Damage to washing machine/ curtains who's liability

Baby01032012

New tenants just moved in.

Decided to wash living room curtains in the washing machine. These are large heavy long curtains for 3 windows. They ring to let me know. Curtains are stuck mid cycle with drum full of water. Can't switch off or restart or drain. I'm getting make so I can find out manufacturer and agent. If machine is broken and curtains damaged who's liability? Washing machine is relatively new.

punisher5112

They damaged them so they would be responsible.

Washing machine is something must be provided but their negligence caused it to break.

I would suggest putting some rules in writing to hopefully prevent this stupidity happening again.

You could take the costs from deposit at end of tenancy but have proof and receipts.

TheBlock

Baby01032012 wrote: »

New tenants just moved in.

Decided to wash living room curtains in the washing machine. These are large heavy long curtains for 3 windows. They ring to let me know. Curtains are stuck mid cycle with drum full of water. Can't switch off or restart or drain. I'm getting make so I can find out manufacturer and agent. If machine is broken and curtains damaged who's liability? Washing machine is relatively new.

Did they let you know before they put the wash on or when they realised they had a problem?

Both of you are responsible I'd say. Washing machines have max loads they can take and tenant should have seen this marked on the machine, You have given them permission so have to shoulder some of the blame.

Any washing machine repair man should be able to drain the machine and open the door call out charge about €80 - €100. Machine made need repairs though curtains will be just wet

TheBlock

TheBlock wrote: »

.......... You have given them permission so have to shoulder some of the blame.............

They rang to let him know there was a problem, not to ask permission.

100% the tenants fault, they should pay for all & any costs incurred to rectify this mess that is of their doing.

mikemac2

There are YouTube videos that will show how to drain the machine

I was clueless for many years but once I found a good video it was all I needed.

You could ask your tenants to have a go before the handyman gets called. I'm guessing the pump is blocked. If so, not a big deal and a new machine will not be needed

Baby01032012

Sorry to be clear they rang me 1-2 days after they decided to wash the curtains.

737max

drain machine and it probably will work again.

if curtains have "directions for care" label and it advises not to machine wash then they are liable for replacement of curtains.

Bitches Be Trypsin

Perhaps you should have had the curtains clean before they moved in?

PhoenixParker

As others have said, drain the machine and there's a 99% chance it'll work.

Did they stuff all the curtains in at once? A modern washing machine should be well able to handle one or two curtains even or big windows.

Also in terms of what they might owe you, bear in mind that what they owe you is the value of a secondhand washing machine of whatever age your machine is and similarly a secondhand pair of curtains. You may need to cover the difference between those values and "new".

737max

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

Perhaps you should have had the curtains clean before they moved in?

What grounds do you have to surmise such a thing?

Bitches Be Trypsin

737max wrote: »

What grounds do you have to surmise such a thing?

More courtesy than anything else, have a house clean when people move in.

The Diddakoi

Washing machine probably just stopped mid wash as it is overloaded.

If machine won't drain when set to drain, have a look for a catch, which is often under the flap where the drain filter is.
Open door, remove the load, and then the machine should then work as usual.

Curtains could be rewashed in one of those large washing machines outside Tesco's etc, depending on material they are made of.

737max

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

More courtesy than anything else, have a house clean when people move in.

You jump to conclusions based on scant information.

cruizer101

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

Perhaps you should have had the curtains clean before they moved in?

Perhaps tenants shouldn't have gotten the curtains dirty. Oh wait I'm jumping to assumption there.

Tenants liable op, whilst you do have deposit you would be better to get money back sooner. But see if you can fix yourself first

Baby01032012

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

More courtesy than anything else, have a house clean when people move in.

The house was completely refurbished, everything brand new. There may have been some minor work after the curtains were put up that resulted in dust on them. However when I inspected I didn't see any dust on the curtains.

TheChizler

We're talking about liability but there's no evidence of any cost or damage yet. Drain the machine, get the curtains out, and reassess. Are you even sure they weigh more than the machine max? I've had cheap washing machines give up on me mid-cycle with half loads, draining them fixed it. Could be nothing.

mikeybrennan

It's a blocked filter or pump

Not strictly damage

davindub

Baby01032012 wrote: »

The house was completely refurbished, everything brand new. There may have been some minor work after the curtains were put up that resulted in dust on them. However when I inspected I didn't see any dust on the curtains.

I suppose the good part is they cared enough to wash the curtains.

I don't think the machine would stop like that unless there is a drainage issue, check pipes aren't pinched, filter is clean, you can drain below. Once the blockage is cleared, it should just start working again.

You could bill them, but I would only do so if sure they caused it, by just putting on a wash doesn't sound like they were reckless.

punisher5112

davindub wrote: »

I suppose the good part is they cared enough to wash the curtains.

I don't think the machine would stop like that unless there is a drainage issue, check pipes aren't pinched, filter is clean, you can drain below. Once the blockage is cleared, it should just start working again.

You could bill them, but I would only do so if sure they caused it, by just putting on a wash doesn't sound like they were reckless.

Of course they are curtains were said to be very big and if wet would weigh more then most machines in rentals which tend to be 7kg.

If they had done one at a time it could still be well overloaded.

Sure the sister put on a wash at my dads the other day and I just happened to be there she put a wash on with 5 small items but still managed to close the door with an arm hanging out of small top... It flooded the kitchen.

TheChizler

punisher5112 wrote: »

Of course they are curtains were said to be very big and if wet would weigh more then most machines in rentals which tend to be 7kg.

7 kg is the dry weight. I'd be surprised if they weighed more than that. Maybe.

davindub

punisher5112 wrote: »

Of course they are curtains were said to be very big and if wet would weigh more then most machines in rentals which tend to be 7kg.

If they had done one at a time it could still be well overloaded.

Sure the sister put on a wash at my dads the other day and I just happened to be there she put a wash on with 5 small items but still managed to close the door with an arm hanging out of small top... It flooded the kitchen.

yes well that would be reckless

jamesthepeach

Just goes to show the issues caused by furnished lettings.
If only the govt would allow unfurnished lets you wouldnt have any of this sh1t at all.

Op,.I wouldn't bother getting them new curtains or even cleaning the existing ones. Just leave them with the curtains they damaged and dump them at the end of the tenancy.
Just go and drain the machine yourself or better yet get a friend to to it and pretend they are a handyman with a lot of Tut tutting and you shouldn't be adjusting the washing machine talk.

Maybe that will learn them. And save you a few quid.

And for next let just strip out all furniture apart from white goods. Even the beds.and mattresses and go as.unfurnisbed as you are allowed.to be by the govt.

the_syco

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Just goes to show the issues caused by furnished lettings.
If only the govt would allow unfurnished lets you wouldnt have any of this sh1t at all.

Unfurnished still has to include "laundry facilities".

=-=

OP; is there a chance that the curtains smelt, and/or did you inform them that the place was recently refurbed? This (cleaning everything) could be them running off a checklist of things they do when they move into a new place.

If it's one curtain in the machine, meh. But if multiple curtains, I'd be saying that they need to cough up money for the repair.

jamesthepeach

the_syco wrote: »

Unfurnished still has to include "laundry facilities".

=-=

OP; is there a chance that the curtains smelt, and/or did you inform them that the place was recently refurbed? This (cleaning everything) could be them running off a checklist of things they do when they move into a new place.

If it's one curtain in the machine, meh. But if multiple curtains, I'd be saying that they need to cough up money for the repair.

I did mention the govt not allowing proper unfurnished, but in the main I was referring to damage to the curtains.
But it would solve any problem of them putting an armchair into the washing machine too I guess

listermint

This thread is an example of the nuclear option when the issue is no where near that.

Jeepers OP, just go around or have someone go around and drain the machine.

Washine machines are far more resilient than a couple of curtains putting them in washing machine heaven.

There was no need for the nuclear option and talk of compensation.

Do people even communicate anymore or is it all blame game on all sides..........

mikeybrennan

Washing machine stuck mid cycle-blocked filter or pump

Hardly worthy of a thread

Could just as easily argue tenants should be seeking compensation for lack of facilities while landlord repairs machine

Graham

mikeybrennan wrote: »

Could just as easily argue tenants should be seeking compensation for lack of facilities while landlord repairs machine

You couldn't really. Unless you knew

1) the machine hadn't been repaired
2) the repair took an unreasonable amount of time.

jon1981

Tenants fault, did he curtains not have a "dry clean only" symbol on them!?

Browney7

If the tenants put a few towels in the washing machine and it got stuck mid cycle would we be even having this conversation? Can you actually definitively prove that the curtains caused the washing machine to malfunction?

Graham

Browney7 wrote: »

If the tenants put a few towels in the washing machine and it got stuck mid cycle would we be even having this conversation?

Are the tea-towels in question the same size and weight as 'large heavy long curtains for 3 windows'?

wally79

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I did mention the govt not allowing proper unfurnished, but in the main I was referring to damage to the curtains.
But it would solve any problem of them putting an armchair into the washing machine too I guess

So you'd like renters to have to source cookers washing machines etc and lug them around with the rest of their gear.

Do you own a moving company?

737max

That's how it works in Germany and I don't hear people complaining whereas in Ireland you'll hear people complaining about the grotty furniture and equipment in the property they are renting.

Sam Kade

mikemac2 wrote: »

There are YouTube videos that will show how to drain the machine

I was clueless for many years but once I found a good video it was all I needed.

You could ask your tenants to have a go before the handyman gets called. I'm guessing the pump is blocked. If so, not a big deal and a new machine will not be needed

Yeah let them make sh1te of the machine with the owners permission.

wally79

737max wrote: »

That's how it works in Germany and I don't hear people complaining whereas in Ireland you'll hear people complaining about the grotty furniture and equipment in the property they are renting.

Oh that's how it works in Germany. Well then you win

737max

No, the renter wins. Rents are much lower.

wally79

737max wrote: »

No, the renter wins. Rents are much lower.

Yeah that's the reason

_Brian

I saw in a local FaceBook group my tenant was looking for advice on how to taken down and clean a roller blind.

Some of the suggestions were manic and she was taking them all on board.

It was unprofessional but I just posted.

"That's my roller blind, please don't do this"

I got a text as apology within minutes and no problems since.

737max

wally79 wrote: »

Yeah that's the reason

Yes, it is. professional landlords have a product they can market at a more lower price as they have fewer inputs and for tenants buying or moving furniture at the start of the tenancy is a natural part of tenancy process.
The product is returned to white-wall condition at the end of a longer lease period to the benefit of both renter and landlord.

Do you have any experience of the German rental model? You haven't disclosed anything that suggests that you do. If not it might come as a shock to you to know that most German rental apartments don't even have an EBK.

wally79

737max wrote: »

Yes, it is. professional landlords have a product they can market at a more lower price as they have fewer inputs and for tenants buying or moving furniture at the start of the tenancy is a natural part of tenancy process.
The product is returned to white-wall condition at the end of a longer lease period to the benefit of both renter and landlord.

Do you have any experience of the German rental model? You haven't disclosed anything that suggests that you do. If not it might come as a shock to you to know that most German rental apartments don't even have an EBK.

I didnt realise second hand white goods were so expensive

737max

You are not a good debater.

Dogcatcher

Next time rent your property to Adults who are house trained

wally79

737max wrote: »

You are not a good debater.

Sorry for not referencing German property law.

Your opening point was that the inability to give fully unfurnished apartments was the reason rental prices here were so much higher

I questioned whether the presence of some second hand white goods really made that much difference or was it other less simplistic factors

737max

I live in a very wealthy German City with greater geographic and planning constraints on supply side than Dublin but somehow rents are considerably cheaper despite high demand for property.
The onerous obligations of landlords to their tenants without equal weighted obligations of tenants to their landlords and unfair taxation on the activity(not profit) and are among the reasons why I have chosen not to invest in Irish residential rental property.

737max

wally79 wrote: »

other less simplistic factors

Is that your attempt at a rebuttal? other undefined factors which you can't make tangible so you leave it opaque and hope that those who aren't overly familiar with the Irish property market but have certain prejudices confirm their own prejudices in the absence of proof.

wally79

737max wrote: »

Is that your attempt at a rebuttal? other undefined factors which you can't make tangible so you leave it opaque and hope that those who aren't overly familiar with the Irish property market but have certain prejudices confirm their own prejudices in the absence of proof.

Yes you've got me

Guy Sajer

mikemac2 wrote: »

There are YouTube videos that will show how to drain the machine

I was clueless for many years but once I found a good video it was all I needed.

You could ask your tenants to have a go before the handyman gets called. I'm guessing the pump is blocked. If so, not a big deal and a new machine will not be needed

Why would they do that when there is perfect opportunity to claim some of the deposit to repair or get a new machine?

The_Conductor

mikeybrennan wrote: »

It's a blocked filter or pump

Not strictly damage

I've had to replace a few washing machines- and have the Samsung local engineer for Dublin and Galway on speed-dial. It might be a blocked filter- or pump- however, it also might be any of a long and meandering list of other possible issues, not least of which would be the belt- esp. if the machine was overloaded.

The OP has stated its a small capacity 7kg machine- and the tenant put 3 sets of heavy curtains in it. It beggars belief that it wasn't seriously overloaded. An overloaded machine is no more or less likely to have a blocked filter- than an underloaded machine. The information given- references a seriously overloaded machine- it doesn't give any inherent reason that there would be a blockage.

Modern machines do not autodrain- if they stop mid cycle.

The person who posted the link to Youtube- showing how to drain a machine stuck mid-cycle- is to be commended- its the obvious first step. There-after, figure how to unlock the door- without breaking it- and run a few tests with something small (perhaps a towel or a pair of jeans).

The bigger issue here- is its a small 7kg machine- and the tenants somehow managed to squeeze large heavy curtains into it- probably using brute force.

I know 7kg machines were standard sized machines, once upon a time- but they're not anymore.

Baby01032012

Thanks for all responses.

To give an update. I was there Thursday evening. Spent 2 hours with them. Showed them how to drain and unblock filter. They finished draining and were to try that night with small items. And let me know Friday so I could service agent if still not working. No word from them Friday. I went there Saturday as new furniture was arriving as agreed. Washing machine still not working. They had drained it and tried to wash curtains again. They suggested must be something wrong with machine before they came.

New boiler and pump making noise every hour at night. I rang my plumber. Could be leak or faulty ball cock meaning tank refilling all the time. He was away for weekend he agreed to call Tuesday or Wednesday. Today they ring me that trip switch for pump keeps tripping. I told them I'd pass on the info. And try and get him there tomorrow. Now they want him before they go to work between 6.30 and 8am. Tradesmen don't work those hours. I've asked if they can access the apartment during the day in the interest of getting this fixed. No as they want their privacy respected.

I know there are issues but am I'm trying to get them sorted, am I being unreasonable in terms of access.

They put in curtains, which shouldn't be in a washing machine anyway (like who in the name of god puts curtains in a washing machine) and break the machine. They then put them in again!!!!

I'd be thinking of getting rid of them to be honeat and getting in tenants capable of looking after a house and ones who aren't just down right awkward and demanding.

punisher5112

They can't refuse entry if emergency or remedial work is needed.

They can agree a time that suits but the hours you state is a no go for sure unless you could get someone but highly doubt it.

Tell them if they need jobs done you need access.

I would recommend in writing by text, via email and or a letter.

Leave it to them so they can't say you wouldn't do it.

The_Conductor

Baby01032012 wrote: »

New tenants just moved in.

Decided to wash living room curtains in the washing machine. These are large heavy long curtains for 3 windows. They ring to let me know. Curtains are stuck mid cycle with drum full of water. Can't switch off or restart or drain. I'm getting make so I can find out manufacturer and agent. If machine is broken and curtains damaged who's liability? Washing machine is relatively new.

These people have just moved in.
They are still within their first 6 months.
They are behaving inappropriately and in an unreasonable manner.
Give them their notice and terminate the tenancy.
Sorry- they put the curtains back in the washing machine?
Really?
Any now they're complaining about the heating system- but refusing reasonable access to the unit to have it assessed and repaired.

Whatever about getting confused over the washing machine- to deliberately continue trying to break the machine- and to refuse reasonable repair work- honestly- it sounds like they are trying to thrash the place- and blame you for it at the same time- perhaps to take a case with the RTB.

Do absolutely everything by the book- but if it is possible to terminate the tenancy- do it- these people sound like nightmares.

If you cannot or will not terminate the tenancy- offer them a Saturday appointment for the heating- be fair and reasonable- but do the whole lot in writing- you may very well need a paper trail down the road.