Schools Rugby 2017 2018 Thread SEE MOD WARNING POST #1773

D14Rugby

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Its ok in eyes of IRFU for under 16s within schools rugby to play under 19 competitions but any under 16 playing under 18 club rugby has to jump through a load of hoops and an under 16 would never be allowed play anything like under 18.5 or under 19 rugby.
IRFU state its about player welfare but its ok within schools rugby. Theres the double standards

Care to expand on that?

Well I'd guess the difference is that its all down to what youre used to as the jump for a young fourth year is the same as for an old fourth year so unless you ban all 4th years from sct (which you cant btw before you suggest it) you dont really need to not let them play

irishfan9

MDunne14 wrote: »

Ryan Baird is u19 , played leinster 19s and is on the Irish u19 traininh says for not over midterm

Yes, but I've been told he is playing a year up and is actually under-18, could be wrong though.

D14Rugby

irishfan9 wrote: »

Yes, but I've been told he is playing a year up and is actually under-18, could be wrong though.

Yeah he's still u18. Itll be interesting to see what team hes on next year u19 or 20s/dev

irishfan9

D14Rugby wrote: »

Yeah he's still u18. Itll be interesting to see what team hes on next year u19 or 20s/dev

He will be out of school, almost certain to be u20/dev along with Charlie Ryan.

I've been told he would be in James Ryan's category if he had the same size.

Not sure how tall he is, looks between 6'5 and 6'6.

Only other recent player to skip 2nd year at u18 level and play leinster u19 was Jack Aungier.

Gavin4

A couple of starters for the under 19's are still in school and may make an impression - Ruairi Shields ( St Mary's) and Brian O'Donnell ( Gonzaga) might impress also.

As regards JCT I believe all 3rd years are available obviously but 4th years are not available if they have sat the Junior Cert unless their birthdays are after July 1 ( ir younger 4th years only)

The Lost Sheep

FrannoFan wrote: »

Yea. You have to be exceptionally young to qualify. Like a 4th year younger than a lot of third years in the same school. Strange but it is down to leinster branch wanting to keep it as a 3rd year competition instead of an under 16 competition

There is a huge number of third years who are under 15s ie for this season will turn 15 in 2018. Being an under 16 in fourth year is not that irregular and stopping them playing junior schools rugby is unfair as they'll now have to play under 19 if not playing in transition year competition which is potentially dangerous and against IRFU player welfare guidelines about kids playing above their own age group

D14Rugby wrote: »

Yeah i was unsure if they actually implemented it or not, apparently not. But i do think that there is a different cutoff for u16 in 4th year so while a fourth year might be u16 as far as playing schools rugby is concerned theyre u17 unless theyre exceptionally young

Are you sure about that? All rugby in schools is played off January 1st dates so senior schools this season is 1/1/99 and junior schools is 1/1/02.

D14Rugby wrote: »

Well I'd guess the difference is that its all down to what youre used to as the jump for a young fourth year is the same as for an old fourth year so unless you ban all 4th years from sct (which you cant btw before you suggest it) you dont really need to not let them play

Its just hypocrisy from the IRFU and is potentially dangerous letting under 16s play against kids 3 full years older. Any under 16s should be playing at max against under 18s and then only in exceptional circumstances with letter of permission from kids parents.

FellasFellas

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Its just hypocrisy from the IRFU and is potentially dangerous letting under 16s play against kids 3 full years older. Any under 16s should be playing at max against under 18s and then only in exceptional circumstances with letter of permission from kids parents.

I really am lost for words tbh.

irishbucsfan

That's actually why James Ryan didn't play for Leinster last season, lost his letter of permission from his parents.

The Lost Sheep

FellasFellas wrote: »

I really am lost for words tbh.

Care to explain?
You dont see the double standards from IRFU? Under 16s can play under 19 in schools rugby with no issues but under 16s have to jump through hoops to even think about playing under 18 in youths rugby

The Lost Sheep

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's actually why James Ryan didn't play for Leinster last season, lost his letter of permission from his parents.

Very funny. Dint you see the unfair differences in regulations between clubs and schools. Why are they different? You either as an under 14 cant play under 16 ie a first year cant play junior schools cup or under 17 not play schools senior cup or any under 14 youths player can play 16s and any under 16 youths player can play under 18.
Why are schools players treated preferentially over youths players in the regulations?

FrannoFan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Care to explain?
You dont see the double standards from IRFU? Under 16s can play under 19 in schools rugby with no issues but under 16s have to jump through hoops to even think about playing under 18 in youths rugby

Maybe schools are trusted to make more sound judgements on the wellbeing of their students than clubs are?

The Lost Sheep

FrannoFan wrote: »

Maybe schools are trusted to make more sound judgements on the wellbeing of their students than clubs are?

Why should they be? Thats a load of b*****x that schools and coaches in them could make more sound judgement than coaches in a club

FrannoFan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There is a huge number of third years who are under 15s ie for this season will turn 15 in 2018. Being an under 16 in fourth year is not that irregular and stopping them playing junior schools rugby is unfair as they'll now have to play under 19 if not playing in transition year competition which is potentially dangerous and against IRFU player welfare guidelines about kids playing above their own age group

I didn't decide it!
Munster and ulster use under 16 as an age grade and mimic clubs structure in school. Result is a 2nd year team plays an under 15 team which can have a lot of third years when schools from different provinces meet. Creates an unfair advantage and is dangerous but this is what leinster have decided.

FrannoFan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why should they be? Thats a load of b*****x that schools and coaches in them could make more sound judgement than coaches in a club

Justin offering a suggestion. You care to differ that's fine

Ally Bren 92

Sam Sardis played senior cup first round age 15,he didn’t play Michaels in 4th year cuz he had pain in hamstring in warmup,and didn’t wanna risk it for Irish camp

1bluewombat

Pres Bray have 3 x 4th years in their SCT team. 2 of which are second half 2001, does this mean they could play JCT this year?

irishfan9

Ally Bren 92 wrote: »

Sam Sardis played senior cup first round age 15,he didn’t play Michaels in 4th year cuz he had pain in hamstring in warmup,and didn’t wanna risk it for Irish camp

Sam Dardis? Yeah I mentioned him, played SCT in 4th year as a u16 and made Ireland u18 squad.

It's rare that an u16 starts but its not unheard of - Dardis, Doris, Baird being 3.

irishfan9

1bluewombat wrote: »

Pres Bray have 3 x 4th years in their SCT team. 2 of which are second half 2001, does this mean they could play JCT this year?

whats their names?

Pres have really turned it around in recent years, which is great to see.

1bluewombat

These are 2001's
Ben Murphy, scrum half
Sam ODowed, full back
Josh Pyper, wing

Also another sub scrum half, don't know his name

irishfan9

1bluewombat wrote: »

These are 2001's
Ben Murphy, scrum half
Sam ODowed, full back
Josh Pyper, wing

Also another sub scrum half, don't know his name

Oh sorry they are under-17.

1999 - u19
2000 - u18
2001 - u17
2002 - u16

So you could be born early 2002, be in 4th year and be playing SCT.

Never realized Murphy was playing Leinster u18, a year young, be interested to see if he makes ireland u18 this year.

1bluewombat

yes, he is an exceptional distributor, its great to see players from the smaller rugby schools making rep sides.

General thinking would be that you need to attend one of the big schools to get recognised and develop. But it gives comfort to others that they dont need to move school.

irishfan9

1bluewombat wrote: »

yes, he is an exceptional distributor, its great to see players from the smaller rugby schools making rep sides.

General thinking would be that you need to attend one of the big schools to get recognised and develop. But it gives comfort to others that they dont need to move school.

O'Gara and him starting for schools was good to see.

D14Rugby

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There is a huge number of third years who are under 15s ie for this season will turn 15 in 2018. Being an under 16 in fourth year is not that irregular and stopping them playing junior schools rugby is unfair as they'll now have to play under 19 if not playing in transition year competition which is potentially dangerous and against IRFU player welfare guidelines about kids playing above their own age group

Are you sure about that? All rugby in schools is played off January 1st dates so senior schools this season is 1/1/99 and junior schools is 1/1/02.

Its just hypocrisy from the IRFU and is potentially dangerous letting under 16s play against kids 3 full years older. Any under 16s should be playing at max against under 18s and then only in exceptional circumstances with letter of permission from kids parents.

Yeah its july to be u16 (junior cup eligible) if youve sat the junior cert.
Its not age thats the problem its being used to the intensity so young fourth years are just in the same position as the other fourth years. Players who don't feel ready for the step can and have taken a step back for a year or be held back by coaches and just play seconds or ty or whatever level for the year, players who have technically been good enough but maybe a big on the small side have done this every year so there is thought put into who does and doesn't play senior rugby.

Ayewserious

irishfan9 wrote: »

I think Ryan Baird started for Michaels as a u16 too. Not 100% sure.

Boyle & Barron are huge for players still eligible for JCT rugby.

Could see Boyle moving to 8 and Barron to 1 next season, but both there long term futures being at in the positions they are playing now.

Barron is 100 % u16 I think Boyle is too although I'm not certain

Ayewserious

Both born early 2002

irishfan9

Ayewserious wrote: »

Both born early 2002

Both u16 then.

The Lost Sheep

FrannoFan wrote: »

I didn't decide it!
Munster and ulster use under 16 as an age grade and mimic clubs structure in school. Result is a 2nd year team plays an under 15 team which can have a lot of third years when schools from different provinces meet. Creates an unfair advantage and is dangerous but this is what leinster have decided.

[/QUOTE]All provinces use under 16 as an age group.
Junior schools is under 16. Senior schools is under 19. Both January 1st cut offs.
This season junior schools is 1/1/02 and senior is 1/1/99
Munster, Leinster, Connacht under 18 clubs is 1/7/99 and then Connacht and Leinster have under 17 at 1/1/01 and then each age group to under 13 while Munster go under 16 at 1/1/02 and each age group to under 13

D14Rugby wrote: »

Yeah its july to be u16 (junior cup eligible) if youve sat the junior cert.
Its not age thats the problem its being used to the intensity so young fourth years are just in the same position as the other fourth years. Players who don't feel ready for the step can and have taken a step back for a year or be held back by coaches and just play seconds or ty or whatever level for the year, players who have technically been good enough but maybe a big on the small side have done this every year so there is thought put into who does and doesn't play senior rugby.

It shouldnt really. Anyone eligible for under 16 should be allowed play junior schools even if in senior cycle but there needs to be a lower limit for junior and senior schools. No under 14s should be allowed play under 16s(JCT) and possibly no 17s play senior
Playing seconds is still under 19 rugby and shouldnt be allowed. If quite young in transition or fifth year there should be age graded teams at under 17 and under 18 to play on not simply 2nds/3rds/4ths etc

irishfan9

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It shouldnt really. Anyone eligible for under 16 should be allowed play junior schools even if in senior cycle but there needs to be a lower limit for junior and senior schools. No under 14s should be allowed play under 16s(JCT) and possibly no 17s play senior
Playing seconds is still under 19 rugby and shouldnt be allowed. If quite young in transition or fifth year there should be age graded teams at under 17 and under 18 to play on not simply 2nds/3rds/4ths etc

why?

The Lost Sheep

irishfan9 wrote:

why?

why do you think. Player safety. Player welfare etc etc

FellasFellas

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

why do you think. Player safety. Player welfare etc etc

You think tag is better than 7's, you don't want young 4th years playing Senior Cup; why are you obsessed with cotton wooling the sport?

The Lost Sheep

FellasFellas wrote:

You think tag is better than 7's, you don't want young 4th years playing Senior Cup; why are you obsessed with cotton wooling the sport?

I'm far from cottoneolling the sport. It's complete hypocrisy from irfu and player safety which they state is so important that any kid in a rugby school as an under 16 or under 17 can play under 19 yet same players in youths system can't(for good reason)
At max kids should be playing with kids 1/2 years older.
With kids in fourth year who are young for their year in this school year they could face kids who are over 2 years older than them
That isn't at all cotton willing the sport and you saying that says a lot about your disregard for safety of people playing the sport.
Tag is also far better for developing and widening the base of the sport than 7s ever will be.

FellasFellas

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I'm far from cottoneolling the sport. It's complete hypocrisy from irfu and player safety which they state is so important that any kid in a rugby school as an under 16 or under 17 can play under 19 yet same players in youths system can't(for good reason)
At max kids should be playing with kids 1/2 years older.
With kids in fourth year who are young for their year in this school year they could face kids who are over 2 years older than them
That isn't at all cotton willing the sport and you saying that says a lot about your disregard for safety of people playing the sport.
Tag is also far better for developing and widening the base of the sport than 7s ever will be.

What does tag do exactly? Provide a bit of a run around for the Big 4 on Thursday nights in Templeville Road before they go to Diceys? You can widen the base of the sport all you like but that's not boosting the numbers of people playing 15's whatsoever, as the crowd of people that play tag that I know anyway are either incredibly social tag players or die hard tag players. Neither of those groups contribute to 15's. Tag whether you like it or not; which I know you don't, is a social thing; and if you push kids towards tag, they're more likely to resent contact. 7's/10's are so much better at mini rugby and at 1st year school level before letting them play 15's. Set up a Tag Rugby Thread and just post in there to yourself about the latest revolutionary belt they've made and let us talk about schools rugby.

If you're good enough, you're old enough in terms of Senior Rugby in school. Every single school has some 4th years involved in the panel in some shape or form. Some of them might not see pitch time but they're involved which further develops them for their 5th and 6th years in school. Your hard done by attitude towards clubs is wearing thin considering there are far more clubs based players getting into pro systems in Ireland lately due to the good work of these clubs and the IRFU. You should write a strongly worded letter to the IRFU about their clubs v schools debate; should make good kindle for Phil Orr's fire this Christmas.

The Lost Sheep

FellasFellas wrote: »

What does tag do exactly? Provide a bit of a run around for the Big 4 on Thursday nights in Templeville Road before they go to Diceys? You can widen the base of the sport all you like but that's not boosting the numbers of people playing 15's whatsoever, as the crowd of people that play tag that I know anyway are either incredibly social tag players or die hard tag players. Neither of those groups contribute to 15's. Tag whether you like it or not; which I know you don't, is a social thing; and if you push kids towards tag, they're more likely to resent contact. 7's/10's are so much better at mini rugby and at 1st year school level before letting them play 15's. Set up a Tag Rugby Thread and just post in there to yourself about the latest revolutionary belt they've made and let us talk about schools rugby.

If you're good enough, you're old enough in terms of Senior Rugby in school. Every single school has some 4th years involved in the panel in some shape or form. Some of them might not see pitch time but they're involved which further develops them for their 5th and 6th years in school. Your hard done by attitude towards clubs is wearing thin considering there are far more clubs based players getting into pro systems in Ireland lately due to the good work of these clubs and the IRFU. You should write a strongly worded letter to the IRFU about their clubs v schools debate; should make good kindle for Phil Orr's fire this Christmas.

How childish a post.
And you only have to look at Limerick/Munster about the clubs v schools debate. And the media coverage of that
If good enough your old enough isnt an excuse.
Why then does IRFU not allow under 18s play adult rugby then with that line of thinking?
And the numbers playing tag has most certainly helped slightly with numbers playing union. It has got people into clubs who otherwise would never have and then got people back playing union or to play it for the first time.
Do you have anything that proves kids will "resent" contact if you push tag first at them?
IRFU must have it totally wrong then with their development officers going to schools with tag rugby and the numbers then entering clubs to play full contact after experiencing the sport through tag first.

irishfan9

Michaels JCT lost 5 - 41 to CBC Cork

FellasFellas

Michaels JCT very up and down, big number 8 is their best player but doesn't seem like a very consistent side. They beat Rock but then lost to Belvo and now Cork; having only just beaten Gonzaga previously. Are they using a big squad or is it just a weaker year than we've come to expect from Michaels?

irishfan9

FellasFellas wrote: »

Michaels JCT very up and down, big number 8 is their best player but doesn't seem like a very consistent side. They beat Rock but then lost to Belvo and now Cork; having only just beaten Gonzaga previously. Are they using a big squad or is it just a weaker year than we've come to expect from Michaels?

relying on a lot of 2nd years and have rotated a lot of players in recent games, example said number 8, JJ Hession, wasn't playing against CBC afaik.

they were unbeaten until Belvo, now lost their second game.. They will compete for JCT but too many 2nd years to win it.

irishfan9

Hayden Hyde and Joshua Dunne, two exiles at Ireland u18 camp this week.

Ruggerhead

irishfan9 wrote: »

relying on a lot of 2nd years and have rotated a lot of players in recent games, example said number 8, JJ Hession, wasn't playing against CBC afaik.

they were unbeaten until Belvo, now lost their second game.. They will compete for JCT but too many 2nd years to win it.

They mixed a lot of JCT players and 2nd team players together for the last couple of matches. Probably a case on not wanting to show their hand to early before the Junior Cup.

irishfan9

Ruggerhead wrote: »

They mixed a lot of JCT players and 2nd team players together for the last couple of matches. Probably a case on not wanting to show their hand to early before the Junior Cup.

it's underage rugby and they are friendlies, should give as many players a chance as possible.

The Lost Sheep

Ruggerhead wrote:

They mixed a lot of JCT players and 2nd team players together for the last couple of matches. Probably a case on not wanting to show their hand to early before the Junior Cup.

more they only play at max 4 games within a competition a year so want to look as many players as possible for those games. Nothing to do with not showing their hand

irishfan9

Blackrock SCT results this season:

Lost 28-24 to Leinster Youths
Won 42-0 against Kilkenny College
Lost 13-12 to Gonzaga College
Won 29-13 against Palmerstown North
Won 38-12 against Campbell College
Won 22-10 against Terenure College
Won 22-18 against PBC Cork

Upcoming games:
Wellington College - 4th Nov
RBAI - 11th Nov
St. Michaels - 18th Nov
Belvedere - 25th Nov
Crescent - 2nd Dec
Clongowes - 9th Dec
Ballymena - 16th Dec
Munchins - 28th Dec
CBC Cork - 6th Jan
Methody - 13th Jan

Ayewserious

irishfan9 wrote: »

Blackrock SCT results this season:

Lost 28-24 to Leinster Youths
Won 42-0 against Kilkenny College
Lost 13-12 to Gonzaga College
Won 29-13 against Palmerstown North
Won 38-12 against Campbell College
Won 22-10 against Terenure College
Won 22-18 against PBC Cork

Upcoming games:
Wellington College - 4th Nov
RBAI - 11th Nov
St. Michaels - 18th Nov
Belvedere - 25th Nov
Crescent - 2nd Dec
Clongowes - 9th Dec
Ballymena - 16th Dec
Munchins - 28th Dec
CBC Cork - 6th Jan
Methody - 13th Jan

Any idea of the most recent staring 15?

irishfan9

Ayewserious wrote: »

Any idea of the most recent staring 15?

Nope.

The Lost Sheep

Crescent and Castletroy played in comp this morning. Crescent won by 50 points or so. Castletroy very poor. With change if Bowen shield to 18s castletroy don't have enough numbers to field both sct and Bowen shield at same time. Interesting to note that

irishfan9

Ben Roche(2nd Row) named CBC cork captain.

irishfan9

anyone have any idea on what Belvedere's lineup will look like this year?

irishfan9

St. Michaels have produced at least 1 pro rugby player in each class through it's school since 2010.

2010
Cathal Marsh(Outhalf)
2011
Luke McGrath(Scrumhalf)
2012
Dan Leavy(Backrow)
Rory O'Loughlin(Centre-Wing)
2013
Denis Coulson(LH Prop)
Ross Molony(2nd Row)
Josh Murphy(Backrow)
Nick McCarthy(Scrumhalf)
Ross Byrne(Outhalf)
Cian Kelleher(Back Three)
2014
Adam Leavy(Wing)
2015
James Ryan(2nd Row)
Max Deegan(Backrow)
2016
Oisin Dowling(2nd Row)
Ronan Kelleher(Hooker)
Jack Kelly(Outside Back)

Ally Bren 92

Mark o Leary and Conor Shannon are big players for Belvo seniors this year

irishfan9

Ally Bren 92 wrote: »

Only 3-4 serious players u can see playin for Ireland ,Ryan McGrath ,Ryan and leavy,the rest kinda filling up the numbers

Riiiiight.

The Lost Sheep

Ally Bren 92 wrote:

Only 3-4 serious players u can see playin for Ireland ,Ryan McGrath ,Ryan and leavy,the rest kinda filling up the numbers

so what? What's a "serious player" btw?
And that's a great number playing.
Would be far more interested in what numbers from those schools years are still involved playing/coaching/reffing at any level in the sport