SF and Westminster

end of the road

astrofool wrote: »

They can burn effigies of me all they want, if they have a license for a bonfire, have at it, I also didn't question why you were posting on this thread.

The Northern Ireland problem is two sides unable to see beyond their own nose, getting more entrenched in insulting each other in more and more obnoxious ways, and neither side able to get over it. Move on, ignore them, and they'll burn themselves out, the Neanderthals within the DUP and SF will soon start disappearing and dying off.

it's only the DUP and it's staunch supporters who are intrenched and unwilling to move on.
sf and it's supporters are willing to move forward to build a better northern ireland for all dispite the treatment the catholic population received, and dispite the sectarianism and bigotry still going on from elements of the unionist community. they know and believe it is the right thing to do, as a modernised forward thinking progressive northern ireland is a better northern ireland.
as the british government are now in bed with the DUP, and direct rule from westminster is a very high possibility, northern ireland is at huge risk of sliding backwards, as the DUP will be ruling the territory via it's coalition of chaos with the tories, who will once again be aiding and abeting rather then being impartial in relation to northern ireland like it is supposed to be.
foster needs to be pushed out and the power sharing needs to get back up and running. the DUP cannot be left to be fully in charge.

astrofool

So the answer is for both sides to be allowed be pr!cks to each other at the same scale? Got it.

If SF is not forming government over the Irish Language Act, then they haven't moved on. It's stupid petty escalation on both sides, and we'll be sitting here in the same situation in decades time unless one side manages to get over themselves and rise above it.

By making Foster an issue, it just made the DUP stand behind her even more, because that's what both sides are doing to each other, finding little petty things and trying to stick it in the eye of the other side.

For Reals

astrofool wrote: »

So the answer is for both sides to be allowed be pr!cks to each other at the same scale? Got it.

If SF is not forming government over the Irish Language Act, then they haven't moved on. It's stupid petty escalation on both sides, and we'll be sitting here in the same situation in decades time unless one side manages to get over themselves and rise above it.

By making Foster an issue, it just made the DUP stand behind her even more, because that's what both sides are doing to each other, finding little petty things and trying to stick it in the eye of the other side.

It's not just about language. It's also about equality for same sex couples and other things. The idea any party should, 'just move on' from their politics defeats the purpose of being involved in politics.
'By making Foster an issue'; it's the job of all public representatives to call out anything untoward. Of course they could ignore their politics and the behaviour of Foster in the interest of the greater good, regardless of how much of a bigoted shambles it ends up being?

FrancieBrady

astrofool wrote: »

So the answer is for both sides to be allowed be pr!cks to each other at the same scale? Got it.

Yet another who cannot back up 'they are all the same' dirge and lie.

If SF is not forming government over the Irish Language Act, then they haven't moved on. It's stupid petty escalation on both sides, and we'll be sitting here in the same situation in decades time unless one side manages to get over themselves and rise above it.

By making Foster an issue, it just made the DUP stand behind her even more, because that's what both sides are doing to each other, finding little petty things and trying to stick it in the eye of the other side.

Like I said earlier, you don't get to decide what are petty issues.
The yearly routine expressions of cultural supremacy that is the 'Orangefest' you would not tolerate in Clontarf. But you expect nationalists to concur with your assessment that these are trivial things.

One side indeed needs to move here, and give the rights that every other citizen, including your good self, has on these islands.

Nationalists have stayed in this executive since the GFA and the time has come for it to be fully implemented. Perish the thought that some southerners might for once support that.

Junkyard Tom

astrofool wrote: »

By making Foster an issue, it just made the DUP stand behind her even more, because that's what both sides are doing to each other, finding little petty things and trying to stick it in the eye of the other side.

Foster and the DUP made Foster an issue. All the political parties wanted her to stand aside while an enquiry was held to establish if she was complicit in corruption of the £500m RHI scheme.

Also, the Scots and Welsh have language acts yet the DUP see fit to block a Irish langauge act? The DUP would rather sneer at Irish language speakers such is their hatred of all aspects of Irish culture/heritage.

One side is not as bad as the other.

Red_Wake

astrofool wrote: »

They can burn effigies of me all they want, if they have a license for a bonfire, have at it, I also didn't question why you were posting on this thread.

The Northern Ireland problem is two sides unable to see beyond their own nose, getting more entrenched in insulting each other in more and more obnoxious ways, and neither side able to get over it.  Move on, ignore them, and they'll burn themselves out, the Neanderthals within the DUP and SF will soon start disappearing and dying off.

Both parties are in rude health with voters, as much as I'd like it not to be.

If anything, NI has gotten more extreme politically in the last 10-15 years [from the moderates of Trimble and Hume to the extremists of DUP and SF], and I expect it will continue on this trajectory until violence erupts once again.

FrancieBrady

Red_Wake wrote: »

Both parties are in rude health with voters, as much as I'd like it not to be.

If anything, NI has gotten more extreme politically in the last 10-15 years [from the moderates of Trimble and Hume to the extremists of DUP and SF], and I expect it will continue on this trajectory until violence erupts once again.

Again, please demonstrate with links and sources how SF, who advocate for the full range of rights available to you and I and everyone else in Ireland and the UK, can be called an 'extreme' of anything.

It is a tired, lazy old descriptor.

Mal-Adjusted

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Also, the Scots and Welsh have language acts yet the DUP see fit to block a Irish langauge act? The DUP would rather sneer at Irish language speakers

Sorry for being a bit thick, but i don't get it.

FrancieBrady

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I'd say you'll be waiting a while for a straight answer to the above

I'd say you might be right.

Irishweather

end of the road wrote: »

it's only the DUP and it's staunch supporters who are intrenched and unwilling to move on.
sf and it's supporters are willing to move forward to build a better northern ireland for all dispite the treatment the catholic population received, and dispite the sectarianism and bigotry still going on from elements of the unionist community. they know and believe it is the right thing to do, as a modernised forward thinking progressive northern ireland is a better northern ireland.
as the british government are now in bed with the DUP, and direct rule from westminster is a very high possibility, northern ireland is at huge risk of sliding backwards, as the DUP will be ruling the territory via it's coalition of chaos with the tories, who will once again be aiding and abeting rather then being impartial in relation to northern ireland like it is supposed to be.
foster needs to be pushed out and the power sharing needs to get back up and running. the DUP cannot be left to be fully in charge.

SF don't want to build a better Northern Ireland. Their goal is for the gradual receeding of all British influence in Northern Ireland towards a United Ireland.

Why do you think they are being so stubborn?

Irishweather

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Foster and the DUP made Foster an issue. All the political parties wanted her to stand aside while an enquiry was held to establish if she was complicit in corruption of the £500m RHI scheme.

Also, the Scots and Welsh have language acts yet the DUP see fit to block a Irish langauge act? The DUP would rather sneer at Irish language speakers such is their hatred of all aspects of Irish culture/heritage.

One side is not as bad as the other.

So, IRA/SF are more morally sound than the DUP? Right...

For Reals

Irishweather wrote: »

SF don't want to build a better Northern Ireland. Their goal is for the gradual receeding of all British influence in Northern Ireland towards a United Ireland.

Why do you think they are being so stubborn?

I personally would class that as a better Ireland. By stubborn you mean sticking to goals? As are the DUP, to an extent aside from the ones they change to marry themselves to May and ones to counter SF for spite, (see Ulster Scots).

Junkyard Tom

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Sorry for being a bit thick, but i don't get it.

What do you not get exactly?

Irishweather wrote: »

So, IRA/SF are more morally sound than the DUP? Right...

SF have made an effort to leave behind the past - the DUP/UDA are doing their damndest to keep the north in the 17th Century.

FrancieBrady

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I'd say you'll be waiting a while for a straight answer to the above

I drove past one of these this morning, and I remembered your post.

Still waiting for examples of the nationalist community or political parties engaging in this level of DUP (and Tory party) supported pure unadulterated hate. This is going on all over the north, with not a single word of condemnation or any real effort to stamp it out once and for all emanating from the DUP (and Tories) or the OO.

A Little Pony

end of the road wrote: »

astrofool wrote: »

They can burn effigies of me all they want, if they have a license for a bonfire, have at it, I also didn't question why you were posting on this thread.

The Northern Ireland problem is two sides unable to see beyond their own nose, getting more entrenched in insulting each other in more and more obnoxious ways, and neither side able to get over it. Move on, ignore them, and they'll burn themselves out, the Neanderthals within the DUP and SF will soon start disappearing and dying off.

it's only the DUP and it's staunch supporters who are intrenched and unwilling to move on.
sf and it's supporters are willing to move forward to build a better northern ireland for all dispite the treatment the catholic population received, and dispite the sectarianism and bigotry still going on from elements of the unionist community. they know and believe it is the right thing to do, as a modernised forward thinking progressive northern ireland is a better northern ireland.
as the british government are now in bed with the DUP, and direct rule from westminster is a very high possibility, northern ireland is at huge risk of sliding backwards, as the DUP will be ruling the territory via it's coalition of chaos with the tories, who will once again be aiding and abeting rather then being impartial in relation to northern ireland like it is supposed to be.
foster needs to be pushed out and the power sharing needs to get back up and running. the DUP cannot be left to be fully in charge.

Sounds like a dream to me. Can't stand 'progressive' politics, think it is bollocks. We aren't a progressive people, so it doesn't come naturally to us to pretend to be even, never mind actually believe in that ideology.

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sounds like a dream to me. Can't stand 'progressive' politics, think it is bollocks. We aren't a progressive people, so it doesn't come naturally to us to pretend to be even, never mind actually believe in that ideology.

fine, but unless you want more potential trouble down the line, then supporting modernisation is your only option.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sounds like a dream to me. Can't stand 'progressive' politics, think it is bollocks. We aren't a progressive people, so it doesn't come naturally to us to pretend to be even, never mind actually believe in that ideology.

Politics,should always be progressive.
And there are 'some' non progressive people on this island who believe their religious fundamentalism and beliefs should be foisted on everyone.
And the Tories plainly believe that too.

The Golden Miller

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I drove past one of these this morning, and I remembered your post.

Still waiting for examples of the nationalist community or political parties engaging in this level of DUP (and Tory party) supported pure unadulterated hate. This is going on all over the north, with not a single word of condemnation or any real effort to stamp it out once and for all emanating from the DUP (and Tories) or the OO.

Bonfires alight and fire services are up to their necks trying to prevent them spreading to nearby houses. But it's kkkulture so it's OK. Burn the Irish flag and coffin effigies of Irish people and its grand, sure we know the southern media will whitewash the whole thing to keep people in ignorance so they can continue to propagate the whole "both sides" rhetoric anyway

FrancieBrady

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Bonfires alight and fire services are up to their necks trying to prevent them spreading to nearby houses. But it's kkkulture so it's OK. Burn the Irish flag and coffin effigies of Irish people and its grand, sure we know the southern media will whitewash the whole thing to keep people in ignorance so they can continue to propagate the whole "both sides" rhetoric anyway

Well, hopefully our southern media will not repeat the mistakes of the past and employ journalists who know what they are talking about and are not afraid to say it;

Andy Pollack wrote:

McGuinness accused First Minister Arlene Foster of “deep-seated arrogance” and the DUP of rejecting his attempts to reach out to unionists, of “shameful disrespect” to women, gay people and ethnic minorities, and “crude and crass bigotry” to Irish language speakers.

In a follow-up RTÉ interview, McGuinness said there were many people in the DUP who “hate anything to do with Irish nationalism and Irish republicanism.”

As somebody who began studying the DUP more than 30 years ago (in the course of researching a biography of the late Ian Paisley), I recognise the truth in all these charges. I had hoped that their antiquated prejudices would have begun to diminish as a realisation that they had to share their divided little society with their nationalist neighbours started to dawn on unionists in a new century.

It is disappointing that the deep and overlapping anti-Irish and anti-Catholic bigotry of so many DUP-supporting unionists appears to still play a significant role in Northern life and politics.

Inherently superior

Back in 1986, I wrote about the people who followed Paisley as follows: “They believed they were inherently superior to their Roman Catholic neighbours because of their religion. They were ‘born again’ Christians, living in the ‘light’ of pure Protestantism, free men who communed with God without the interference of priests or man-made rituals. Catholics, on the other hand, were benighted and ignorant souls who were enslaved by the ‘darkness’ of Roman superstition, the idolatry of the Mass, and the rule of the papal anti-christ.


“Such a view tallied perfectly with the superiority they felt anyway as the descendants of the people who had ‘civilised’ Ulster. Thus the underprivileged position of Northern Catholics was nothing to do with injustice: quite the opposite – it was living proof of God’s justice in rewarding those who followed the true religion.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/anti-catholic-bigotry-of-many-in-dup-still-significant-1.2982216?mode=amp

There has to be sustained focus on the core problem here before it will disappear in shame.

Chips Lovell

Hi everyone,
Please bear in mind that the topic of this thread is Sinn Fein's position on taking its seats in Westminster. The thread has gone way off topic. If you want to discuss other aspects of politics in Northern Ireland, please start a new thread.

Thank you.

Chips Lovell

I've moved the off-topic posts about the Stormant negotiations to a new thread

FrancieBrady

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I've moved the off-topic posts about the Stormant negotiations to a new thread

Stormont?