Selecting a formula product

s7ryf3925pivug

We are expecting our first baby in February and are looking into what might be the best formula to use.
We know breastfeeding is usually preferable but there are medical reasons for needing to look at formula.

There are some papers that suggest that 2fl hmo is very beneficial.
I cannot post links because I'm a new user. Here is a url to a study: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26154029
It appears to be unique to new similac products that are not available in Ireland. Might this still be a viable option? ie: Is it in any other products, or could it be imported in some way that was not prohibitively expensive? ...Is it even legal to import it from the USA?

Most products available in the shops here contain prebiotics. Apparently the EU advise not consuming these. They say there is no proven benefit and they can cause problems with digestion.

My understanding is that nutritionally, all products satisfy the same criteria and are not hugely different in most ways. One way they do differ is in terms of DHA content. I would look at DHA levels as being a factor in selecting a product.

Any suggestions, useful info, experiences with different products?

s7ryf3925pivug

FSAI approved 2fl as an ingredient after an application made by glycom: fsai.ie/uploadedFiles/Science_and_Health/Novel_Foods/Notifications/2016%20Glycom%20Fermented%202%27FL.pdf

They sell the ingredient to manufacturers though, not any consumer products. As I understand it, 2FL-HMO will be called “2’-O-fucosyllactose” when found in Irish products.

edit: I think the authorization of its sale in the EU is not yet in force: eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32016D0376


Regarding legality of importing it - as I understand it, it's legal to do so in retricted quantities:

There also is an exemption for powdered infant milk, infant food, and special foods or special pet feed required for medical reasons, if weighing less than 2 kilograms and provided that:
such products do not require refrigeration before opening
that they are packaged proprietary brand products for direct sale to the final consumer, and
the packaging is unbroken unless in current use

- ec.europa.eu/food/animals/animalproducts/personal_imports_en

pwurple

Are the medical reasons to do with the baby or the mother?

I would say consult your GP to be honest.

s7ryf3925pivug

pwurple wrote: »

Are the medical reasons to do with the baby or the mother?

I would say consult your GP to be honest.

The mother, and I don't want to discuss them.
We plan to discuss it with the ob gyn this week and GP next visit also.
Not looking for medical advice here, just discussion/recommendation of products.

pwurple

I don't follow the motivation then. If the baby does not required a specific formula, then what are you looking at these for?

Wait until baby is born, try each until you find one that suits the baby. Each child is different. No point in trying to recommend one.

You are fairly unlikely to get opinions on your import of trial oligosaccharides for making up your own formula. Who does that?

wuffly

Honestly its best to wait until baby arrives, they are all pretty similar I would advise going with something that is easily available in powder and pre-made format (handy for going out/travel etc) Try not to chop and change too much, its hard on their tummies. The obg gyn probably won't have any advice its not their area (mine specifically said when my son was born, don't ask me about him I don't know anything about babies, in a nice way!) best off with your GP or PHN unless your baby has specific issues they won't need a special type of formula. When we moved our son on to formula he got constipated so needed some anti-constipation formula, we mixed with regular formula until we found a balance that suited him, unfortunately with formula is a bit of trial and error. Try not to worry too much, i was gutted when i couldn't continue to bf, and stressed about formula and what's in it. If it's what you want/need to do just go with it. Its not long until they are eating/throwing solids and you have whole other set of worries. Best of luck.

mirrorwall14

Pick one that's widely available so you never get caught and one that's available in your hospital. I was unable to breastfeed due to medication and they had cow and gate, sma and I think actimal. I used cow and gate. Stuck with it through reflux too as the reflux formula didn't suit him (we used additives to the bottle instead on GP recommendation)

Beanybabog

I agree with the last post. I breastfed but at 6 months started to wean slowly and I picked aptamil, mainly because I heard it's widely available. Turns out it is- my local shop stocks a few bits of baby stuff and their only formula is aptamil, and there's a lot to be said for easy access to it. I'm sure many of the usual formulas are similar but it'll be trial and error- you won't know if baby has an issue until you try one. Also I would import stuff, even the hassle of that if you run out will be a nightmare. When baby is here you need things to be as easy as possible

s7ryf3925pivug

Thanks everyone for your advice.

To clarify my second post, I wasn't thinking about making formula from basic ingredients. I just think once the ingredient is legal in the eu, products will be sold that include it. (They already are sold in the USA.)

superman28

I thought it was possible to obtain breastmilk for newborns for medical reasons. (from a milkbank) In particular, if you are concerned about digestive issues etc.. might be something to consider.

s7ryf3925pivug

superman28 wrote: »

I thought it was possible to obtain breastmilk for newborns for medical reasons. (from a milkbank) In particular, if you are concerned about digestive issues etc.. might be something to consider.

Anyone have any experience with doing this, or trying to do it?

I wouldn't expect it to be possible long term at all, but maybe it would be advantageous to do it for a short period at least?

bee06

I would say it's something the hospital would have to organise. If you google breast milk bank Ireland a lot of articles come up.

PhoenixParker

Boston Colossal Spleen wrote: »

Anyone have any experience with doing this, or trying to do it?

I wouldn't expect it to be possible long term at all, but maybe it would be advantageous to do it for a short period at least?

There's a lot of peer to peer breast milk donation, usually in Facebook groups. Human milk for human babies is one of the bigger ones I believe. I looked into it but never did it. The milk bank is mostly for nicu babies I think.

January

The milk bank would prioritize babies in NICU or seriously ill babies before a baby who can be fed formula without a medical need for breastmilk. I also wouldn't recommend using a peer to peer milk donor unless they've had similar tests to the one's used by the human milk bank in Fermanagh.

I also would highly suggest not making your own baby formula, but that's just me...

pwurple

Boston Colossal Spleen wrote: »

Anyone have any experience with doing this, or trying to do it?

I wouldn't expect it to be possible long term at all, but maybe it would be advantageous to do it for a short period at least?

As January has said, it's for babies in intensive care, who for some reason cannot process formula.

Honestly, I hope you are not doing this formula obsessing in front of the expectant mother, you would be absolutely compounding any sense of failure she was feeling.

jlm29

Milk from the milk bank costs a bomb, apparently. I saw a figure quoted recently, but can't remember what it was. Obviously this is paid by the hospital, when the milk is needed for medical reasons, but if there were no medical reasons, you'd have to pay for it yourself.

January

jlm29 wrote: »

Milk from the milk bank costs a bomb, apparently. I saw a figure quoted recently, but can't remember what it was. Obviously this is paid by the hospital, when the milk is needed for medical reasons, but if there were no medical reasons, you'd have to pay for it yourself.

Public it's paid for by the hospital, private you can bet your bottom dollar that it's being passed on to the insurance company.

jlm29

January wrote: »

Public it's paid for by the hospital, private you can bet your bottom dollar that it's being passed on to the insurance company.

Yup, no doubt about it, but either way, I'm sure the need for it needs to be well established by doctors. And to be honest, as a former donor, I'd be a small bit aggrieved if it was being supplied to anyone other than babies who were ill and really needed it!

PhoenixParker

One thing you might like to do is to look into expressing colostrum.

Colostrum is the pre-milk and probably the most important bit of the whole breastfeeding process. It's possible to hand express it near the end of pregnancy and store it to give to the newborn.

There are how to guides if you Google it.

Obviously what's preventing breastfeeding may also prevent the hand expressing but if it's something like a medication that's counter-indicated and needs to be resumed post pregnancy, colostrum expressed early would be fine.

Cocobongo

Sometimes formulas seem to be pretty much the same, but one is being well tolerated by the baby and another not so much. wait - try - and you will know

s7ryf3925pivug

pwurple wrote: »

As January has said, it's for babies in intensive care, who for some reason cannot process formula.

Honestly, I hope you are not doing this formula obsessing in front of the expectant mother, you would be absolutely compounding any sense of failure she was feeling.

My wife doesn't feel any sense of failure. It would be very misplaced if she did. I understand how someone might - it's really pushed that breastfeeding is better. She is intelligent and strong-minded enough to think about best available choices though.

My 'obsessing' is related to autism. My wife is very familiar with it and finds it irritating sometimes when I go on like that. But a quirk I have definitely doesn't make her feel like a failure.

tbh I don't appreciate the comments thanks.

blackbird86

I don't know your wife's reasons for not being able to breastfeed but on the off chance it's because she's been told she can't due to medication then this link might be helpful: http://ibconline.ca/maternal-medications/

If it's for other reasons then ignore. I just know that lots of people get told they shouldn't breastfeed due to medication when it's not actually true in most cases.

s7ryf3925pivug

SMA Advanced is a product that contains this which is now available here.

You can also just mix the powder with water from the tap instead of having to boil it first (the stage 2 and stage 3 one at least).

Became available during the summer so how much of a benefit it provides is a bit obscured, but my son has been sick only once since starting it, and he is shaking that dose off better than my wife is. Previously he was getti g sock the whole time, and getting chest infections instead of shaking off colds, for example.

Anyway aside from my anecdote, the evidence is that it offers immunity benefits over other formula feeds, so it makes sense to use it if you are using formula and especially if you have a kid with a compromised immune system.

s7ryf3925pivug

As regards milk from the milk bank, our baby was premature and spent two weeks in the NICU where he was given milk from the milk bank. I had to argue a bit to get it but they should be giving it to any baby before 35 weeks if they have it available. We had gone private.

There was the offer of an individual donor before they agreed. The consultant paediatrician recommended against this because of the risk of infection.

Another thing worth knowing about feeding babies is that iron deficiency is common with them. It is untrue that stage 1 formula is as good to use as others beyond 6 months because the later stage formula has more iron in it. Premature babies are more likely to be iron deficient because they do not start with the same store of iron in their bodies as full-term babies.

Milly33

I was kinda like you at the start and wanted to know exactly what one was best and research and all that goes... Was going to go goats milk formula as well even from lets say knowing a farmer they were saying tis the closest thing they would feed the calf's and sure thats another story...Cost of this and supply really cut it out for us...

Anyway in the end, went for a bit of read the back of the pack and if you understand the most of it then it is good..

I dont like the Aptamil myself, might be just because it is the most advertised one (which to me means tis dodgey or someone is making more money off you someplace) we went with the old reliable SMA and found it great.. The only thing i did not like about it was when you went to the differant stages like 2 and 3, I think it was more stage 3 it tastes so sweet more like a milkshake, no wonder people have issues weaning kids off it.. Scrapped that one and just had stage 2 and then milk.. They so dont need it, tis like selling cats milk... Madness, plus for going away they have these great premade formula which takes the hassel of having to have boiled water etc or keeping the bottles hot or cold...

In saying all this herself was great and had no issues bar some spit up but that just takes time to get used to and it passes, like most things with the babies it seems like forever things go on for at the time but it is only a few days really...

Dont be too taken back with the breastfeeding too, I found it gas how it was all about breastfeeding when you are pregnant and you can tell the docs are more keen on it and then when you have the baby i found thats where it ended, it was like right your doing it thats great bye...

Best of luck with everything and i hope ye are enjoying the last few months

CheerLouth

Milly33 wrote: »

Dont be too taken back with the breastfeeding too, I found it gas how it was all about breastfeeding when you are pregnant and you can tell the docs are more keen on it and then when you have the baby i found thats where it ended, it was like right your doing it thats great bye...

This 100%. When you are pregnant, every medical professional is repeating "Breast is best", in reality, Fed is best.

If your wife does not want to/can't breastfeed, for whatever reason, if she is doing a birth preferences, I would encourage her to put it on there. I've done it on both my babies & it's worked perfectly & made for ease of communication with the staff.

The golden rule....#1 feed the baby, whether that be breast or bottle. Everything else is secondary. Each baby is different, and until you meet that little person you wont know what works best. Dont be afraid to bottle, breast or combination feed. Dont be hard on yourself if one option doesn't work, there are many things to try.

lazygal

Fed is best is crap. Don't believe it for a minute.
It's also grossly offensive to imply the information provided on breastfeeding is compatible to nazism. Surprised that comment is allowed in the first place.
Breast is biological normal. Artifical substitutes are all broadly similar.

iamwhoiam

lazygal wrote: »

Fed is best is crap. Don't believe it for a minute.
It's also grossly offensive to imply the information provided on breastfeeding is compatible to nazism. Surprised that comment is allowed in the first place.
Breast is biological normal. Artifical substitutes are all broadly similar.

There are reasons why its not always an option to breasfeed a baby . Those mothers are well aware that artificial feed is not natural . But its the only option they have

lazygal

iamwhoiam wrote: »

lazygal wrote: »

Fed is best is crap. Don't believe it for a minute.
It's also grossly offensive to imply the information provided on breastfeeding is compatible to nazism. Surprised that comment is allowed in the first place.
Breast is biological normal. Artifical substitutes are all broadly similar.

There are reasons why its not always an option to breasfeed a baby . Those mothers are well aware that artificial feed is not natural . But its the only option they have

That's fine.
Most people initiated breastfeeding and being peddled a line that fed is best is absolutely nonsensical. What babies and infants and everyone else is fed matters.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

That's fine.
Most people initiated breastfeeding and being peddled a line that fed is best is absolutely nonsensical. What babies and infants and everyone else is fed matters.

Yes it matters what people are fed and formula is a perfectly good alternative, so fed is best. Breastfeeding nazis do more harm than good, the pressure I have seen people feel under to breastfeed when it’s just not for them is just wrong.

Cakerbaker

Regardless of whether someone wants to breast feed or formula feed, saying Fed is best implies not being fed is the alternative. Being fed is a necessity, not what’s best. That’s why it’s a stupid saying.

It’s not really, it means once the baby is eating well and thriving that’s what matters for both mother and baby. A mother half killing herself trying to breastfeed and child not getting adequate nutrition as not getting enough milk etc would be a possible scenario where the child is not being fed enough it doesn’t mean throwing the child in a cot and ignoring it when it needs feeding.

lazygal

Nehemiah Obedient Coffeepot wrote: »

It’s not really, it means once the baby is eating well and thriving that’s what matters for both mother and baby. A mother half killing herself trying to breastfeed and child not getting adequate nutrition as not getting enough milk etc would be a possible scenario where the child is not being fed enough it doesn’t mean throwing the child in a cot and ignoring it when it needs feeding.

Rubbish.
Of course if you're using nazis as a term when discussing infant feeding it's a sign you're probably not someone to take seriously.

Moonbeam

Moderator request:
Please stop using the term "nazi" in relation to breastfeeding

Milly33

Why does his topic always end badly!!! Just smile everyone

jlm29

If fed is best I’ll eat McDonald’s for breakfast every day and wash it down with coke. Yum yum.
.
.
.
.
Oh wait. There’s a better option.
There’s a human milk bank in Ireland, and very premature or very sick babies get milk from it rather than getting formula. Why? Because it’s more appropriate biologically than synthetic milk. It’s made by humans for humans. It’s better.

I personally don’t care what anyone else feeds their baby. Actually couldn’t give a s**t. Makes no difference to me. I have never in my life pushed breastfeeding with anyone. But it boils my blood when I’m compared to a genocidal maniac, because I choose the absolute best nutrition for my kids.

In the society we live in, most people, including health professionals, in my experience push formula as an answer to the problems of a breastfed baby. Not sleeping... give formula. Not gaining enough weight..... give formula. Mother is tired.... give formula. Might suit some people, might not suit others, but the advice is perfectly acceptable it seems. I’ve never heard of a formula Nazi.
It seems to never be socially acceptable to push breast milk over formula, coz that makes someone pushy and weird (I won’t use the N word), rather than just honest.

mirrorwall14

Honestly my experience is literally the opposite of you with two pregnancies in the last five years. No one feels it’s socially acceptable to push breast feeding? Everyone is pushing breast feeding. From medical professionals to families to people on the street!

bee06

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Honestly my experience is literally the opposite of you with two pregnancies in the last five years. No one feels it’s socially acceptable to push breast feeding? Everyone is pushing breast feeding. From medical professionals to families to people on the street!

Milly hit the nail on the head when she said everyone is pushing breastfeeding when your pregnant but after you have the baby and you actually want to breastfeed but have problems then formula is usually thrown out as the solution.

Personally, I think fed is best and breast is best are a load of crap. Informed and supported is what’s really best. If someone makes an informed decision about what’s best for their baby then great but if someone makes a decision because they are told formula is the same as breastmilk or they want to breastfeed but are in agony because of tongue tie and are told “your nipples just need to toughen up, nothing’s wrong” then that’s a disgrace and a failing of the support system that should be in place for new mothers.

kylith

jlm29 wrote: »

If fed is best I’ll eat McDonald’s for breakfast every day and wash it down with coke. Yum yum.
.

Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.

jlm29

kylith wrote: »

Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.

I’m not saying that formula is equivalent to McDonald’s. I’m just making the point that adult or child, not all food is created equal. Fed is not best for any of us, it’s just the basic minimum.

annoyedgal

The difference between breastmilk and formula is far greater than formula companies would have you believe.
Breastmilk contains antibodies which are tailored to the individual baby and changes as they need it. If baby is sick, breastmilk changes to speed up recovery. Formula cannot do this.
I try to avoid the breastmilk and formula debate as to each their own but to say that they are comparable or almost comparable in terms of benefit to baby is just not true.



quote="kylith;111304543"]Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.[/quote]

kylith

kylith wrote: »

Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.

Exactly this. For all intends and purposes there is very little difference between the two and you will have a happy and healthy baby who is fed formula.

As a family member remarked to me when at an anti-natal class on the topic of breast and bottle feeding. The person giving the class said hands up who was breast fed as a child and out of the 12 or so people in the room not one hand went up, “and was it ever an issue or are ye not all happy and healthy adults” she said next. Basically it was saying not to be made feel you are not doing the right thing for you baby just because you choose or are forced to bottle feed.

Milly33

annoyedgal wrote: »

The difference between breastmilk and formula is far greater than formula companies would have you believe.
Breastmilk contains antibodies which are tailored to the individual baby and changes as they need it. If baby is sick, breastmilk changes to speed up recovery. Formula cannot do this.
I try to avoid the breastmilk and formula debate as to each their own but to say that they are comparable or almost comparable in terms of benefit to baby is just not true.



quote="kylith;111304543"]Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.

[/QUOTE]


Id be the same with the breastfeeding it seems to be like telling someone how to raise their child, the min there is a difference of opinion it is like a Star Wars episode or something...

Just thinking of the antibodies and that though, my sis breastfeed her two boys and i mean they got a lot of milk, she had a never ending supply of it.. And the two of them could not have got anything else.. They always got colds, and stuffiness and well everything really you could get they would have.. So sure tis all about what the one person wants to do and feel good about doing it no matter...

annoyedgal

Sorry Milly but that is like the argument that my uncle smoked 20 a day and lived to be 90! Its medically proven that breastmilk boosts immunity. There are exceptions to every rule.
I'll bow out now as people will believe what they want to believe. I have no issue at all with formula but i take issue to the misinformation around it.

Milly33 wrote: »

Id be the same with the breastfeeding it seems to be like telling someone how to raise their child, the min there is a difference of opinion it is like a Star Wars episode or something...

Just thinking of the antibodies and that though, my sis breastfeed her two boys and i mean they got a lot of milk, she had a never ending supply of it.. And the two of them could not have got anything else.. They always got colds, and stuffiness and well everything really you could get they would have.. So sure tis all about what the one person wants to do and feel good about doing it no matter...[/quote]

lazygal

Nehemiah Obedient Coffeepot wrote: »

kylith wrote: »

Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.

Exactly this. For all intends and purposes there is very little difference between the two and you will have a happy and healthy baby who is fed formula.

As a family member remarked to me when at an anti-natal class on the topic of breast and bottle feeding. The person giving the class said hands up who was breast fed as a child and out of the 12 or so people in the room not one hand went up, “and was it ever an issue or are ye not all happy and healthy adults” she said next. Basically it was saying not to be made feel you are not doing the right thing for you baby just because you choose or are forced to bottle feed.

This is absolutely shocking carry on for a medical professional. There's no way she should be using this type of purely anecdotal evidence to imply formula and breastfeeding are the same. I fed my first formula in combination with mainly breastfeeding and I was fully aware the formula was an inferior way to feed her. Facts don't care about your feelings. The fact is we have abysmal rates of breastfeeding in Ireland for myriad reasons, one of which is the pooly informed health care practitioners like this who don't have a clue about normal infant nutrition.

iamwhoiam

lazygal wrote: »

This is absolutely shocking carry on for a medical professional. There's no way she should be using this type of purely anecdotal evidence to imply formula and breastfeeding are the same. I fed my first formula in combination with mainly breastfeeding and I was fully aware the formula was an inferior way to feed her. Facts don't care about your feelings. The fact is we have abysmal rates of breastfeeding in Ireland for myriad reasons, one of which is the pooly informed health care practitioners like this who don't have a clue about normal infant nutrition.

No one should be made feel inferior if the bottle feed their baby . There are health reasons why some can’t breastfeed and the words “ inferior way to feed a baby “ is unnecessary and hurtful

lazygal

iamwhoiam wrote: »

lazygal wrote: »

This is absolutely shocking carry on for a medical professional. There's no way she should be using this type of purely anecdotal evidence to imply formula and breastfeeding are the same. I fed my first formula in combination with mainly breastfeeding and I was fully aware the formula was an inferior way to feed her. Facts don't care about your feelings. The fact is we have abysmal rates of breastfeeding in Ireland for myriad reasons, one of which is the pooly informed health care practitioners like this who don't have a clue about normal infant nutrition.

No one should be made feel inferior if the bottle feed their baby . There are health reasons why some can’t breastfeed and the words “ inferior way to feed a baby “ is unnecessary and hurtful

There is no way any health care practitioner should state formula and breastfeeding are equal. That's simply untrue and goes against WHO guidelines no matter how much anyone's feelings get hurt.

iamwhoiam

lazygal wrote: »

There is no way any health care practitioner should state formula and breastfeeding are equal. That's simply untrue and goes against WHO guidelines no matter how much anyone's feelings get hurt.

Read what the poster wrote . That is not what she said . She said no one should have to feel they are not doing the right thing
My daughter didn’t breasfeed for medical reasons and she did the right thing for her own personal case
She didn’t need anyone telling her that what she fed her baby was inferior

lazygal

It is inferior. I used it myself. That's a fact. Medical issues exist. That's also a fact. But any health care practitioner stating formula is the same is breastfeeding are wrong. One is the biological norm and the other isn't.

iamwhoiam

lazygal wrote: »

It is inferior. I used it myself. That's a fact. Medical issues exist. That's also a fact. But any health care practitioner stating formula is the same is breastfeeding are wrong. One is the biological norm and the other isn't.

Just be grateful you don’t have a medical condition making it necessary to use formula . People don’t need be made feel inferior . Its not nice