The impossible burger

patsy_mccabe

As in this weeks journal, dealer section.
The impossible burger, made totally from plants;
https://www.impossiblefoods.com/burger/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNeUihciDI

The part time boy

If vegans / vegetarians did it's a great life without meat why do they want products that look like meat

emaherx

So if we go completely meatless to save how much of the world's resources we use, do we need to cull all livestock or do they just stop eating drinking and producing greenhouse gases just because they are not being farmed?

OnDraught

emaherx wrote: »

So if we go completely meatless to save how much of the world's resources we use do we need to cull all livestock or do they just stop eating drinking and producing greenhouse gases just because they are not being farmed?

The idea is that it happens over time. Supply and demand and all that. If it's not in your interest financially to farm livestock you will stop doing it and it tails off.

emaherx

OnDraught wrote: »

The idea is that it happens over time. Supply and demand and all that. If it's not in your interest financially to farm livestock you will stop doing it and it tails off.

But where does the livestock go? Just left to wander the roads till they starve to death? Or we have to eat them all first

OnDraught

emaherx wrote: »

But where does the livestock go? Just left to wander the roads till they starve to death? Or we have to eat them all first

You could probably ship them off to China with the greyhounds. ðŸ˜

Ponguin

emaherx wrote: »

But where does the livestock go? Just left to wander the roads till they starve to death? Or we have to eat them all first

The whole reason so many exist is because they are breD and bred and bred by those in the agricultural industry, stop the avaricious farming methods and their population would decline over time

Hrududu

The part time boy wrote: »

If vegans / vegetarians did it's a great life without meat why do they want products that look like meat

Because they might like the taste of meat but not want an animal to die to eat it?

Ponguin

The part time boy wrote: »

If vegans / vegetarians did it's a great life without meat why do they want products that look like meat

It should probably allow more people to consider changing their lifestyle around

emaherx

Ponguin wrote: »

The whole reason so many exist is because they are breD and bred and bred by those in the agricultural industry, stop the avaricious farming methods and their population would decline over time

Yes, so many healthy livestock exist due to farming. Cut out the farming and the livestock will starve and die horriblely.

OnDraught

emaherx wrote: »

Yes, so many healthy livestock exist due to farming. Cut out the farming and the livestock will starve and die horriblely.

You're missing something here...

emaherx

OnDraught wrote: »

You're missing something here...

No don't think so.....

patsy_mccabe

Incredible irony but, if the vegans had their way, they would be responsible for the slaughter of over 6 million cattle in this country alone.

Buford T. Justice XIX

emaherx wrote: »

So if we go completely meatless to save how much of the world's resources we use, do we need to cull all livestock or do they just stop eating drinking and producing greenhouse gases just because they are not being farmed?

It'll be grand, we'll convert all the west of Ireland into wheat, coconut trees and potato plantations and produce the same amount of meat from that.:D

Waffletraktor

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

As in this weeks journal, dealer section.
The impossible burger, made totally from plants;
https://www.impossiblefoods.com/burger/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNeUihciDI

Fook sake patsy your after dragging in a few vegan types to spread their religon here.

emaherx

Stopping livestock farming in many parts of the world will have a very negative effect both envoirmently and economically.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160926-what-would-happen-if-the-world-suddenly-went-vegetarian

https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/reversing-desertification-with-livestock

Who2

Its horrible, the thoughts of all the screams of those plants as we slaughter them, and the smoke from all the machinery needed to process them, oh and i nearly forgot all the chemical fertilizer and sprays that's going to be needed. its o.k. though we know how honest all the food processors are.

Sam Kade

Lots of visitors to farming and forestry all of a sudden. That vegan earthling Ed on YouTube interviews meat eaters in London but you can see with your eyes closed that he uses actors and it's all scripted. He looks very pale and gaunt the vegan diet isn't agreeing with him. He does some protesting in London about dairy with placards saying about the cows children and how they cry after them, what a load of nonsense to pull at people heartstrings.

Sam Kade

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It'll be grand, we'll convert all the west of Ireland into wheat, coconut trees and potato plantations and produce the same amount of meat from that.:D

Last time they did that it didn't work out well, spuds for breakfast dinner and supper :eek:

freedominacup

Ponguin wrote: »

The whole reason so many exist is because they are breD and bred and bred by those in the agricultural industry, stop the avaricious farming methods and their population would decline over time

Which avaricious methods? And avaricious compared to what?

OnDraught

I'm no vegan, had a burger for lunch and a steak for dinner. The end of meat and dairy is as inevitable as electric cars though. Hopefully not in my lifetime.

Your inability to understand that it's not going to end in a worldwide cull is hilarious though.

emaherx

OnDraught wrote: »

Your inability to understand that it's not going to end in a worldwide cull is hilarious though.

So people maintain the grassland and keep cows for the craic and at considerable cost?

Sam Kade

Imagine the shock when a vegan eats food with animal product or wears an animal product and only realises it after I've heard of a few cases that happened and they think their lives are ruined as a result.

Sam Kade

I think the vegans have left the building, they can only spout their nonsense when no one argues with them.

OnDraught

emaherx wrote: »

So people maintain the grassland and keep cows for the craic and at considerable cost?

Nah, you're still not getting it. The cows will be largely gone naturally over 60 or 70 years or so. We'll breed less as the market shrinks. The grassland gets repurposed as the need for grazing diminishes. It'll end with a few hobbiests doing it to maintain a link with the old ways.

emaherx

OnDraught wrote: »

Nah, you're still not getting it. The cows will be largely gone naturally over 60 or 70 years or so. We'll breed less as the market shrinks. The grassland gets repurposed as the need for grazing diminishes. It'll end with a few hobbiests doing it to maintain a link with the old ways.

Your right I'm not getting it. Farming is a business if the land can't be used for livestock it will be planted for food crops or energy crops or forestry or else sold for development. So the livestock will need to be removed.

Also if the market shrinks and livestock farming is not viable ( won't have to shrink much for that to happen to be fair) farmers will cull their herds, they will have no other option as livestock are expensive to keep and they can't just open their gates and let them out. So a mass exodus from livestock farming will cause a mass culling of livestock.

Anyway no way the senario ever plays out where the majority of people go vegan or even vegetarian. Cows are just too damn tasty.

Sam Kade

OnDraught wrote: »

Nah, you're still not getting it. The cows will be largely gone naturally over 60 or 70 years or so. We'll breed less as the market shrinks. The grassland gets repurposed as the need for grazing diminishes. It'll end with a few hobbiests doing it to maintain a link with the old ways.

You obvioulsy haven't a clue how farming works, did you ever hear of crop rotation and giving the land a break by sowing grass? Not all land is suitable for cropping but don't let that get in the way of your deluded thinking.

Tilikum

emaherx wrote: »

Your right I'm not getting it. Farming is a business if the land can't be used for livestock it will be planted for food crops or energy crops or forestry or else sold for development. So the livestock will need to be removed.

Also if the market shrinks and livestock farming is not viable ( won't have to shrink much for that to happen to be fair) farmers will cull their herds, they will have no other option as livestock are expensive to keep and they can't just open their gates and let them out. So a mass exodus from livestock farming will cause a mass culling of livestock.

Anyway no way the senario ever plays out where the majority of people go vegan or even vegetarian. Cows are just too damn tasty.

This is where you're wrong. Scientists believe by the year 2050 they're will be far far more vegetarians/vegans. Not because of want but because of necessity. Have you any idea how much water it takes to make a burger.

Waffletraktor

Tilikum wrote: »

This is where you're wrong. Scientists believe by the year 2050 they're will be far far more vegetarians/vegans. Not because of want but because of necessity. Have you any idea how much water it takes to make a burger.

Scientists say lot's of things, usually in search of more funding money. What's the environmentalimpact of producing nuts like say, almonds/whalnuts?

emaherx

Tilikum wrote: »

Have you any idea how much water it takes to make a burger.

Yes thanks, being a farmer I have to pay for water provided to all of the drinkers on the farm.
I doubt it will require any more water in 30 year's time.

Sam Kade

Tilikum wrote: »

This is where you're wrong. Scientists believe by the year 2050 they're will be far far more vegetarians/vegans. Not because of want but because of necessity. Have you any idea how much water it takes to make a burger.

Scientists believe a lot of things, back on the 60's they believed people would be facing mass hunger by the year 2000, that didn't work out well. Today they are relying on computers to predict future climate but have been proven wrong.

OnDraught

emaherx wrote: »

Your right I'm not getting it. Farming is a business if the land can't be used for livestock it will be planted for food crops or energy crops or forestry or else sold for development. So the livestock will need to be removed.

Also if the market shrinks and livestock farming is not viable ( won't have to shrink much for that to happen to be fair) farmers will cull their herds, they will have no other option as livestock are expensive to keep and they can't just open their gates and let them out. So a mass exodus from livestock farming will cause a mass culling of livestock.

Anyway no way the senario ever plays out where the majority of people go vegan or even vegetarian. Cows are just too damn tasty.

You've got it now.

The cows are too tasty argument is surely the whole point of the product in question too. There isn't billions being pumped into products like these and insect based foods for no reason. The end is coming for traditional methods.

Again, I'm no veggie. I'm not sentimental about wether the livestock gets culled, sure they're not dying of natural causes anyway but it'll be a protracted affair.

emaherx

Sam Kade wrote: »

You obvioulsy haven't a clue how farming works, did you ever hear of crop rotation and giving the land a break by sowing grass? Not all land is suitable for cropping but don't let that get in the way of your deluded thinking.

At least twice as much of the land on Earth is usable as pasture compared to what is suitable for crops.

So it may take more land to produce meat but there is a lot more land suitable for producing meat.

tractorporn

Waffletraktor wrote:

Scientists say lot's of things, usually in search of more funding money. What's the environmentalimpact of producing nuts like say, almonds/whalnuts?

Almonds are causing desertification of California and avocados have had a huge impact on the water levels in Mexico but hey cattle drink water.

emaherx

OnDraught wrote: »

You've got it now.

The cows are too tasty argument is surely the whole point of the product in question too. There isn't billions being pumped into products like these and insect based foods for no reason. The end is coming for traditional methods.

Again, I'm no veggie. I'm not sentimental about wether the livestock gets culled, sure they're not dying of natural causes anyway but it'll be a protracted affair.

It's one thing replicating burgers and mince...... But I want steak

OnDraught

Sam Kade wrote: »

Scientists believe a lot of things, back on the 60's they believed people would be facing mass hunger by the year 2000, that worked out well. Today they are relying on computers to predict future climate but have been proven wrong.

Do you think people may have listened to the scientists and that's why it's gone so well?

emaherx

tractorporn wrote: »

Almonds are causing desertification of California and avocados have had a huge impact on the water levels in Mexico but hey cattle drink water.

Apparently removal of grazing herds also leads to desertification in many regions too!

Waffletraktor

OnDraught wrote: »

Do you think people may have listened to the scientists and that's why it's gone so well?

People did listen to scientisits, but they sold their knowledge to corporations more concerned with making billions rather than feeding billions.

Waffletraktor

tractorporn wrote: »

Almonds are causing desertification of California and avocados have had a huge impact on the water levels in Mexico but hey cattle drink water.

That's what i mean, the actual reality of producing commercial scale veg is riduculously input heavy.

Sam Kade

OnDraught wrote: »

You've got it now.

The cows are too tasty argument is surely the whole point of the product in question too. There isn't billions being pumped into products like these and insect based foods for no reason. The end is coming for traditional methods.

Again, I'm no veggie. I'm not sentimental about wether the livestock gets culled, sure they're not dying of natural causes anyway but it'll be a protracted affair.

Ok, we get it you are not a veggie but you are a dreamer.

Who2

its not the impossible burger. its the impossible conversation with a veggie.

OnDraught

Sam Kade wrote: »

Ok, we get it you are not a veggie but you are a dreamer.

I'm not the one dreaming I'm afraid.

OnDraught

Waffletraktor wrote: »

People did listen to scientisits, but they sold their knowledge to corporations more concerned with making billions rather than feeding billions.

Not really, the level of famine has dropped exponentially since the 60's as the other poster pointed out. People have never been so well fed. Most famines these days are as a result of civil unrest.

Tar.Aldarion

tractorporn wrote: »

Almonds are causing desertification of California and avocados have had a huge impact on the water levels in Mexico but hey cattle drink water.

Cattle use more water than almonds in California, even their feed (alfalfa and forages) use far more water. If they are growing too much there it's not really the almonds problem. http://uk.businessinsider.com/real-villain-in-the-california-drought-isnt-almonds--its-red-meat-2015-4?r=US&IR=T

emaherx wrote: »

It's one thing replicating burgers and mince...... But I want steak

They are currently working on that but obviously it's harder than burgers and mince etc to make. For the likes of "impossible foods" they make fake meat-like foods, so a steak would be hard. Different story for lab grown meat since it is actually meat.

The real factor is going to be price and it won't be too long until those lab grown meats are cheaper than traditionally farmed meat.

In 2013 it cost $325,000 to make a lab grown burger, in 2015 is cost $11.36 to make one, no idea what the price is now but when they perfect it it's efficiency and lack of resources/costs will make it much cheaper.

A lot of people won't change what they eat for ethics/environment, they will for price.

lazybones32

A few points from my brain:

1: A burger without meat isn't a burger; it's an abomination.
2: A farmer, reared on milk and animal protein Versus a vegan (eating imported fruit and veg, i might add) is no contest...
3: Animals eat other animals. To quote Troy McClure "if a cow got the chance, he'd eat you and your whole family".

The part time boy

Tilikum wrote: »

. Have you any idea how much water it takes to make a burger.

Have you any idea how tasty a medium rare steak is .....hummmmmm

pwurple

Yeauch, the ingredients list doesn't exactly get me excited. Is any of this "food"?

Really, is substituting this kind of highly processed item in anyone's interest? (Apart from the people producing and selling it, obvs)

End to end traceability of that genetically modified soy anyone?

Water, Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors, Leghemoglobin (soy), Yeast Extract, Salt, Soy Protein Isolate, Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Zinc, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12.

lazybones32

pwurple wrote: »

Water, Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors, Leghemoglobin (soy), Yeast Extract, Salt, Soy Protein Isolate, Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Zinc, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12.

Is water the main ingredient?! Lol

J.O. Farmer

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

They are currently working on that but obviously it's harder than burgers and mince etc to make. For the likes of "impossible foods" they make fake meat-like foods, so a steak would be hard. Different story for lab grown meat since it is actually meat.

The real factor is going to be price and it won't be too long until those lab grown meats are cheaper than traditionally farmed meat.

In 2013 it cost $325,000 to make a lab grown burger, in 2015 is cost $11.36 to make one, no idea what the price is now but when they perfect it it's efficiency and lack of resources/costs will make it much cheaper.

Growing a burger in a lab is one thing.

Growing a burger in a lab for sale for human consumption is another thing altogether. The regulations alone will keep the expenses higher than the cost of rearing cattle.

Mac Taylor

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It'll be grand, we'll convert all the west of Ireland into wheat, coconut trees and potato plantations and produce the same amount of meat from that.:D

Buford that's just plane ridiculous..........with some of the winters we've had recently we should look at paddy fields:D

Base price

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

As in this weeks journal, dealer section.
The impossible burger, made totally from plants;
https://www.impossiblefoods.com/burger/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNeUihciDI

Kill it, cook it, eat it - simple