Very poor article in The Sun paper by Rob Gill

Seriously, whay do Journalists today simply have 0 pride in their work, think they can write any crap and think that it's actually ok ?

If I were to do such poor work I "know" there'd be consequences , seriously , these so called Journalists today are useless and should be fired.

A journalist in my opinion should be someone who researches the facts and has no agenda, someone who informs people of those facts honestly and to the best of their ability. This is again, clearly not done here.

Screw you photobucket !!!! I'm not paying you 400 a year ransom to post pics on forums you dirt bags !!!!!

And they never informed people either of this and this means all my photos on any form including here are now gone , this is unbelievable !!!!!

CeilingFly

"journalism" and "The Sun" are two incompatible matches.

Rags such as the sun / herald / daily muck / star / sunday worst etc are pure hysterical sensationalist rags that are as far removed from journalism as you can get

mb1725

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> Nips out to buy The Sun

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>

isnottheword

The only journalist who has made a decent effort in presenting the facts re. EV's is John Cradden in his article a couple of months back. The reason was that in addition to his diligent research of the subject, he also contacted the irish ev community and asked them for their REAL WORLD feedback.

Kudos John. As for the rest of them, all inaccurate pieces.

colm_mcm

Deleted User wrote: »

Use www.postimg.org

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously, whay do Journalists today simply have 0 pride in their work, think they can write any crap and think that it's actually ok ?

If I were to do such poor work I "know" there'd be consequences , seriously , these so called Journalists today are useless and should be fired.

A journalist in my opinion should be someone who researches the facts and has no agenda, someone who informs people of those facts honestly and to the best of their ability. This is again, clearly not done here.

What's all this about?

isnottheword

Deleted User wrote: »

What's all this about?

Title of thread => "Very Poor Article In The Sun Paper By Rob Gill"

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Use www.postimg.org

Thanks, checking it out now.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

What's all this about?

I'm trying to get the photo's sorted. It's about another poorly written article on electrics and hybrids by a so called professional.

ED E

colm_mcm wrote: »

Use www.postimg.org

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks, checking it out now.

Imgur. Imgur imgur imgur.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Use www.postimg.org

Thanks, I actually like that site, fast, simple and effective !

Ok Pics up at post 1.

n97 mini

Just attach the jpgs to the post. You can then copy the links and put the [img][/img] tags around them.

Thanks for getting the images up!

What's your issue with the piece?

DrPhilG

Lol, apparently I'm a posh, elbow patch wearing snob from Dublin.

As opposed to a scruffy bog hopper from Donegal...

pwurple

Lol, my IT guy Dave (with a leaf) will be interested to hear it doesn't suit him.

More of the same...

goz83

We should really tackle these idiots, as they harm the uptake of ev

Has he got a twitter account ? we should publicly humiliate him and insist he do proper research first !

Jobs OXO

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks for getting the images up!

What's your issue with the piece?

Seems reasonable enough for me

Tigger

Deleted User wrote: »

Has he got a twitter account ? we should publicly humiliate him and insist he do proper research first !

Is ev a religion ?

Orebro

Tigger wrote: »

Is ev a religion ?

No - it stands for Electric Vehicle.

Well for starters he didn't mention the majority of charging is done at home and 250+ km range electrics are not far away and the more range the car has to begin with the less dependence you will have on the public charging network. And not only that but cars are starting to charge much faster too such as the ioniq, he didn't mention that with a single 30 min charge an Ioniq is capable of driving about 300 Kms.

2nd, the Prius never had Lithium batteries to begin with, and talking about an environmental concerns, all the minerals to make any car travel some distances , then include the energy needed to produce petrol and diesel and ship it all over the world to burn it at only 20-30% efficiency and that's not to mention the energy that went in to exploration before a drop of oil has been extracted.

When batteries have reached end of life for automotive use they will be used as storage for the grid.

"they take too long to charge, 4 , 6 , 7 hrs to charge from home"

This muppet obviously shouldn't be writing articles on electric cars, perhaps he should consult actual owners first.

You charge at night on cheap night time electricity, you get up get into a fully charged car and drive off, Jesus, is it so hard to do some research, he wouldn't have to do much if he only had to contact actual ev owners to get their view.

The sad thing is that there are a lot of people who buy and read the Sun paper and will believe this crap.

He promotes hybrids yet comments on the high cost of electric cars and also the cost of hybrids and sees hybrids as the "stepping stone" ?

Electrics are not more expensive than their diesel equivalent.

DrPhilG

Tigger wrote: »

Is ev a religion ?

For some...

jackofalltrades

Don't see what the uproar is about.
Sure he could have listed examples of EVs with better further ranges.
But I think he's spot in with his "The sticking points are charge time, range and cost" comment.
As much as I don't want to read closed minded articles from journalists, I also don't want to read propaganda pieces that wash over EVs limitations.

Mad Lad wrote:

Electrics are not more expensive than their diesel equivalent.

Can you give examples? I'm fairly sure it's the other way around.

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

"they take too long to charge, 4 , 6 , 7 hrs to charge from home"

This muppet obviously shouldn't be writing articles on electric cars, perhaps he should consult actual owners first.

You charge at night on cheap night time electricity, you get up get into a fully charged car and drive off, Jesus, is it so hard to do some research, he wouldn't have to do much if he only had to contact actual ev owners to get their view.

The sad thing is that there are a lot of people who buy and read the Sun paper and will believe this crap.

Is the actual statement in bold incorrect though? No it isn't.

To be honest he identifies the real world obstacles to mass market uptake - ones that often get lost around here, buried under increasing subsidy ideas. These are limited range and speed of charging. These aspects are both inferior to ICE and that is a fact. The article says these are being addressed but until the challenges are overcome at a reasonable cost, uptake will be suppressed. This is not a controversial opinion, its fairly reasonable in fact.

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Don't see what the uproar is about.
Sure he could have listed examples of EVs with better further ranges.
But I think he's spot in with his "The sticking points are charge time, range and cost" comment.
As much as I don't want to read closed minded articles from journalists, I also don't want to read propaganda pieces that wash over EVs limitations.

For starters , his comments about environmental concerns, he should also have compared to the environmental impact of ICE cars which includes the fuel, and electrics can make use of any wind energy on the grid and owners have the option to install wind turbines and solar PV, though admittedly this is only practical with a feed-in-tariff.

He should have got quotes from actual owners to see how an EV meets their needs.

Someone half considering an EV but might not know all the facts would be seriously put off by that article. The recharge times, most people do not think even think about an EV recharging at night time for the majority of their driving and would think right away, that that is too inconvenient.

Then the cost , people will be instantly turned off because people do think electric cars are mad expensive and won't even bother to find out.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Can you give examples? I'm fairly sure it's the other way around.

The Leaf and the Ioniq can all be got for similar cost to other hatch diesels such as the Golf, I30, Megane, Cee'd etc etc. The E-Golf is more expensive but probably not much more than a higher powered TDI such as the 180 Hp.

The I3 is a different beast, much higher quality and a lot more fun. For anyone considering a GTI Golf or GT TDI Golf the I3 could be a very attractive alternative.

The article also didn't mention the fact that electrics have timers to set the heat to come on before you get into the car on cold mornings which a lot of people might appreciate.

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

He promotes hybrids yet comments on the high cost of electric cars and also the cost of hybrids and sees hybrids as the "stepping stone" ?

Electrics are not more expensive than their diesel equivalent.

eGolf - List price € 44,890
2.0 TDI GTD DSG 5 dr € 42,295

Still sure about that?

oppenheimer1

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

eGolf - List price € 44,890
2.0 TDI GTD DSG 5 dr € 42,295

Still sure about that?

Are you ?

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you ?

Yes.
http://www.carzone.ie/new-cars/volkswagen/Golf/hatchback

See what happens when you don't do your research ? , now the general public can be forgiven for making such a mistake but not a Journalist.?

And anyone who would go to the carzone site and see that would be instantly turned off.

You do know that price excludes the 5 K grant and the 5 K VRT relief ?

Autochange

The journalist is right though. Mass purchase of electric cars is a long long way away. I remember a company called better place who a few years ago were to build battery swap out stations for Renault/Nissan. They folded in 6 months. The interest is just not there.

Battery swap was never going to work. No one wants to pay a fee PM to use such a service. Then there's the initial cost of setting up and buying all those batteries, huge.

Think of all the Leaf and Ioniq owners today, ask them will they ever buy another ICE car again and they most likely will tell you no, due to the misinformation surrounding electric cars , it's actual owners who need to be interviewed before publishing articles.

Current gen electric cars suit the majority of people, granted they're not perfect but the Ioniq and 40 Kwh Zoe are a lot better than the first Gen leaf. The Zoe shown to be capable of 300 Kms, yes at slower speeds but it can do it. Probably not in winter. Average range will be close to 250 Kms at 100-110 Kph. And the Ioniq charges fast on DC. 23-90% in 25 mins.

So while recharge times will be on people's minds it's not nearly an issue like it is for 24 Kwh leaf owners.

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

See what happens when you don't do your research ? , now the general public can be forgiven for making such a mistake but not a Journalist.?

And anyone who would go to the carzone site and see that would be instantly turned off.

You do know that price excludes the 5 K grant and the 5 K VRT relief ?

Yes, I did. To make a fair comparison I gave the RRP as that is the fairest way to give a comparison. Even after all the grants it is still more expensive than a highline diesel golf. In order to be competitive the evs need to be competitive at the bottom of the market

The main thrust of his argument related to range and charge speed. You highlighted the 8hr charge speed at home as being misinformation. Was that fact incorrect?

Yes that's a fact that between 4-8 hrs is the charge time at home, however he did not mention that most charging is done at night on night time and on the cheaper rate , he made it sound is that you'll "have to" wait 8 hours to recharge and most of the time it takes less because you will rarely arrive home with a dead battery.

He also didn't give comparable costs to dive compared to diesel.

oppenheimer1

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Yes, I did. To make a fair comparison I gave the RRP as that is the fairest way to give a comparison. Even after all the grants it is still more expensive than a highline diesel golf. In order to be competitive the evs need to be competitive at the bottom of the market

The main thrust of his argument related to range and charge speed. You highlighted the 8hr charge speed at home as being misinformation. Was that fact incorrect?

No you did not do your research, the E-Golf RRP is 35,600 K.

The 1.6 TDI Highline is 32K but costs a lot more to run and isn't even automatic and you can't even pre heat it on a cold day, add a parking heater to that and it will cost a min of 1K extra, you can't even get that here anyway.

Autochange

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes that's a fact that between 4-8 hrs is the charge time at home, however he did not mention that most charging is done at night on night time and on the cheaper rate , he made it sound is that you'll "have to" wait 8 hours to recharge and most of the time it takes less because you will rarely arrive home with a dead battery.

He also didn't give comparable costs to dive compared to diesel.

think of the extra pollution that will be created to generate all of that extra electricity

tut tut

Electrics can use any electricity on the grid generated from renewable sources and they use their energy at about 80% compared to a diesel at about 30% at best at about 80 Kph, in town a lot less. And diesel has to be refined which consumes a lot of energy.

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes that's a fact that between 4-8 hrs is the charge time at home, however he did not mention that most charging is done at night on night time and on the cheaper rate , he made it sound is that you'll "have to" wait 8 hours to recharge and most of the time it takes less because you will rarely arrive home with a dead battery.

He also didn't give comparable costs to dive compared to diesel.

You don't give enough credit to the intelligence of people reading the article. If any device has an 8hr charge time then it is obvious it would have to be done at night for the most part - no more than the slow charging mobile phones we used to have.

Highlighting the 8hr charge is important because if you drive to a destination with a depleted battery and without fast charging (anywhere in the mid west) you will have to wait anywhere up to 8hrs to make the return journey. The answer is of course more fcp's and larger batteries - but it is valid to highlight the current issue with current gen vehicles..

Autochange

All im saying is that mass purchases of clectric cars is a long long way away.

Also it is well known in the motor trade that electric car drivers are a strange bunch. We all have different opinions. peace

No I certainly do not give enough credit to a lot of people who walk around half brain dead and who believe anything.

Electric car owners are people who can think outside the box.

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

Battery swap was never going to work. No one wants to pay a fee PM to use such a service. Then there's the initial cost of setting up and buying all those batteries, huge.

Think of all the Leaf and Ioniq owners today, ask them will they ever buy another ICE car again and they most likely will tell you no, due to the misinformation surrounding electric cars , it's actual owners who need to be interviewed before publishing articles.

Current gen electric cars suit the majority of people, granted they're not perfect but the Ioniq and 40 Kwh Zoe are a lot better than the first Gen leaf. The Zoe shown to be capable of 300 Kms, yes at slower speeds but it can do it. Probably not in winter. Average range will be close to 250 Kms at 100-110 Kph. And the Ioniq charges fast on DC. 23-90% in 25 mins.

So while recharge times will be on people's minds it's not nearly an issue like it is for 24 Kwh leaf owners.

Its a bit hypocritical to say that EV's are not perfect, then criticise a journalist who points out their limitations.

The product is not good enough at the moment and that includes the ioniq - uptake will only increase as the product improves (as it will)

Autochange

Deleted User wrote: »

Electric car owners are people who can think outside the box.

of course. Totally outside the box.

Orebro

Autochange wrote: »

All im saying is that mass purchases of clectric cars is a long long way away.

Also it is well known in the motor trade that electric car drivers are a strange bunch. We all have different opinions. peace

Yes they would think that I suppose, since the EV revolution is a huge threat to their livelihoods. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

liamog

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Its a bit hypocritical to say that EV's are not perfect, then criticise a journalist who points out their limitations.

The product is not good enough at the moment and that includes the ioniq - uptake will only increase as the product improves (as it will)

His limitations were a little outdated.
The Ioniq has approx 200km range, the Zoe 40 around 240km.

He comments on charging a car needing to be as convenient as charging a Fiesta, last I checked you can leave your Fiesta outside your house until the cows come home and will have added exactly zero range. I can plug the Ioniq when I get home, the next morning it's back to full. I've spent exactly 1 minute waiting on the charging instead of driving for 10 mins to a petrol station and waiting five minutes to pump and pay.

Autochange

Orebro wrote: »

Yes they would think that I suppose, since the EV revolution is a huge threat to their livelihoods. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Not necessarily. Where will you buy your cars and get maintenance done?
You will still have to visit the main dealer. Even more so as they will be the only ones qualified to repair your vehicle.

Its the indy shops who should be worried

isnottheword

Autochange wrote: »

All im saying is that mass purchases of clectric cars is a long long way away.

People are slow to change and there are vested interests that resist change. There's a 200KM range affordable car on the market that charges at a faster rate than what went before it.
Now, what percentage of the driving public needs greater range than that...and if they do, how often?

Purely from a selfish point of view, I'm delighted if people like yourself are of the belief that EV's have not come of age. It means incentives stay in place - meaning I keep on saving €160/month on fuel alone (that's before consideration of those expensive services that were ending up as >€500/year for me on diesel).

Autochange wrote: »

Also it is well known in the motor trade that electric car drivers are a strange bunch. We all have different opinions. peace

Autochange wrote: »

of course. Totally outside the box.

Really? Whereas petrol heads are what exactly? I don't mind not being a sheep. I'll never drive a diesel/petrol ever again. Are 25% of the car buying public in Norway also 'a strange bunch'?

Autochange wrote: »

Not necessarily. Where will you buy your cars and get maintenance done?

The point he's making is that there's damn all maintenance. Where will you buy your car - you can buy off a main dealer or an indy - you can do so in Ireland or the UK. However, Tesla intend to disrupt this model - as they are doing in the U.S. already.

Autochange wrote: »

You will still have to visit the main dealer. Even more so as they will be the only ones qualified to repair your vehicle.

Check through this section and see what sort of major surgery has been necessary thus far for EV drivers....very little. Yes, of course at this point in time, if you are unlucky enough to have something major go wrong outside of warranty, then you're stuck with a main dealer (can also happen with ICE anyway). As regards regular servicing, what is there to do? Brake fluid? Anyone can do that. Pollen filter, ditto. Break discs/pads (aside from the fact that they will last 2x the time than with a diesel/petrol due to regen) - can't an indy do that? What else is there?

Autochange wrote: »

Its the indy shops who should be worried

Independents were/are getting squeezed with the way manufacturers are designing in complexity to shut them out - and force people back to the main dealers when there's an issue.
Furthermore, as EV development progresses, independents will pop up.

Autochange

isnottheword wrote: »

People are slow to change and there are vested interests that resist change. There's a 200KM range affordable car on the market that charges at a faster rate than what went before it.
Now, what percentage of the driving public needs greater range than that...and if they do, how often?

Purely from a selfish point of view, I'm delighted if people like yourself are of the belief that EV's have not come of age. It means incentives stay in place - meaning I keep on saving €160/month on fuel alone (that's before consideration of those expensive services that were ending up as >€500/year for me on diesel).



Really? Whereas petrol heads are what exactly? I don't mind not being a sheep. I'll never drive a diesel/petrol ever again. Are 25% of the car buying public in Norway also 'a strange bunch'?



The point he's making is that there's damn all maintenance. Where will you buy your car - you can buy off a main dealer or an indy - you can do so in Ireland or the UK. However, Tesla intend to disrupt this model - as they are doing in the U.S. already.

Check through this section and see what sort of major surgery has been necessary thus far for EV drivers....very little. Yes, of course at this point in time, if you are unlucky enough to have something major go wrong outside of warranty, then you're stuck with a main dealer (can also happen with ICE anyway). As regards regular servicing, what is there to do? Brake fluid? Anyone can do that. Pollen filter, ditto. Break discs/pads (aside from the fact that they will last 2x the time than with a diesel/petrol due to regen) - can't an indy do that? What else is there?


Independents were/are getting squeezed with the way manufacturers are designing in complexity to shut them out - and force people back to the main dealers when there's an issue.
Furthermore, as EV development progresses, independents will pop up.

My posts seem to have touched a nerve with you.
I used work in the motor trade some years ago and had heard of the widely held opinion of Ev shoppers and drivers. Dont blame me basically. Its widespread.
If Evs do become the norm and there are only minor servicing needs then you can bet your cat on it that it will become a warranty issue if the vehicle isnt done in a main dealer.

I am aware of the business model Tesla are promoting by having no franchised dealerships but Hyundai, Ford etc are not Tesla.

Its actually 40 percent of new cars were Evs nor Norway last year .Norway has massive oil reserves and the revenues are used to fund such infrastructure. We live in Ireland remember a place that dosnt even have adequate healthcare, housing, public transport infrastructure etc etc

It will be a long long time before anything similar happens here. Our ridiculous road tax costs are helping keep the country going for one thing
Enjoy your low tax costs and maintenance savings. You will likely have them for a long time to come.