The death of golf

Jawgap

‘Quiet please’ for the rapidly accelerating death of golf

An interesting take by Malachy Clerkin. I wouldn't agree with everything he says but I would agree with the idea that golf (for me anyway) never really cuts it as a spectator sport.

fred funk }{

Jawgap wrote: »

‘Quiet please’ for the rapidly accelerating death of golf

An interesting take by Malachy Clerkin. I wouldn't agree with everything he says but I would agree with the idea that golf (for me anyway) never really cuts it as a spectator sport.

That's about the only valid point he makes. The rest is a load of sh1te.

First Up

fred funk }{ wrote:

That's about the only valid point he makes. The rest is a load of sh1te.

Agree. Very poor article.

bustercherry

Most of what he is saying is probably true but just poorly articulates it.

It reminds me of a thread here about molded trainer type shoes vs traditional type shoes a number of years ago sparked by Freddy Couples in the masters. Similar nonsense about traditions of the game being eroded and etiquette; yet the world hasn't ended and I'd argue these type of shoes are the norm rather than the exception now.

death1234567

Terrible, terrible article. Terrible.

Jawgap

I think he has a point - when you look at the cost of attending a tour event or a Major, then set that in the context of how you are treated, it does make you wonder if there is decent value for money being offered?

Wombatman

Great crowds all week at the Irish Open. Well behaved, knowledgeable and respectful according to most of the players. 18th fairway lined from tee to green yesterday clapping Rahm all the way.

The sour opportunist could have wrote about that but chose to be ultra negative.

Sadly the article is getting the attention it is designed for. IT following the Sindo to tabloid land.

3putt

terrible article.

charlieIRL

I got about 2 paragraphs into that and closed it, pure tripe.

tayto lover

Malachy needs to realise that it's not a carnival.
I deplore the American golf tournaments with the clowns roaring "mashed potato" rubbish.
I also prefer following a good club match.

Jawgap

I don't know why people are so quick to write his views off......it's a view from outside golf.

If it's ill informed about the sport from a participant or spectator point of view then maybe the question should be why? To simply write it off as poor journalism or poor editing or attack him as a "sour opportunist" smacks, to be frank, a bit of a denial.

Because, if this is the prevailing view (or even the view of a significant minority) then recruiting members to clubs - and recruiting families to clubs - who have no prior association with the sport is going to be seriously problematic.

Keyzer

Absolute nonsense article written by someone who clearly has a serious personal issue with Golf.

CMOTDibbler

Jawgap wrote: »

I don't know why people are so quick to write his views off......it's a view from outside golf.

If it's ill informed about the sport from a participant or spectator point of view then maybe the question should be why? To simply write it off as poor journalism or poor editing or attack him as a "sour opportunist" smacks, to be frank, a bit of a denial.

Because, if this is the prevailing view (or even the view of a significant minority) then recruiting members to clubs - and recruiting families to clubs - who have no prior association with the sport is going to be seriously problematic.

I'm sorry, but the thrust of his article is (a) clichéed (fuddy duddies in the clubhouse) and (b) pretty hysterical. The notion that people shouldn't be quiet for a golfer to take his stroke is no different than the notion that crowds should remain silent for kick takers in rugby. I know that's not universal, but it exists on these shores at least. Likewise in tennis and other sports where distractions could have an influence on the result.

And finally, how does this have any bearing on the decline in the sport? It would be more realistic to say that the sport's rise and fall is coincident with Tiger's rise and fall.

Jawgap

Keyzer wrote: »

Absolute nonsense article written by someone who clearly has a serious personal issue with Golf.

.....just wondering where you get his from?

He doesn't seem to write about golf that often - in fact his last column on the topic was before the Masters (back in March) when he was saying nice things about Harrington.

.....and would someone who has a "serious personal issue with Golf" be able to write about Christy O'Connor jnr in such generous terms

valoren

He does mention that it's one of the best sports on the planet.
But I think the Author fails to understand the one thing about golf that makes it one of the best.
It's so bloody hard. So much so that it requires your concentration.
Like Snooker, it's a dead ball sport. Should the crowds at the Crucible start singing football-esque chants as Ronnie O'Sullivan is making a big break? To equate a dynamic ball game with Golf is a pointless comparison.

For all golfers, from the beginner hacking their way down the fairway up to Major champions, there is a code of conduct that the says the very second they address the ball, you stay as quiet as you possible can until the club, skillfully or unskillfully, meets the ball.

He does make a good point about Professionals needing absolute silence. Once an effort is made to keep quiet during a shot that is sufficient enough. As for looking for exuberance in crowds, there could never be a 'long drive' contest atmosphere at a stroke play tournament. The Ryder Cup serves that purpose manyfold.

Jawgap

valoren wrote: »

He does mention that it's one of the best sports on the planet.
But I think the Author fails to understand the one thing about golf that makes it one of the best.
It's so bloody hard. So much so that it requires your concentration.
Like Snooker, it's a dead ball sport. Should the crowds at the Crucible start singing football-esque chants as Ronnie O'Sullivan is making a big break? To equate a dynamic ball game with Golf is a pointless comparison.

For all golfers, from the beginner hacking their way down the fairway up to Major champions, there is a code of conduct that the says the very second they address the ball, you stay as quiet as you possible can until the club, skillfully or unskillfully, meets the ball.

He does make a good point about Professionals needing absolute silence. Once an effort is made to keep quiet during a shot that is sufficient enough. As for looking for exuberance in crowds, there could never be a 'long drive' contest atmosphere at a stroke play tournament. The Ryder Cup serves that purpose manyfold.

I always say it's not difficult - it's illusory!!! it makes you think you are just one or two strokes away from mastering it!!

As for chanting - I'd vote we go the way archery is practiced in Bhutan - it's their national sport, but when competitions are on matters are far from quiet !! You're expected to join in the heckling of the opposition, sing songs about them and, if you have a tasty morsel of gossip about a competitor, shout it out as they take aim! It makes for a colourful spectacle......and it would brighten up a Sunday morning fourball!!

Most of his writing seems to be about the GAA and from that perspective it must seem unusual that a highly paid pro using specialist equipment, customised to his exact specification needs dead quiet to strike a ball when an amateur hurler taking a sideline cut gets no such courtesy and is expected to be every bit as accurate with an ash stick and a lump of leather

SeanF

charlieIRL wrote: »

I got about 2 paragraphs into that and closed it, pure tripe.

So basically, you didn't read the article, but still thought to comment on it here?

SeanF

I thought it was an excellent piece that questioned why golf is dying at the moment. It was not a criticism of the game itself, but asking why TV viewership, sales and participation is dropping like a stone.

Never stopping to think that they might be the reason that one of the greatest sports ever conceived is dying on its feet.

I play every week, and I can tell you I am delighted when the people on the timesheet are under the age of 50, with something approaching my own age.

The upshot is that every attempt made to shave some of the more fusty edges off golf is met with resistance, confusion and often barely-disguised contempt.

Absolutely true.

I love the game, but sometimes the people in charge of both the sport and the local clubs would drive you to cycling.

CMOTDibbler

Jawgap wrote: »

I always say it's not difficult - it's illusory!!! it makes you think you are just one or two strokes away from mastering it!!

As for chanting - I'd vote we go the way archery is practiced in Bhutan - it's their national sport, but when competitions are on matters are far from quiet !! You're expected to join in the heckling of the opposition, sing songs about them and, if you have a tasty morsel of gossip about a competitor, shout it out as they take aim! It makes for a colourful spectacle......and it would brighten up a Sunday morning fourball!!

Most of his writing seems to be about the GAA and from that perspective it must seem unusual that a highly paid pro using specialist equipment, customised to his exact specification needs dead quiet to strike a ball when an amateur hurler taking a sideline cut gets no such courtesy and is expected to be every bit as accurate with an ash stick and a lump of leather

Not being flippant, but it all depends on what you're used to.

But again, you've a completely different scenario there. There's a bit of distance between the crowd and the player and so many of them, that it tends to be just background noise. A player teeing off in a tournament is no more than a couple of club lengths from the crowd and individual comments and noises tend to stand out more.

But how is all this connected to the perceived view of golf being in the decline? That's the thesis he didn't prove as far as I'm concerned. It just seems as though he latched on to it, in light of the relaxed phone camera rule and ran a hundred miles with it. He could just have easily based his thesis on players wearing shorts.

FixdePitchmark

No - you should always welcome a bit of external criticism , it is a valid form of journalism and Eamon Dunphy has made a fairly serious career out of sensationalism.

You could write the same type of Article about any sport on this land. (hints of truth in them all). The fact golf gets such a piece is a case of " There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about........" - so well done Rory and Irish Open.

On other sports and golf you could say ......

Soccer - run by a bunch of uneducated fools - nepotistic idiots - and cronies.
Rugby - Pure over hyped elitist boys club - full of their own self importance and self righteousness.
GAA - Money grabbing and full of corrupt localised parish pump great lads, horrible sectarianism and republicanism.
Golf - full of grumpy bigoted snobs, used for self promotion and social class elitism.

So take your pick. Sport, society and politics have always been intertwined into Irish life. The carry on in all these sports is a reflection of our society - but it is a nonsense to think these people do not take part in more than one. In some cases all 4.

I do agree with many of the points he has made. But he has used a style to exaggerate and shock.

Golf is full of lads who do take pleasure in over correction and the guardians of the game types. This is often well meaning - but for example at The Irish Open - heard a rather posh lad go on and on how a top European tour caddy had broken the rules by raking a bunker prior to another player hitting his shot. He was fuming, almost chocking on his £7 horrible burger. I let him off - not wanting to be the over the top correcting type.

Then the number of lads going on and on with their views on golf speaking in out dated language and the past - you basically couldn't go two sentences without knowing what top club they were from. Or they would bring in how the old players were better - even a journalist at the weekend I have massive respect for (Dermot Gilleece) was going on about how the modern pro isn't as skillful as the old guys (Jaysus Dermot) - Rahm, Spieth, Mickelson, Garcia .

How could you not agree there are still some old farts in club houses wanting to keep things as they are - there are.

I think it is touching a GAA man turns to prayer in his piece- being from one of the most bigoted, sectarian, hate filled organisation we have ever formed on this land. Keep at the prayers Malachy - Sunday mass doesn't suit golf times - but you can make it on All Ireland final day.

Participation rates are down and being a man from Monaghan - you should be very careful about the bottle and participation rates. All sports have had ups and downs and the economic downturn had a massive impact on everyone in all sports. There should be no pleasure in that - and there are plenty of bankers and builders involved in GAA and Golf - we have so much in common in a way

On viewing experience, I agree - people in the know got basically free tickets for the golf and parking at the clubhouse. But such is life - have you tried get a ticket for an All Ireland final in the back of the top stand - when every bandwagoner - and idiot from New York is home for the "craic" and the "songs" - but they are in "a box". Also the food isn't great and you are next to some bog man shouting horrible aggressive abuse at an amateur player - sitting next to kids for the "family game".

Shushed - would agree it is all a bit over the top. But offer them a million quid more and they would embrace it, "new way". Worse is having one in your weekend 4 ball and he thinks the Challenge Tour is on next year. You can't stand anywhere , he tells you to move, not mention his score, not walk 3 yards within his line, don't talk during round, he is in zone for 4 hours - as he shoots an 87

But at top level of an accurate sport - concentration is key - but valid point.

Interesting piece.

A very clever friend of mine in journalism - said you have to be very careful with that style of journalism - because when you are challenged at a deeper level , your foundations crumble, because they have nothing behind them. What do you stand for then when you are called on it.

For every Dunphy - there is a Piers Morgan, Katie Hopkins and the likes..

We just should be so happy we have the best, most perfect sport on this land/World/Universe GAA- now that piece would be a laugh.

red ears

I don't think the sport is dying, a study out recently showed the game is growing in popularity among older people, getting young people into it is more difficult due to modern day commitments such as two parents working etc and time commitments. But in the club i'm a member of we have noticed an increase in under 40's coming back to the game and new people taking it up. We are actually seeing some of the MAMIL's coming back too . A large untapped market is getting more women into the game imo.

I was up at the Irish open at the weekend and i must say i love the silence when players are hitting a shot. Id hate to see that go. It was a really nice atmosphere up there, crowds were good and the golf was good.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Seems like the sport got lazy.Tiger Woods was a one man promotion for the sport for over a decade and since his decline those who aren't traditional golf people have gone away.

Seems to me the promotion of the sport to younger people is very poor.I live in a village where there is a golf club and yet not once when I was in primary school did anyone come down from the golf club and try and get chldren involved in the sport.I played for a few summers as a teenager with my friends but haven't played in around 13 or 14 years now, again nobdy in the club approached me about becoming a member contrast that with the GAA for example where they get people out on the ground and down to schools and if you ever go down to try out playing football or hurling with a GAA club you're hounded by them to keep coming and becming a member.

Looking from the outside I think the sport needs to be more positive and aggressive in it's promotion.It has so much going for it completely safe no risk of serious injury unlike Rugby or even Soccer (where heading the ball is linked with dementia) for example.It can be played by people of all shapes and sizes and levels of athleticism and people of all ages.It really should be a much bigger sport than it is and it's already one of the world biggest sports.

Jawgap

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Seems like the sport got lazy.Tiger Woods was a one man promotion for the sport for over a decade and since his decline those who aren't traditional golf people have gone away.

Seems to me the promotion of the sport to younger people is very poor.I live in a village where there is a golf club and yet not once when I was in primary school did anyone come down from the golf club and try and get chldren involved in the sport.I played for a few summers as a teenager with my friends but haven't played in around 13 or 14 years now, again nobdy in the club approached me about becoming a member contrast that with the GAA for example where they get people out on the ground and down to schools and if you ever go down to try out playing football or hurling with a GAA club you're hounded by them to keep coming and becming a member.

Looking from the outside I think the sport needs to be more positive and aggressive in it's promotion.It has so much going for it completely safe no risk of serious injury unlike Rugby or even Soccer (where heading the ball is linked with dementia) for example.It can be played by people of all shapes and sizes and levels of athleticism and people of all ages.It really should be a much bigger sport than it is and it's already one of the world biggest sports.

That would gel with my view.......my own club has done a decent amount of work recruiting juniors and, importantly, has grown the number of kids playing who previously had no affiliation to the club......but only be a few dozen. Don't get me wrong, it's positive progress and hats off to the members and the pro for the work they've put in.

However, our 'competition' isn't the other golf clubs in the region or area, it's the other sports clubs and while we'll never have the hundreds (and I mean hundreds) of kids the local GAA, rugby and soccer clubs have turning up to play and practice, we're still not drawing enough into the sport to keep a lot of clubs viable in the long term - that's my opinion, others may disagree.

I think clubs also need to look at offering differing membership modes - golf, in my view, is the perfect sport for the young rugby or soccer player (late teens to early 30s) - they can play it during the summer, it's low intensity and they can feed their competitive urges!!! So why not offer a mode of membership that starts runs 1 April to 30 September, perhaps even with a discount if they are a member of a 'partner' club of a different sport? Or other such offers that allow people to take on membership that suits their other commitments? I now some for-profit courses do, but more clubs need to be more creative with regard to this issues such as this.

Also, if clubs want to draw more women in then they need to take account of the fact that women work - so running comps, etc on mid-week mornings only is one obvious thing that needs to change.

diomed

Some good points Jawgap about attracting young players and working women.
Pensioners should be encouraged to move to midweek competitions/play, and that would also be a very good time for students in the summer.

I read the linked article and thought the writer depressing.
There are positives and negatives in most sports and those depend on your preferences.

Jawgap

diomed wrote: »

Some good points Jawgap about attracting young players and working women.
Pensioners should be encouraged to move to midweek competitions/play, and that would also be a very good time for students in the summer.

I read the linked article and thought the writer depressing.
There are positives and negatives in most sports and those depend on your preferences.

I absolutely agree - that's why I said at the outset I didn't agree with everything he'd written, but I think it's a mistake, as some posters have done, to dismiss his views out of hand - better to try and figure out why a prominent sports writer would hold such views - because if that's his view then what's the view of the less informed person?

charlieIRL

SeanF wrote: »

So basically, you didn't read the article, but still thought to comment on it here?

No I didn't rear the full article, I read the first few paragraphs and from that i got that the author has a gripe against golf and therefore is not publishing what should be an honest review instead of a biased review.

Jawgap

charlieIRL wrote: »

No I didn't rear the full article, I read the first few paragraphs and from that i got that the author has a gripe against golf and therefore is not publishing what should be an honest review instead of a biased review.

I hope I'm not being dense but when poster suggest that the journo has a gripe or is sour on golf.....how do they reconcile that with him describing it as "one of the greatest sports ever conceived......."?

.....no doubt he has a gripe against aspects of the sport and its administration, but isn't that part of being fan? Soccer fans complain about the FAI, the use/non-use of video evidence, ticket prices, overpaid primadonnas......rugby fans about the 'blazers,' choke tackling, slow ball.....GAA fans about HQ, the DRA, puke football etc etc

Having a gripe doesn't mean you're not a fan - if anything making an argument as to how the game might be improved is being more of a fan.....sure if no one griped about golf we'd still be teeing off from greens, doing over the shoulder drops and making use of the stymie.

First Up

His gripe seems to be confined to the spectator experience at professional events. Whatever one thinks of that, I think its fair to say that it represents a very small part of peoples' connection with the game.

Giving such an article a title of "Death of Golf" is a bit silly.

FixdePitchmark

Unless he didn't pick his title for the article ?

newport2

Jawgap wrote: »

Also, if clubs want to draw more women in then they need to take account of the fact that women work - so running comps, etc on mid-week mornings only is one obvious thing that needs to change.

In my club there are two groups of women, those who work and those who don't. Committee is jammed with those who don't and everything is organised around themselves. Drives my wife mad. Midweek comps do have an alternate day at weekend, but only with extremely limited tee-times and only long drive and closest to pin in the mid-week part. Then they'll go and have the prize-giving at 4pm on Wednesday or something to that effect. And then they'll give out when winners don't attend to collect prize.

First Up

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Unless he didn't pick his title for the article ?

It would be a pretty dramatic title for a sub-editor to use.

Kevinmarkham

I thought it was a terrible piece. There was the seed of a good point within his rationale but then he started on the gin.

John Craven sums up everything that's wrong with it in today's IGM Digital+ magazine

Minderbinder

I'm not convinced that silence is necessary or even a good thing. If everyone was talking it would have the same effect as silence in a way, the golfers wouldn't even notice it after a while. Silence, on the other hand is very hard to achieve with such crowds and for me it would be off putting during the silence just sort of waiting for a noise to put me off.

I don't think it's a big issue though either way. I don't think it is stopping people attending events.

I have to agree that as a spectator sport it doesn't offer a lot. I love playing golf but you get to see very little of the action at events compared to what you see on tv.

CMOTDibbler

Minderbinder wrote: »

I'm not convinced that silence is necessary or even a good thing. If everyone was talking it would have the same effect as silence in a way, the golfers wouldn't even notice it after a while. Silence, on the other hand is very hard to achieve with such crowds and for me it would be off putting during the silence just sort of waiting for a noise to put me off.

I don't think it's a big issue though either way. I don't think it is stopping people attending events.

I have to agree that as a spectator sport it doesn't offer a lot. I love playing golf but you get to see very little of the action at events compared to what you see on tv.

I think everyone has pretty much said this. Including in that column that Kevin Markham linked. The real distraction is the unexpected noise or probably the unexpected silence.

There's also the added factor of the galleries being much closer to the player than in most other sports. On tee boxes, they're no more than a couple of club lengths away, so it's easy for one individual noise/comment/whatever to stand out from the crowd.

Golf is pretty unique in that respect.

red ears

We live in a very noisy world these days.. can people not shut the f**k up for a few seconds while someone hits a shot

Wombatman

red ears wrote: »

We live in a very noisy world these days.. can people not shut the f**k up for a few seconds while someone hits a shot

Tennis, snooker, golf, archery, shooting etc

Sports that require concentration before execution frown upon noise that could break that concentration. How can anybody have a problem with this concept?

Most sports have become popular due to the nature of the game and participation. Some sports and the spectator don't go well. If everyone spent as much time participating in sports, as they do spectating, analyzing and commentating, the world would be a better place IMHO.