Mac V PC Debate….

seachto7

Maybe this ain’t the right forum, but should be good for a laugh at the very least?

I’m in the market most likely for a laptop. A desktop wouldn’t be practical for me now.

Looking at a Macbook, but bloody hell, they seem, to me, to be way overpriced. I’d only be using it for general stuff and some music making, but nothing high powered. Demos using plugins etc.

Advice has been to look at a high spec Windows machine, like a gaming machine, which would have the power to service my needs, but from what I’ve seen, these can still be pricey enough.

The big question is, paying €1,200 for a Macbook and, say, €600 for a high spec Windows machine, which is going to last longer?

I’ve had laptops that have fried after a few years, so in the long run might have been better paying for a Mac, and it lasting for ages.

No CD/DVD drive is a let down for the Apples too.

And I won’t post the Snuff Box sketch either….

Omackeral

seachto7 wrote: »

Maybe this ain’t the right forum, but should be good for a laugh at the very least?

I’m in the market most likely for a laptop. A desktop wouldn’t be practical for me now.

I wouldn't count on it.

BrokenArrows

seachto7 wrote: »

Maybe this ain’t the right forum, but should be good for a laugh at the very least?

I’m in the market most likely for a laptop. A desktop wouldn’t be practical for me now.

Looking at a Macbook, but bloody hell, they seem, to me, to be way overpriced. I’d only be using it for general stuff and some music making, but nothing high powered. Demos using plugins etc.

Advice has been to look at a high spec Windows machine, like a gaming machine, which would have the power to service my needs, but from what I’ve seen, these can still be pricey enough.

The big question is, paying €1,200 for a Macbook and, say, €600 for a high spec Windows machine, which is going to last longer?

I’ve had laptops that have fried after a few years, so in the long run might have been better paying for a Mac, and it lasting for ages.

No CD/DVD drive is a let down for the Apples too.

And I won’t post the Snuff Box sketch either….

Your fried laptops could probably have been repaired for pretty cheap and lasted for another few years.
If your apple breaks its going to cost you big time.

Apples break as well. You just don't hear people talking about it.

Sonics2k

The real problem is that people tend to go off and buy a cheap laptop from PC World or Tesco, one of those low spec ones that cost about €250 for the manufacturer to build, but then go off and compare them to the €1,100 Macbooks.

Get a Mac if you want a 'mid-range' laptop that does an okay job and looks nice, but don't expect a lifetime of support, because Apple give you one year of it.

Get a laptop if you want a lot longer support, and will probably be higher spec'd too, just make sure you buy it from a good company like Overclockers.co.uk

Losty Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

Apple's break as well. You just don't hear people talking about it.

Mac's do break down but here's my experience of what happened....

Mac 1 that broke down was a 2005 iMac. It failed on me in 2007. A quick check online led me to a recall on the model for failed power converters. A service call to Apple got me an appointment and a complete replacement of the motherboard and the offending power unit. I sold it in 2015 for €150

Mac 2 was a Macbook I bought in 2007 and who's HD went in 2008. A new HD cost me €160 and was fitted by an Apple certified technician. A year later and I discovered that there was a retrospective recall on some laptops, but for any affected customers to contact them anyway even if their model had been repaired elsewhere. I rang up and, once they were satisfied that my model was covered, they offered me the option of either a new HD or a full refund upon they getting a receipt. I sold the Macbook in 2011 for €550.

Net cost to me; zero and in both cases I got a good resale price.

By contrast I've heard so so many stories of people who've bought Window machines from all brands and who've had to fight hard for warranty repairs, more often than not unsuccessfully at that. Yes, Apple machines are dear and yes they may appear underspecced when compared to Window machines but the longevity, performance and after service care makes up for a lot.

OP, Mac's come with a recording suite software called Garageband; this should be of use to you out of the box.

deceit

I use a Macbook in work and windows/Linux machines at home. I didn't have to worry about the cost so I choose the Macbook pro for work otherwise I would have chosen a Windows machine.

I would generally recommend users to purchase a windows laptop and save on the apple tax.
They are generally pretty similar in terms of reliability of the hardware and the OS (Osx and Apps seem to crash more for me on Mac but that could be work related more than anything else).

You will get inferior hardware in a nice shell with Apple laptops for twice the price of more powerful windows laptops.

Reasons I would pick a Mac:
Form was more important to you than function but if that's the case you can consider the LG gram Windows laptops or other high end laptops.

The track-pad and gestures are the best I've ever used on a portable device.

You want to use the Apple ecosystem for all of you data/entertainment etc.

You are more familiar with Unix like systems than Windows. (This is why I like it in work)

biko

Do you have a beard and really tight jeans, get a Mac.
Do you "like" computers but don't really know them too well, get a PC.

suicide_circus

Are you planning on spending a lot of time in Starbucks?

seachto7

I've used Garageband before on other people's Macs, and they always worked well, easily, and quickly.

Using laptops, half the battle was wasting time getting things set up, synced etc, but I think I've cracked that nut recently.

I have no brand loyalty. Even though I have an iphone, I'm not a big fan of them. Battery is useless. I don't buy anything off itunes, and YES I HAVE CDs AND DVDs that I'd like to use still!

I won an ipad a while back, and find it ok. Nothing special.

ScumLord

People do seem to go for really cheap windows laptops and wonder why they don't compare to an expensive Mac.

I think Macs often use a restricted set of PC hardware too, so it's running well within it's capabilities. You would generally get more hardware for your money by going PC (remember that when it comes to hardware macs and PCs are exactly the same) a €1200 windows PC compared to a €1200 mac would have better hardware and a higher spec.

Macs have good cases but if you spend the same amount of money on a PC laptop you'll also get a good case.

After that it's all down to the software, you simply won't be able to run the same amount of software on a mac that you can run on a PC, if you have any interest in gaming then you're going to have to choose PC, mac support is an afterthought if they think of it at all.

When you get good parts a PC will last as long as you need it too, I usually get a good 10 years out of my desktop PC with a few graphics card upgrades thrown in.

seachto7

The reason I mentioned a gaming PC, as it was suggested these would be good for recording music, and using plug ins etc, they'd cope with the load.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

eeguy

You'll get more bang for your buck for a non Mac laptop.
Keep an eye on hotukdeals.com for a few weeks and see if something takes your fancy.

Here's one from yesterday https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/asus-rog-strix-zx553vd-dm640t-156-inch-fhd-gaming-laptop-with-gaming-backpack-and-mouse-and-amazon-for-74999-2739618

Gravelly

I have been using laptops since the early days (early 2000's) and the following is my experience. I travel a bit, so the laptop can get shaken around a bit, and I rely heavily on it for work. I used to use top-end windows laptops - Toshiba, HP, Sony etc. I averaged 16-18 months per laptop before a major failure of some kind. 5 years ago, I changed to the then top-spec Mac Air. I still have it, and it has never once failed in any way. I get it serviced by Apple when I'm in the States, usually around every 18 months or so. Aside from the cost, financially and in time, I've saved by not needing a new one every year and a half, I have saved a huge amount of time in not having to reboot after a Windows crash. I'll be changing sometime this year, not because it is showing any sign of failure, but simply because I want to change before it does. I won't be looking at anything other than a Mac. I've no axe to grind for any brand, this is purely my experience.

kenmc

I've been Linux only, including work for ages, maybe 10, 12 years. Recently got taken over by a huge monolith: no support for Linux: take your pick between crapple or windoze. I picked crapple cos at least it has a half decent command line, which, as a developer I find is faaaar faster then gui for getting stuff done.

It's linuxish, but even over a year in, I'd much rather a 300 quid PC running Linux than whatever it is that the MacBook cost. For a start all the keyboard shortcuts are different, so you've got to relearn them.the upgrade from el captain to Sierra broke the screen lock : used be able to lock the screen using Ctrl-shift-eject (WTF?) Like could do Ctrl-l in windoze to lock the screen, a security requirement in our office, and common sense, this no longer works.

No DVD built in. Only 2 USB ports. The docking station is connected by a cable, not a normal dock; yet you can only run one monitor from the dock, so you need to plug the second monitor into the MacBook, as well as the power cable, so to undock you've to plug out 3 different cables, and then plug them in again to dock. Pita.

Constantly bombarded by pop-ups about new updates available for software packages.

Imo it's less bad than windoze,cos at least it has a working command line, but it doesn't come even close to Linux.

seachto7

It's really hard to decide what way to go. Those gaming machines are pricey too.

bonzodog2

Many 'PC' laptops don't have optical drives. You can get external USB ones though if thats essential for you.
A gaming laptop will tend to have a premium price, and probably in a year or two won't be good for the most recent games. Get one with a recent generation i5 with good onboard cache, and able to handle plenty of RAM.
Some laptops these days don't even have replaceable RAM; they don't want you to upgrade it!
Probably an SSD too

seachto7

I should highlight, I will be using it for music, not games. SSD yeah. THat's what I've been told.

KungPao

The software issue is what bugs me most. Right now I have loads of software on my laptop that's not available for Mac, at least without dicking around with emulators etc.

The different shortcuts and trackpad drive me bananas too.

I just feel so limited using a mac. Definitely more at home with Windows 7/10.

ScumLord

Gravelly wrote: »

I used to use top-end windows laptops - Toshiba, HP, Sony etc. I averaged 16-18 months per laptop before a major failure of some kind. 5 years ago, I changed to the then top-spec Mac Air. I still have it, and it has never once failed in any way.

Mac have great cases, I think most are metal and that makes a massive difference. Anything made from plastic is going to have issues eventually. But the internals are basically the exact same that you'll find in a PC.

seachto7 wrote: »

It's really hard to decide what way to go. Those gaming machines are pricey too.

Gaming is the most intensive thing you can do with a PC bar rendering elaborate 3D graphics or NASA stuff. Most applications use raw CPU power but gaming requires the graphics card which is basically a dedicated processor to render out 3D graphics on the fly.

If you want a gaming PC you should really be looking at a desktop though. It's way cheaper and you'll get much better hardware.

ScumLord

seachto7 wrote: »

I should highlight, I will be using it for music, not games. SSD yeah. THat's what I've been told.

SSD is the best upgrade out there at the moment. It will ruin your ability to use non SSD computers though, it makes traditional spinny disks seem like they're steam powered.

seachto7

Also, for the music, I use a scarlet focusrite, so use that as my soundcard.
I only record virtual keyboards, synths and drums, and have found on the old bog standard laltops, latency was a pain in the bum.
I could look at a semi decent laptop I guess, rather than going €1200...

ScumLord

seachto7 wrote: »

Also, for the music, I use a scarlet focusrite, so use that as my soundcard.
I only record virtual keyboards, synths and drums, and have found on the old bog standard laltops, latency was a pain in the bum.
I could look at a semi decent laptop I guess, rather than going €1200...

If your looking to record you'd probably be better off getting a break out box.

Some thing I have to ask everyone who asks about laptops is do you really need a laptop?

Once you start looking to do dedicated things like record sound, or edit photos, or play games, or edit video you would be way better off with a desktop. You'd be able to afford much better hardware, you'd have way more options for turning it into a professional level device, you can install dedicated hardware, extra hard drives and so on..

Laptops are cut down, over priced and limited PCs, you have way more options going desktop.

TimeToShine

Macs are superior in every way as a semi-casual laptop if you have the money to spare. No point dropping 2k on an MBP and then scraping pennies for 3 months - only buy what you can afford. Are they overpriced? Absolutely, but they last and have great resale value.

Mrs OBumble

The 1990s called. They want their argument back.

Earthhorse

I've never owned a laptop, only desktops, so can't comment on them specifically but I have been using the same iMac for the last 7 to 8 years and have only had to upgrade the RAM from 2GB to 8GB during that time. Whilst I would like a new machine there is honestly no compelling reason to upgrade; the boot up time and performance of the machine is still really great. I don't think I've ever seen a PC wear as good.

But there may be specific things you need or want to do that may sway your decision. If I were gaming heavily I'd definitely prefer a PC. When it comes to music recording I believe there is very little to choose between Windows and iOS these days.

Are Am Eye

I think, without a doubt, yes.

seachto7

I don't have the room for a PC. (Dublin living currently) which is another story!!

Earthhorse

I'm only making the point that if the build quality of desktops translates to laptops I'd have no problem recommending Apple.

Once you go Mac you'll never go back.

seachto7

I had a Mac desktop I bought used before and it was grand only I could only update the system so far, so some things I wanted to use with it weren't compatible.
I swapped for a windows desktop which had more power than I ever needed and served me well.
I gave it to the folks when I moved to capital city. It's about 5 years old at least.

Maybe I'm buying into the hype and feel I'd be missing out if i didn't get a Mac

Ann_Landers

Deleted User wrote: »

Apples break as well. You just don't hear people talking about it.

True, kinda like when gamblers only tell you about their wins, but never their losses.

CIP4

I have a windows work laptop and MacBook Air mid 2013 model for at home. I find the windows laptop grand for work. However I really like my Mac it's 4 years old now and still works perfectly has caused no issues. I find it nicer to use, shut downs and start ups are effortless and fast also even after all this time the battery life is great from a full battery you can work away all day on a single charge.

Are they worth the cost well for me yes as my one is still perfect after 4 years use and still has alot of life left in it I've never had a PC to age so well. But if you are not into them you are not going to spend the well over 1k on them.

mzungu

Prefer the Mac.

Venom

seachto7 wrote: »

It's really hard to decide what way to go. Those gaming machines are pricey too.

seachto7 wrote: »

I should highlight, I will be using it for music, not games. SSD yeah. THat's what I've been told.

Anything PC wise with "gaming" in the branding is just the PC version of the Apple tax.

Seeing as PC and Mac's are running on almost the exact same hardware these days, is there really still such differences in the software used for editing music, photos and video?

Ursus Horribilis

Decent laptops are getting pricey too, I've noticed. If I was buying for myself I'd go Windows. I just like that there's more software out there for it and I'm most familiar with it as an operating system. I also can't justify to myself the price of the Macbooks. They're lovely and everything but Christ, the price of them. I've never had any particular problems with windows anyway so I'd not move. But I'm talking all about me me me here, not you

Royale with Cheese

I bought a laptop recently for the exact same purpose, music production and browsing/general use. I went with the top spec macbook pro 13 because fúck it, I fancied splashing out. It's a very nice laptop but it's not worth the extra 1000+ I paid for it over a top spec Windows machine. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a lot of money to play with.

I've taken to MacOS fairly easily but to be honest I don't think it really does anything vastly better than windows, nothing I'm using it for anyway. That said I've Windows 10 running on it with bootcamp and very rarely find myself using it.

eeguy

I've never had a mac. Wouldn't mind one but most of the software I use is Windows only.

I have a work supplied fairly high end laptop and a MacBook Pro. The work laptop has better specs and is newer but is far slower and not even a patch on the Mac. The trackpad in particular is another's world, using the laptop is like having a boxing glove on compared to the Mac. Luckily work IT rules are fairly lax so I use my Mac for work a lot orb the time too, have it on the work network and have my files mapped to it etc.

Phonicks

For some people it easier to use something your used too

but for others its more exciting using something thst your not used too...as it fills your senses with different sights, sounds and feelings, making you excited, feel superior and even give you a mild "high".

This will make it depressing to go back to your previous machine or something similar

Hence posting "this is better" and "that is crappy" arguments, you just need to get out more and not worry about trying to convince people that your tat is the best tat

sozbox

Bought a MacBook Pro in 2010, the hard drive packed in 2014.

I called Apple asking them what to do, where I should bring it etc

They replaced the hard drive with one twice the storage and didn't charge me a cent. Still going strong today. Can't beat customer service like that in fairness.

diomed

Ann_Landers wrote: »

True, kinda like when gamblers only tell you about their wins, but never their losses.

I lost €400 on the last race at Royal Ascot recently, and have hundreds of stories like that.

Two PCs, one fast and the other one faster.
I've never been in Starbucks.

Ann_Landers

diomed wrote: »

I lost €400 on the last race at Royal Ascot recently, and have hundreds of stories like that.

You know what an analogy is, right? I was not making any comment on the gambling habits of Mac users.

Capt'n Midnight

Macs are PC's.

Either will run OSX or Windows or Linux or BSD or whatever you're having yourself , and thanks to Virtual Machines you can run all of them at the same time too


And it doesn't really matter unless you have a very , very specific need , like a fashion statement or bragging rights, because most of the time you'll looking at the interwebs or doing documents or consuming media.

Mr Chuckles

seachto7 wrote: »

Maybe this ain’t the right forum, but should be good for a laugh at the very least?

I’m in the market most likely for a laptop. A desktop wouldn’t be practical for me now.

Looking at a Macbook, but bloody hell, they seem, to me, to be way overpriced. I’d only be using it for general stuff and some music making, but nothing high powered. Demos using plugins etc.

Advice has been to look at a high spec Windows machine, like a gaming machine, which would have the power to service my needs, but from what I’ve seen, these can still be pricey enough.

The big question is, paying €1,200 for a Macbook and, say, €600 for a high spec Windows machine, which is going to last longer?

I’ve had laptops that have fried after a few years, so in the long run might have been better paying for a Mac, and it lasting for ages.

No CD/DVD drive is a let down for the Apples too.

And I won’t post the Snuff Box sketch either….

---

I'd recommend a convertible notebook, with Windows 10, such as the HP Spectre x360. Even when using it as a notebook, you can use the Touchscreen to move around, make text bigger You won't find that on any Apple product.

seachto7

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Macs are PC's.

Either will run OSX or Windows or Linux or BSD or whatever you're having yourself , and thanks to Virtual Machines you can run all of them at the same time too


And it doesn't really matter unless you have a very , very specific need , like a fashion statement or bragging rights, because most of the time you'll looking at the interwebs or doing documents or consuming media.

Main need, outside of interweb and word, excel etc, would be possibly accessing backends of websites to update meta data (if even), but also recording music.
Just home music stuff, so I'd be using VST plug ins and the likes. Nothing very heavy though.
Possibly a gaming PC would be too much for me, but your bog standard PC World one, would be too little for me. Somewhere in between possibly.
I was outside Compu B earlier and thought "nah f**k it"

deceit

deceit wrote: »

I use a Macbook in work and windows/Linux machines at home. I didn't have to worry about the cost so I choose the Macbook pro for work otherwise I would have chosen a Windows machine.

I would generally recommend users to purchase a windows laptop and save on the apple tax.
They are generally pretty similar in terms of reliability of the hardware and the OS (Osx and Apps seem to crash more for me on Mac but that could be work related more than anything else).

You will get inferior hardware in a nice shell with Apple laptops for twice the price of more powerful windows laptops.

Reasons I would pick a Mac:
Form was more important to you than function but if that's the case you can consider the LG gram Windows laptops or other high end laptops.

The track-pad and gestures are the best I've ever used on a portable device.

You want to use the Apple ecosystem for all of you data/entertainment etc.

You are more familiar with Unix like systems than Windows. (This is why I like it in work)

Very reply but I've had 2 Macbooks that were mostly great. They're a joy to use apart from the odd piece of specific software I've needed. You're right about the trackpads, they have that nailed.

At the moment, I have 4 Asus laptops for whatever reason and the build quality is around the same. You get a lot when you buy a decent Windows / Linux laptop compared to the mediocre stuff most buy.

As for OSs, I've used Mac, Windows and Linux extensively and would generally favor Windows. Windows is intuitive and is native for games, OSX is nice and friendly, and Linux is rewarding. Though I'm better at controlling a Linux server with a command line than I am at using it as a main OS.

And the notion that Macs are better for x, y and z is outdated. I can use all 24gigs of ram on my main laptop with a dev server, photoshop and indesign running while I jump into a session of the Witcher or some other serious game. Being able to do that is a big quality of life thing where I can work and take enjoyable breaks without closing everything and using Bootcamp.

CalamariFritti

Macs and MacOS are better than Windows laptops generally speaking, especially for the non expert user. They are easier to use, give less trouble and are a quality build. Windows is kinda messy and requires discipline from the user which Joe Soap never has. All friends and family laptops I get to see are usually infested to almost unusuable state with all sorts of crap including viruses and other malware.

Myself as a software developer I find Macs a much nicer and cleaner machine to work on.

Macs are better, but not much better. But they are much more expensive.
Does the much higher price stand in relation to how much better they are? No, clearly not. You could get a non Apple laptop with practically identical spec of a MacBook for half the price.

You could compare it to cars. You can buy a 30k Ford or VW that will get you around as quickly, reliably and everything else like a 60k Mercedes. No 'real' difference. The Ford can do everything the Merc can do or more. There'll still be people buying that 60k Merc tho. Because its nice.

DareGod

I used Windows for 20 years. Then I used a Mac for three years. (And no I never took it out in public or told anyone I had it.) There's no comparison. In spite of all the jokes and stereotypes, Macs just fking work. For the average user, there's none of the stalling or slowing down or all that bllsht that comes with Microsoft. Windows has had me infuriated beyond belief at times.

But you do pay for it. Windows you can get at up to a third of the price, but you get what you pay for. If that's all you need, then that's all you should get. If you've never found Windows devices to be infuriating, then don't waste your money on anything more expensive.

seachto7

CalamariFritti wrote: »

You could get a non Apple laptop with practically identical spec of a MacBook for half the price.

Out of curiosity, could you recommend a model? I'm still undecided. Leaning more towards a Mac based on a lot of the comments here...