Estate agent tactics

starmc14

First time, single buyer, just out bid on house #3.
Live in a town in the West of Ireland and one particular estate agent franchise has the monopoly on the market so cannot be avoided.

Was bidding on a house up to today. As of Monday it was me and one other person bidding. The other person increased their bid by €500. Agent rings me to ask what I want to do. I go €1k more. Agent says he is calling the vendor and is recommending closing out and that he will call me tomorrow (Tuesday).
Low and behold no phonecall.

Call the office today and he was out. Calls me back 20mins later. Apparently the person I was bidding against couldn't match my offer but a 3rd party has stepped in and put an offer of €2k more than my final offer yesterday. I asked why wasn't I contacted to be told that he called me about 6 times yesterday and left voicemails for me to contact him. I have no missed calls or messages and told him this. He said impossible as his office were trying to get me all day.

He goes if I bid another €2k it should seal the deal. I refuse to as I genuinely am at my upper limit. I get the impression it was a rouse to get more for the seller. Am I kidding myself in that the new bidder is possibly a ghost and it is a tactic to make a minimum price for the vendor? My last bid was €11k over the original asking price.

So disheartened by the whole process. Impossible as a sole purchaser.

LirW

Hold tight and see what happens. Could easily be that he just tries getting more out of you, wouldn't be surprised if you get a call asking if you're still interested because said 3rd party withdrew the offer. 
Can also be that it's genuine, then there's nothing you can do but keep looking.

eeguy

Is there any way to contact the seller directly and cut out the middle man?

Singer73

Would be interesting if you get a call and then you roll back 1k and see what happens

starmc14

eeguy wrote:

Is there any way to contact the seller directly and cut out the middle man?

Tried this on another house with the same agent and it didn't end well. Agent refused to deal with me for a month 😞

mloc123

starmc14 wrote: »

Tried this on another house with the same agent and it didn't end well. Agent refused to deal with me for a month 😞

In reality the agent hardly cares about 1-2k difference. That is equal to about 10-30e in commission. The seller on the other hand probably cares much more about every thousand extra on sale price.

davindub

Unfortunately you don't know. You will get a sense of the different agents and if they can be trusted when they say things like that.

First the sake of 2k you might be able to close or the EA has no intention of closing. But you know you may not have to pay immediately? The closing can drag on a bit so time to raise the 2k.

That being said turn up at other viewings where the agent will be there...

starmc14

davindub wrote:

First the sake of 2k you might be able to close or the EA has no intention of closing. But you know you may not have to pay immediately? The closing can drag on a bit so time to raise the 2k.

I did think of this but after being told on Monday evening that he was ringing the vendor to close out and then today suddenly needing 4k more than my last bid to close out, I am reluctant to trust the EA and put myself in further debt to raise the extra €€.

Askthe EA

starmc14 wrote: »

I did think of this but after being told on Monday evening that he was ringing the vendor to close out and then today suddenly needing 4k more than my last bid to close out, I am reluctant to trust the EA and put myself in further debt to raise the extra €€.

So don't offer an extra 4k. Only offer what your willing to pay.

I was the EA in this exact situation. Received an offer which I told the bidder was likely acceptable but that I had to get the vendors go ahead. It took me best part of a day to reach my client. He wanted to think about it. Fine.

Another bid 5k higher came in. Original bidder pissed off. Probably thinks I'm dishonest but contracts are being signed today.

These kind of things do happen.

davo10

I could never understand why EA's get the blame when a bid isn't accepted, it's not in their gift to accept it, only the vendor can do that. And, when the op comes to sell a property and the shoe is on the other foot, I am not sure the op will be inclined to accept any offer below the maximum that can be achieved.

irishgeo

Askthe EA wrote: »

So don't offer an extra 4k. Only offer what your willing to pay.

I was the EA in this exact situation. Received an offer which I told the bidder was likely acceptable but that I had to get the vendors go ahead. It took me best part of a day to reach my client. He wanted to think about it. Fine.

Another bid 5k higher came in. Original bidder pissed off. Probably thinks I'm dishonest but contracts are being signed today.

These kind of things do happen.

It's the lack of transparency that's the problem.

Some Agents do invent bids to get a higher price.

I think the bids should be made public on the website of the house for sale and perhaps the initials of bidder.

Kinda like eBay where you can see the price history of the bids.

1641

irishgeo wrote: »

.

Some Agents do invent bids to get a higher price.

Probably does happen occasionally but not as often as it is alleged to be. How many threads have you seen here where a bidder is getting priced out and wonders, or is prompted here to wonder, about a phantom bid ? If it was half as widespread as alleged evidence would surely emerge.

My tuppence worth is that phantom bids, when they occasionally happen, are more likely to be the work of the vendor (via a "friend"). A vendor's motivation and advantage is much greater than the Estate Agent's.

Wheeliebin30

I thought they have to have bids submitted by email now as to show their not bluffing as many were caught doing this year's ago?

davo10

irishgeo wrote: »

It's the lack of transparency that's the problem.

Some Agents do invent bids to get a higher price.

I think the bids should be made public on the website of the house for sale and perhaps the initials of bidder.

Kinda like eBay where you can see the price history of the bids.

Have you proof that some agents invent bids? This is an accusation often bandied about but it tends to be anacdotal rather than substantiated. What is your proof for making that statement?

What's to stop an EA, or indeed the vendor from putting bids up on a website?

If I was bidding on a property, I certainly would not want the public to be able to view it, all that would happen in that case would be fictitious names/letters would be used, or as sometimes happens, bids are made through solicitors.

Askthe EA

davo10 wrote: »

irishgeo wrote: »

It's the lack of transparency that's the problem.

Some Agents do invent bids to get a higher price.

I think the bids should be made public on the website of the house for sale and perhaps the initials of bidder.

Kinda like eBay where you can see the price history of the bids.

Have you proof that some agents invent bids? This is an accusation often bandied about but it tends to be anacdotal rather than substantiated. What is your proof for making that statement?/quote]

Absolutely agree. Very few agents will risk their license and livelihood for the sake of a few euro. And that's all it really is. 5000 is worth about 75 to the office and less again to the agent. And that's before tax.

Seth Brundle

davo10 wrote: »

What's to stop an EA, or indeed the vendor from putting bids up on a website?

Presumably EAs won't put them on the advert page because it will highlight their absurd asking prices.

Askthe EA

kbannon wrote: »

[quote="davo10;

Presumably EAs won't put them on the advert page because it will highlight their absurd asking prices.[/quote]

I don't understand? Asking prices are on the ad?

Seth Brundle

Askthe EA wrote: »

I don't understand? Asking prices are on the ad?

But they aren't shown against the bids.
Houses are usually advertised well below the expected sale price to lure people in.

Askthe EA

kbannon wrote: »

Askthe EA wrote: »

I don't understand? Asking prices are on the ad?

But they aren't shown against the bids.
Houses are usually advertised well below the expected sale price to lure people in.

I'm sorry. I still don't understand your point. The final sale price goes on the register anyway?

Seth Brundle

EAs frequently undervalue properties for sale. By putting either the current bid, or indeed, the bid history, on the advert it would introduce transparency that shows the EAs low initial valuations

irishgeo

Askthe EA wrote: »

I'm sorry. I still don't understand your point. The final sale price goes on the register anyway?

It's advertised cheaper to get the bids up.

The sale doesn't appear for months on the register.

irishgeo

davo10 wrote: »

Have you proof that some agents invent bids? This is an accusation often bandied about but it tends to be anacdotal rather than substantiated. What is your proof for making that statement?

What's to stop an EA, or indeed the vendor from putting bids up on a website?

If I was bidding on a property, I certainly would not want the public to be able to view it, all that would happen in that case would be fictitious names/letters would be used, or as sometimes happens, bids are made through solicitors.

If phaeton bids doesn't exist then why is it that some houses a person is bidding on suddenly gets a 2k bid above your bid and the months later the house is still unsold.


Not all agents are squeaky clean.

mugsymugsy

OP bid what you value the house for and what you can afford and are happy to pay. Remember the estate agent is working for the vendor and it's the vendor that is likely to be the one that wants to ensure they get their extra 5k etc. You will only ever find out what the final price is up on the property price register.

I would suggest that you email the estate agent this evening do it out of office hours so you have a record of the date and bid in writing. State you are mortgage approved and in a position to move on the property etc (if this is the case)

On a slightly seperate note does anyone know if any estate agents work on a sliding scale. Say 1.5% for up to 200k but anything additional they get X%. As the estate agent who posts here (thanks for posting!) Says if it's a flat % you would think simply isn't worth risking their livelihood for an extra 100 euro.

Askthe EA

irishgeo wrote: »

davo10 wrote: »

Have you proof that some agents invent bids? This is an accusation often bandied about but it tends to be anacdotal rather than substantiated. What is your proof for making that statement?

What's to stop an EA, or indeed the vendor from putting bids up on a website?

If I was bidding on a property, I certainly would not want the public to be able to view it, all that would happen in that case would be fictitious names/letters would be used, or as sometimes happens, bids are made through solicitors.

If phaeton bids doesn't exist then why is it that some houses a person is bidding on suddenly gets a 2k bid above your bid and the months later the house is still unsold.


Not all agents are squeaky clean.

Failed engineer's report? Bidder changed their mind?

For sure not all agents are honest but more often than not, they are.

starmc14

OP here. My bid was what I thought the house in it's current condition was worth. Based in conjunction with what other properties in the same estate sold for previously. I totally understand that the agent is working for the vendor to get the best price. Guess I am just disappointed. Lesson learned not to get emotionally involved. On to the next! Thanks all for your input.

Gruffalo22

mugsymugsy wrote: »

OP bid what you value the house for and what you can afford and are happy to pay. Remember the estate agent is working for the vendor and it's the vendor that is likely to be the one that wants to ensure they get their extra 5k etc. You will only ever find out what the final price is up on the property price register.

I would suggest that you email the estate agent this evening do it out of office hours so you have a record of the date and bid in writing. State you are mortgage approved and in a position to move on the property etc (if this is the case)

On a slightly seperate note does anyone know if any estate agents work on a sliding scale. Say 1.5% for up to 200k but anything additional they get X%. As the estate agent who posts here (thanks for posting!) Says if it's a flat % you would think simply isn't worth risking their livelihood for an extra 100 euro.

If EA gets high price for property then they have done a 'great job' and will be recommended to others for their next 5k

Askthe EA

Gruffalo22 wrote: »

If EA gets high price for property then they have done a 'great job' and will be recommended to others for their next 5k

This is true, but if they get 50k above, they got their valuation wrong and the market did all the work!!!!!

Graham

starmc14 wrote: »

OP here. My bid was what I thought the house in it's current condition was worth. Based in conjunction with what other properties in the same estate sold for previously. I totally understand that the agent is working for the vendor to get the best price. Guess I am just disappointed. Lesson learned not to get emotionally involved. On to the next! Thanks all for your input.

It's worth remembering that the property price register is at best several months behind the current market so doesn't reflect recent sale agreed figures. If you're basing offers on matching previous sales prices in a rising market, you're likely to keep getting disappointed.

Think of it this way; if your offer had been accepted now it would probably be Oct/Nov/Dec before the sale actually went through. Depending on the speed of your solicitor and the price register, the price you paid might not appear until early next year. During that time, prices could have risen another 5% - 10%.

Gruffalo22

Askthe EA wrote: »

This is true, but if they get 50k above, they got their valuation wrong and the market did all the work!!!!!

I know of 2 houses on same road for sale recently. 1st which was beautiful sold for 100k over asking with loads of bidders 415k vs 515k.

Similar but smaller house on same road valued at 450k. On the market for a few months and price has been reduced recently as no offers

The same auctioneer got it wrong both times but every house is different!

dinneenp

Ideal situation would be that there is a record of every offer kept. If a potential buyer thinks there's a fake offer they contact the regulator who has the power to check the records.
Sounds simple but I presume will never happen here.

Graham

dinneenp wrote: »

Ideal situation would be that there is a record of every offer kept. If a potential buyer thinks there's a fake offer they contact the regulator who has the power to check the records.
Sounds simple but I presume will never happen here.

I thought that's exactly what is meant to happen? Must go digging.....

Askthe EA

dinneenp wrote: »

Ideal situation would be that there is a record of every offer kept. If a potential buyer thinks there's a fake offer they contact the regulator who has the power to check the records.
Sounds simple but I presume will never happen here.

Yup. We must keep a log of every offer received, who made it, their contact details, when it was made and clients decision.

irishgeo

Askthe EA wrote: »

Yup. We must keep a log of every offer received, who made it, their contact details, when it was made and clients decision.

Who can request to see that info?

daheff

davo10 wrote: »

I could never understand why EA's get the blame when a bid isn't accepted, it's not in their gift to accept it, only the vendor can do that.

Its because agents give buyers the impression that their bid will seal the deal....leading to buyers getting ecstatic over the prospect. Then when the seller doesnt accept or gets a better offer, the buyers blame the agent for misinforming them.

EA shouldnt promise what it cant deliver. Accept bid and pass it on.

Askthe EA

irishgeo wrote: »

Askthe EA wrote: »

Yup. We must keep a log of every offer received, who made it, their contact details, when it was made and clients decision.

Who can request to see that info?

The PSRA. Contact them if you have concerns.

fg1406

How long does it normally take EA to revert once you've made a bid? We are the over-bidders in this case. We've made counter bids on the underbidder twice but have heard nothing in over a week. I don't want tobrung and sound eager to them. Is this normal? (Sorry FTB here!)

Bellview

Askthe EA wrote:

The PSRA. Contact them if you have concerns.

If going to prsa you will need evidence of bids etc . I had a dealing with an ea where a hoyse we were bidding on was sold for 30k less than my bid when I viewed house on property register. I considered going to prsa but since all dealing over the phone it would turn into a he said she said conversation and I don't have time for that.
On the plus side we actually found a better house within 3 months so in some ways we feel lucky that we were messed about..but that ea is a lowlife in my opinion and it's interesting that he was OK to sell for 30k lower than another bid...folks like this guy give ea a bad name

Graham

Do you know if the eventual purchaser discovered defects in the property after a survey that may have warranted a €30k+ drop in asking price?

jimmycrackcorm

Bellview wrote:

I considered going to prsa but since all dealing over the phone it would turn into a he said she said conversation and I don't have time for that.
....
but that ea is a lowlife in my opinion and it's interesting that he was OK to sell for 30k lower than another bid...folks like this guy give ea a bad name

If it were me I'd make an effort to try find the previous owner to let them know, especially if any bids were in sent emails. At some point you may want to sell your own house and you wouldn't be to happy if the EA undersold at a preference to someone he knew.

Of course there may be a legitimate reason, but I don't doubt that it sites happen simply because there are no examples publicised.

Askthe EA

fg1406 wrote: »

How long does it normally take EA to revert once you've made a bid? We are the over-bidders in this case. We've made counter bids on the underbidder twice but have heard nothing in over a week. I don't want tobrung and sound eager to them. Is this normal? (Sorry FTB here!)

A week for no contact is poor form. Mind you, bad time of year.

fg1406

Thanks. I wasn't sure whether waiting this long was the norm or not. It's left us feeling in limbo.

eeguy

fg1406 wrote: »

How long does it normally take EA to revert once you've made a bid? We are the over-bidders in this case. We've made counter bids on the underbidder twice but have heard nothing in over a week. I don't want tobrung and sound eager to them. Is this normal? (Sorry FTB here!)

What dies revert mean?

fg1406

eeguy wrote: »

What dies revert mean?

Come back to you to let you know if your offer has been countered by another bidder/ accepted or rejected by vendor.

looksee

On a slightly different angle of ea honesty, I have been trawling daft and have discovered that with a few clear exceptions the size of the site is over stated in pretty much every case. A 'good acre' is .8 of an acre. An acre can be pretty much anything - but never over. Usually it is around .75 of an acre. The worst example was one I saw today, '2 acres' so I checked Landdirect and there it is - .6 of an acre. I phoned and asked was there any more land than was shown on Landdirect, as it was such a big difference, but no, it was a 'typo'. I have twice informed EAs about misinformation on their ads and in both cases, weeks later, the wrong size is still there.

It is kind of noticeable that the EAs who put in exact hectares (and sometimes acres as well) get it right.

mikeybrennan

mloc123 wrote: »

In reality the agent hardly cares about 1-2k difference. That is equal to about 10-30e in commission. The seller on the other hand probably cares much more about every thousand extra on sale price.

The agent may be on a higher rate of commision for the last few thousand
So it may be worth his while

BigAl81

Was in an estate agents in Galway today enquiring about a house that was "price on asking". Her answer was "what's the most you can afford"!!

Askthe EA

BigAl81 wrote: »

Was in an estate agents in Galway today enquiring about a house that was "price on asking". Her answer was "what's the most you can afford"!!

Straight and to the point. Lol. That's shocking.

Askthe EA

mikeybrennan wrote: »

The agent may be on a higher rate of commision for the last few thousand
So it may be worth his while

It isn't. They get a percentage of a percentage. Even at 2% 5,000 is only worth €100 to the office and less again to the agent.

Askthe EA

fg1406 wrote: »

Thanks. I wasn't sure whether waiting this long was the norm or not. It's left us feeling in limbo.

Call him after the weekend. Say your sick of waiting. If he thinks he might lose you it will focus him. I suspect however, your offer isn't acceptable to his client and they are hoping another person comes in.

fg1406

Askthe EA wrote: »

Call him after the weekend. Say your sick of waiting. If he thinks he might lose you it will focus him. I suspect however, your offer isn't acceptable to his client and they are hoping another person comes in.

I appreciate your advice. I did in fact call this afternoon and told them I had found another house and I needed to know where I stood (as to not sound eager) and they said they'd call me back. It's 8:30pm and I don't think I'm getting that call this weekend. There was an offer of €210 on the house and we bid €2.5k over it. They countered with another bid of €216 and we've gone to €219. We aren't in Dublin so the property market here regularly achieves 8% either side of asking and asking price is €220. But houses in this estate rarely go over €220.

If the vendor isn't willing to accept €219 we would at least like to know. As I said, we are just left in limbo.

dinneenp

Friend was viewing a house, the house next door had sold. Estate agent said it sold for €350k . my friend said "no, it sold for €360k".

Estate agent asked where did you hear that, friend "my colleague is friends with the person who bought."

Estate agent - "you can't say anything in this town." (Galway)

So either person who bought didn't want to tell people she paid €380k or Estate Agent wanted to pretend house sold for more which could lead to mf friend offering higher for house he was viewing.......