saorview signal loss

coolvale

hi during the recent hot weather we lost our saorview channels,they are back now.this also happened last year.
we live near kill in co,waterford & getting the signal from dungarvan.
before saorview it came from mt.leinster without any problem for years.
i am thinking of changing to saorsat.
any ideas please.
thanks
tony

Gerry Wicklow

Be aware that Saorsat does not include the TV3 suite of channels, only RTÉ and TG4

coolvale

thanks for your reply.
yes i was aware of that.
would it be more reliable than saorview ?

Hoagy

Could you turn the aerial to Mt Leinster?
If you used to get signal from there it could well work, Mt Leinster is a much more powerful transmitter.

Thurston?

coolvale wrote: »

hi during the recent hot weather we lost our saorview channels,they are back now.this also happened last year.
we live near kill in co,waterford & getting the signal from dungarvan.
before saorview it came from mt.leinster without any problem for years.

So you're saying yourself or an aerial installer changed the existing Mt. Leinster setup to receive from Dungarvan?

You're not just going by where the Saorview coverage checker says your signal is coming from?

coolvale

on the saorview changeover i had a new aerial fitted by an installer who changed it to dungarvan he said we are nearer to dungarvan than mt leinster.

Thurston?

You didn't have any Saorview reception from Mt. Leinster then? If you had the proper UHF aerial for TV3 & TG4 analogue, & had decent reception of those, it should have worked for Saorview, once analogue was switched off & Saorview moved to the vacant channels.

It's possible Dungarvan is the best choice for your location, regardless of it being nearer, since as mentioned above, Mt. Leinster is a much more powerful & high altitude site. The installer wouldn't necessarily know how things would play out with the kind of atmospheric conditions that encourage interference from distant transmitters using the same frequencies, if that's what is causing your problem, & it's possible you'd also get this co-channel interference to Mt. Leinster too.

coolvale

i just found the coverage map for saorview & was able to pinpoint our house.
according to the map we should be on the mt leinster or suir valley transmitter.by moving the pointer very slight it goes from one to the other.

Thurston?

Worth trying a change, I suppose.

coolvale

it looks like i got 2 choices.
1 try mt leinster
2 go for saorsat.
tony

Thurston?

I'd definitely try Mt. Leinster &, if it's not workable due to some local obstruction (hills, trees etc.), then give Suir Valley a go, although Mt. L. should currently be far less susceptible to co-channel interference, given the lack of 'opposition' it has. There's the issue of the 700 MHz band clearance & related frequency replan, happening within the next 2-3 years, which could see this 'opposition' increase, & will see transmitters like Dungarvan & Suir Valley move to lower frequencies, possibly needing different aerials depending on what was originally installed (wideband v. grouped), what frequencies they end up using, & what reception is like.

Saorsat, apart from the lack of TV3 & offshoots (which I personally wouldn't miss), has had reports here of programmes being blacked out seemingly due to rights issues, I assume with the signal being available in NI, though this is also true of Saorview for large areas.

Did you notice is it all of Saorview you lose, or is RTE1 still there when the problem arises?

Antenna

Huntshaw Cross (Devon) uses the same channels (55 and 59) as Dungarvan, I'm not saying that is what knocked it out for the OP, though it might be if the OP has a clear path out to sea in that direction?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntshaw_Cross_transmitting_station
AN alternative transmitter as others have said might be the the easiest cure. Mt Leinster (if possible) would also have the advantage of being off air less often due to outages (planned or otherwise)

I remember on car radio managing to hear 'Heart' radio from Huntshaw Cross on 96.2 (though not strongly enough for RDS) at a coastal location a few months ago during good conditions

coolvale

Thurston? wrote: »

I'd definitely try Mt. Leinster &, if it's not workable due to some local obstruction (hills, trees etc.), then give Suir Valley a go, although Mt. L. should currently be far less susceptible to co-channel interference, given the lack of 'opposition' it has. There's the issue of the 700 MHz band clearance & related frequency replan, happening within the next 2-3 years, which could see this 'opposition' increase, & will see transmitters like Dungarvan & Suir Valley move to lower frequencies, possibly needing different aerials depending on what was originally installed (wideband v. grouped), what frequencies they end up using, & what reception is like.

Saorsat, apart from the lack of TV3 & offshoots (which I personally wouldn't miss), has had reports here of programmes being blacked out seemingly due to rights issues, I assume with the signal being available in NI, though this is also true of Saorview for large areas.

Did you notice is it all of Saorview you lose, or is RTE1 still there when the problem arises?

we lose all the saorview when it goes.
tony

Thurston?

coolvale wrote: »

we lose all the saorview when it goes.

Right, I was just curious to see if the Maghera transmitter might be the culprit, since it seems to cause me occasional problems (maybe once or twice a year), but it only shares 1 of its frequencies with 'my' transmitter, which uses the same freqs. as Dungarvan, so I only lose mux 1, with RTE2, TV3 & TG4.

coolvale

my aerial installer called.
it seems the signal we are getting is to strong so he turned the aerial a bit away to weaken the signal.
so far so good.
we shall have to wait & see how that goes.
tony

Thurston?

I'd have my doubts about that being the problem, but I could be wrong, & I'm obviously at a bit of a remove compared to your installer.

coolvale

i did not think a signal could be to strong.if it is to strong could it break up.
i do not grasp this either.just wait & see.
i can understand if it is to weak.
tony

Thurston?

Oh it can be too strong alright, it's just that Dungarvan isn't an especially powerful transmitter, & you're what, about 20 miles from it? But like I said, someone who's actually been out & done the measurement will have more of an idea than I would here.

The Cush

coolvale wrote: »

i did not think a signal could be to strong.if it is to strong could it break up.

Measured signal level at the receiver should be in the range 50 dBμV - 75 dBμV, above or below this may cause problems. An amplifier in the setup can overload the tuner with too much signal also.

coolvale

The Cush wrote: »

Measured signal level at the receiver should be in the range 50 dBμV - 75 dBμV, above or below this may cause problems. An amplifier in the setup can overload the tuner with too much signal also.

my amp was disconnected & the signal went completely.

can an aerial be to good ?
tony

Thurston?

So there's still an amplifier in the system, & I assume then the aerial is feeding more than a single TV?

Overload problems are easily avoided if they're only caused in the first place by an installer whacking in a big lump of unnecessary amplification.

As regards the aerial, I wouldn't worry about overspec'ing there, with there not being a huge difference between moderate & high gain aerials.

coolvale

we do have 2 tvs
the signal went with only 1 tv on.
the amp was disconnected & tried with a meter on the aerial that go into the tv with the second tv turned off & there was no signal.
the aerial is a wideband high gain uhf grid.
tony

Thurston?

TVs being turned on or not doesn't affect the amount of signal the other(s) get.

So the amplifier was bypassed, not just powered off?

Maybe the 'amplifier' is actually just a power supply, with the actual amplifier (masthead type) being remotely located, but since you referred to this person as 'my installer', I'm assuming they installed the setup in the 1st place, so wouldn't make a mistake like that? (Though you'd expect they'd be able to tell the difference between an amp. & PSU, whether they installed it or not.)

Grid aerials aren't all that 'high gain' BTW, despite the often-used description.

coolvale

the amp was bypassed.
yes it was installed by him originally.
what is a psu ?
this is all to technical for me. either it works or it dont.

tony

Thurston?

PSU = Power Supply Unit: puts DC voltage on the aerial lead to power an amplifier that can be mounted outside near the aerial, where it does most good in weak signal situations, or where there is a long downlead.

Seems a bit odd if removing an amplifier causes things to weaken to a 'no signal' situation, & replacing it results in overload, which the installer then 'fixes' by moving the aerial off its peak gain alignment?

coolvale

maybe a bit odd.i don't know.
will have to wait & see. it would have been ok this weather any way it's just that hot weather with no breeze we got the problem.

tony

coolvale

i got hold of a tv & sat signal finder (analogue & digital).
i connected the aerial from the back of the tv to it & all 12 lights lit up bright.
reading the instructions it says 12 lights on is a strong signal. "attention may be required" ?

tony

The Cush

coolvale wrote: »

"attention may be required" ?

Attention or attenuation?

coolvale

The Cush wrote: »

Attention or attenuation?

sorry " attenuation " what do that mean ?
tony

The Cush

coolvale wrote: »

sorry " attenuation " what do that mean ?
tony

Signal coming in is too high and should be reduced (attenuated) to within an acceptable level.

Normally done by putting a fixed or variable signal attenuator in line
http://cpcireland.farnell.com/w/c/audio-visual/aerials-satellite/prl/results?st=attenuator

Thurston?

coolvale wrote: »

i got hold of a tv & sat signal finder (analogue & digital).
i connected the aerial from the back of the tv to it & all 12 lights lit up bright.
reading the instructions it says 12 lights on is a strong signal.

Maybe post the make/model/any other printed info. on the 'amplifier' or whatever it is, or a pic. showing same.

coolvale

i will try & explain the set up.the aerial & 3 boxes are in the attic.
1 lead coming from aerial to blue box.the leads in this box are tightened with screws (not pushed in type).
1 lead from blue box to a power unit which is plugged into mains.
1 lead from power unit to amp which is plugged into mains.
2 leads from amp 1 to each tv (got 2)

the amp is - teleste multipoint 2 tv/fm booster model mse121.

this is all beyond me. do i need those 3 boxes ?
i prefer to get someone to come along & sorted it out.
either that or go for saorsat.

tony

Thurston?

From that description, it would seem the blue box contains a masthead amplifier, & then you have the Teleste distribution amp., which seems to be quite an old model, so probably predates the current aerial installation. (And I can't find any data for it re. its gain figure.)

Looks like some of this amplification is unnecessary, & I suppose the easiest to try removing would be the Teleste amp., & replace it with a 2-way splitter.

Was the aerial for Mt. Leinster in the attic too?

coolvale

the old analogue system was in the attic from mt leinster.
it was when saorview came it was changed to dungarvan & since then the problem started in the hot weather.

tony

Thurston?

I mentioned it already but, you must have had poor or no Saorview reception from Mt. L., & poor analogue TV3 & TG4 before that?

Or maybe you didn't have TVs or boxes capable of Saorview reception, & the installer supplied those too? Not strictly relevant to your problem with Dungarvan, just trying to get more of a handle on this installer ...

Don't know if fading effects that can be caused by hot weather would bring on an overload problem, though in the case of attic aerials I suppose another possibility could be the house structure drying out letting more signal in.

coolvale

had a guy called re the saorview signal.
first thing he done was tested the signal from the aerial at the tv.he said it was forever to strong.
when he saw the setup in the attic he said we don't need 2 amps they were boosting the signal to high.
he took away the blue box (amp) & the power unit.
we now have the aerial going into an amp which is connected to the mains for power.
2 leads coming from the amp to the 2 televisions.
he changed the position of the aerial. the signal is now coming from waterford.
that should now be all sorted.
thanks to all who took the time to read my posts & to those who replied.

tony