UK to ban sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2040

Beta Ray Bill

Heard this on the Radio this morning:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0726/893002-uk_petrol_diesel_ban/

Diesel Cars I can understand but petrol?

Times are changing.

The UK government is set to announce a complete ban on the sale of all petrol and diesel fuelled cars from 2040, when all vehicles must be fully electric.

It is part of a plan to clean-up air quality amid fears that rising levels of pollutants pose a major risk to public health.

The move follows a similar announcement earlier this month by the French government to take polluting vehicles off the road.

The UK government has been under pressure to take measures to reduce air pollution after losing legal cases brought by campaign groups.

The Daily Mail newspaper is reporting that under the proposals to be announced today, local authorities would be able to charge levies on the drivers of diesel vehicles on the most polluted roads from 2020, if air quality does not improve.

The London Times newspaper says the sale of new hybrid vehicles that have an electric motor combined with a petrol or diesel engine would also end under the plan.

Earlier this month, Volvo became the first major traditional automaker to set a date for phasing out vehicles powered solely by the internal combustion engine by saying all its car models launched after 2019 will be electric or hybrids.

Air pollution is linked to around 40,000 premature deaths a year in the UK, and transport also makes up a significant share of greenhouse gas emissions.

cml387

Hybrids are included, (it says so in the quote.

A bit of a game changer. 2040 is not that far away (probably won't affect me much .

Beta Ray Bill

cml387 wrote: »

Hybrids are included, (it says so in the quote.

A bit of a game changer. 2040 is not that far away (probably won't affect me much .

Thought I fixed before anyone read it.....

It's going to a huge game changer, Price of Oil could fall rapidly once the wheels get turning on this in the next few years.

ION08

RTE on the ball with their reporting :rolleyes:

Nearly all other websites are reporting:

"New diesel and petrol vehicles to be banned from 2040 in UK"

Keyword being "New"

Also, its in more than 20 years time.. Most manufacturers probably wont even be producing any petrol/diesel engines anymore by then

cml387

Will people have as much fun comparing the size of their electric motors?

Will there be earnest discussion of back emf and magnetic flux?

Arguments over fast charging and battery capacity? (already there).

Beta Ray Bill

ION08 wrote: »

RTE on the ball with their reporting :rolleyes:

Nearly all other websites are reporting:

"New diesel and petrol vehicles to be banned from 2040 in UK"

Keyword being "New"

Also, its in more than 20 years time.. Most manufacturers probably wont even be producing any petrol/diesel engines anymore by then

OSI wrote: »

Ah it's not just RTE to be fair, the amount of people I've seen commenting this morning on various articles about it being a disgrace the government are taking their cars and how are they supposed to get around when there's no buses or trains :rolleyes:

That's how I read it.

It a change that wont effect anyone for at least 10 to 15 years. (I'll be approaching 50 by then!)

It's not big deal like, I think it's the right way to do it (very gradual) and a step in the right direction.

Micky 32

grahambo wrote: »

Thought I fixed before anyone read it.....

It's going to a huge game changer, Price of Oil could fall rapidly once the wheels get turning on this in the next few years.

Yep but huge taxes put on the fuel :mad:

Mooooo

If done here with the amount of tax and excise we pay I'd say electricity will get very dear or something else to plug the hole in revenue

colm_mcm

Mooooo wrote: »

If done here with the amount of tax and excise we pay I'd say electricity will get very dear or something else to plug the hole in revenue

Chalk it down

Special Circumstances

grahambo wrote: »

Heard this on the Radio this morning:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0726/893002-uk_petrol_diesel_ban/

Diesel Cars I can understand but petrol?

Times are changing.

Do you have a link to demonstrate these cities with "severe air quality problems"?

Not the indo/rte/irishtimes/guardian/bbc, something accurate...

None of this fake news anti diesel lame campaign

Special Circumstances

rte wrote:

Air pollution is linked to around 40,000 premature deaths a year in the UK, and transport also makes up a significant share of greenhouse gas emissions.

What they don't get is cars are cleaner now than they ever have been! Period.

Cows cause more NOX and PM pollution than cars. Go start a campaign about that.

3rdDegree

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Do you have a link to demonstrate these cities with "severe air quality problems"?

Not the indo/rte/irishtimes/guardian/bbc, something accurate...

None of this fake news anti diesel lame campaign

Donald?

I think it's obvious that cars with ICE's pollute. Hardly "fake news"!

Atlantic Dawn

I'd love a figure on how many charging points would be needed.

mickdw

At the current rate of advance of electric and hybrid tech, nobody will want a petrol or diesel car in 2040. Even right now, hybrid seems to be a more sensible option than a straight petrol for people who would be traditional petrol buyers.
I guess the big question is when the tax on electricity will kick in. Not long after all grants and rebates disappear im sure.

Sam Kade

Special Circumstances wrote: »

What they don't get is cars are cleaner now than they ever have been! Period.

Cows cause more NOX and PM pollution than cars. Go start a campaign about that.

Cows don't clog up city streets constantly belching as they go.

Special Circumstances

3rdDegree wrote: »

Donald?

I think it's obvious that cars with ICE's pollute. Hardly "fake news"!

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/k...ons-standards/

Cars have never been cleaner. You can end your lame campaign...

Special Circumstances

One effect of this moves that probably hasn't occurred to people - it's highly unlikely that an industry standard for verifying the existence, functionality and effectiveness of diesel emissions controls at NCT/MOT/whatever time could be agreed and rolled out long enough before the deadline to be worth the effort.

Good news diesel fans, an oul eyeballing of the DPF/CAT and a nominal shmoke test will continue to be the state of the art of diesel emissions testing! Vote diesel, vote GREEN!

Ubbquittious

LPG, Hydrogen combustion & CNG still ok?

minikin

Special Circumstances wrote: »

What they don't get is cars are cleaner now than they ever have been! Period.

Cows cause more NOX and PM pollution than cars. Go start a campaign about that.

I'm all for electric cows!

Nissan have been working on Chademoo chargers for a while now:

3rdDegree

Special Circumstances wrote: »

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/k...ons-standards/

Cars have never been cleaner. You can end your lame campaign...

Cleaner doesn't mean clean!

My campaign? I love my diesel car!

goz83

A bit too far away imo, but a good step.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I'd love a figure on how many charging points would be needed.

With not a lot of forward thinking, we won't need many, particularly as battery capacities and range improves. The vast majority of charging will be done over night where people live. Apartment owners will need their charge points in the carpark, ideally linked to their own supply. On street chargers and multi charger sites (old petrol/diesel stations) will be common place with fast 4/10 min charging at a premium rate. Every supermarket and cinema in the interim will have slow chargers installed, as customers stop off for a couple of hours at a time.

3rdDegree wrote: »

Cleaner doesn't mean clean!

My campaign? I love my diesel car!

Plus, we have a few more cars on our roads these days.

Cee-Jay-Cee

So the UK have mooted 2040 as the date for the ban which means were safe enough here in little ol' Oirland until well after 2060 at least and even then they will most likely make a load of provisions and exclusion clauses for the poor and those on social welfare who cant afford a new car so in reality it'll never happen here.

Atlantic Dawn

Bad news for the banks who financed PCP's here and the UK, this will drop the price and demand of used diesel cars in the UK and the knock on values with imports of these cars here.

cml387

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

So the UK have mooted 2040 as the date for the ban which means were safe enough here in little ol' Oirland until well after 2060 at least and even then they will most likely make a load of provisions and exclusion clauses for the poor and those on social welfare who cant afford a new car so in reality it'll never happen here.

Well unless we start manufacturing our own cars, it applies to us too.

Special Circumstances

cml387 wrote: »

Well unless we start manufacturing our own cars, it applies to us too.

No manufacturers are abandoning diesel. Check again clever clogs!

BillyBobBS

Good news. The planet must be saved.

Beta Ray Bill

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Bad news for the banks who financed PCP's here and the UK, this will drop the price and demand of used diesel cars in the UK and the knock on values with imports of these cars here.

I don't think so

The average life of a car is about around 8 years or 150,000 miles, well-built vehicles can go 15 years and 300,000 miles

So even new cars sold this morning wont be affected as they'll most likely be scrap by 2040.


In relation to Diesels, they are very polluting
My Dads house backs on to a main road, prior to 2008 his white house was fairly white. Post 2008 it's grey, despite having been painted twice.

It's grey because of the Soot emitted from Diesel Cars, They are low CO2 but high everything else. DPF's help, but a hell of a lot of people have removed their DPF as the problematic as hell!

Special Circumstances

grahambo wrote: »

I don't think so

The average life of a car is about around 8 years or 150,000 miles, well-built vehicles can go 15 years and 300,000 miles

So even new cars sold this morning wont be affected as they'll most likely be scrap by 2040.


In relation to Diesels, they are very polluting
My Dads house backs on to a main road, prior to 2008 his white house was fairly white. Post 2008 it's grey, despite having been painted twice.

It's grey because of the Soot emitted from Diesel Cars, They are low CO2 but high everything else. DPF's help, but a hell of a lot of people have removed their DPF as the problematic as hell!

Nein. There is zero chance that diesels that passed euro5 and euro6 are not clean in the real world.

Anyone who is afraid of diesels being banned here due to this kinda fake news should vote Green!

Mickeroo

Will likely be a non issue by the time 2040 comes around anyway.

marathonic

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Bad news for the banks who financed PCP's here and the UK, this will drop the price and demand of used diesel cars in the UK and the knock on values with imports of these cars here.

The news won't really impact current PCP's given that any car coming off the production line today will likely be scrapped before the ban comes in.

According to the 2017 Automotive Sustainability Report in the UK, rhe average age of a car at scrappage in 2015 reached 13.9 years. If that continues, by 2040, we'll be scrapping vehicles built around 2026. 

According to Volvo, every Volvo car launched from 2019 will have an electric motor. I suspect the other manufacturers won't be far behind. I suspect that there'll be very little options on the diesel/petrol market by 2026.

marathonic

<<duplicate>>

Ubbquittious

Tis depressing to think every Ariel Atom and Caterham built then will be pure electric. Surely they'll have an exception for the low volume guys

Beta Ray Bill

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nein. There is zero chance that diesels that passed euro5 and euro6 are not clean in the real world.

Anyone who is afraid of diesels being banned here due to this kinda fake news should vote Green!

I agree with you that newer Diesels would be less polluting as they have bigger CATs and DPFs.

DPF's are a nuisance though.
Unless you're putting the miles in you're going to run into problems.

I think Diesel will have it's applications Trucks, Jeeps, Trains etc (anything that needs a big engine).
But if you're a person just driving around town it'll be cheaper to own an electric car or if you're a person that commutes long distance it'll be cheaper to own a petrol hybrid, or possible a Hydrogen Fuel cell car (If they ever reach mass production).

Special Circumstances

marathonic wrote: »

According to Volvo, every Volvo car launched from 2019 will have an electric motor. I suspect the other manufacturers won't be far behind. I suspect that there'll be very little options on the diesel/petrol market by 2026.

More fake news! Volvo are not abandoning diesel. Check again.

Markcheese

Special Circumstances wrote:

Cows cause more NOX and PM pollution than cars. Go start a campaign about that.

AH but when were the cows tested?
Were they in specially temperature controlled labs, had they been specially prepped for the test..
. . I mean you can't just stick the testing equipment up any old cows "exhaust pipe" out in a field.. We're not American Testing VW s you know.. 😀 😀 😀
.

Special Circumstances

Markcheese wrote: »

AH but when were the cows tested?
Were they in specially temperature controlled labs, had they been specially prepped for the test..
. . I mean you can't just stick the testing equipment up any old cows "exhaust pipe" out in a field.. We're not American Testing VW s you know.. &#55357;&#56832; &#55357;&#56832; &#55357;&#56832;
.

#passingtests #diesel

Markcheese

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote:

So the UK have mooted 2040 as the date for the ban which means were safe enough here in little ol' Oirland until well after 2060 at least and even then they will most likely make a load of provisions and exclusion clauses for the poor and those on social welfare who cant afford a new car so in reality it'll never happen here.

Will it matter when they ban the sale of new petrol and diesels if you can't buy them anyway?
. . A lot of manufacturers have said they're not developing new euro 7 diesel engines, and if they don't make them, you can't buy them...

Special Circumstances

Markcheese wrote: »

Will it matter when they ban the sale of new petrol and diesels if you can't buy them anyway?
. . A lot of manufacturers have said they're not developing new euro 7 diesel engines, and if they don't make them, you can't buy them...

Fake news. Manufacturers said they couldn't meet euro6 and look, loads of euro 6 engines. Very few of which are certified in the US admittedly, but look - they pass the euro tests which are completely beyond reproach.

Diesels are clean. Get over it lads.

Alanstrainor

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Tis depressing to think every Ariel Atom and Caterham built then will be pure electric. Surely they'll have an exception for the low volume guys

An all electric Caterham roadster would be absolutely insane. Can you image the acceleration in it?

I'm a big petrol head, and wont be going fully electric for a long while. But electric does have huge perks!

CeilingFly

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Bad news for the banks who financed PCP's here and the UK, this will drop the price and demand of used diesel cars in the UK and the knock on values with imports of these cars here.

considering the pace at which electric cars are developing, a diesel/petrol car will probably be a rarity long before the ban comes into place.

I drive a lot and plan to get another 2-3 years out of current car and I fully expect that there will be an electric alternative for me to choose from at that stage which will give me a range of 500km+

aliveandkicking

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nein. There is zero chance that diesels that passed euro5 and euro6 are not clean in the real world.

Anyone who is afraid of diesels being banned here due to this kinda fake news should vote Green!

If you believe that why don't you attach a hose to your diesel car exhaust pipe and pipe it into your living room for a few hours with the engine idling and windows shut. Come back and tell us how you get on then I might believe you when you say diesel exhaust fumes are clean, euro 5/6 or not.

Special Circumstances

Alanstrainor wrote: »

An all electric Caterham roadster would be absolutely insane. Can you image the acceleration in it?

I'm a big petrol head, and wont be going fully electric for a long while. But electric does have huge perks!

Add in some special fx like the the VWs use for the 3.0 bi-turbo D (but better)

Atlantic Dawn

grahambo wrote: »

I don't think so

The average life of a car is about around 8 years or 150,000 miles, well-built vehicles can go 15 years and 300,000 miles

So even new cars sold this morning wont be affected as they'll most likely be scrap by 2040.


In relation to Diesels, they are very polluting
My Dads house backs on to a main road, prior to 2008 his white house was fairly white. Post 2008 it's grey, despite having been painted twice.

It's grey because of the Soot emitted from Diesel Cars, They are low CO2 but high everything else. DPF's help, but a hell of a lot of people have removed their DPF as the problematic as hell!

I didn't mean as far away as 2040, I meant current PCP's going back in the next couple of years, if taxation is going to be increased in 2020 your buyer of the ex PCP's in the coming 3 years is going to be more looking for certainty with regard to running costs and would likely go for a petrol, hybrid or at a push electric so less demand for the used diesel car for sale and so a price drop. They may have trouble finding non diesels in the model they want in Ireland

Beta Ray Bill

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I didn't mean as far away as 2040, I meant current PCP's going back in the next couple of years, if taxation is going to be increased in 2020 your buyer of the ex PCP's in the coming 3 years is going to be more looking for certainty with regard to running costs and would likely go for a petrol, hybrid or at a push electric so less demand for the used diesel car for sale and so a price drop.

You're probably correct

I have my own "opinions" on PCP that I wont go into here.
Suffice to say, I'm looking forward to buying a very cheap 3 or 4 year old car in 2 years time....

Special Circumstances

aliveandkicking wrote: »

If you believe that why don't you attach a hose to your diesel car exhaust pipe and pipe it into your living room for a few hours with the engine idling and windows shut. Come back and tell us how you get on then I might believe you when you say diesel exhaust fumes are clean, euro 5/6 or not.

Modern diesels are whisper quiet, silky smooth and cleaner than an operating theatres air supply. FACT. Anyone who disagrees with this is just plain deplorable.

LariToper

I can't wait until 2060 to see classics from the 2030s being trailered around by electric land cruisers with a drum of petrol strapped on board. I wonder when we'll see the end of widespread availability of petrol, when you'll have to go to a specialist to buy in bulk.

Ubbquittious

LariToper wrote: »

I can't wait until 2060 to see classics from the 2030s being trailered around by electric land cruisers with a drum of petrol strapped on board. I wonder when we'll see the end of widespread availability of petrol, when you'll have to go to a specialist to buy in bulk.

No need. Just teleport them to their desired location

Micky 32

grahambo wrote: »

In relation to Diesels, they are very polluting
My Dads house backs on to a main road, prior to 2008 his white house was fairly white. Post 2008 it's grey, despite having been painted twice.

It's grey because of the Soot emitted from Diesel Cars, They are low CO2 but high everything else. DPF's help, but a hell of a lot of people have removed their DPF as the problematic as hell!

I trust and presume that this statement is due to the results of the analysis you got done in a lab to confirm that the grey is diesel fumes? :rolleyes:. I had a 2.0 T petrol car and the soot in the exhaust tail pipes were as black as any diesel car exhaust pipe i looked at. Further more stick your finger in a recent diesel car exhaust with a dpf. The exhaust will be spotless and totally clean with not a hint of soot. A petrol exhaust will be dirtier..

The irish goverment plan is to have new cars and vans with 0 emissions by 2030. Looks like they are aiming 10 years before UK!

Special Circumstances

Micky 32 wrote: »

Further more stick your finger in a recent diesel car exhaust with a dpf. The exhaust will be spotless and totally clean with not a hint of soot. !

You said it man!

mikeecho

Mooooo wrote: »

If done here with the amount of tax and excise we pay I'd say electricity will get very dear or something else to plug the hole in revenue

Motor tax, either a flat rate, or by weight, or both

Special Circumstances

Spotless