Neighbour's dog and its owners

Molly1961

I am at wits' end with my neighbours and their male St. Bernard x dog. We live in a rural area in Tipperary since 1991 with an acre of land. We got new neighbours that moved in a few years ago. We currently have two dogs, one GSD and a JRT/Border Terrier x, both spayed. I do not allow my dogs to be unaccompanied in the garden and always clean up immediately after them. They only ever leave the property in the car, we don't walk them on the road, instead walk them near or in a forest by driving there.

We have 2 daughters, one 10 year old and an older daughter. I am the main carer for the dogs, we would never allow our youngest to be in charge of the dogs. They are both well socialised and sweet dogs. I still go regularly to dog training with my GSD.

The neighbours got their St. Bernard x dog sometime in November 2015. It started to appear on our property sometime before May 2016, always to foul in our garden. I texted the owner on a number of occasions and always got the reply that it was not possible, that the dog was sitting next to him in the conservatory. I told him that the dog could clearly be seen on CCTV. By August 2016, the dog would come in our garden to defecate on a daily, sometimes twice daily basis. The dog was not ever walked, the male owner at the time could not walk due to an injury to his leg. We keep our gates closed, but he literally fights his way through our hedging.

The male dog owner had recently setup a company as a property auctioneer, so I thought I help them with setting up their website in order to be able to talk to them again about the problem. Another promise of installing an electric fence was made, they were going to buy it the next day. Needless to say that did not happen. Eventually, I had to get the Gardai involved, who contacted him. He is well known to them as he was up in court for alleged assault of another neighbour. My solicitor sent a letter. The dog warden has been involved. All to no avail.

The problem has spiraled out of control. The dog warden recently placed a dog trap, but miraculously the dog was not seen for the entire period, until the trap was taken away. The owners are well aware where the dog exits out of their property, in the last few days the owner is on the road or near where the dog exits, but making no effort to stop him getting out. The neighbours now treat this as a game. As the Garda said, he has moved on from the other neighbour and has found another neighbour to target (all neighbours have fallen out with him).

He is clearly aware of his "rights" or how far he can push us, as he offers free Landlord and Tenant Clinics in the area.

Anyone, who can come up with some innovative suggestions, I would welcome it!

Thanks for reading.

pilly

I'm confused. How has the problem spiralled? Am I getting it right in that the dog is not doing any harm apart from going to the toilet? I know it's a nuisance but I'm just wondering why you think things have spiralled.

Personally I think it's an over-reaction if that's all the dog is doing.

Afollower

When the neighbour's dog poos in your garden, pick the poo up in a shovel and put it over the fence.

tk123

Build a fence/wall so the dog can't get in? Not an idea situation as you'll be out of pocket but both dog and neighbour will be out of your hair then at least and you won't have to deal with him, the dog or the poo!

Molly1961

Pilly, I am responsible and clean up after my dogs. I don't need to clean up after someone elses pony sized dog. At this point it is more than a nuisance, the owner deliberately lets the dog out knowing it goes into our garden to defecate. Every single time ... Not harmless at all at this point.

Afollower, yes I have returned the poo many times. At some stage I asked the owner to come and clear it up himself. He did it 3 times, then was fed up with it and told me not to contact or harass them.

Molly1961

tk123, our garden is totally surrounded with dense hedging, which is now destroyed by the dog. Our properties are not adjoined, they are separated by a lane. Barricading it with blackthorn bushes and a pellet does not work. He just pushes through it. I have already paid a solicitor. I spend time recording and taking down footage, as per the Gardai's instruction for evidence. My husband is hoping to setup an electric fence, but again that costs money.

.......

This post has been deleted.

njs030

Build a proper fence or wall to enclose your garden so the dog can't get in.
Bushes aren't a proper fence.
If the solicitor can't take it anywhere legally there isn't an awful lot more you can do other than enclose your property to make sure he doesn't come in.

Installing electric fencing around a garden is a bizarre idea tbh and could leave you open to liability issues. I'd be very concerned about someone deliberately setting up a trap to hurt an pet.
The owner is the problem not the dog and he doesn't deserve to be electrocuted for a bit of poo.

Molly1961

notjustsweet, I don't think I want to spend money to fence an entire acre of a garden for my neighbours' dog. I shouldn't have to either, I don't let my dogs out of my property to roam about and be a nuisance to other people. We, the Gardai and the Dog Warden cannot reason with them. I don't think the electric fence is a bizarre idea, I was hoping to get some other ideas that may have been tried and tested. I understand it is not the dog's fault, but the owners are more than happy to let this situation continue on. I would be worried having my dogs on someone elses property, not knowing if weedkiller, slug bait or other dangerous things are out there that could harm my dog.

Molly1961

....., no the dog's main purpose is to mark the entire area then defecate and disappear. When I tried to approach it in the past, it looks menacing, with his body stiffening and tail straight up into the air. I don't like my 10 year old playing in the garden on her own, not knowing what he could do. I wish there would be a way I could catch it, so does the dog warden at this point.

kylith

Inform neighbour of your intention to start farming.
Tell neighbour that any dogs not owned by you that you see on your land will be shot on sight to protect your livestock.

That's probably going a bit far...

Have you ever been in a situation where the dog's been in the garden when you've been there? Could you approach it? Could you put traps down again without the neighbour's knowledge? If so I'd lean towards taking the dog to the pound. Let him collect it from there and pay the release fee. Do that every time the dog shows up in your property.

In the meantime don't just return to dog's poo to him: Fling it over the boundary with a shovel like you're going for the world record in shít flinging.

Diemos

notjustsweet wrote: »

Build a proper fence or wall to enclose your garden so the dog can't get in.
Bushes aren't a proper fence.

The owner is the problem not the dog and he doesn't deserve to be electrocuted for a bit of poo.

Well the dog would be shocked, saying he owuld be electrocuted makes it sound like it would kill the dog, this is not the case.

As for the wall, they are not cheap, why should the OP be out of pocket because of a careless owner?

Molly1961

Kylith, you make me laugh ... Yes, whenever I happen to see the dog and I go out to the garden to chase it, it disappears after it does its routine with tail up, looking to challenge me. I'm afraid to go near it, I have to admit. Chances of catching him are very slim unless someone can offer a solution. What kind of a trap where you thinking of ;-)

I did return the poo on a number of occasions after texting him to say I had returned lost property of the dog. He then put up a sign with a big arrow to say that I should deposit lost property of <dog's name> here. Even the Gardai were shaking their heads. Sadly it is not the only nuisance he creates, loves to put up music so loud in his garage (directly across from our house), so we can hear it through closed windows and doors.

The dog warden is hoping to get the dog and has been very helpful within the boundaries of the law (the law is an ass) and hoping they won't bother to pay the release fee.

I love Sean nos

kylith wrote: »

Inform neighbour of your intention to start farming.
Tell neighbour that any dogs not owned by you that you see on your land will be shot on sight to protect your livestock.

I was going to suggest something similar. If there was a local farmer who had a spare sheep to graze, then deal with the dog that's worrying the sheep.

harr

notjustsweet wrote: »

Build a proper fence or wall to enclose your garden so the dog can't get in.
Bushes aren't a proper fence.
If the solicitor can't take it anywhere legally there isn't an awful lot more you can do other than enclose your property to make sure he doesn't come in.

Installing electric fencing around a garden is a bizarre idea tbh and could leave you open to liability issues. I'd be very concerned about someone deliberately setting up a trap to hurt an pet.
The owner is the problem not the dog and he doesn't deserve to be electrocuted for a bit of poo.

Electric fence not that uncommon in rural areas even for residential property, my inlaws had problems with live stock destroying gardens and lawns..the cattle from an elderly neighbours farm would break through weekly...electric fence sorted it out....a few bolts from the fence and the dog might think twice the next time...
I don't think the op is over reacting at all and is perfectly entitled to a clean garden...get footage of the dog breaking through the fence and ****ing on the lawn and then bring him to small claims court for getting fence repaired and keep doing that as long as the dog keeps damaging your property.

Molly1961

Correct Diemos, electric fence will have the same purpose as the reason farmers are using it to keep their animals in. Last time I checked they don't use it to kill their animals. I just want to keep the dog out. Maybe a good jolt might change its mind of our garden being the ideal loo location!

Minderbinder

Set up a motion activated sprinkler system. 

https://www.amazon.com/Orbit-62100-Enforcer-Activated-Sprinkler/dp/B009F1R0GC

Molly1961

Borrowing some sheep may not be a bad idea! Especially since 22 sheep locally were cruelly killed or half-killed by unknown dogs a few months ago.

ganmo

You've a few options
If the dog is approcable catch him the next time he's in bring him into the house and call the warden. Your neighbour will have to pay a fine to get him back.

Put up a good fence.

Get some anti thief paint that'll stick to the dogs hair

Get some sheep in, print out the control of dogs act, highlight the section about worrying livestock and put it through his letterbox.

Option 1 or 2 are the best I'd say

Molly1961

ganmo, dog not approachable. Fence too costly. Anti-thief paint, is it legal?? Love the control of dogs act with sheep.

ganmo

http://www.paintshop.ie/Anti-Vandal-System/Anti-Intruder-Paint.aspx

I love Sean nos

kylith wrote: »

In the meantime don't just return to dog's poo to him: Fling it over the boundary with a shovel like you're going for the world record in shít flinging.

Fling it at the house. At the door. At the windows. On the roof.

kylith

Molly1961 wrote: »

ganmo, dog not approachable. Fence too costly. Anti-thief paint, is it legal?? Love the control of dogs act with sheep.

Yep. I think it's called anti-climb paint.

Minderbinder

Bringing in a load of ****ting sheep to stop a ****ting dog seems absurd to me, especially as you seem concerned mostly about picking up ****.

kylith

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Fling it at the house. At the door. At the windows. On the roof.

Bonus points for the roof!

Was going to say shame it'd be a no-go since they're on the other side of a road, but a little training should sort out any problems with range.

kylith

Minderbinder wrote: »

Bringing in a load of ****ting sheep to stop a ****ting dog seems absurd to me, especially as you seem concerned mostly about picking up ****.

At least the sheep poo is less smelly, less dangerous, and good for the garden.

Mooooo

A few plastic fencing posts with a few hooks at different levels a roll of poly wire or light metal wire and a portable battery fencer, put a few strands up that are close enough together that he can't get thru without touching it and he won't come thru it €100 in local coop and 30mins should have it done. If you or husband has farmer neighbour you're friendly with could even borrow it. Generally people who refuse to control the dogs the only solution is take the dog to the pound or in the case of worrying livestock shooting it

ganmo

Minderbinder wrote: »

Bringing in a load of ****ting sheep to stop a ****ting dog seems absurd to me, especially as you seem concerned mostly about picking up ****.

The sheep **** would be a temporary problem for a permanent solution.

Minderbinder

kylith wrote: »

Minderbinder wrote: »

Bringing in a load of ****ting sheep to stop a ****ting dog seems absurd to me, especially as you seem concerned mostly about picking up ****.

At least the sheep poo is less smelly, less dangerous, and good for the garden.

you really know your s**t

Jayop

It's an absolute dose picking up someone else's dog's ****e from your garden. I live in an estate, I clean up after my dogs who aren't allowed to run wild, yet I have to pick up someone else's dogs crap a couple of times a week from my front garden too.

I can never understand why in these threads people seem only too happy to ignore the obvious nuisance that this could cause, especially in an enclosed garden with a very large dog they have said they are afraid of. She won't leave her kids alone with her own dogs but this giant is OK wandering around her garden.

pilly

I love Sean nos wrote:

I was going to suggest something similar. If there was a local farmer who had a spare sheep to graze, then deal with the dog that's worrying the sheep.

So shoot the dog because he has an irresponsible owner. I can't believe people on here.

susign

pilly wrote:

Personally I think it's an over-reaction if that's all the dog is doing.

pilly wrote:

I'm confused. How has the problem spiralled? Am I getting it right in that the dog is not doing any harm apart from going to the toilet? I know it's a nuisance but I'm just wondering why you think things have spiralled.

No over re-action by an means, that statement is ignorant to the law. I was in the horrible situation if have to shoot two stray dogs on my land €2700 worth of damage caused with sheep dead, vetinary bills and still working at getting the wounded sheep to back into condition for sale. The owner was caught via text alert (came to collect stray dogs not knowing one of them was dead) they had to foot the bill. The second dog had to be put down. Every owner believes their own dog wouldn't attack animals. After the horrific mess I was put in, farmers in our area shoot the dogs as no point arguing with owners

Minderbinder

ganmo wrote: »

Minderbinder wrote: »

Bringing in a load of ****ting sheep to stop a ****ting dog seems absurd to me, especially as you seem concerned mostly about picking up ****.

The sheep **** would be a temporary problem for a permanent solution.

So how does it work exactly? Would you need to set up a business or do some paperwork to declare this as farm land?Would you not need to put in a proper fence to keep livestock, especially as this neighbour will be looking for things to complain about.
After you post the act through the letterbox, what happens next? Do you have to make a log of evidence or is it just that once the dog comes into the garden and they take away the dog to be destroyed? 
Which farmer is going to let you use their sheep as bait?

Jayop

pilly wrote: »

So shoot the dog because he has an irresponsible owner. I can't believe people on here.

No one suggested shooting the dog. They said tell the owner you will though in the hope they do the right thing.

pilly

Minderbinder wrote:

Set up a motion activated sprinkler system.

Or if that's too expensive could you try spraying him with a hose a few times? That might stop him coming back.

Marymidlands

Is the dog from dangerous breeds and therefore would need muzzle. If he doesn't have on warden should be able to take.

Perhaps poo left outside door of house etc where it would get on shoes etc. would also be idea.

How about a campaign on social media being shown to customers. If affecting his business he might stop. Local IFA leader had dog bothering my poultry. I complained repeatedly and was laughed at. He didn't laugh when I attended the local IFA meeting and informed everyone of damage his dig had done. I never saw his dog again.

Can understand your frustration particularly when he seems aggressive. You don't want kids playing in ****e etc or worse being bitten.

Heard of case where neighbor brought neighbour to court over barking dogs and he won. Man had to keep indoors or get rid. Judge would find on your side as he's been in court before.

pilly

Jayop wrote:

It's an absolute dose picking up someone else's dog's ****e from your garden. I live in an estate, I clean up after my dogs who aren't allowed to run wild, yet I have to pick up someone else's dogs crap a couple of times a week from my front garden too.

I live in a rural area with numerous dogs who wander around but I've fences and gates to stop them coming in.

If you want your property private and protected it's down to you to build these things.

I have a dog and only walk her on a lead and bring bags but occassionally there may be a **** outside my gate sometimes at worse. I wait for it to dry up and then sweep it up, no biggie.

My overall point is if you dont want unauthorised people on your property then you protect it.

susign

tk123 wrote:

Build a fence/wall so the dog can't get in? Not an idea situation as you'll be out of pocket but both dog and neighbour will be out of your hair then at least and you won't have to deal with him, the dog or the poo!

tk123 wrote:

Build a fence/wall so the dog can't get in? Not an idea situation as you'll be out of pocket but both dog and neighbour will be out of your hair then at least and you won't have to deal with him, the dog or the poo!

tk123 wrote:

Build a fence/wall so the dog can't get in? Not an idea situation as you'll be out of pocket but both dog and neighbour will be out of your hair then at least and you won't have to deal with him, the dog or the poo!

Molly1961 wrote:

notjustsweet, I don't think I want to spend money to fence an entire acre of a garden for my neighbours' dog. I shouldn't have to either, I don't let my dogs out of my property to roam about and be a nuisance to other people. We, the Gardai and the Dog Warden cannot reason with them. I don't think the electric fence is a bizarre idea, I was hoping to get some other ideas that may have been tried and tested. I understand it is not the dog's fault, but the owners are more than happy to let this situation continue on. I would be worried having my dogs on someone elses property, not knowing if weedkiller, slug bait or other dangerous things are out there that could harm my dog.

Molly1961 wrote:

notjustsweet, I don't think I want to spend money to fence an entire acre of a garden for my neighbours' dog. I shouldn't have to either, I don't let my dogs out of my property to roam about and be a nuisance to other people. We, the Gardai and the Dog Warden cannot reason with them. I don't think the electric fence is a bizarre idea, I was hoping to get some other ideas that may have been tried and tested. I understand it is not the dog's fault, but the owners are more than happy to let this situation continue on. I would be worried having my dogs on someone elses property, not knowing if weedkiller, slug bait or other dangerous things are out there that could harm my dog.

It may seem harsh but contact nearest farmer with shot gun. Speaking from experience all stray dogs are dangerous once they get together. They attack sheep for sport, straying once is fine, straying repeatedly means the most cost effective option is shooting. It saves suffering of sheep (even if they're not yours, the cruelty to sheep is tough to see). I contacted the guardy after finding the damage in my field, guardi told me shoot to kill. That's only leagal if they are at risk of causing or have caused damage on your property though.

Jayop

pilly wrote: »

I live in a rural area with numerous dogs who wander around but I've fences and gates to stop them coming in.

If you want your property private and protected it's down to you to build these things.

I have a dog and only walk her on a lead and bring bags but occassionally there may be a **** outside my gate sometimes at worse. I wait for it to dry up and then sweep it up, no biggie.

My overall point is if you dont want unauthorised people on your property then you protect it.

sometimes outside your gate is different from every day and a dog that seems to be encouraged to do it on their property.

The owner shouldn't be letting their dog run wild. That should be your starting point rather than having a go at the victim.

njs030

Diemos wrote: »

Well the dog would be shocked, saying he owuld be electrocuted makes it sound like it would kill the dog, this is not the case.

An electric shock is being electrocuted. I didn't say or imply the dog would be killed, I'm not sure why you decided to say I did!


Taking steps to deliberately cause pain to an animal is cruel, the owner is to blame and not the dog.

Tbh now people are recommending op shoots the dog or gets a farmer to do so I'm out of this thread as its making me feel quite sick.

susign

Minderbinder wrote:

So how does it work exactly? Would you need to set up a business or do some paperwork to declare this as farm land?Would you not need to put in a proper fence to keep livestock, especially as this neighbour will be looking for things to complain about. After you post the act through the letterbox, what happens next? Do you have to make a log of evidence or is it just that once the dog comes into the garden and they take away the dog to be destroyed? Which farmer is going to let you use their sheep as bait?

We are talk about dogs not humans, simple phone call to guards as to what happened and guards handle the rest. I have been Through it recently and it was handled professionally. As regarding the fence, farmer fences his own animals in, doesn't fence dogs out. Once they cross farmers own land farmer is in his own right once he is licensed for the gun. It's not pleasant putting a dog down but we need to be responsible for own animals

I love Sean nos

kylith wrote: »

Bonus points for the roof!

Was going to say shame it'd be a no-go since they're on the other side of a road, but a little training should sort out any problems with range.

Build a trebuchet as a hobby exercise. You'll have the range sorted in no time.

While you're building that, put the occasional dog turd in an envelope, address it to them and put it in the post. No stamp needed.

susign

notjustsweet wrote:

Tbh now people are recommending op shoots the dog or gets a farmer to do so I'm out of this thread as its making me feel quite sick.

It disgusting I know, but I was literally sick with the sight if my lambs with heads hanging off and fleased mother's trying to lick them clean also. Sorry for the graphics here, but you need to see it from both sides. The owner wasnt going to cover my costs only for the guards had the dead dogbto bring to his house

Dial Hard

Marymidlands wrote:

Is the dog from dangerous breeds and therefore would need muzzle. If he doesn't have on warden should be able to take.

There's no such thing as "dangerous breeds" in Ireland, it's a restricted breeds list. And no, St. Bernards aren't on it.

Minderbinder

susign wrote: »

Minderbinder wrote:

So how does it work exactly? Would you need to set up a business or do some paperwork to declare this as farm land?Would you not need to put in a proper fence to keep livestock, especially as this neighbour will be looking for things to complain about. After you post the act through the letterbox, what happens next? Do you have to make a log of evidence or is it just that once the dog comes into the garden and they take away the dog to be destroyed? Which farmer is going to let you use their sheep as bait?

We are talk about dogs not humans, simple phone call to guards as to what happened and guards handle the rest. I have been Through it recently and it was handled professionally. As regarding the fence, farmer fences his own animals in, doesn't fence dogs out. Once they cross farmers own land farmer is in his own right once he is licensed for the gun. It's not pleasant putting a dog down but we need to be responsible for own animals

So you are a sheep farmer, right?
Would you lend your sheep to the OP to be used as bait?

susign

Dial Hard wrote:

There's no such thing as "dangerous breeds" in Ireland, it's a restricted breeds list. And no, St. Bernards aren't on it.

Most breeds are safe as far as im aware of, the problems usually starts when a stray dog finds another stray -they get playfull and chase animals, sheep being easier targets than rabbits unfortunately. Some dog owners don't think of the risks when dogs stray. My neighbours are very good. The dogs I confronted travelled over 2 miles

susign

Minderbinder wrote:

So you are a sheep farmer, right? Would you lend your sheep to the OP to be used as bait?

Although your above post is more of a smart statement rather than a question I will respond. No I surly woul not, the dog only needs to be on the land, no farmer ever got in trouble for that. Shooting is a last resort. If the owner wont have the decency to accept responsibility there's no way I would have sympathy if he doesn't care. I was only ever in the unfortunate situation to have to do it once, it's not a nice thing by any means

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I love Sean nos wrote: »

I was going to suggest something similar. If there was a local farmer who had a spare sheep to graze, then deal with the dog that's worrying the sheep.

Implying the dog should be shot is not a solution. It's incredibly dumb. By all means, if you want issues with the law, follow this advice.

Jayop wrote: »

especially in an enclosed garden

It's obviously not very enclosed, is it?

Jayop wrote: »

No one suggested shooting the dog. They said tell the owner you will though in the hope they do the right thing.

Which would only compound the problem.

Minderbinder wrote: »

So you are a sheep farmer, right?
Would you lend your sheep to the OP to be used as bait?

This idea is idiotic.

Molly1961 wrote: »

ganmo, dog not approachable. Fence too costly. Anti-thief paint, is it legal?? Love the control of dogs act with sheep.

You have done all you can without spending money or altering your garden. Continue returning the poo and continue making complaints about the roaming dog, but if you are not getting anywhere with your neighbor, your only option is to splash out on some cash and install a fence or other deterrent.

Molly1961

Jayop, thanks for that. I sometimes wonder whether those people responding that it is all harmless and not really a nuisance let their dogs do its business in other people's gardens/property. As the dog warden said, they love the dog, but not the responsibility that comes with it. The care for my dogs, walking, feeding, cleaning up, etc. etc. takes up a lot of my time and I was well aware of it before I got them. The fact that my neighbour had a wonky leg (and brain) at the time they got their puppy that has now grown into pony size says it all!

Frankie Lee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6MyZJQZzwI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQEIO3Kxvak

In all seriousness though fling it back with a shovel.

Minderbinder

susign wrote: »

Minderbinder wrote:

So you are a sheep farmer, right? Would you lend your sheep to the OP to be used as bait?

Although your above post is more of a smart statement rather than a question I will respond. No I surly woul not, the dog only needs to be on the land, no farmer ever got in trouble for that. Shooting is a last resort. If the owner wont have the decency to accept responsibility there's no way I would have sympathy if he doesn't care. I was only ever in the unfortunate situation to have to do it once, it's not a nice thing by any means

I'm just asking questions. I'm not trying to be smart at all. I just don't think any farmer in their right mind would lend sheep to the OP to be used as bait. We already know these neighbours are unreasonable and are 'playing a game' as the OP put it.
I haven't said anything about farmers' rights. If a dog is attacking your sheep I'm 100% behind you, shoot the f**ker. 
But mainly I'm discussing the feasibility of the OP borrowing some sheep and using this Act, which I think is a ridiculous idea.