Are Irish universities spreading propaganda like in the USA/UK?

marcus001

I've just come from another thread where this was mentioned but decided not to go off topic and started my own.

FWIW I went to university and didn't experience much politicised content, but I didn't do Arts or anything like that.

Anyone care to share their experiences?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Nothing whatsoever in my day. Though one man's truth is another man's propaganda.

strandroad

There are LGBT societies in place and equality is a given. For some people that's propaganda.

bodice ripper

Nope. I did fine art. There was a gender studies elective module, but I skipped it in favour of letter carving in stone.

You were allowed to pick your own marks in the gender studies module, so I was alone in the shed carving letters.

DontThankMe

The one thing I did notice is that a few of the lecturers did bash trump and complain about him but they always said this is my opinion and ppl don't have to agree with me etc.

Pure tashte

Is it universities spreading propaganda or is it university students (typically one of the more radicalised and outspoken demographics in society) making their voices heard through technological advancements like social media?

The content of their arguments might be different, but is the context really that different to any student counterculture that has been prevalent around the world since the 60s? ie are students by their nature pretty politically anti-establishment?

Samaris

Not while I was there anyway. Was in Science which tends to be quieter (not to mention smaller!), but had a fair few Arts friends and didn't particularly see anything going on either. Mind you, if I didn't agree with some poster up around the place, I'd probably have thought "sounds like bullsh*t" and then wandered off and gotten on with my life, so whatever I didn't agree with probably didn't register deeply enough to bother remembering.

BlinkingLights

In what way are US universities 'spreading propaganda' ?
Or, is this just another Trump and his supporters' attack on anyone who challenges or disagrees with them and a constant battle against 'experts' and 'the main stream media'.

The 800 gender nonsnence, everyone's special, needs safe spaces

marcus001

BlinkingLights wrote: »

In what way are US universities 'spreading propaganda' ?
Or, is this just another Trump and his supporters' attack on anyone who challenges or disagrees with them and a constant battle against 'experts' and 'the main stream media'.

Well from what I've read a lot of students are being radicalised by their professors resulting in carnage and violent protests on campuses. But I'm not interested in debating US universities on this thread..

super_furry

There are too many Irish people getting too wrapped up in American right wing identity politics. All that time spent on alt-right/red pill forums and watching those creepy Youtube videos isn't going to do you any good and you don't have to start looking for "enemies" over here.

University lecturers don't need to spread any propaganda these days, the students will find and follow their own "version of the truth" via the internet.
Mostly in isolation from other students, as that is how the internet allows you to form opinions these days.
It's when a group of students discover that there are many others on the same campus with similar opinions, that's when things could get "interesting".

The_Valeyard

BlinkingLights wrote: »

In what way are US universities 'spreading propaganda' ?
Or, is this just another Trump and his supporters' attack on anyone who challenges or disagrees with them and a constant battle against 'experts' and 'the main stream media'.

Think its the other way dude. Students in the US seem to need safe spaces or stop speakers with different views from giving a talk in the college. Or have 'black only' area in Berkley university. That kind of sh*te.


Then again didnt we have that moron up in Galway uni about the Israeli speaker?

marcus001

super_furry wrote: »

There are too many Irish people getting too wrapped up in American right wing identity politics. All that time spent on alt-right/red pill forums and watching those creepy Youtube videos isn't going to do you any good and you don't have to start looking for "enemies" over here.

The only person who seems to be identifying their enemies here is you, and you seem to have all the labels to describe them.

Irish Praetorian

University is a place where you are exposed to other people's opinions, that includes the lecturers. The entire point of University (well lets say arts for now) is not that you take on-board whatever the prevailing opinion is, but rather that you learn how to cogently and effectively form an argument. Now I suspect the easiest way for people to do this is to simply parrot back whatever line their lecturers take, which is disappointing. But quite frankly you can teach people how to make an argument, you can't force them to be more inquisitive about common assumptions, which I suspect is where a lot of people's opinions emerge from. Take for example the issue of multiculturalism, on here its a very pressing contested issue, but most people simply don't care and will happily abide by the received wisdom on the topic.

super_furry

I've no enemies at all, I'm just left baffled by the amount of Irish people so desperate to wrap themselves up in American online identity nonsense. There's even people declaring their support for the NRA now and getting in rows over US gun rights.

marcus001

super_furry wrote: »

I've no enemies at all, I'm just left baffled by the amount of Irish people so desperate to wrap themselves up in American online identity nonsense. There's even people declaring their support for the NRA now and getting in rows over US gun rights.

Aren't you so cool and above it all.

super_furry

marcus001 wrote: »

Aren't you so cool and above it all.

Kinda. How are you? How's your day going so far?

Pac1Man

Although they do have their drawbacks and are not for everyone, this is where trades are great.

You skip all of this pandering whimpy BS and jump straight into real life.

marcus001

super_furry wrote: »

Kinda. How are you? How's your day going so far?

Pretty breezy. Sweating my balls off in the garden, what about yourself?

super_furry

Working away, should be done pretty soon though and then out to enjoy the sun.

marcus001

super_furry wrote: »

Working away, should be done pretty soon though and then out to enjoy the sun.

No work on the sabbath for me :pac:

The_Valeyard

super_furry wrote: »

I've no enemies at all, I'm just left baffled by the amount of Irish people so desperate to wrap themselves up in American online identity nonsense. There's even people declaring their support for the NRA now and getting in rows over US gun rights.

Transference?

I'd hate for all this American crap to work it's way into the Irish University system.

super_furry

super_furry wrote: »

I've no enemies at all, I'm just left baffled by the amount of Irish people so desperate to wrap themselves up in American online identity nonsense. There's even people declaring their support for the NRA now and getting in rows over US gun rights.

The NRA used to drive us insane, with their mad road plans!! :P

Atoms for Peace

I think your giving Irish students far too much credit OP, they've never been more un politicised, joining young FG is probably as radical as it gets.:pac:

Dyr

super_furry wrote: »

I've no enemies at all, I'm just left baffled by the amount of Irish people so desperate to wrap themselves up in American online identity nonsense. There's even people declaring their support for the NRA now and getting in rows over US gun rights.

I think the important thing is us over here is that we take a long hard look at the cliff the US has gone over with identity politics both left and right and then we tell the muppets over here who are mimicking it that their bull**** will not be tolerated.

biko

I have a degree in sociology but I got it a long time ago when feminism was still old school and before SJW had entered the scene.
So it was a lot of patriarchy and society's classes but on a more sensible level than today.


We never had any of these

riffmongous

Sure who'd have time for any of that nonsense with all the drinking you'd be doing?

The_Valeyard

riffmongous wrote: »

Sure who'd have time for any of that nonsense with all the drinking you'd be doing?

Great. That's all we need. Militant teetotalers. Want to ban alcohol cause it's offending them.

The_Valeyard

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Great. That's all we need. Militant teetotalers. Want to ban alcohol cause it's offending them.

Don't give the ideas to some of them .

Yourself isit

Bambi wrote: »

I think the important thing is us over here is that we take a long hard look at the cliff the US has gone over with identity politics both left and right and then we tell the muppets over here who are mimicking it that their bull**** will not be tolerated.

I did see someone on FB rant about ending 500 years of white supremacy in ireland.

In general though it looks like this is happening outside the universities. We don't have the luxury of spending our days ranting about being oppressed in Yale while still getting a too 10% job just because we went to Yale.

The_Valeyard

Tommy Yellow Swag wrote: »

Don't give the ideas to some of them .

Right now, somewhere.....a group is formed.

BlinkingLights

I think the main thing we need to realise it's that the USA is basically having a bit if a breakdown at the moment. You've a completely bonkers presidential administration, a legislature the hasn't really been functioning and spends all of its time blocking things and trying to rollback fundamental rights etc etc

A lot of this safe space stuff is a reaction to an extremely right wing federal government and quite a few crazy state legislature too.

Ireland doesn't need to and hopefully isn't adopting the US' particular brand of off the wall politics.

We've a centrist, parliamentary democracy elected by proportional representation, not a binary two party system that swings all over the place. We also (in the Republic anyway) don't have an issue with political religious fundamentalism anymore and have moved far more into the Northern European style of pragmatism.

We've also got none of the nasty far right politics that is seeking to rollback on things like LGBT rights or turf out religious minorities.

You have to understand the US campuses and cities too in the sense that the federal government is quite literally out to get them. It's not even just a conspiracy theory - you've a massive anti-academic, anti urban and very far right shift in US politics that is pretty much unprecedented.

The fact that US students are protesting isn't surprising at all. I would fully expect the US to go into a near social meltdown the way things are going. Something like France in 1968 is probably on the cards over the next few years.

I think what you're seeing in the states is a sort of unfocused student anger starting to simmer.

Sadly, I think unless the US (and actually the UK too) find some centrist pragmatism again, they're going to be in for absolute chaos in the short to medium term.

The_Valeyard

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I think the main thing we need to realise it's that the USA is basically having a bit if a breakdown at the moment. You've a completely bonkers presidential administration, a legislature the hasn't really been functioning and spends all of its time blocking things and trying to rollback fundamental rights etc etc

A lot of this safe space stuff is a reaction to an extremely right wing federal government and quite a few crazy state legislature too.

Yeah but lot of this stuff all took off during a Democratic Presidential era. Not a republican era. So it's all a bit odd.

BlinkingLights

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Yeah but lot of this stuff all took off during a Democratic Presidential era. Not a republican era. So it's all a bit odd.

You're all focusing on the president though.
It took place during an incredibly hostile Congressional period where Obama basically couldn't drive most his policies through.

The US presidency isn't the sole wielder of power and Congress has not been functioning normally for far longer than that.

There's a huge issue in so far as this isn't normal US politics. The GOP was a perfectly normal, right leaning, conservative party. You could disagree with them on many issues but still see them as a fair, safe political movement.

That's changed enormously since the rise of the Tea Party and now the Trump administration.

Trump's only the flowering phase of what has been fungus that's been destroying the US right for more than a decade now.

You've also got a situation where because of the electoral college and widespread gerrymandering, the party in power is seeking to hold power.

There's an unreasonable bias towards rural US votes because of how the system is constructed and a portal of cities and liberal areas as elites, even though they're now grossly underrepresented by a system that was setup for an era when the USA was far less urbanised.

The whole system is just starting to fall apart and there's seemingly no will to come together and fix it.

My sense is that the US could easily end up as a loose federation of very independent states looking a lot more like the EU if things keep moving the way they are. The American identity is basically starting to fragment into a whole series of media and political bubbles that can't agree on anything anymore.

Yourself isit

BlinkingLights wrote: »

You're all focusing on the president though.
It took place during an incredibly hostile Congressional period where Obama basically couldn't drive most his policies through.

The US presidency isn't the sole wielder of power and Congress has not been functioning normally for far longer than that.

There's a huge issue in so far as this isn't normal US politics. The GOP was a perfectly normal, right leaning, conservative party. You could disagree with them on many issues but still see them as a fair, safe political movement.

That's changed enormously since the rise of the Tea Party and now the Trump administration.

Trump's only the flowering phase of what has been fungus that's been destroying the US right for more than a decade now.

I don't think the universities are a reaction to the tea party. They have always been left wing. Just more radicalised.

The_Valeyard

BlinkingLights wrote: »

You're all focusing on the president though.
It took place during an incredibly hostile Congressional period where Obama basically couldn't drive most his policies through.

The US presidency isn't the sole wielder of power and Congress has not been functioning normally for far longer than that.

There's a huge issue in so far as this isn't normal US politics. The GOP was a perfectly normal, right leaning, conservative party. You could disagree with them on many issues but still see them as a fair, safe political movement.

That's changed enormously since the rise of the Tea Party and now the Trump administration.

Trump's only the flowering phase of what has been fungus that's been destroying the US right for more than a decade now.

You could equally argue that parts Of the left in the Democratic party went to far left they ended up off a cliff. Some liberal elements acted like a poison and stopped people voting Democrat. Could be bit of both.

BlinkingLights

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You could equally argue that parts Of the left in the Democratic party went to far left they ended up off a cliff. Some liberal elements acted like a poison and stopped people voting Democrat. Could be bit of both.

To be honest, you couldn't really argue that the Democrats are much more than a centrist and even centre right neoliberal party in many ways.

Their policies are more in line with a European centre right party across most issues.

They've a bit of a left fringe but it's not very big and that only because American politics is so weirdly structured that everything has to fit into one of two parties.

I mean other than on abortion (and only in an irish context), you could easily put Hilary Clinton or John Kerry or even Obama into FG, the CDU, the UMP/les républicains or even a centrist Tory.

marcus001

Some seem to be upset that I even asked the question

Panjandrums

This post has been deleted.

Ulysses Gaze

super_furry wrote: »

I've no enemies at all, I'm just left baffled by the amount of Irish people so desperate to wrap themselves up in American online identity nonsense. There's even people declaring their support for the NRA now and getting in rows over US gun rights.

In your original post though, you just called out the Right Wing/Alt Right.
The Left wing/Regressive left are just as bad.

Both sides have their quota of supporters who spend their lives wrapped up in asinine online battles over identity politics.

The rest of the population just get on with our lives.

marcus001

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

In your original post though, you just called out the Right Wing/Alt Right.
The Left wing are just as bad.

Both sides have their quota of supporters who spend their lives wrapped up in asinine online battles over identity politics.

The rest of the population just get on with our lives.

I'm equally baffled by leftist friends posting Leninist memes online and tbh have never actually met someone from the radical right in real life.

BlinkingLights

Some people seem to be living in on-line US centric media bubbles and extending largely irrelevant debates from both sides of the US arguments to Ireland.

We need to be very careful we don't get sucked into the vortex of crazy that is American politics right now.

Ireland could do very well by being a small, pragmatic country right now as US and UK politics go off the deep end and send a lot of people looking for new places to setup shop, away from the inability and populist flying off the deep end stuff.

A_Sober_Paddy

Had a marketing lecturer who occasionally mentioned conspiracy theories like cancer not being cured because big pharma would not make enough money...But they had the cure...Complete spastic, he also was terrible at his job, he thought some parts of models the wrong way. And it contradicted the book. Was like being told x + y =t by him...But the course book was x + y = h but when you mentioned it too him, he responded well is the author of the book correcting your exams or me

Dyr

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I think the main thing we need to realise it's that the USA is basically having a bit if a breakdown at the moment. You've a completely bonkers presidential administration, a legislature the hasn't really been functioning and spends all of its time blocking things and trying to rollback fundamental rights etc etc

A lot of this safe space stuff is a reaction to an extremely right wing federal government and quite a few crazy state legislature too.
.

The whole safe space nonsense started long before Donnie had a notion of becoming president.

I reckon the current schism in American society started with the right wing radio hosts and the rise of the tea party. Their consumerist mindset hasn't helped, the modern american of any persuasion can't seem to cope with not getting their way

Presume the roman empire went a bit like this before it popped its clogs

Panjandrums

Panjandrums wrote: »

It's usually the Students Unions which are run by odd balls spreading nonsense.

Agreed with them trying to get consent classes mandatory ... least most of them aren't going ahead

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

The whole safe space nonsense started long before Donnie had a notion of becoming president.

I was over there 5 or 6 years ago and remember hearing infowars for the first time.

What ever was on was bonkers and i was wondering where are ye going with this stuff lads :pac:

Ulysses Gaze

Bambi wrote: »

The whole safe space nonsense started long before Donnie had a notion of becoming president.

I reckon the current schism in American society started with the right wing radio hosts and the rise of the tea party. Their consumerist mindset hasn't helped, the modern american of any persuasion can't seem to cope with not getting their way

Presume the roman empire went a bit like this before it popped its clogs

Really started after 9/11 when Bush and NeoCons started throwing their weight around.

marcus001

BlinkingLights wrote: »

To be honest, you couldn't really argue that the Democrats are much more than a centrist and even centre right neoliberal party in many ways.

Their policies are more in line with a European centre right party across most issues.

They've a bit of a left fringe but it's not very big and that only because American politics is so weirdly structured that everything has to fit into one of two parties.

I mean other than on abortion (and only in an irish context), you could easily put Hilary Clinton or John Kerry or even Obama into FG, the CDU, the UMP/les républicains or even a centrist Tory.

Trying to describe a political party with so many internal factions as one particular thing is silly. There's the corporatist faction, the neoliberal faction, there is a large socialist wing of the Democratic party, and they're taking over at the local level if Sanders' Facebook postings are to be believed.

suicide_circus

super_furry wrote: »

There are too many Irish people getting too wrapped up in American right wing identity politics. All that time spent on alt-right/red pill forums and watching those creepy Youtube videos isn't going to do you any good and you don't have to start looking for "enemies" over here.

Whatever you do, don't address the flipside of the coin

Yourself isit

marcus001 wrote: »

Trying to describe a political party with so many internal factions as one particular thing is silly. There's the corporatist faction, the neoliberal faction, there is a large socialist wing of the Democratic party, and they're taking over at the local level if Sanders' Facebook postings are to be believed.

The socialist wing - which would be a good idea - is relatively new and not well funded.