Weird work situation

Beanie5

Hi Guys,

Just looking for some opinions on a situation on work, not sure if it's something to keep an eye on or I'm just being over sensitive!

So I started into a new job about 9months ago. For the first while I felt a bit sorry for my manager because nobody seemed to like him or socialise with him. He's always been a bit out there and informal but I never let it bother me as I thought people were being harsh with him.

The last couple of months I think I'm starting to see things in a new light though. There have always been comments that I thought were a bit inappropriate but I put them down to differences in sense of humour. So if I'm not constantly beaming I'm always being told not to scowl and that it doesn't cost extra. He also seems to have no concept of personal space. As in I'll be standing at a bench looking at a computer and he'll come up behind me and stand so close that his stomach is touching off me. He also seems to think tapping me on the shoulder every times he walks by is hilarious. As well as this he will listen in on work calls and interupt, read my text messages if my phone is faving up, and read my emails if I'm at my desk and he comes up behind me. I have also mentioned to him in a passing way that I do like personal space and I'm not really a touchy feely person. This just seems to have made things worse.

So I was a bit uncomfortable anyway, and then in a career development meeting last month he told me seeing as I'm engaged and want kids (he walked into the office another day and asked me did I plan on having kids randomly) that I'm going to limit my own career. And depending on how many I have that will also impact/limit my career. I was so shocked I didn't even know what to say. At which point he said "shall I pass you the razor blade now". He then asked me did I regret leaving my previous position for this one, and I was honest and said yes that sometimes I do. He then told me that he would have no problem being a reference for any of the team (he said this with another colleague present) but that we would need to remember that he would tell the whole truth, and that each of us comes with our own advantages and disadvantages.

Two weeks ago I was going on a business trip and he decided he also wanted to go. He decided that he didn't want to fly though, so wanted to collect me and drive through the night to Manchester and straight into the meeting. I said I wouldn't be comfortable with it and would much rather fly so be decided he wouldn't bother going and was a bit put out with me.

He also continuously tries to bitch about my team mates to me, which I have no interest in doing. I'm getting better at deflecting it and changing subject, but it's just awkward at this stage.

These are the main things that come to mind. I think I just need someone outside the situation to sanity check me!

Thanks 😊

LostHiigaran

Sounds like a creepy but lonely manager.

Tiddlypeeps

Beanie5 wrote: »

So I was a bit uncomfortable anyway, and then in a career development meeting last month he told me seeing as I'm engaged and want kids (he walked into the office another day and asked me did I plan on having kids randomly) that I'm going to limit my own career. And depending on how many I have that will also impact/limit my career. I was so shocked I didn't even know what to say. At which point he said "shall I pass you the razor blade now". He then asked me did I regret leaving my previous position for this one, and I was honest and said yes that sometimes I do. He then told me that he would have no problem being a reference for any of the team (he said this with another colleague present) but that we would need to remember that he would tell the whole truth, and that each of us comes with our own advantages and disadvantages.

Holy ****. That is so far beyond inappropriate.

Is there anyone above him you can report this to or any sort of HR you can talk to?

Driver2016

I agree with the above Sounds like a creep go above him and report it don't allow him to treat you that way

Wanderer2010

No wonder nobody likes him, but its worrying that hes still in his job. He should have been sacked years ago if he behaves even half as bad to others as he has to you. Is his boss shielding him? Spineless HR? You have to be direct with him next time he creeps you out. Say to him in private that you don't appreciate his behaviour and that you want it to stop. If it doesn't, can you chat to a union rep?

Tails142

Are you male/female? If female the touching etc is totally inappropriate... it is probably is even if you're a male!!

Beanie5

Thanks for all the feedback/advice! I'm a female, he does it mainly to me but also to another female colleague. Not so much to the guys.

He's actually only been in the job about a year himself, so I don't think it's a case of his manager shielding him. In fact I know for a fact he's been reported to hr multiple times and his manager has pulled him up on it because he's told me himself. I think he's gotten so use to his boss taking to him about appropriate/inappropriate behaviour though, that's it's lost it's affect. The hr department themselves really don't seem to do much.

I would have agreed with the creepy but lonely comment before, but the last couple of months it has taken on quite a nasty undertone. I actually started a log of inappropriate behaviour and comments about a month ago just in case I ever need it. And I'm not the only one on the team doing it either.

It's gotten to the point where I dread one to one meetings, or when I'm left alone in the office with him. And I know he has definitely noted a change in my behaviour too as he has said it to me. It's not that I'm being nasty or anything, I just don't chat as openly or as much anymore because I don't feel comfortable. I prefer to keep some kind of boundary. He now keeps asking what's wrong with me, telling me I'm very quiet.

I'm just a bit afraid if I go to hr they'll do nothing but make it worse. I know he doesn't get on with one of the guys on the team, and I was only in the door about three months and he pulled me into a one to one and asked me if I'd mind reporting him to hr. I refused because this guy had never done anything to me, I did think it was weird at the time though. And I don't want to leave because I'm only there 9months and I'm afraid it'll look awful on my cv.

antoinolachtnai

Does this person have some special technical or other skill that makes him especially valuable to the company?

nikkibikki

The comment about you having kids in the future limiting your career, that could be seen as a threat in a way. It would be discriminatory for a woman to be limited by her employer.

You also say you are anxious (can't remember the exact word you used) about being left alone in the office with him. That's fairly serious IMO. This guy needs to b reported to HR.

judeboy101

you need to take a leaf out of the Garda mccabe handbook, start recording these comments, plenty of phone apps that can do this discreetly

Beanie5

I think that it took the company quite a while to fill the position, which is probably why he's let away with so much to be honest. I don't know how seriously hr are taken there. He's been reported at least twice that I know of and it seems to have made no difference in his attitude. I actually think the more he settles in the worse he gets.

bobsman

Jesus, this guy is a manager??? OP, keep a record of everything. He is behaving completely inappropriately but you know this.

The business trip is very odd..almost scary

Beanie5

Hi bobsman, yep he's a manager. I'm actually surprised he is lasting this long as his direct manager, and the manager that don't particularly like him - mainly due to inappropriate jokes. The thing is I'm not even the person who gets the worst of it. I've seen much worse behaviour broadening on bullying towards one of my colleagues. I know that we are all keeping logs at this point, I don't know how seriously that would be taken though? I find he usually gets me on my own before saying anything really bad.

The business trip was very strange alright. I really had to put my foot down. The only reason I got out of it in the end was because I said I get violently sea sick so I just wouldn't be able to go. The flights got booked then and he decided he wouldn't bother coming.

ibarelycare

OP you need to speak to HR. You have no other options unless you go to them first.

Lux23

OP, I would immediately talk to HR and say that he is touching you and invading your personal space. No doubt they already know what he is up to and I would be really worried about why he wanted you in a car for that amount of time.

Beanie5

Hi All,

Sorry for dragging up a thread that's a few weeks old. I decided to take everyone's advice and report this individual to HR. However tomorrow the process of dealing with the complaint is due to start and I'm feeling very anxious at the moment!!

Has anyone been through a process like this before? Or have any advice on handling it?

Thanks!!!

TG1

Beanie5 wrote: »

Hi All,

Sorry for dragging up a thread that's a few weeks old. I decided to take everyone's advice and report this individual to HR. However tomorrow the process of dealing with the complaint is due to start and I'm feeling very anxious at the moment!!

Has anyone been through a process like this before? Or have any advice on handling it?

Thanks!!!

Never been through it from your side, but I've been involved in processes like this a few times.

The only advice I can give you is keep calm, have all your facts ready, dates times etc. If you have any written documentation of anything know it inside out and back to front.

Remember the investigation is to find the facts, so stick to them. Unfortunately while the emotion is understandable and totally relevant, an impartial investigator, be it another manager or HR can't make a decision based on how you felt, they can only base it on facts, what did and didn't happen, and what should or shouldn't have happened.

Also, just remember that an investigation is just that, no one is out to demonise you or the manager. They are just there to determine what happened in the early stages.

Best of luck with it.

limnam

I think I know him



:pac:

In all seriousness though.

I hope the HR side of it goes ok. As mentioned try not to get too emotional it's difficult but he might have experience with these situations and be planning on portraying you in a specific light so say stay calm and present the facts as best you can.

Good luck!

pilly

Try not to stress too much, stick to the facts as others have said.

You've done the right thing by going to HR.

beauf

Sounds like very odd behaviour. You are right to be concerned about it.

conspiracycat

How did it go for you OP!?

Beanie5

Hi conspiracycat, it's still not totally sorted out unfortunately! I know the HR department have spoken to the person involved, but nothing as actually changed in my day to day as of yet.

Gravelly

Jaysus - I'd be the first to say that I think some people are overly sensitive these days, but this guy sounds like a right piece of work. I've gotten rid of line managers for a lot less. Standing so close he is touching off you is way out of bounds, and that's before the bitching about other staff, and the whole Manchester trip thing. I can tell you right now that if one of my staff came to me with these accusations about a manager I would be taking them very, very seriously - I can't see how any company would tolerate this. My advice is go to his immediate supervisor. Have a written list of the incidents you've laid out here, and calmly list them. Try to keep personal attacks out of it (as much as he might deserve it!) and make sure notes are taken. I'd have this guy out the door, and so would any other senior member of management I know.

pyramuid man

Having read this thread, I was wondering what the situation is regarding the seriousness that management / HR are dealing with what are very serious allegations / complaints.

Is it the case that if HR / Management are not acting on the complaints in an appropriate manner, they are being negligent and possibly allowing this situation to continue?

amtc

I'm female and am friendly with a girl (34) who was the subject of unwanted attention from a colleague (44) She had to work late to take calls from the us, and he used to pop back into the office after a few drinks. She confided in me and I said it to our boss (40). He said it to the guy who responded by bringing in flowers. Not once but every day. The issue was he was HR! Hr director even said she should take as compliment. Our boss didn't take it seriously until he told his wife, who told him this was harassment.

What ended up happening was mediation. Hr guy managed out and my friend left. Senior public service job too.

Manage yoyr way out

Bronco Bullfrog

Don't worry about how your CV looks and the length of time you spend at a company. No one knows what their in for when they join a firm. Don't live your life through your CV or base your worth around the contents of your CV. I know that's easy to say, but it's a mistake I made in the past. There is the saying that 'People don't leave jobs, they leave managers', that is true. Get away from the creep if you can. I would recommend a small USB voice recorder available online from Amazon for about £10 sterling. Any meetings switch it on and record, it's only the size of a memory stick. Very discreet, much smaller than using your mobile phone, if you ever need to escalate the situation you will have proof.

confusedlady01

Jesus. I was more or less forced out of a job a couple of years ago because of a similar issue (amongst a myriad of other issues) with a team leader.

This guy was a super creep, he used to be way too touchy feely and was always calling me into private meetings because he 'needed a chat', it never had anything to do with work. He had no sense of personal space or professionalism and acted like a Dunnes Stores manager even though this was an office for a large pharma multinational and he had no formal hierarchy over anyone. He sat opposite to me in the office, there was only a low partition between the desks and I'd catch him staring at me constantly, winking, waving, mouthing things to me when I had headphones in...he would then send me inappropriate instant message every 15 mins and if I ignored him he'd get cranky and arrive up behind me at my desk to ask me why I was 'so moody'...

It got really bad at one stage, he kept hassling me to take a lift home with him (we lived at opposite ends of the city) and he used to actually drive by the bus stop and catch me out if I lied and told him my boyfriend was collecting me. His behavior got worse and then when I was clearly having none of it and was very blunt with him that he was disrupting my working day..he started to be nasty and tryed to get me into trouble at work.

The whole time this was going on, everyone could see (open plan office), including my manager and several more senior heads, none of them did or said anything. We actually had no HR, only an online system for logging issues to some team in the US (in a huge company!). I delicately broached the matter with my manager but he was absolutely useless and just fobbed me off.

Finally, yerman was let go on the week his probation was due to be over, this was unusual and no doubt had something to do with his actions towards me, but they told him it was performance based (he wasn't that bad at his actual job). I was relieved but in a twisted way I felt guilty and was ashamed even though I never did anything to deserve this attention. The damage was done though, it was an absolutely awful place to work but adding harassment to the list was the final straw for me. I ended up leaving a couple of months later, something I'm still not sure was a good idea as I have no decent way of explaining the gap in my CV or my reason for leaving.

If you want my advice, record all correspondence with him, record conversations on your phone and log everything in a diary. Cooperate with HR and hope that resolves the issue but it if doesn't, break out all your evidence and fight it, legally if you have to. Don't be bullied out or have your reputation tarnished by this fool.

Best of luck OP and if you ever need a sympathetic ear, feel free to PM me.

Beanie5

Thanks Confusedlady01. Sounds like you had an awful time of it! Did management ever comment on it after he left?

I'm in the middle of the process now, but it's moving very slowly. And in the meantime I'm being left in the situation. To make it worse my supervisor has copped there's something wrong with me. I suppose my behaviour towards him has changed due to everything.

Last week he cornered me on my own in the coffee room and demanded to know what my problem was. When I said nothing, he just kept pushing and saying he knew that I was uncomfortable around him and he wanted to know why, that I was being difficult (because I challenged him on something in a meeting). I'm not going to lie, I panicked. I literally started shaking all over, thought I was going to faint/cry, heart went crazy and I couldn't breathe. I just had to say "I think this is inappropriate" and basically run out of the room. It's been very awkward since cos I still had to face in again after.

Seriously considering giving in my notice at this point. It's actually affecting my work now because I'm so nervous and jumpy all the time. Did you regret leaving in the end?

Lux23

I think you should tell HR what happened and that they either need to speed up the process or your taking paid stress leave. This man could be dangerous.

pilly

Beanie, I would be going to the doctor if I were you, get a note saying that you can not work due to work related stresses and go back into your HR department and say that you expect to be paid whilst you're out because the issues are being caused by the job.

They have to take their time with these matters, that's understandable but at the same time they have a duty to protect you from feeling uncomfortable. He should have been told not to speak to you at all unless it was hello or goodbye.

I wouldn't be giving in my notice if I were you, it will be a gap on your CV that's difficult to explain.

Squatter

If you haven't already, I suggest that you read this:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/harassment_at_work.html

In a stressful workplace situation, it's always reassuring to know your rights.

Beanie5

Hi Guys,

Thanks a million for all the support and advice, it's definitely helped a lot!

As regards taking stress leave, I'm hoping to avoid it. I don't want to feel like I'm being driven out of the company by a bully.

I've been quite vocal on how I feel about working with this person though. I just hope something is done and this doesn't end up affecting my career negatively.

Beanie5

Hi Guys,

Sorry for bringing an old thread up again, but this whole case is finally coming to an end for me. Last week the person in question was found guilty of harassment, sexual harassment and bullying. While I'm very relieved, I have absolutely no idea what to expect next...anyone ever had this before?

Squatman

Beanie5 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Sorry for bringing an old thread up again, but this whole case is finally coming to an end for me. Last week the person in question was found guilty of harassment, sexual harassment and bullying. While I'm very relieved, I have absolutely no idea what to expect next...anyone ever had this before?

Well done Beanie. and thanks a million for the update:D onwards and upwards

AndrewJRenko

Beanie5 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Sorry for bringing an old thread up again, but this whole case is finally coming to an end for me. Last week the person in question was found guilty of harassment, sexual harassment and bullying. While I'm very relieved, I have absolutely no idea what to expect next...anyone ever had this before?

'Guilty' by your HR people or guilty in Court?

Beanie5

By the Hr investigative team who were to be impartial

9or10

Beanie glad its worked OK forya.

Thanks for updating the thread.

All the very best

monkeysnapper

Wow.

Just read all this, I'm really chuffed it went this way for you , this guy is vermin and should be put out the door.

I was very relieved when I read bit about him wanting you to drive to meeting . I feel you could have put yourself at danger .

Well done you

Suzyq

Awful story, I’m glad that it’s been resolved for you.

TallGlass

Beanie5 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Sorry for bringing an old thread up again, but this whole case is finally coming to an end for me. Last week the person in question was found guilty of harassment, sexual harassment and bullying. While I'm very relieved, I have absolutely no idea what to expect next...anyone ever had this before?

Can't say I have any experience, but each of them topics on there own are at least serious gross misconduct and at worst for the employer could warrant some a court case if you pushed for it.

I'd imagine he will be suspended and eventually let go. In fact the seriousness of them three topics, could just warrant him getting out right let go on the spot.

What a pheking weirdo, had to say it, but I hope he is out of the workplace for a long time!

bobsman

I remember this thread. What an absolute sleazeball. Am so glad he is getting his comeuppance OP. Hope you are ok x

Jimbob1977

Is he getting sacked for gross misconduct?

If he stays on, it would be an awful environment

spaceHopper

Have you asked HR what is going to happen, or at least a time frame for when this will be closed?

If you work in the private sector I expect he will be fired. If it's a college or public sector they may let him keep his Job and give him a written warning which could only last six months.

Have you spoken to a solicitor. If they don't fire him and you have to report to him still I'd go to an solisotor with a view to going to an employment tribunal for mediation, make it clear you don't feel safe around him and they have a duty of care towards you. If you think they are not going to fire him then go to a solicitor now as you may be able to force the issue.

Beanie5

Hi everyone,

Thanks a million for all the positive messages and support!!

So it hasn't officially gone to the hr department here yet, so no decision. That's kind of what I'm wondering? It's private sector so they would hardly keep him on would they?