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Heavyweight Boxing

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  • I'd like to see someone (probably AJ) win all the heavyweight titles to be undisputed champion.

    And to do it by knocking everyone out in spectacular fashion.

    I've been firmly aboard the Joshua hype train for a long while now simply because it's precisely what's best for the sports future.

    Heavy weight boxing needs the cliché "baddest man on the planet" type fighters to be at the top to capture the general public's attention, always has.

    The giant jabbers just don't have the same mystique about them...




  • And to do it by knocking everyone out in spectacular fashion.

    I've been firmly aboard the Joshua hype train for a long while now simply because it's precisely what's best for the sports future.

    Heavy weight boxing needs the cliché "baddest man on the planet" type fighters to be at the top to capture the general public's attention, always has.

    The giant jabbers just don't have the same mystique about them...

    Spot on...

    The casual fans crave the destructive side.




  • walshb wrote: »
    Spot on...

    The casual fans crave the destructive side.

    Ya thats the long and the short of it. I've been guilty myself of getting sucked into it on numerous occasions. Criticising early stoppages by refs etc.

    Its easy forget boxers or any athlete for that matter, are just normal men and women at the back of it all.




  • squinn2912 wrote: »
    I agree mainly, excellent comment.

    I can't have AJ but he is the top man. He'd ko wilder who will continue to duck him for at least another year. That said AJ certainly isn't underrated. Beating a 40 year old Wlad who let him off the hook doesn't make him a great but he was very impressive. Wlad owned the division for a decade but since Lennox retired it hasn't been great.
    Agree about Fury. Peak he beats them all but he's lost the plot. It's a shame.
    What do you make of Millar and Dubois?


    Sorry but how exactly is wilder ducking the home wrecker? He has been calling for unification bout for almost a year now




  • Anyone backing AJ with any confidence to KO Wilder would be foolish.

    Few things: Aj is quite hittable at any stage in a match

    AJs chin for me is now not something I'd have real confidence in.

    Wilder is a very heavy puncher.

    Wilder is big enough and fast enough and aggressive enough to land on AJ, and possibly early.

    Yes, AJ could get to Wilder first. I get that, but it still doesn't get away from AJ possibly getting whacked out of it.

    It really may be a case of who lands the heavy bomb(s) first, and anyone being confident that it's AJ could be tripped up. I'd say the smart money is on the faster starter, anD the more aggressive type attacker....that is Wilder.

    And I know I have said it many times, but both knock Fury the fook out, unless he has now got a very good chin.


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  • walshb wrote: »
    Anyone backing AJ with any confidence to KO Wilder would be foolish.

    Few things: Aj is quite hittable at any stage in a match

    AJs chin for me is now not something I'd have real confidence in.

    Wilder is a very heavy puncher.

    Wilder is big enough and fast enough and aggressive enough to land on AJ, and possibly early.

    Yes, AJ could get to Wilder first. I get that, but it still doesn't get away from AJ possibly getting whacked out of it.

    It really may be a case of who lands the heavy bomb(s) first, and anyone being confident that it's AJ could be tripped up. I'd say the smart money is on the faster starter, anD the more aggressive type attacker....that is Wilder.

    And I know I have said it many times, but both knock Fury the fook out, unless he has now got a very good chin.


    Im confident we will see AJ Wilder next year




  • Firstly I don't buy into the ducking thing at all. Both men and their management aren't stupid, the AJ wilder fight will happen when it's going to make the most money. Another good ko win for both men maybe even 2 and there will be maximum interest in a potential fight.

    @walshb in relation to people sleeping on wilder that's true however all of the points you made could be applied more so in favour of AJ imo.

    Wilder is very hittable

    Wilders chin is something I'd have no confidence in. (Eric Molina made him do the funky chicken)

    Again I feel AJ is certainly aggressive enough, big enough and strong enough to land early on deontay and he's also got superior hand speed.


    However I certainly agree whoever lands big first will be at a major advantage and it's certainly not beyond wilders capabilities to land clean and hard. Also agree 100% Re: fury

    One thing is for sure it should be a great spectacle when it finally comes to pass.

    Edit pacman beat me to it




  • I don't think anyone doubts that Wilder has chance against anyone in the division if he lands. Best one punch power in the division bar none imo.

    It's not a 50/50 fight though as AJ is easily the better boxer and sets up his shots far better. You wouldn't see Joshua get outboxed by Washington or Szpilka like Wilder did. The advantages are with AJ in this fight for sure.




  • pac_man wrote: »
    I've just replaced Wilder with Joshua in your point. Any point you would disagree with?

    No issue. And if you read my post you will see where I noted that AJ could get to Wilder first..

    I also pretty much put my bet down to Wilder being for me a faster starter, more in your face aggressive.

    I would back Wilder to get to AJ first.

    This fight doesn't go past 3 IMO..

    It is a combination of Wilder being a fast starter with power and AJs chin not taking the power....

    Edit: I disagree that AJ is the more aggressive and faster starter...

    That for me is Wilder, and that for me ios why he gets to AJ first....Could I be wrong? sure...

    BTW, not sure what your post was meant to show......you switched names. Great.....

    Anyone backing either man with any real confidence would be foolish. I am simply leaning with Wilder due to my points about him being a heavy hitting aggressive and faster starter. I believe he has this in greater capacity than AJ.




  • Morrison J wrote: »
    I don't think anyone doubts that Wilder has chance against anyone in the division if he lands. Best one punch power in the division bar none imo.

    It's not a 50/50 fight though as AJ is easily the better boxer and sets up his shots far better. You wouldn't see Joshua get outboxed by Washington or Szpilka like Wilder did. The advantages are with AJ in this fight for sure.

    If I had confidence in AJs chin and defence I would definitely lean with him.

    I don't, and that is bad news against a heavy hitting fast starter like Wilder.

    Up until the Wlad fight we had nothing of real note to go on with AJ.

    He showed a good chin to take a lovely shot from Whyte, but then he was on absolute queer street against Wlad.

    I had some confidence after the Whye shot, but after the Wlad fight, and the fact that it's Wilder throwing shots, my confidence isn't enough.


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  • if Wlad had the power put him down, Wilder will certainly have more than enough to floor him




  • akelly02 wrote: »
    if Wlad had the power put him down, Wilder will certainly have more than enough to floor him

    And the shot Wlad caught him with was good, but not great. Maybe it was more where he caught him/ Kind of high on the head.

    Anyway, Wilder will be throwing with even more speed and intent and force....




  • walshb wrote: »
    And the shot Wlad caught him with was good, but not great. Maybe it was more where he caught him/ Kind of high on the head.

    Anyway, Wilder will be throwing with even more speed and intent and force....

    looking forward to it already




  • I'm not sure why your christening Wilder such a fast starter. He's gone rounds with pretty much any live opponent he's gone up against. 9 rounds with Eric Molina...

    I think AJ is every bit if not the quicker starter out of the two of them. He also has a jab which let's him dictate the fight on his terms to an extent. Wilder fundamentally is bang average.

    Personally I have far more faith in AJ's chin post the Wlad fight compared to before. Wlad is a massive puncher and AJ took some big shots quite well. To even get up from the knockdown punch was commendable. That was a massive, flush shot.

    The feather fisted, by heavyweight standards, Dillian Whyte having him stunned was a lot more concerning imo.




  • Morrison J wrote: »

    The feather fisted, by heavyweight standards, Dillian Whyte having him stunned was a lot more concerning imo.

    Well, there you go.....




  • Morrison J wrote: »
    I'm not sure why your christening Wilder such a fast starter. He's gone rounds with pretty much any live opponent he's gone up against. 9 rounds with Eric Molina...

    Not with you on this....

    Just because a fighter goes several rds doesn't mean he is not a fast starter.

    Aaron Pryor was a fast starter.......still went the distance on occasions....btw, I am not saying Wilder is comparable to Pryor as regards being a fast starter. Juts saying that being a fast starter doesn't mean that you win inside a few rds all the time.

    AJ is certainly not a slow starter. I just happen to think that Wilder might get to land that killer blow first. Hardly shocking to think this...

    Wilder is a faster starter than AJ. That's what it looks to me.




  • walshb wrote:
    Aaron Pryor was a fast starter.......still went the distance on occasions....btw, I am not saying Wilder is comparable to Pryor as regards being a fast starter. Juts saying that being a fast starter doesn't mean that you win inside a few rds all the time.


    Right, but Pryor is a light welterweight. He's obviously not going to have the same one punch power. I'd expect a one punch KO artist like Wilder, if a quick starter, to one punch KO people early. Wilder often gets outboxed for large portions of his fights before landing that big shot. I'd nearly call him a slow starter a lot of the time tbh. Definitely not a notorious fast starter for me anyway.

    Joshua establishes the jab early imo and eventually lands an overhand right.

    I'd fancy Joshua big time in this fight personally. Obviously Wilder has a strong punchers chance though.




  • Morrison J wrote: »
    Right, but Pryor is a light welterweight. He's obviously not going to have the same one punch power. I'd expect a one punch KO artist like Wilder, if a quick starter, to one punch KO people early. Wilder often gets outboxed for large portions of his fights before landing that big shot. I'd nearly call him a slow starter a lot of the time tbh. Definitely not a notorious fast starter for me anyway.

    Joshua establishes the jab early imo and eventually lands an overhand right.

    I'd fancy Joshua big time in this fight personally. Obviously Wilder has a strong punchers chance though.

    Yes, but Wilder is winging the big shots right from the first bell. That is my point as regards fast starter. No hanging around. Straight in with the power shots, and I don't think AJ does a good job f defending or taking them. I reckon Wilder does land clean on AJ early for the KO.

    Of course, AJ could also land clean and early for the KO. I just think that Wilder beats him to it.




  • walshb wrote: »
    Morrison J wrote: »
    Right, but Pryor is a light welterweight. He's obviously not going to have the same one punch power. I'd expect a one punch KO artist like Wilder, if a quick starter, to one punch KO people early. Wilder often gets outboxed for large portions of his fights before landing that big shot. I'd nearly call him a slow starter a lot of the time tbh. Definitely not a notorious fast starter for me anyway.

    Joshua establishes the jab early imo and eventually lands an overhand right.

    I'd fancy Joshua big time in this fight personally. Obviously Wilder has a strong punchers chance though.

    Yes, but Wilder is winging the big shots right from the first bell. That is my point as regards fast starter. No hanging around. Straight in with the power shots, and I don't think AJ does a good job or defending or taking them. I reckon Wilder does land clean on AJ early for the KO.

    Of corse, AJ could also land clean and early for the KO. I just think that Wilder beats him to it.
    He'll need to have serious balls to be coming in like a mad man swinging hooks with his chin in the air against someone like AJ.

    There is a strong argument for Wilder landing one at some point and winning but surely the more sensible argument is to pick the one with both power and good boxing ability compared to the one with power and very limited boxing ability. That's what it comes down to for me. AJ just has far more dimensions to his game really.




  • I did like Wilder to some extent and had hoped that he'd be a serious champ but he's been disappointing. Year on year, though I don't like him, AJ has improved while Wilder has relied more and more on his attributes to get past similar poor standard boxers after being unconvincing during the fight. For me AJ wins by KO inside 3


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  • akelly02 wrote: »
    if Wlad had the power put him down, Wilder will certainly have more than enough to floor him

    Despite his safety first approach Wlad has serious power when he decides to throw his straight right or a left hook. KO ratio of 77% across 69 fights. Higher than Tyson amongst others. Although tbf that includes 'non prime' Tyson too. :D




  • pac_man wrote: »
    I'm not sure what your stance is. On the one hand, you're saying "Anyone backing either man with any real confidence would be foolish" yet on the other hand you're saying " the smart money" is Wilder? I'm confused.

    Yes, any man would be foolish to back with certainty. That was my point. Nothing confusing.

    By smart money I am saying that the post I raised regarding the bout would lead me to believe that it's smarter to back Wilder. Not fool proof. I could be tripped up, but "if I had to out money down" I believe the smarter money is on Wilder.

    Smart as smart can be. Still a risk. Not near certain. I'd make Wilder a 55-45 type favorite..Maybe 60-40.




  • pac_man wrote: »

    The way you're going on, you make it out that Wilders chin is superior. Imagine if AJ got knocked down of this chap(40 seconds into the clip). I know it's a few years ago but even to the present day, his technique is awful for a world champion. Wilder by name, wild by nature.


    I am not in any way making out Wilder's chin to be superior. I just said that Wilder probably finds AJ before AJ finds Wilder. I don't think AJ takes a clean heavy Wilder shot. I also don't think Wilder takes a clean heavy AJ shot.

    You're confusing yourself by trying to see things that are not there.

    Read my last sentence in post 52. It's quite clear.




  • walshb wrote: »
    Yes, any man would be foolish to back with certainty. That was my point. Nothing confusing.

    By smart money I am saying that the post I raised regarding the bout would lead me to believe that it's smarter to back Wilder. Not fool proof. I could be tripped up, but if I had to out money down I believe the smart money is on Wilder.

    Smart as smart can be. Still a risk. Not near certain. I'd make Wilder a 55-45 type favorite..Maybe 60-40.

    I disagree with you on the likely outcome here but Wilder will be a solid underdog in this fight. He's 3/1 on Oddschecker atm which obv may change if a fight were announced (not too much mind). Anyway that is a cracking bet if you make Wilder 60/40 fav.




  • I disagree with you on the likely outcome here but Wilder will be a solid underdog in this fight. He's 3/1 on Oddschecker atm which obv may change if a fight were announced (not too much mind). Anyway that is a cracking bet if you make Wilder 60/40 fav.

    I am aware that the bookies would likely make AJ a favorite. For me this would be be one real possibility of them getting it wrong, for reasons I stated.




  • pac_man wrote: »
    That shot from Wlad would have knocked down a house. An absolute peach of a shot. I was more impressed with the recuperative reaction of Joshua of been able to get up after that shot.

    I kind of disagree on the shot. Good shot, but I think it was more where he hit as opposed to force. It was a right cross with not much speed on it. Thrown in a half defensive type mode. Didn't really step in behind it.

    I am not saying it was weak, but I just didn't see it a s some real dinger. Good shot, but nothing wow, and it had AJ out of it. Properly so. He did recover. I will give him that. A better finisher and a more intense follow up and AJ was gone.

    I though Whyte's shot was a better shot. Better placed, faster and likely more force. AJ did recover fairly well form that.

    And for me Wilder can throw real dingers. I would not be confident at all that AJ survives.




  • walshb wrote: »
    I am aware that the bookies would likely make AJ a favorite. For me this would be be one real possibility of them getting it wrong, for reasons I stated.

    Oh I wasn't ridiculing your thought process on this by the way. So hard to find any value in betting and boxing in particular so genuinely meant that is a cracking bet if that's how you view the fight.




  • Despite his safety first approach Wlad has serious power when he decides to throw his straight right or a left hook. KO ratio of 77% across 69 fights. Higher than Tyson amongst others. Although tbf that includes 'non prime' Tyson too. :D

    Wilder is the hardest hitting heavyweight in the world I don't think many disagree. That's not to say wlad hasn't got power




  • Oh I wasn't ridiculing your thought process on this by the way. So hard to find any value in betting and boxing in particular so genuinely meant that is a cracking bet if that's how you view the fight.

    I know you weren't.

    It's just one of several fights where the bookies can get it wrong.

    When I look at both and analyse their strengths and weaknesses I see Wilder getting the job done.

    One thing that would shock me would be a points fight...

    This does not last all that ling. Two big and too heavy hitting and likely both too chinny/vulnerable to allow this to last long.

    I compare it to Hearns-Julian Jackson at 154 lbs. Not their styles or the way they fight, or the betting odds. More the outcome and length that the fight lasts.

    For me the smarter money is Hearns. I think he finds JJs chin a little quicker, and JJs chin is not sturdy enough. Nor is Hearns, by the way.


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  • I disagree with you on the likely outcome here but Wilder will be a solid underdog in this fight. He's 3/1 on Oddschecker atm which obv may change if a fight were announced (not too much mind). Anyway that is a cracking bet if you make Wilder 60/40 fav.

    Same odds as McGregor to beat Mayweather :pac:


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