Unable to keep friends

Faith

I agree with the suggestion about of seeing a professional counsellor, ideally a psychologist. You're not going to get the answers you need on a thread like this. There's not one easy answer; there's a complex picture involving how you see yourself, how you see others and how you relate to others as a result of the first two. We can see several examples of it on this thread alone: you respond angrily and defensively to posts you don't like, then deny you've responded in that way. There's more going on for you that a post on a forum could help with, and I'd say you'd really benefit from working with a psychologist to get a better understanding of yourself.

FriendFree93

Faith wrote: »

I agree with the suggestion about of seeing a professional counsellor, ideally a psychologist. You're not going to get the answers you need on a thread like this. There's not one easy answer; there's a complex picture involving how you see yourself, how you see others and how you relate to others as a result of the first two. We can see several examples of it on this thread alone: you respond angrily and defensively to posts you don't like, then deny you've responded in that way. There's more going on for you that a post on a forum could help with, and I'd say you'd really benefit from working with a psychologist to get a better understanding of yourself.

I would definitely be up for seeing someone about my issues. I seen someone before for a few sessions but didn't find them to be what I was looking for. I don't even know where I would begin finding someone better.

It can be frustrating to have people say that I was wrong in a situation like the one with my primary school friends. In that particular case a doctor told me to step away from their toxic behaviour. To hear people who don't know the ins and outs focus on that is certainly annoying but I am definitely not angry or defensive. I know that if I had let them exclude me more than they did that I was on a slippery slope to doing some serious damage to myself.

Im happy to read any advise given and take it all onboard but tone is not something that comes across in text all I can do is say again that I'm not being angry at all.

It's nice to know that other people have experienced similar situations and I will definitely try take a look at my behaviour with future friendships

Airyfairy12

Reading over the thread I cant see where the OP comes across as defensive or angry? All she's done is respond to peoples comments and add more info about the situation and the effects they had on her. She doesnt come across as angry at all.

FriendFree93

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Reading over the thread I cant see where the OP comes across as defensive or angry? All she's done is respond to peoples comments and add more info about the situation and the effects they had on her. She doesnt come across as angry at all.

Thanks very much. It can be hard to convey tone on here and if you disagree it's seen as defensive I think. I'm just trying to provide some insight into how these friendships have ended.

I'm sure I'm not faultless in some friendships ending. But then I have 1 or two friends/acquaintances who I have never had a fall out with and things are just natural. I also think losing someone gets to me more than to others. My partner said if one of his friends was nasty to him he would just walk away and that be that it wouldn't cost him a thought. I put way too much time and energy into wondering why someone doesn't like me and how I can change instead of just saying fup it that's their loss.

Wanderer2010

A lot of people in Personal Issues offer one suggestion and if the OP doesn't agree with it, they instantly play the "wow, OP I tried to help you and look how defensive you are being, I'm starting to think maybe the issue is with YOU" etc and words to that affect. Instead of just accepting that maybe the OP doesn't want to go down that particular route, they come back with more judgments and back-handed remarks. PI has a name for this and I can see why.

FriendFree93

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

A lot of people in Personal Issues offer one suggestion and if the OP doesn't agree with it, they instantly play the "wow, OP I tried to help you and look how defensive you are being, I'm starting to think maybe the issue is with YOU" etc and words to that affect. Instead of just accepting that maybe the OP doesn't want to go down that particular route, they come back with more judgments and back-handed remarks. PI has a name for this and I can see why.

Totally agree. I'm a regular poster on PI and boards in general and have seen this a lot.
It's hard to post the whole situation of a problem in a post too without dragging on for a really long post that people will lose interest in.

It's the person posting who has the problem and wants advice enough to reach out to strangers for help I think it's important not twist it making them feel worse. Of course disagree but in a nice way.

Ellie2008

Hi OP,

I've had some similar experiences to you with my schoolfriends.

I'm many years out of school now and a couple of years ago I had a big bust up with a group of friends who didn't invite me on a weekend away, I reacted by text (never a good idea!) very angrily and said things that upon reflection should not have been said. It was somewhat of a complicated situation there was five of us in the group (not in the same group in school one girl we picked up in college but it was the dynamic it became) and myself and another girl (I'll call her Sophie) were only surface polite to eachother after years of me avoiding her, as she hooked up with my now ex years ago (while I was with him) and then told everyone we knew expect me so I felt she tried to make me look like a fool. I think some of it had to do with the shifting dynamic in the group Sophie became the strongest personality in it, and given our relationship it wasn't going to be too comfortable for me. She also after years of being a bit of a mess and crying on nights out got her **** together, and a couple of the girls who would have for years been much closer to me ended up being better friends with her. When a wedding came around of a girl I'll call Anna I wasn't asked to be a BM and I was hurt by that a lot, and then not long afterwards they left me out of a weekend away apparently because it started as a plan to buy Sophie's wedding dress but didn't turn out that way. I'd always gone on the weekends to that particular place with them before.

Anyways sorry very long paragraph!

Bottom line - I lashed out when I shouldn't have. I regret not playing it cool to put it mildly, I don't especially miss the friendships though. I have questioned why that is, perhaps because we became friends when we were still in our formative years. I think the idea of being friends with girls from childhood is almost fairytale romantic unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way.

There was another element to the story in that myself and Anna the girl who I would have been closet to in that group in fact at one stage I probably would have referred to as my best friend, ended up having quite a toxic competitive friendship. Bizarrely what we were competing about was our friendships with people in our wider social circle. Anna would openly say she is very insecure and worries that people don't like her or find her dull. She's not totally off the mark as some of my more party party friends do find her dull but they don't dislike her. I wouldn't have considered myself insecure but whenever she would have digs and imply that I wasn't that good friends with someone because I hadn't heard X or go out of her way to mention something she'd be invited to, I'd find myself not rising above it but doing it back!!! As far as I'm concerned it ended up descending into toxic chaos, we are no longer in contact at all, I've no desire to be either because she brought out the green eyed insecure monster in me and I didn't like who I was. Also when I was upset and did lash out about the weekend away she said she wouldn't mind about something like that whereas I've been listening to her for years saying she felt left out of something or that such a situation made her feel insecure.

Sorry quite the ramble - I think what I'm trying to say is don't be blind to your own flaws. There are good times and bad times in life and I would expect my friends to support me in the bad, but people don't like being given out to or being told that they are bad for not inviting you or whatever.

Reflecting on my own behavior, unfortunately I hadn't learnt to control my extreme emotions like anger and hurt but I'm hoping being mindful of them will force me to wait before speaking etc. for at least a few days until I gain perspective. Whilst I don't regret losing the friendships of Sophie and Anna, if I had lost my temper like that with another group of friends I would have really regretted losing their friendships.

Not everyone has to conform to your subjective acceptable standard of behavior, its not about not being walked on or however you chose to see it, your BF is right learn to let some things slide and you'll be happier for it.

FriendFree93

Ellie2008

Sorry you had a similar situation. I definitely have flaws but from what I remember (it was years ) I never lashed out per se. I discussed my side but the fact was that they didn't want me included and made that clear. The way I see it is if someone is your friend then you are happy to have them around. I can't think of any of my friends current or previous who I wouldn't want on a holiday with me. Some friends are quieter than others, some have been big drinkers but people are different.

When I think of the primary school friends I've lost they were never friends with each other until they met me. One in particular was pure toxic. The other I miss very much but she made her choice when she deleted me on Facebook and got all her family to do the same.

I think because it's so frequent that it's why it makes me feel like I'm not important. Some people are the type to have people flock to them to become their friends. I never understood that either.

Big Bag of Chips

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Big Bag of Chips

FriendFree93 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I take some blame in that when someone hurts me I never let it slide and let my feelings be known if someone hurts me and I feel that has lost me all my friends because I'm not a push over.

Do you think people who have lots of friends are pushovers?

Some people seem to attract or be attracted to drama. I have never, in my life, had a falling out with a friend. Ever. I've had friendships drift apart, and I've lost touch with people over the years but I've never actually has a falling out with anyone. And I don't consider myself a pushover!

I have seen friends over the years fall out, I've seen friends have rows over fellas, I've seen friends have actual fist fights with each other on a night out. I just can't be doing with all that! I've no interest. I've no interest in confrontation. And the funny thing is the people involved in all those things always seem to be the same handful of people. The rest of the people I know just go out/meet up, have a bit craic together and go home!

Humans are flawed. Friends will inevitably let you down or disappoint you at some stage. Most likely unintentionally. Sometimes, you have to let things slide. Sometimes you have to give a person a chance. If you live by "1 strike and you're out" then you will find yourself, as you do now, with very few people around you.

Giving someone a chance, or letting the odd thing slide, isn't a sign of weakness or being a pushover. It's part of the give and take of life. I'm sure I've left friends down over time, but I would never deliberately set out to upset someone. I still have friends from primary school, and secondary school. I occasionally bump into people I was in college with. I have probably 3 very good friends from different ages in my life, and other friends are more acquaintances than friends.

I know people are saying that posters are being harsh on you by saying "it must be you", but the truth is, you are the one posting asking for advice, and as you say, you are the common denominator. You are unlikely to be the one completely at fault in all the fall outs, but the fact that you have fallen out with so many people leads me to think you may have an immature attitude to friendship, and the friends you make and attract (however briefly) have the same immaturity about them.

We continue to make friends through our entire life. We continue to meet new people all the time. Look to yourself and how you conduct yourself, and what you expect from a friendship. But remember, people are just people and nobody is perfect. Sometimes people will let you down. You just need to decide is it worth losing the friendship over. Sometimes it will be the end, more often than not it won't have to be.

FriendFree93

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Do you think people who have lots of friends are pushovers?

Some people seem to attract or be attracted to drama. I have never, in my life, had a falling out with a friend. Ever. I've had friendships drift apart, and I've lost touch with people over the years but I've never actually has a falling out with anyone. And I don't consider myself a pushover!

I have seen friends over the years fall out, I've seen friends have rows over fellas, I've seen friends have actual fist fights with each other on a night out. I just can't be doing with all that! I've no interest. I've no interest in confrontation. And the funny thing is the people involved in all those things always seem to be the same handful of people. The rest of the people I know just go out/meet up, have a bit craic together and go home!

Humans are flawed. Friends will inevitably let you down or disappoint you at some stage. Most likely unintentionally. Sometimes, you have to let things slide. Sometimes you have to give a person a chance. If you live by "1 strike and you're out" then you will find yourself, as you do now, with very few people around you.

Giving someone a chance, or letting the odd thing slide, isn't a sign of weakness or being a pushover. It's part of the give and take of life. I'm sure I've left friends down over time, but I would never deliberately set out to upset someone. I still have friends from primary school, and secondary school. I occasionally bump into people I was in college with. I have probably 3 very good friends from different ages in my life, and other friends are more acquaintances than friends.

I know people are saying that posters are being harsh on you by saying "it must be you", but the truth is, you are the one posting asking for advice, and as you say, you are the common denominator. You are unlikely to be the one completely at fault in all the fall outs, but the fact that you have fallen out with so many people leads me to think you may have an immature attitude to friendship, and the friends you make and attract (however briefly) have the same immaturity about them.

We continue to make friends through our entire life. We continue to meet new people all the time. Look to yourself and how you conduct yourself, and what you expect from a friendship. But remember, people are just people and nobody is perfect. Sometimes people will let you down. You just need to decide is it worth losing the friendship over. Sometimes it will be the end, more often than not it won't have to be.

No I don't think people with loads of friends are pushovers but I do think some people have an Aura about them that attracts people. And I think with the aura comes respect as people want to be your friend so they will treat you differently.
I think I lack that aura because I'm not very outgoing, I can be shy when I meet people, I'm not much of a drinker so I'm certainly not the life of any party. I disappear into the background when I am in a group of people so it's easy forget I am there therefore it's not a big deal if I'm not there so I'm no loss to people.

The couple of friends I do have that I have never fallen out with I think are on the same wavelength as me. They aren't dramatic, there's no bitching, they are also quiet people and we have a good time together but as I said earlier we don't see each other often only weddings and Christmas due to family and working far apart.

Airyfairy12

Some people are very charismatic and attract lots of people but not everyones that way and it doesnt mean theres anything wrong with you. Personally I wouldnt have the energy for lots of people, id be drained to death.
It sounds as if you have standards for your friends, which is a good thing, but not everyone is going to abide by those standards, you cant control how other people behave towards you so best thing to do is move on from the friendship if it's not meeting your needs.
Maybe youre just more compatible with introverted people? could you join a book club, drawing classes or some other activity youre interested in?

FriendFree93

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Some people are very charismatic and attract lots of people but not everyones that way and it doesnt mean theres anything wrong with you. Personally I wouldnt have the energy for lots of people, id be drained to death.
It sounds as if you have standards for your friends, which is a good thing, but not everyone is going to abide by those standards, you cant control how other people behave towards you so best thing to do is move on from the friendship if it's not meeting your needs.
Maybe youre just more compatible with introverted people? could you join a book club, drawing classes or some other activity youre interested in?

That's a good point. I probably do have standards and expect other people to act how I do. I find it difficult to understand how someone could leave someone out if they are their friend. To me that is hurtful and I'd never do it but other people aren't as considerate.

It would totally be draining having loads of friends especially when you have a family and work it can be difficult to keep up.

LegacyUser

I think you have a very different idea of yourself, to how you come across to others. You describe yourself as non dramatic, quiet, and loyal - but the stories you've told sound drama filled, not giving friends a chance/benefit of the doubt, and quite angry/demanding. I would find this tough going in a friend.

I'm not sure if it has happened more than once, but the girl saying that you were never that close stood out to me. Do you insert yourself too much into others lives, and smother them a bit? That could explain a few things - you push yourself into their lives, and then lash out when you are effectively told to back off (which I think is really what happened with the holiday too). Are people giving you hints/subtle to back off a bit, and you just aren't listening? That could explain why you have rows and falling-outs.

Re the holiday, maybe your two friends just wanted to go together. Maybe they get on better, have more in common, and want different things than you from a holiday. Were you actually ever invited? It sounded to me like you weren't invited, tried to push your way in, and then had a strop when they followed their own plan and booked without you. They are 'allowed' to do things without you!  There is something quite off about the way you tell the story though - the comment about money, and the 4th friend deleting you off Facebook. Like there's a lot of history there, and the holiday was the last straw for them.

In short, I think you need to consider whether you're pushing into people's lives too much. And you absolutely need to stop lashing out and never giving the benefit of the doubt. I know I just wouldn't want to be around that. I don't think you fade into the background at all. I think the opposite: that you're too much in the foreground, pushing for what you want from friends, and overreacting when you don't get it

Hildablue

I've been told that you attract the type of people you are friends with- in the main I agree with this but sometimes it feels like people take advantage of this! I've been really good friends with people who because circumstances change I have realised that things change and that because your circumstances change doesn't mean everyone will accept this or be happy for you!! Be yourself but put yourself out there with your friend too because everything is just a snapshot in time and they might think diffenrently about you tomorrow so let your friends make mistakes as you can too!!

FriendFree93

Compromise wrote: »

I'm not sure if it has happened more than once, but the girl saying that you were never that close stood out to me. Do you insert yourself too much into others lives, and smother them a bit?

Re the holiday, maybe your two friends just wanted to go together. Maybe they get on better, have more in common, and want different things than you from a holiday. Were you actually ever invited? It sounded to me like you weren't invited, tried to push your way in, and then had a strop when they followed their own plan and booked without you. They are 'allowed' to do things without you!

The girl who said we were never that close. How that friendship came about was I worked with her boyfriend and he asked me if I would invite her to an exercise class as he felt she didn't have much friends. I said sure. I text her asked her to join me, she did, we got friendly. Few lunches together, three classes a week. Couple of nights out. Then i left to go travelling for 2 years. In that two years I came home for Christmas and asked her to meet up. I was in touch with her a handful of times while i was gone mostly Snapchat/Facebook. So I wouldn't think I smoothered her in any way.

Actually I'm very much an introvert and am not very social so wouldn't think I smoother anyone as I wouldn't have the time to even if I wanted to.

The friends who excluded me from the holiday may have totally wanted to go just themselves but they should of said that instead of ringing me telling me they were planning it and then booking it on the side. If they simple said they didn't want me there, or just said yeah we may have handled that badly it would of been a different story. As I said though there is a lot more to that friendship than a simple holiday. I shouldnt of been friends with her in the first place after she was involved in helping an ex boyfriend of mine cheat on me and then not telling me while I continued to date him. So that friendship was toxic from the beginning.

Full Marx

OP having small arguments and fights is part of making friends. Its how you find boundaries and often you become better friends after it.

You sound like the type of person who people would be afraid to annoy and your friends walk on eggshells because of it. After months (years?)of this you then go nuclear over a relatively small slight and your friends just think feck this.

Chill out would be my advice!

kylith

FriendFree93 wrote: »

That's a sad reality ain't it?

I think also things hurt me more than others. I'm also a person of my word. If I tell you I will do something or be somewhere then I'm committed. I never go back on what I say so when other people do I find it hard to understand.

I've lost track of the amount of time where someone has said "we should go to xyz this weekend" the weekend comes and when you get in touch they are busy doing something else. Where as I will have cleared my schedule to be available.

This stood out to me, OP: you're clearing your schedule to be available for tentative plans. Do you then get irritated with the other people because of this?

Stop clearing the decks for no reason. Don't put off what you were planning to do with no definite plan from your friends. Relax, calm down, and stop being at other people's beck and call.