BMW M2

Shane732

I'm close to pulling the trigger on buying a M2. I have a 430D at the moment but it doesn't give me the same excitement as my previous car did and I've had itchy feet for a good while!

My question is what is the depreciation likely to be on these? My fear is that they'll be very tough to resell like the 235/240i. They seem to be holding up reasonably ok in the UK.

Blazer

I think they should hold up well.
They're a new car, 3l litre engine so not too big to scare off buyers and every review on them rates the car extremely highly.
Are you buying new or 2nd hand? Potentially a 2nd hand one could be the better option as regards depreciation when you go to sell it out..obviously the older your M2 gets the more interested people will be in it as it would start to come into a lot of our price ranges

Shane732

Blazer wrote: »

I think they should hold up well.
They're a new car, 3l litre engine so not too big to scare off buyers and every review on them rates the car extremely highly.
Are you buying new or 2nd hand? Potentially a 2nd hand one could be the better option as regards depreciation when you go to sell it out..obviously the older your M2 gets the more interested people will be in it as it would start to come into a lot of our price ranges

No 2016 ones around unless you bring one in from the UK. No VRT calculation available for them which is a pain.

Blazer

closest would be a M235 I imagine and a 161 vrt is 12.4k..ouch.

Shane732

Blazer wrote: »

closest would be a M235 I imagine and a 161 vrt is 12.4k..ouch.

Ha, if only the VRT was €12.4k!

Blazer

Shane732 wrote: »

Ha, if only the VRT was €12.4k!

Closer to 20k i’d Say

Shane732

Any thoughts?

MarkN

Shane732 wrote: »

Any thoughts?

Last I heard, UK dealers were trying to get Irish ones to sell them to them as they couldn't keep up with demand. With that in mind, a slightly more hassle ad on Pistonheads and Autotrader UK when you've had your fun will probably guarantee a sale if you're struggling here. Go for it, what a car!!

Shane732

MarkN wrote: »

Last I heard, UK dealers were trying to get Irish ones to sell them to them as they couldn't keep up with demand. With that in mind, a slightly more hassle ad on Pistonheads and Autotrader UK when you've had your fun will probably guarantee a sale if you're struggling here. Go for it, what a car!!

Ok - sounds positive!

The car lists at €78k and there aren't that many options you can put on them. Murphy and Gunn were telling me that they've taken the margin out of the 171 one they have at €77k! Suppose they probably have when you compare it to the €83k that Colm Quinn have! Prices are just nuts.

MarkN

Shane732 wrote: »

Ok - sounds positive!

The car lists at €78k and there aren't that many options you can put on them. Murphy and Gunn were telling me that they've taken the margin out of the 171 one they have at €77k! Suppose they probably have when you compare it to the €83k that Colm Quinn have! Prices are just nuts.

If I was buying new or nearly new again it would be M&G getting my money. Have used them for servicing for a good few years now.

blingrhino

what about a 161 M3/M4 instead ?

importing it will be probably cheaper than a newish M2 and just looks that bit better.

I do sympatise ,i considered one myself !

Shane732

blingrhino wrote: »

what about a 161 M3/M4 instead ?

importing it will be probably cheaper than a newish M2 and just looks that bit better.

I do sympatise ,i considered one myself !

I've a 430D to offload so buying in Ireland is just much handier, albeit likely more expensive. I could import a 161 M4 for €75k - Conlon's had a lovely dark blue for sale about a month ago buy they were looking for €89k for it and that's after I fought they down from €94k. Price difference on M4s coming in from the UK is insane.

The M2s in the UK seem to be holding there value a bit better. You don't seem to be able to pick one up in the UK for under £40k.

carsfan2

I presume you have seen Joe Achilles on you tube with his M2 and m135i?
Good comparisons between the M2 and m240i.

While the M2 is sought after in the U.K., I would be a lot less confident of it residually here although you might be able to export it if required and get vrt refund. They are such a niche car and expensive too that very limited market.
My experience of BMW dealers is that when you are trading in you get bottom value but when you buy the opposite is the case. I could easily see a scenario where when you buy they tell you they are greatly sought after etc and when you sell they are very specialised and hard to sell on.
I recently traded a Bmw and the dealer had a new M2 in stock for 6 months before he sold it he told me.

Shane732

carsfan2 wrote: »

I presume you have seen Joe Achilles on you tube with his M2 and m135i?
Good comparisons between the M2 and m240i.

While the M2 is sought after in the U.K., I would be a lot less confident of it residually here although you might be able to export it if required and get vrt refund. They are such a niche car and expensive too that very limited market.
My experience of BMW dealers is that when you are trading in you get bottom value but when you buy the opposite is the case. I could easily see a scenario where when you buy they tell you they are greatly sought after etc and when you sell they are very specialised and hard to sell on.
I recently traded a Bmw and the dealer had a new M2 in stock for 6 months before he sold it he told me.

This it here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5lBDa0_41Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cphuMPNcdTY

carsfan2

Yes that's him alright.
Has a 135i and M2.

I think in Ireland any 80k sports car is going to depreciate heavily but if you fancy it why not? It probably won't lose value as much as a mainstream BMW of that price but it will lose a lot in the first 2/3 years.
You only live once and it does get great reviews.

Marcusm

Shane732 wrote: »

Ha, if only the VRT was €12.4k!

VRT band is E therefore 30% of Irish OMSP so, on your numbers of available new cars, more like 24k.

username?!

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/bmw/m3/used-2015-151-bmw-m3-f80-19k-miles-kildare-fpa-2412627839100476793

I would personally be all over this.

Theboinkmaster

username?! wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/bmw/m3/used-2015-151-bmw-m3-f80-19k-miles-kildare-fpa-2412627839100476793

I would personally be all over this.

wouldn't be a fan of that colour at all.

username?!

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

wouldn't be a fan of that colour at all.

It's a colour you need to see in person I think. But yes, it's not for everyone.

Shane732

username?! wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/bmw/m3/used-2015-151-bmw-m3-f80-19k-miles-kildare-fpa-2412627839100476793

I would personally be all over this.

€6k more than a M4

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/bmw/m4/used-2015-151-bmw-m4-m4-coupe-cork-fpa-3832977471581254605

tvr

In my opinion they are a dead duck in the Irish market. Have been tracking them for quite a while but was put off as I think depreciation would be absolutely horrendous and off the scale.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think the blue one in Keane's has been there for coming up for a year now unsold. Must drop in and see when the build date was on it.

The M&G black used one is at least 10 months + unsold as well. I think registered in 2017 but was defo in before because I remember them quoting 80k+ plus on it back last year.

The ones in Ireland also don't have the latest upgrades virtual cockpit, LED lights etc as far as I know as well. The interior in my opinion is also a let down. Despite it looking the same as M3 feels noticeable cheaper. I think BMW Ireland will need to reevaluate pricing on it. Probably need to do what VW did on the Golf R and bring down the price.

Shane732

tvr wrote: »

In my opinion they are a dead duck in the Irish market. Have been tracking them for quite a while but was put off as I think depreciation would be absolutely horrendous and off the scale.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think the blue one in Keane's has been there for coming up for a year now unsold. Must drop in and see when the build date was on it.

The M&G black used one is at least 10 months + unsold as well. I think registered in 2017 but was defo in before because I remember them quoting 80k+ plus on it back last year.

The ones in Ireland also don't have the latest upgrades virtual cockpit, LED lights etc as far as I know as well. The interior in my opinion is also a let down. Despite it looking the same as M3 feels noticeable cheaper. I think BMW Ireland will need to reevaluate pricing on it. Probably need to do what VW did on the Golf R and bring down the price.

The interior is the same as every BMW - I don't think there is an interior in the entire BMW line up that blows you away, excluding the i8!

The only BMWs with fully digital displays are the i3 and i8.

Does the M2 LCI have a full digital display?

digiman

Shane732 wrote: »

The interior is the same as every BMW - I don't think there is an interior in the entire BMW line up that blows you away, excluding the i8!

The only BMWs with fully digital displays are the i3 and i8.

Does the M2 LCI have a full digital display?

I think the interior in the new 5 series is stunning to be honest. The interior from the 1 to the 4 series is basically the same in them all which is really annoying I think.

tvr

Shane732 wrote: »

The interior is the same as every BMW - I don't think there is an interior in the entire BMW line up that blows you away, excluding the i8!

The only BMWs with fully digital displays are the i3 and i8.

Does the M2 LCI have a full digital display?

I know it looks the exact same, I am not arguing with that. However if you go for a test drive you can feel the overall car being more noticeably "tinny". Its fine for a $55,000 dollar car in the US but its closer to $100,000 in Ireland etc now. The M3 and F30 3 series are general really bad in terms of road noise, the M2 is far worse in my opinion.

All new M2 builds for 2017 get full LED headlights, the touchscreen navigation and digital dial cluster from the new 5 series etc.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/05/11/bmw-unveils-facelifted-m2-coupe/

Again its another reason for me why I won't touch the current stock in Ireland.

Shane732

digiman wrote: »

I think the interior in the new 5 series is stunning to be honest. The interior from the 1 to the 4 series is basically the same in them all which is really annoying I think.

I do agree that the interior is improving in the BMWs.

Shane732

tvr wrote: »

I know it looks the exact same, I am not arguing with that. However if you go for a test drive you can feel the overall car being more noticeably "tinny". Its fine for a $55,000 dollar car in the US but its closer to $100,000 in Ireland etc now. The M3 and F30 3 series are general really bad in terms of road noise, the M2 is far worse in my opinion.

All new M2 builds for 2017 get full LED headlights, the touchscreen navigation and digital dial cluster from the new 5 series etc.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/05/11/bmw-unveils-facelifted-m2-coupe/

Again its another reason for me why I won't touch the current stock in Ireland.

I'm coming from a 4 series and must say I didn't notice much of difference between the M2 and the 4 series.

carsfan2

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm coming from a 4 series and must say I didn't notice much of difference between the M2 and the 4 series.

I don't think the new dash on the M2 is all digital like 5 series more a better black panel display.
Think if there was substantial savings on a stock car then ordering the lci might be a waste.

Would you consider a used merc c63?
Probably though you will get better trade in on your 4 series. Would M2 be your daily car?

Shane732

carsfan2 wrote: »

I don't think the new dash on the M2 is all digital like 5 series more a better black panel display.
Think if there was substantial savings on a stock car then ordering the lci might be a waste.

Would you consider a used merc c63?
Probably though you will get better trade in on your 4 series. Would M2 be your daily car?

Yes it's a daily drive for me.

Merc is €30k more expensive new.

blingrhino

RS3 sportback ?

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm close to pulling the trigger on buying a M2. I have a 430D at the moment but it doesn't give me the same excitement as my previous car did and I've had itchy feet for a good while!

My question is what is the depreciation likely to be on these? My fear is that they'll be very tough to resell like the 235/240i. They seem to be holding up reasonably ok in the UK.

Shane732 wrote: »

.........

The car lists at €78k ..............

After 3 years I doubt a private sale would be an option but if it was you'd surely struggle to get €40k for it. Trade in wise ......... who knows.

RedorDead

blingrhino wrote: »

RS3 sportback ?

Also now available in saloon. sportback is from €67,700 and saloon is from €68,700

carsfan2

Have you test driven the M2 already?
If so what have the sales people said re depreciation worries?

I have read on some of the UK forums of guys buying M3/M4 and trading out of them within the year.reason usually being that as a daily they are too wearing,noisy and the huge power is only accessible when you really are revving it out and then you're at highly illegal speeds. Some guys seem to miss the comfort of a more mainstream daily driver. I think the M2 might be similar.
would agree with previous poster that you would be lucky to get 40k for one here after 2/3 years and a lot of dealers would probably not take one for stock but would sell it on in the trade.

Shane732

I may have found the answer.....

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/how-this-jag-ftype-just-knocked-30k-off-its-price-35990279.html

:D

frozenfrozen

what is an audi cc?

Shane732

frozenfrozen wrote: »

what is an audi cc?

Who cares!

Is the €65k entry point right? £49k in the UK seems unbelievably cheap in Ireland. They didn't have a price point when I enquired about it.

JoeA3

carsfan2 wrote: »

Have you test driven the M2 already?
If so what have the sales people said re depreciation worries?

I have read on some of the UK forums of guys buying M3/M4 and trading out of them within the year.reason usually being that as a daily they are too wearing,noisy and the huge power is only accessible when you really are revving it out and then you're at highly illegal speeds. Some guys seem to miss the comfort of a more mainstream daily driver. I think the M2 might be similar.
would agree with previous poster that you would be lucky to get 40k for one here after 2/3 years and a lot of dealers would probably not take one for stock but would sell it on in the trade.

I think the M2 is a much better "daily" than the M3, and certainly a hell of a lot better than the previous gen M3's. It's a pretty civilised car if you want it to be. Very comfortable interior, quite refined imo.

I say this, because I was up close and personal with an M2 recently and I was very impressed with it. The guy who owns it reckoned it wasn't bad on juice either - comparable to a Golf R (28-30mpg) we'll say. And the road tax is a palatable €750. So I'm the longer term when the car is older it doesn't become a hard sell for those usual running costs reasons like the older M cars.

That said, he was struggling to keep on my tail (Golf R) on a cross country jaunt

carsfan2

frozenfrozen wrote: »

what is an audi cc?

A misprint of TT?

carsfan2

Autocar review here.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type/first-drives/jaguar-f-type-20-litre-2017-review

2 litre engine not as sexy as the 3 litre in the M2 is only drawback I can see.

Shane732

carsfan2 wrote: »

Autocar review here.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type/first-drives/jaguar-f-type-20-litre-2017-review

2 litre engine not as sexy as the 3 litre in the M2 is only drawback I can see.

I drove a 3.0l version for 3 days and loved it. The F-Type is the car I've wanted for year but I just couldn't stretch to the price of the 3.0 version and the stupid VRT cost on importing one put me off importing.

The 2.0l is perfect for want I'm looking for really and the car is sex on wheels. Ok it's not going to set any land speed records but 300bhp is plenty for every day driving.

carsfan2

I have a feeling that the jag would be a better bet residually than the M2 as would have a much wider appeal.
as an aside, what is missing from the 430d?
A 430d gc would be on my shortlist as my next car.

Shane732

carsfan2 wrote: »

I have a feeling that the jag would be a better bet residually than the M2 as would have a much wider appeal.
as an aside, what is missing from the 430d?
A 430d gc would be on my shortlist as my next car.

I'm driving a 430d coupe at the moment. It's my first diesel - fine car to drive but I just wasn't as in love with it as the 335i I had previously.

Marcusm

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm driving a 430d coupe at the moment. It's my first diesel - fine car to drive but I just wasn't as in love with it as the 335i I had previously.

I have a friend with an F-Type as a daily driver and she loves it; prior car was a 335i. This car has been crying out for a turbo 2.0 as opposed to supercharged 3.0 to move it into a volume segment. I suspect it will result in a significant drop in value for 2nd hand F-Types for a short while. The value proposition in Ireland is compelling and it's certainly a class or two higher than an M2.

PrettyBoy

Marcusm wrote: »

The value proposition in Ireland is compelling and it's certainly a class or two higher than an M2.

I really don't think a poor mans* 2.0 F-Type is a class above the M2.



*relatively speaking

Marcusm

PrettyBoy wrote: »

I really don't think a poor mans* 2.0 F-Type is a class above the M2.

*relatively speaking

Perhaps I should have said that the F-Type is a class (at least) above a 2 series Beemer. From what Shane says, the interior of the M2 is little differentiated from other Beemers. I can fully agree that a 3 litre straight 6 BMW is likely to be more performance oriented but as a daily driver, I suspect, within Dublin, I think the F-Type is probably a class above (at least) from an experiential perspective.

RedorDead

frozenfrozen wrote: »

what is an audi cc?

I assume you mean what is the RS3 cc? Its 2495 cc - 2.5TFSI 5 pot putting out 400bhp with quattro and s-tronic. 0-100 in 4.1

frozenfrozen

RedorDead wrote: »

I assume you mean what is the RS3 cc? Its 2495 cc - 2.5TFSI 5 pot putting out 400bhp with quattro and s-tronic. 0-100 in 4.1

possibly , in that article they said

And all of a sudden, this stunning-looking and dream-to-drive motor is a big, big rival to the Porsche Boxsters of this world (and maybe even heavily specced Audi CCs).

so either it's a misprint of TT like someone else said or else an Rs3 cc which I have never heard of before!

rabbitinlights

Have you taken one for a drive? - They are incredible looking in the metal, but the ride is meant to be VERY harsh.

There are 100+ for sale on Autotrader.co.uk - that would make me a little nervous for values?

tvr

I would also be skeptical they can do it for 65k in Ireland. If they can, then it would be the one to go to in terms of residuals and for a daily driver over a M2. The big problem is we just don't have the amount of track days that the UK have so you are not going to get the benefit of the M2.

Re RS3, coming from the guy that installs my trackers, he reckons the RS3 has the highest percentage chance of getting stolen of any car on sale. They are stolen to order for get away cars in the UK like confetti etc That would be my big fear on them over here.

username?!

tvr wrote: »

In my opinion they are a dead duck in the Irish market. Have been tracking them for quite a while but was put off as I think depreciation would be absolutely horrendous and off the scale.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think the blue one in Keane's has been there for coming up for a year now unsold. Must drop in and see when the build date was on it.

The M&G black used one is at least 10 months + unsold as well. I think registered in 2017 but was defo in before because I remember them quoting 80k+ plus on it back last year.

The ones in Ireland also don't have the latest upgrades virtual cockpit, LED lights etc as far as I know as well. The interior in my opinion is also a let down. Despite it looking the same as M3 feels noticeable cheaper. I think BMW Ireland will need to reevaluate pricing on it. Probably need to do what VW did on the Golf R and bring down the price.

Correct on how long they have been in the dealers for. I reckon you could get a good discount on one of these from a dealer or the blue private sale one.

You are a hard buyer to find, they should be jumping on you to take one tbh.

This is more in terms of the M4's for sale but I reckon the same applies to the M2.

tvr

username?! wrote: »

Correct on how long they have been in the dealers for. I reckon you could get a good discount on one of these from a dealer or the blue private sale one.

You are a hard buyer to find, they should be jumping on you to take one tbh.

This is more in terms of the M4's for sale but I reckon the same applies to the M2.

To be honest, I think there is a degree of greed going on in BMW Ireland etc to be honest on the M2 or the dealers are not being clear on margin or BMW Ireland bonus for selling etc.

I have no proof as I never did a screenshot but I remember when the M2 first went up on the BMW Ireland configurator it was 69k. I remember it as it was directly comparable with the Audi RS3 at 69k.

About a week later the dealer and config pricing was updated to 79k. It was like they saw the waiting lists in the UK and said right we have an opportunity here to charge a premium on this. In my opinion they total misread the pricing in Ireland.

The other variable to the unsold stock, are the M2 Mondello cars being used for the BMW Driving experience. If they hit the market in 2 to 3 years with high mileage they will tank the resell figures even further.

Shpudnik

tvr wrote: »

The other variable to the unsold stock, are the M2 Mondello cars being used for the BMW Driving experience. If they hit the market in 2 to 3 years with high mileage they will tank the resell figures even further.

I highly doubt it but would they destroy them like they do to the cars at the Nurburgring? Like I know they are very different situations but maybe they would do that to avoid trying to flog them on the used market.