.

30 years ago you would have got 0 points for getting 30-39% in the exams. Today you can get 222 points.

Permabear

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ohnonotgmail

namloc1980 wrote: »

30 years ago you would have got 0 points for getting 30-39% in the exams. Today you can get 222 points.

and 222 points will get you what, exactly? a level 6 course in an IT?

Kimbot

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and 222 points will get you what, exactly? a level 6 course in an IT?

Nah sure your a shoe in to be a Dr. then.

Redhighking

Permabear wrote: »

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This appears just to be a change in how the exams are graded how would this imply the Leaving Cert is being dumbed down? Have the syllabuses been changed since 2016?

Turtwig

The entire leaving certificate has been in the crapper for a long time now. Project maths was a nice idea to shift focus to understanding rather than rote until they botched the execution so terribly. Unfortunately I don't really see any resolution in the near future as teachers are somewhat of a protected species. Many of the STEM ones weren't fit for purpose. A transition to conceptual understanding would only exacerbate this problem. The problem is even worse when you consider some of today's exam result students will in a decade's time be teaching the stuff they never properly understood in the first place and the cycle will go on.

_Kaiser_

Hector Savage wrote: »

This generation is a real worry, look at the reactions to the Brexit + Trump result they can't take any kind of frustration.
Taking part medals basically.

Getting a medal for finishing 19th in a race.

This sums it up really and is reflected in reports from employers that many of the younger generation have an unrealistic sense of entitlement and inability to accept failure or criticism in the workplace.

As for those arguing that the exams haven't changed, just the grading - even if that was true (and posts above suggest it isn't), by making it easier to get a passing mark by lowering the threshold, it's the same result.

Ultimately it won't do the marginal student any favours when they face not only a completely different learning environment in college but also a far higher passing level and in the long run it won't help the country either when our education system as a whole is further devalued.

Perhaps it would be better if they actually failed and repeated. As well as giving them a better chance later, it's also a valuable life lesson

BillyBobBS

Everyone's a winner society. Its like the kids when they do these running races or football tournaments etc.. where they finish last and still get a medal.

Permabear

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Redhighking

The IT reported that just 2.1% of students failed Higher Level Maths - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-2017-dramatic-fall-off-in-failure-rates-across-key-subjects-1.3187767

Taking into account you get 3/4 out 10 in the marking scheme for attempting and making one right step in a question - no wonder so little failed under new marking scheme.

lazybones32

Everyone's a winner!

I got 50 pts when i first did my L.C. I went into a few exams stoned. Didn't care. The only college course open to me was some fish farming thing in Galway.

Turtwig

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Everyone's a winner society. Its like the kids when they do these running races or football tournaments etc.. where they finish last and still get a medal.

Pretty much this.

Society adorns "success". Most parents want their children to be winners and great at everything. Social media amplifies this effect. The virtues of experiencing failure and handling, it are completely ignored. Somewhat ironic too because social media achievement boasting is essentially one exponentially large self replicating loop of "survivorship bias".