Serie A Superthread

ERG89

Rekop dog wrote:

He's definitely behind Higuain and Aguero and Dybala for a striking birth for me anyway. And Argentine coach prefers Benedetto too.

I'd genuinely trust him more with taking a chance than those 4 though.
Theuy scored half of Inter's league goals too.

dor83

FCIM wrote: »

Everything but everything in terms of attacking play is channeled through him.......

The reason everything is channelled through him is because no other player in the squad scores goals so we have to rely on him and the other attacking players around him aren't good enough so they can't even do their job and create the chances for him. Icardi scores a goal every 3.4 shots and that was 2.7 before the poor run, that is an incredible conversion rate when it takes most other top forwards around the 5-6 mark, if the rest of the attacking players were doing their job and providing him with more chances he'd be scoring more but they are not. You talk about him not leaving the box but when he does then none of the other players go in there so that area is empty, we need a player who will play the trequartista role and fill the empty space when he does leave the box plus they will help link the rest of the midfield to him. I don't think he would be suited to Real unless they change the way they play because they are currently set up to provide Ronaldo not the CF, the same reason I think Benzema is under rated by them. I would say that if Icardi was in Joses Inter side he would be perfect and score even more than Milito did.

Mr.Nice Guy

Dzeko got a stoppage time equaliser for Roma against Sampdoria. Quagliarella had scored the opener from the penalty spot. Wonder if that's Dzeko's last involvement in a Roma shirt.

dor83

SPAL v Inter is the early match today, I'm hopeful that Inter can get win today to end the poor run of results but not overly confident. Line-ups are:

SPAL: Meret; Cionek, Vicari, Felipe; Lazzari, Schiattarella, Viviani, Grassi, Mattiello; Kurtic; Antenucci
Bench: Gomis, Marchegiani, Cremonesi, Bonazzoli, Floccari, Vaisanen, Salamon, Vitale, Guimaraes, Costa, Paloschi, Drame

Inter: Handanovic; Cancelo, Skriniar, Miranda, D’Ambrosio; Vecino, Borja Valero; Candreva, Brozovic, Perisic; Icardi
Bench: Padelli, Berni, Lisandro Lopez, Gagliardini, Rafinha, Ranocchia, Karamoh, Santon, Eder, Dalbert, Pinamonti, Nagatomo

FCIM

Disgusting first half performance. The most worrying thing is that even during this recent bad spell the system have still appeared to be in place. Today they look like they've never played together.

I feel sorry for Nagatomo. His performances have been good recently but he seems to have fallen out of all favour with Spalletti even when Santon has been horrendous and even today Cancelo looks like a fish out of water and is certainly out of position.

dor83

The whole attack has been useless today so something needs to change, maybe Eder and Rafinha on for Perisic and Brozo. I don't get why he put Cancelo on the left, he was playing well on the right and D'Ambrosio could play left or just play Naga.

dor83

Such an awful OG but we'll take it, now can we score another or at least keep a clean sheet, I'm not sure about either.

Headshot

omg Spal equalise

Im really worried about Inter and the CL spots now

dor83

SPAL deserved the equaliser, Inter looked poor all game and I can't understand why he didn't change things. Now we need Milan to do us a favour tonight but I can't see Lazio losing to them.

FCIM

Suning out!

Headshot

Guys are inter going to get any signings in Jan?

They desperately need something to jump start them again

dor83

Well Rafinha has been brought in and Lopez for cover at CB too. There has been talk of getting Pastore on loan but that depends on PSG selling Moura apparently, they need money for FFP and we can't buy Pastore because of FFP. Also talk of Sturridge on loan but that seemed to depend on Eder leaving and that doesn't look like happening any more. This run needs to end next week, we can't afford to drop points like that any more and I think once we get a win it'll boost confidence and we should be able to beat Crotone at home.

FCIM

Headshot wrote: »

Guys are inter going to get any signings in Jan?

They desperately need something to jump start them again

Suning will continue to put out the usual rubbish, using Sabatini and Ausilio (who I don't rate at all but the fact they use him is blatant) to suggest signings etc. whilst all the time block them behind the scenes. They have absolutely zip all idea of what football is and think they can do everything on the cheap. Inter needs serious money spent on the squad before we can think about Champions League football but Suning have no interest, despite the fact they're loaded, in doing so. I can actually envision us becoming a selling club in time under them. They're a joke and whilst Spalletti needs and deserves the backing of both the support and the board, it's high time the support turned on Suning and called them out for what they are, liars and cheapskates.

FCIM

dor83 wrote: »

Well Rafinha has been brought in and Lopez for cover at CB too. There has been talk of getting Pastore on loan but that depends on PSG selling Moura apparently, they need money for FFP and we can't buy Pastore because of FFP. Also talk of Sturridge on loan but that seemed to depend on Eder leaving and that doesn't look like happening any more. This run needs to end next week, we can't afford to drop points like that any more and I think once we get a win it'll boost confidence and we should be able to beat Crotone at home.

You'd have said we should have been able to beat Spal away. They've brought in a player who has played only a handful of games in the five years he's been at Benfica, whose fans hate him because he's useless, proving himself not good enough for the Portuguese league which is several levels below the Italian one and a crock. Not good enough at this level.

dor83

FCIM wrote: »

You'd have said we should have been able to beat Spal away. They've brought in a player who has played only a handful of games in the five years he's been at Benfica, whose fans hate him because he's useless, proving himself not good enough for the Portuguese league which is several levels below the Italian one and a crock. Not good enough at this level.

True, but I need to be hopeful at least because I'm not confident.
He's cover, back up for Rano in case there are injuries or suspensions like what happened against Fiorentina. It's also an option to buy cheap so he can be sent back in the summer, use him as a stop gap.

FCIM

dor83 wrote: »

True, but I need to be hopeful at least because I'm not confident.
He's cover, back up for Rano in case there are injuries or suspensions like what happened against Fiorentina. It's also an option to buy cheap so he can be sent back in the summer, use him as a stop gap.

I lost all hope after today. Well, apart from the tiniest glimmer that we could make it by "default" because Roma appear in no better shape. It wouldn't shock me were Sampdoria to at least hold them tonight. I honestly can't see the difference between Suning and Thohir at this stage though.

dor83

FCIM wrote: »

I lost all hope after today. Well, apart from the tiniest glimmer that we could make it by "default" because Roma appear in no better shape. It wouldn't shock me were Sampdoria to at least hold them tonight. I honestly can't see the difference between Suning and Thohir at this stage though.

It's difficult to be hopeful but I reckon one win will give some confidence and players will start playing again, but then I didn't think we'd go this long without a win either.

On the ownership thing, I think we have very different views on this, especially the clubs compliance to FFP, and don't think either will change our opinion. Not criticising your opinion or anything but I have had the same view that the club should be made self sustaining since Moratti was throwing money at the club so I don't see it changing.

FCIM

dor83 wrote: »

It's difficult to be hopeful but I reckon one win will give some confidence and players will start playing again, but then I didn't think we'd go this long without a win either.

On the ownership thing, I think we have very different views on this, especially the clubs compliance to FFP, and don't think either will change our opinion. Not criticising your opinion or anything but I have had the same view that the club should be made self sustaining since Moratti was throwing money at the club so I don't see it changing.

I'm not against the concept of becoming self-sufficient. In fact, I think it's the best situation possible. But it's about how you become self-sufficient. I have always thought that there will come a day when Chelsea and PSG go bang. Neither convince me that they are really big clubs. They are very successful clubs and very rich clubs but are Chelsea, in terms of size, really comparable with Manchester United and City, Liverpool, Arsenal, even Spurs? I don't hear of too many Chelsea supporters outside London, and even that part of London. PSG can win as many French honours as they want but the French league does not capture world attention because it's simply not strong enough and in France, where football is not particularly popular in vast swathes of the country, and it is also worth bearing in mind that France is a very fragmented in terms of who sees themselves as French and there is a huge amount of antagonism towards the capital, PSG's growth will always be limited.

However, to grow any business, and particularly to grow from a particularly weak position, you have to spend. It's a fact in all industries and football is no different. If you try to be self-sufficient in a poor position, you will become self-sufficient in that position. An ideal project for Inter would be something like the Manchester City owners are aiming for. From day one, they've been targeting a situation where they're self-sufficient. What they realised though was that to get to where they wanted to be, they needed to invest in the playing squad immediately. Now, everyone talks about how much City spend on their squad but most ignore or don't recognise the amount of money City are putting into their structures. Investing in their youth systems, collegated centres around the world, of which New York is the most obvious example etc. If you dig into it it's clear they are pointing towards being along the same lines as Barcelona. Right down to getting every side, from the youngest to the senior, playing the same way. It shouldn't be discounted that they brought Guardiola in and they didn't do it just for immediate success. It even looks like they are putting time into growing Vieira into the next manager and in so doing creating an even more Barcelona-esque style.

It would be pointless doing that though if the team was struggling to play in Europe every year and the Champions League, and the money involved, was a pipedream. They've gotten themselves where they need to be and then when they do go self-sufficient they'll be in the best place possible to be so. Most will argue with me that that is what City are doing and will give out about the amount of money they spend but a lot of it is sour grapes, not wanting to really look at what's happening and just discount them as the latest moneybags club which has risen above its station (though City have always been a big club and for decades were a sleeping giant).

Rekop dog

Napoli still plugging away up top, amazed none of the big clubs have nabbed Mertens away by now, maybe his age is the biggest deterrent but Belgium have a scary amount of players in amazing form for the world cup.

Shocked Milan are favourites against Lazio, I can see them destroying us again this evening. The only thing Milan have going for them here is Lazio's poor record at the San Siro but can't see that being too big a factor today. Two clubs going in very different directions momentum wise right now.

FCIM

Rekop dog wrote: »

Napoli still plugging away up top, amazed none of the big clubs have nabbed Mertens away by now, maybe his age is the biggest deterrent but Belgium have a scary amount of players in amazing form for the world cup.

Shocked Milan are favourites against Lazio, I can see them destroying us again this evening.

Napoli also seem to be a club with something of a family mentality. A lot of players seem to be very happy to stay there. I can't understand it myself as when I visited the city I couldn't wait to get back out though the hinterland is amazingly beautiful.

dor83

I actually agree about City but you have to remember that they have owned the club for 10 years and it took time to get to where they are plus they have the advantage of being in the PL where the money is huge and they have a modern stadium which they own too, I have said many times that the first step should be owning a stadium but for Inter that is nearly impossible as things stand. I also don't think Suning would have the amount of money to spend on Inter that has been spent on City, not a criticism of them but very few owners would have billions to pump into it.

This is only the 2nd season that Suning have owned the club and they did spend a lot in their first summer but it didn't help really because between Joao Mario, Gabigol, Jovetic and Ansaldi that is about €100m wasted. Look at Milan in the summer, they spent a huge amount and brought in players who were proven in Bonucci and Biglia plus promising players like Kessie and Conti(all players most Inter fans would have been happy with I would imagine) but have been terrible, spending crazy money doesn't guarantee success. I would be more of the opinion that they look at Man Utd as the model of how a club should be built, I know we aren't anywhere near them in terms of marketing or revenue and at this point will never be but look at how much their revenue streams have increased since in the last 10 years by expanding into new markets and getting better sponsorship. Inter are way behind and that has a lot to do with how Moratti ran the club, the potential was there after the triplet but he did nothing with it and let the club slide backwards which means that Suning now have a much tougher job on their hands. Patience is very important now because it will take time to rebuild but most fans just want instant success.

Rekop dog

Yeah it's a very unitalian City. Wasn't a big fan myself but San Paolo is the best place to watch football atmosphere wise.

dor83

Rekop dog wrote: »

Yeah it's a very unitalian City. Wasn't a big fan myself but San Paolo is the best place to watch football atmosphere wise.

Wasn't a fan of the city or stadium myself, thought there was a much better atmosphere at the Lazio game and for what is probably biased reasons my favourite is San Siro. Good pizza in Napoli though, and very cheap too.

Rekop dog

San Siro has always been average enough imo. I've been to a few Milan Derbies and it's never been too raucous, friendly enough as city rivalries go. Inter v Juve looks a bit more hyped, haven't been to one of those.

A Samp v Genoa derby is one I haven't been to thats probably top of my list, that always seems intense on tv.

FCIM

dor83 wrote: »

I actually agree about City but you have to remember that they have owned the club for 10 years and it took time to get to where they are plus they have the advantage of being in the PL where the money is huge and they have a modern stadium which they own too, I have said many times that the first step should be owning a stadium but for Inter that is nearly impossible as things stand. I also don't think Suning would have the amount of money to spend on Inter that has been spent on City, not a criticism of them but very few owners would have billions to pump into it.

This is only the 2nd season that Suning have owned the club and they did spend a lot in their first summer but it didn't help really because between Joao Mario, Gabigol, Jovetic and Ansaldi that is about €100m wasted. Look at Milan in the summer, they spent a huge amount and brought in players who were proven in Bonucci and Biglia plus promising players like Kessie and Conti(all players most Inter fans would have been happy with I would imagine) but have been terrible, spending crazy money doesn't guarantee success. I would be more of the opinion that they look at Man Utd as the model of how a club should be built, I know we aren't anywhere near them in terms of marketing or revenue and at this point will never be but look at how much their revenue streams have increased since in the last 10 years by expanding into new markets and getting better sponsorship. Inter are way behind and that has a lot to do with how Moratti ran the club, the potential was there after the triplet but he did nothing with it and let the club slide backwards which means that Suning now have a much tougher job on their hands. Patience is very important now because it will take time to rebuild but most fans just want instant success.

I don't expect instant success but I would like them to be honest at least and if owners came along who said "look, the first few years will be a struggle but we're going to get there and this is how" I'd back them. Even if the Zhangs came out with it and said they don't want to spend money because they're cheapskates and they want to build an Inter based on the Italian stereotype of Chinese businesses (low prices and poor quality) at least they wouldn't be taking the p1ss out of us by telling us how much they want to return Inter to being great. I have no desire to emulate Manchester United under the Glazers, a failure of a club since Ferguson left and the only reason the Glazers have enjoyed success is because of the brilliance of Alex Ferguson. It is also unnecessary for the Zhangs to put the money into Inter that City's owners have for the very reason you've stated. The PL is incredibly rich so megabucks are needed. Serie A isn't, so to get to Juve and Napoli's level doesn't require the same level of wealth and investment. What you can't do though is continue to shop in Aldi (Lopez, Rafinha) and expect Marks and Spencer quality food (Champions League). The one area I would give them credit is on the staff they've taken on. Spalletti and Sabatini are amongst the best in the business in their respective positions but if you continue to take the p1ss out of them, messing Spalletti about by telling him you'll back him but not doing so and then f\/ck Sabatini about with the Ramires situation then they'll walk (and rightly so) and then where do you go? Also, enough of the nonsense over the stadium. Milan city council are playing hardball and have done for years but any savvy businessman who genuinely wanted a new stadium would say "OK, no problem, act the boll1xes all you want, we'll build our new stadium in Sesto San Giovanni (for example) just as near to the centre as most places on the outskirts but in "Milan" because we're cast iron certain that their council will be only to happen to receive the investment we'll bring" and to hell with Milan city council.

Rekop dog wrote: »

San Siro has always been average enough imo. I've been to a few Milan Derbies and it's never been too raucous, friendly enough as city rivalries go. Inter v Juve looks a bit more hyped, haven't been to one of those.

A Samp v Genoa derby is one I haven't been to thats probably top of my list, that always seems intense on tv.

Atalanta - Brescia tops my list of derbies I haven't been to that I want to but they need to play in the same division for that and as someone with a soft spot for the Bergamaschi it would need to be in A but that doesn't look likely at the minute.

Rekop dog

Yeah good shout, and the Città Alta in Bergamo is genuinely one of the most underrated locations on Earth, so authentic and beautiful.

FCIM

Rekop dog wrote: »

Yeah good shout, and the Città Alta in Bergamo is genuinely one of the most underrated locations on Earth, so authentic and beautiful.

I often think the atmosphere is better when the club is on a certain level. Once you get to Inter or Milan's level, you're too big and have a lot of gloryhunters who aren't passionate about the club. There is no reason to support Atalanta or Brescia (who I dislike in as much measure as I have a soft spot for Atalanta, for no other reason than I have a soft spot for Atalanta and Bergamo - and many Italians actually tell me I speak Italian with a bergamasco accent) other than you love the club, they aren't going to win anything or enjoy sustained success, so the people who go to watch them are understandably passionate. As an Interista, I actually prefer the atmosphere against the Spals, Crotones and Veronas as the people who go are the diehards. The best atmosphere I ever witnessed was Inter - Siena (4-3 in 2010) and I've been to matches against Juventus, Milan, Roma etc. multiple times.

Rekop dog

Yeah I find the whole half empty stadium thing very off putting though, nothing kills an atmosphere like empty seats for me. Many locals I've talked to are pretty despondent with Calcio these days.

A lot of leagues could learn a lot from Bundesliga, cheap tickets, cheap beer, packed out stadiums with incredible noise, great transport facilities to games, the best run league by a country mile in Europe and has never neglected the working man by pricing them out.

dor83

FCIM wrote: »

...

Again, I don't think we'll ever agree on this topic and we've discussed it before in PM so don't think there's much point in taking up the whole thread with it when neither of us will change our view. Like I said earlier, I'm not criticising you or your opinion, we just don't agree on it and that's fine.

On the atmosphere, I'd agree that it's better against the smaller teams myself, like you say it's the more passionate fans who go to these games. I've always thought the atmosphere was good at San Siro but then every match I have been to there was in the curva nord except my first one and an Italy match so that helps. I also think it's a good idea keeping the top tier closed for most games, it makes the stadium seem fuller during games that won't sell out.

FCIM

dor83 wrote: »

Again, I don't think we'll ever agree on this topic and we've discussed it before in PM so don't think there's much point in taking up the whole thread with it when neither of us will change our view. Like I said earlier, I'm not criticising you or your opinion, we just don't agree on it and that's fine.

On the atmosphere, I'd agree that it's better against the smaller teams myself, like you say it's the more passionate fans who go to these games. I've always thought the atmosphere was good at San Siro but then every match I have been to there was in the curva nord except my first one and an Italy match so that helps. I also think it's a good idea keeping the top tier closed for most games, it makes the stadium seem fuller during games that won't sell out.

Sorry, no disrespect intended, you're as entitled to your view as I would like to think I am to mine, but you're a lot more reasonable than I am and when I get into my moments of fury perhaps it would be better to ignore me. Posts like "Suning out" aren't meant to be constructive, it's just me venting. I live and breathe Inter, if I lived in Italy I would go to every match, home and away, and would very much be part of the ultra scene (which I have no doubt you would be too). But part of that with me is being unreasonable. I'll happily discuss Inter with you but, whilst it hasn't, I could see us both getting frustrated with each other which would be a shame so when you think I'm out of line, maybe ignoring me would be best. Again, I don't mean any disrespect at all in saying that, just I think we are both polar opposites in our thinking on how the club should be run (although perhaps we do share the same ideal of being self-sufficient, just different ideas on how to get there) and therefore it's not healthy to continue the discussion. As I said, no disrespect intended.

In terms of closing the third tier, the green third tier was always my favourite place to watch a match. You got the atmosphere from the second tier, there was almost always an overspill of ultras in there or perhaps ultras who wanted to see the match as well as actively support the team and it was generally a great place to watch from.