Customer service guys think their company is not subject to Irish law..

ablelocks

my coffee machine broke, so i spoke and emailed their customer service people who are based in the UK (Italian owned company, as far as I know) looking for some form of redress - even though the machine is outside the companies warranty period, it is still within the 6 year statutory period (I maintain the fault occurred because the component is not fit for purpose - the part that broke is made of plastic and should be made from metal.)

Anyway, when I spoke to him he said that UK law supersedes Irish and EU law and in his reply to my subsequent email he said, quoting his Sales Manager

I have spoken to the sales manager regarding your query and he has confirmed although you live in Ireland, the manufactures warranty is the warranty, not what certain countries laws say.

I'll probably go to the CCPC and / or the ECC but in the meantime, any suggestions as to how i respond to his email (in a good humoured way)

Sonics2k

Doesn't it depend on where you bought the product though?

Donnielighto

Sonics2k wrote: »

Doesn't it depend on where you bought the product though?

Yeah, point of sale unless it's private seller as far as I know. The manufacturer is liable but you go through the seller isn't it?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

He's right. Your contract is with the retailer and not the manufacturer.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Donnielighto wrote: »

Yeah, point of sale unless it's private seller as far as I know. The manufacturer is liable but you go through the seller isn't it?

The manufacturer is not liable outside their warranty conditions. It is 100% the responsibly of the retailer.

blackbox

As far as I know, when you purchase the item from an Irish shop (or website) you are covered by Irish consumer protection law. This basically guarantees that item is fit for purpose at time of sale and will not fail within a reasonable length of time (generally accepted to be 1 year). It is the retailer, not the manufacturer, who is responsible for this.

The manufacturer may offer an extended warranty that goes beyond this, but this is a private contract between the manufacturer and you. There will be terms and conditions, and these may well state that English Law will prevail. This is perfectly legal as long as it doesn't offer less protection than the Irish consumer protection law.

Sleeper12

Did you buy it from the UK or Ireland?
Irish law only covers goods bought in Ireland. If you order it from the UK then EU law covers you & not Irish law

ablelocks

product was purchased in Ireland....seller told me to contact manufacturer - so I'll go back to them too...

from here :

Statutory rights

Statutory rights are provided for by legislation (Irish law and EU law as transposed in Ireland). These act as a kind of “legal guarantee”, entitling consumers to seek redress where an item is faulty. Consumers may rely on their statutory rights regardless of whether an item has a warranty or not.

Under Irish law, consumers have up to six years to seek redress for faulty or defective items (both new and second-hand).

any warranty from a company is in addition to the statutory rights

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ablelocks wrote: »

product was purchased in Ireland....seller told me to contact manufacturer (and to possibly complicate it further, the company outsourced the manufacture to another multinational and are trying to pass the buck to them...) so I'll go back to them too...

from here :



any warranty from a company is in addition to the statutory rights

You are still ignoring the fact that, regardless of what the retailer told you, your recourse is via the retailer and NOT the manufacturer.

ablelocks

Teresa Nervous Inch wrote: »

You are still ignoring the fact that, regardless of what the retailer told you, your recourse is via the retailer and NOT the manufacturer.

I'm not ignoring anything - I went to them first and I just said I'd go back to them?

ablelocks

mods, feel free to move to move this thread to consumer issues...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ablelocks wrote: »

Ahm, I'm not ignoring anything - I went to them first and I just said I'd go back to them?

And the matter lies there. Repair, replace or refund depending on the age of the appliance and the cause and nature of the fault. Any discussion on rights or law is moot until the retailer responds. SCC may be your final course of action. You should get this moved to the Consumer Issues forum.

Boom_Bap

Thread moved from After Hours to Consumer Issues as per request from the OP.

Please read the local charter before posting if you are following the redirect from AH.

L1011

Sales manager is incorrect; however the company are correct in regards to their warranty - you have to go to the retailer. Small claims / ECCE against the manufacturer would not be accepted should it come to that - it has to be against the retailer.

CeilingFly

What "statutory 6 year" rule is that.?


When trying to argue with a retailer ALWAYS ensure you are correct with any legal threats.

There is no such statutory legislation in Ireland.

Irish consumer law states a product should be fit for purpose and free of manufacturing defects for a reasonable period.

And as others have stated, it is the retailer who is responsible.

You also say that the part "should have been made of metal" What is your expertise?


I'm guessing that your attitude is not particularly good on the complaint. You don't have any knowledge of consumer law. You're giving them bs statements and threats. They've told you to piss off.

And probably rightly so.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Lux23

CeilingFly wrote: »

What "statutory 6 year" rule is that.?


When trying to argue with a retailer ALWAYS ensure you are correct with any legal threats.

There is no such statutory legislation in Ireland.

Irish consumer law states a product should be fit for purpose and free of manufacturing defects for a reasonable period.

And as others have stated, it is the retailer who is responsible.

You also say that the part "should have been made of metal" What is your expertise?


I'm guessing that your attitude is not particularly good on the complaint. You don't have any knowledge of consumer law. You're giving them bs statements and threats. They've told you to piss off.

And probably rightly so.

Emm...under Irish consumer law you can return a faulty item for repair for up to six years. Maybe you need to familiarise yourself with Irish legislation before you start attacking people for their lack of knowledge.

L1011

Lux23 wrote: »

Emm...under Irish consumer law you can return a faulty item for repair for up to six years. Maybe you need to familiarise yourself with Irish legislation before you start attacking people for their lack of knowledge.

You're quite wrong here. Post above yours outlines the actual situation

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Lux23

L1011 wrote: »

You're quite wrong here. Post above yours outlines the actual situation

No, I am not. Trust me.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

L1011

Lux23 wrote: »

No, I am not. Trust me.

You are.

You have the ability to make a claim for a manufacturing fault for 6 years. This is not the same "you can return a faulty item for repair"

I have sufficient reason to be aware of the legislation here and zero reason to "trust" a poster making claims without foundation.

Lux23

L1011 wrote: »

You are.

You have the ability to make a claim for a manufacturing fault for 6 years. This is not the same "you can return a faulty item for repair"

I have sufficient reason to be aware of the legislation here and zero reason to "trust" a poster making claims without foundation.

I said the exact same thing as the poster previous to me. Everyone has the right to return a faulty item and request a repair within six years of purchasing the item. And what do you mean by making a claim without a foundation? The law says you can request a repair for up to six years and so how was I wrong? Explain it please?

Also, the manufacturing fault thing is a complete misnomer how on earth could a consumer prove that? And how could a retailer disprove that?

Lux23

Melendez wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You can insist on it all the way to the Small Claims Court. You may well lose, but you may well win too, it is all down to the Judge on the day.

L1011

Lux23 wrote: »

I said the exact same thing as the poster previous to me. Everyone has the right to return a faulty item and request a repair within six years of purchasing the item. And what do you mean by making a claim without a foundation? The law says you can request a repair for up to six years and so how was I wrong? Explain it please?

Also, the manufacturing fault thing is a complete misnomer how on earth could a consumer prove that? And how could a retailer disprove that?

You haven't got a right to expect a repair for 6 years except in cases of a manufacturing fault; and yes the consumer is expected to be able to give evidence of that. And anyway, they don't have to offer a repair to begin with - refund or replacement are entirely OK.

If all you want to do is be pedantic, don't make utterly vague posts arguing with other posters who were correct.

coylemj

Lux23 wrote: »

Everyone has the right to return a faulty item and request a repair within six years of purchasing the item.

A 'fault' could be a breakage or failure caused by abuse, domestic accident or excessive use beyond what would be considered reasonable - in this case for example if you installed a domestic coffee machine in a restaurant. None of which would give you any rights under the six year rule.

Lux23

L1011 wrote: »

You haven't got a right to expect a repair for 6 years except in cases of a manufacturing fault; and yes the consumer is expected to be able to give evidence of that. And anyway, they don't have to offer a repair to begin with - refund or replacement are entirely OK.

If all you want to do is be pedantic, don't make utterly vague posts arguing with other posters who were correct.

You see there is a basic inequity in a trader expecting a consumer to prove that a fault is a manufacturing one so I could see a Judge siding with a consumer if the trader didn't prove it themselves.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Lux23 wrote: »

You see there is a basic inequity in a trader expecting a consumer to prove that a fault is a manufacturing one so I could see a Judge siding with a consumer if the trader didn't prove it themselves.

No judge would give you a favourable ruling if you went in with "It's a 6 year old coffee maker and it broke!"

That's not how it works in practice.

johnnyskeleton

Lux23 wrote: »

I said the exact same thing as the poster previous to me. Everyone has the right to return a faulty item and request a repair within six years of purchasing the item. And what do you mean by making a claim without a foundation? The law says you can request a repair for up to six years and so how was I wrong? Explain it please?

Also, the manufacturing fault thing is a complete misnomer how on earth could a consumer prove that? And how could a retailer disprove that?

Could you cite this piece of legislation please? Do you mean you can bring it back and ask, or that youre entitled to have it repaired within 6 years?

cruizer101

OP how old is the product and how much was it?
These are quite relevant facts if it was cheap coffee maker it isn't expected to last 6 years, however if it was an expensive one it may be.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Mr. Incognito

Hello there.

I think I can clear this up.

If it's bought in Ireland your contract is with the vendor under the sales of goods act. Products must be

1. Fit for purpose
2. Of merchantable quality

If the product has a defect the sales of good act applies. If an injury is occasioned by the defect the defective products act may apply. This can affix the manufacturer with liability for the injury.

Your case is against the seller only. Some manufacturers will give a warranty in addition to these statutory rights.

What's fit for purpose depends on the product. Shoes for example wear out through ordinary wear and tear in six months to a year.

Under any contract the statute of limitations is 6 years. This bars an action after 6 years. It doesn't equate to a positive right to a refund in that time if it's worn out. That again depends on the product and the flaw.

Go to the seller.