The Dublin Coach Experience

devnull

In respect of Dublin Coach, there is currently an ongoing court case between them, Evobus (Mercedes) and Dawsons' rentals about whose fault it is in terms of some alleged issues with the Tourismos which were supplied.

https://caseboard.io/cases/f709a136-b67e-4e0a-bf21-3ec0ef7fb92e (see timeline tab)

To quote an earlier article in the Irish Independent

The High Court in London has heard that Last Bus alleges some or all of the Tourismos supplied to it under the agreement were “not of satisfactory quality”, which it claimed was in breach of terms.

Last Bus (Dublin Coach) has alleged that as a result, four of the new buses suffered fires, three of which it claims were caused by a defective exhaust cooling system. The Irish company claims the fleet of coaches has required a more rigorous and expensive maintenance regime as a result.

EvoBus denies the claims. It insists that one exhaust system fire was caused by contaminated fuel.

A “thermal incident” on another coach was a result of an air hose linked to an engine cooling system having been disconnected by Last Bus, it claims.

Other incidents referred to by Last Bus were the fault of Last Bus or its agents, EvoBus insists.

Jameslee23

Probably means they’ll have to get rid of the Mercedes coaches in 2026

LiamaDelta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557618#Comment_121557618

On this point, I have been in email tennis with the NTA for a while now and I asked them what their criteria is for whether a service is operating in 'compliance' and more specifically how do they decide if an operator is compliant with regard to punctuality and service operation i.e. how late is late and how many services need to be missed before they decide that an operator is not compliant. They are refusing to tell me.

Unfortunately we are unable to give specific information on some of your questions as it may prejudice or impair the prevention, detection or investigations of offences or the effectiveness of lawful methods, systems, plans or procedures employed for the purpose of enforcement.

Hi to the NTA heads lurking here...yes it's me asking you to publish your own standards!

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562379#Comment_121562379

They probably do not have any written standards. Have you tried a FOI request for them?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558943#Comment_121558943

Do they not have brake/gear locks that won't let the bus move until the door is fully closed like a lot of the newer city buses do?

Jameslee23

I’ve also heard rumour that Dublin Coach is going to be purchasing 2019 VDL double deckers

AX612

Years ago nothing had that system known as the “door brake” but it's been massive impacted on buses and coaches here since late 2000s/early 2010s?. Not sure about Dublin Coach but I know that one of the 2012 Vanhools can drive with the door open.

Regarding the rumor from jameslee23, 2019 VDL's from where?

Bus Eireann run a very large fleet of VDLs but I'm not sure if Dublin Coach would go for them, they want cheapest of the cheap which is why they went for the Scania Ayats..

LiamaDelta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562830#Comment_121562830

Not yet!

Jameslee23

I’ve heard a rumour, but parsley, I don’t think it’s ever gonna come back that they’re thinking about bringing back the k-coach

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562379#Comment_121562379

That's saying lots of nothing ....classic of our quangos, be it NTA, RSA, EPA etc

If a business is getting public money/ subsidies to run a service, there must be min standards for the operation of the service and the quality /maintenance of the fleet, above an d beyond the norm for commercial vehicles. After all, they are public service vehicles.

What sort of country are we still where it's harder to loose something than it is to get it. There just has to be mandatory conpliance benchmark and routine visible and covert inspections to monitor things like punctuality, cleanliness of vehicles (exterior and interior), maintenance (ref picture of door with cable ties and stories of front doors not operating)

If we had deregulated or private mainline railway operators, I would not like to think there would be no mandatory safety inspection of the rolling stock, and publically available charter for same.

bureau2009

Can't see the Belfast route resuming - been off almost 4 years since Covid. And especially as Dublin Express (National Express) have nabbed this route and are running it with flair, experience and professionalism.

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562379#Comment_121562379

Sorry to say but you are wasting your time and money trying to get anything out of the NTA, they have made it very clear over the years that when it comes to commercial licences their primary concern is the protection of private companies and themselves rather than the interest of the public.

Any attempt at getting even the most basic information about the licences they grant is met with a refusal due to commercial confidentiality.

Apparently the public has no right to know anything about the conditions operators are supposed to abide by in their licence, we are just supposed to assume that everything is correctly run be these companies who are granted semi-exclusive, exclusionary licences giving them (apparently never-ending) ownership on entire routes.

Due to the complete lack of any enforcement ever being taken by the NTA on any of their licencees we should also assume that according to the NTA no commercial operator has ever been less than 100% compliant with all regulations.

Sadly I do not believe that any of this will change, the NTA will continue to act in complete secrecy, granting licences to whomever they like based on submissions we are not allowed see and rulings we are not privy to. Apparently providing oversight on these public service operators without providing any details of how and what, if any, oversight they actually perform.

I certainly do not wish it to happen but only the aftermath of a serious incident caused by the actions of a badly run bus company is probably the only thing that will clean up this industry and it's rogue actors. If that were to happen I would be shouting from the rooftops for Anne Graham and her subordinates to be held liable alongside her licencee for any liability due to shoddy practices and safety breaches.

Just to be clear, the entrance door(s) to pretty much every bus/coach I have ever seen is also a designated emergency exit with a quick release mechanism to facilitate emergency evacuation, to allow a bus run in service with this door barricaded shut with multiple cable ties as pictured above is a disgraceful disregarding of the safety of all on board.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573403#Comment_121573403

I fully agree with you about not getting a meaningful response etc. However, it is not a full waste of time. It helps to focus the minds of those in the NTA to take responsibility for their job. If/when there is an inquiry these requests have created a paper trail, showing the public were concerned with the NTA's overview of the industry.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573458#Comment_121573458

Agreed. By doing nothing, nothing will change.

No bus, public or private operator, should be on the road that has cable ties and a belt affixed to a door. The optics of that for the customers are not good.

mikeybhoy

Blocking emmergency exits shut have we learned nothing from Stardust. Of course it will take a tragedy before anything is done with this operator.

They need to ordered to either get their fleet maintenance in order or have their operators licence revoked it is simply not acceptable in this day and age or any day and age to be operating buses unfit for the road in passenger service.

VOSA or the traffic commissioners in the UK wouldn't put up this nonsense. I would say if there is to be a serious incident as a result of this this companies breaches of the law then the NTA, RSA and AGS are almost equally responsible as the operator.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572357#Comment_121572357

Have to agree. Got this a few months to Belfast back and I was highly impressed. Clean well kept new buses with very professional drivers. Ran on the button time wise

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574975#Comment_121574975

There is never any defence to that kind of thing. It's just like how I saw previously some years ago where they stuffed paper between two panels on a Setra to stop the really annoying squeaking rather than actually fixing the problem and also the time that they had the inside panel of the emergency exit roof cover missing so the internals of it were exposed. All signs of corners being cut on maintenance by such fixes rather than spending the actual money to do it properly which will of course add to costs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575179#Comment_121575179

They were found guilty of breaches in 2018 by the RSA in terms of tachograph breaches, driver hours and other related breaches, and the RSA said there was 'serious and systematic non-compliance'

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/local-news/405228/dublin-coach-firm-fined-for-drivers-not-taking-rest-periods.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575961#Comment_121575961

That's because National Express are operationally and commercially very savvy and don't cut corners.

Jameslee23

I see there they start using the 09 Mercedes on the Portarlington route now

AX612

You probably meant the 08 Setra which is usually on the 750

Meanwhile tonight the white King Long 141 reg is on the 750. I got it myself from Dundrum to Red Cow. Driver had to shut down the bus and start it up again a few times as it wouldn't go into gear, and a loud whistle noise when the bus was at a high speed. Buses are not meant to be like F1 cars but my god this thing was slow.. sat around the 80ish mark on the M50!

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575961#Comment_121575961

Same, I travelled with DX to Belfast a few months ago. Excellent experience, very nice coach, perhaps arguably one of the nicest in Ireland, great leg room. Easy to book and great professional service.

I can’t see DC competing with that. Would be better for them to stick to the routes they unfortunately have a monopoly on.

I suppose they could compete with Aircoach instead, which are looking increasingly weak with their terrible business decisions.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576006#Comment_121576006

To be fair putting paper to wedge up rattling would be the least of my worries with DC. Usually it's drivers themselves who do this without authorisation from the company.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578440#Comment_121578440

Well considering some of the coaches in question were like this for a considerable period, it would suggest if maintenance were performing any kind of inspections of the inside of the coaches they would have known about it rather than the drivers keeping it from them.

The point is that such half baked solutions and use of belts to close doors and things like that, show you that they are prepared to put in place DIY solutions rather than doing things the proper way that they should be done.

Jameslee23

Maybe they should copy what like JJ Kavanagh does in the future and replace the coaches after 10 years old

devnull

The problem isn't with the age of the coaches itself, it's the maintenance.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580921#Comment_121580921

I’d argue it is a bit of both or perhaps more accurately the company attitude.

First it is buying old coaches that have already had an extremely hard life with other top operators running almost 24/7 and then continuing to use them in that manner when they are now too old for that sort of operations.

And then it isn’t maintaining them properly.

It all smacks of a cheap operator who is penny pinching. Buying cheap heavily used second hand coaches and then using them hard while not investing in proper maintenance for them. Basically operating on a shoe string budget.

By comparison all the other major intercity coach companies seem to invest in regularly buying fleets of new coaches, using them hard for a few years, maintaining them properly and then selling them off to smaller operators before they get too old.

Young fleets tend to have less issues, issues that do crop up are covered by manufacturer warranty and require less costly maintenance. But that all requires upfront capital that I’m guessing DC can’t get for various reasons.

Jameslee23

Like with the double-deckers they bought in 2022. The warranty on those would be about 3 to 5 years and with the older coaches. I think they should put them on the 300 and the 600 routes as they only run until 1030 at night

Jameslee23

I heard rumour that Dublin Coach might be purchasing hybrid buses

AX612

I call bull on that

Jameslee23

I know, Scania said they won’t be making diesel trucks and buses after 2025

AX612

That yellow sprinter that was on the 750 was crawling out to the airport roundabout with no headlights and the hazards on